UK SAR to be totally privatised

[stiz]

i'm off to live on the moon, this countrys being driven by a complete bunch of uft.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=5158632&c=air;%20policy;%20budget&s=TOP

[kilo delta]

Same thing happened in Ireland a few years ago...SAR is now handled by a private company.

[stiz]

hows that working out??


note - prolly shoulda taken a few mins out before posting the above .. was gonna join the RAF and go the SAR route, so was pretty annoyed to find the thing i'd be getting ready for was getting removed!

[kilo delta]

It's worked very well,tbh. The Air Corps helo fleet have been re-allocated to other duties. The S-61N are to be replaced next year with the S-92.

[Roadburner440]

I couldn't imagine SAR being allocated to the private sector. Granted at my work that is our secondary job (primary is antisub/surface warfare), but as long as they are qualified I really don't see any reason for it not to be private. I think the guidelines a private company would need to follow though would allow so of the more dangerous rescues to not go through though. Although could again be wrong since they will not be restricted to military policy, and the individual may just be able to decide they want to risk it all to go for the person they are trying to save. Going to have to follow this one. I know in Jacksonville the people pray that we or one of the other helicopter squadrons get to them before Life Flight since we fly them to the hospital for free, and the Life Flight I think is $8000 or so... Would be curious to see the bill for a SAR mission after the helicopter cleaning, post SAR conditional inspections, and everything else.

[stiz]

thats one of the major worryes over here, that they'll charge for a previosly free service. I can see why they charge they charge for it, after all they have to get the money somehow, but i dont like it. Now if they did charge, a better way would be "was if your fault?" so if some numpty walked up a mountin in the middle of winter in trainers, jeans and a coat, then they should pay for it. However if its a genuine emergency (like a flood or summing) then you wont be charged.

Also which rules are civi SARs under?? are they under civil air authority which will have limits on weather etc, or, being SAR, are they under something more the like the military where if the weathers bad, its up to the pilot if they want to risk it or not??

Still either way, gonna miss the bright yella seakings :crybaby:

[Bone]

The reality in the US is that the cost of military and police SAR sorties have already started being billed to the person(s) rescued.

[Wing_Z]

Of course national SAR is only "free" insofar as the taxpayers are chipping in.

Every time an 8-year-old wants to be the youngest to cross the Southern Ocean on a biscuit, using only a teaspoon as propulsion, I am mindful of that fact.

[Roadburner440]

Well I am unsure about where you are at Bone, but I know here in my Wing they do not send bills to people... Our helicopters are constantly scanning the airwaves, and will usually divert from a training mission to go rescue people. The only hangup now is that with the water temp being so cold the SAR guys need to have their dry suits an stuff with them to go in the water. It does take a lot of fuel to fill up our H-60's though. The full bags of gas (some 592 gallons) cost us in the neighborhood of $2000 at the military rate with JP-5.. If we have to fill up at KJAX, KVQQ, or KCRG and fill up at the civilian rate that cost can easily escalate to double that with the cost of Jet-A. So I can only imagine how much it costs to pull of a SAR mission for a private firm. Cause I know after we go on a mission it triggers a couple conditional inspections, some special cleanings, and do a thorough rinse of the engines. Is always a good feeling when we manage to save someone life, regardless of what the circumstances may be. Although I think I can agree that if it was something they did being reckless maybe they should share a part of the burden. Granted I think no one sets out with the intent of needing to be rescued from somewhere, so for me that is kind of iffy ground.

[mfitch]

Around here there has been an increasing discussion of charging people who request emergency rescue. To many numskulls use rescue services as a get out of jail free card when they attempt what stiz describes in his post. Of course requesting aid means they bought a Spot locater or similar device and ask for help when they decide they don't like the situation, not because their life is unexpectedly in danger. These are of course very distinct cases.

Personally I don't understand jurisdictions. The Coast Guard does a great deal of work in SAR but the national guard also does SAR. The water/land distinction isn't quite the case either.

[Bone]

Well I am unsure about where you are at Bone, but I know here in my Wing they do not send bills to people... Our helicopters are constantly scanning the airwaves, and will usually divert from a training mission to go rescue people. The only hangup now is that with the water temp being so cold the SAR guys need to have their dry suits an stuff with them to go in the water. It does take a lot of fuel to fill up our H-60's though. The full bags of gas (some 592 gallons) cost us in the neighborhood of $2000 at the military rate with JP-5.. If we have to fill up at KJAX, KVQQ, or KCRG and fill up at the civilian rate that cost can easily escalate to double that with the cost of Jet-A. So I can only imagine how much it costs to pull of a SAR mission for a private firm. Cause I know after we go on a mission it triggers a couple conditional inspections, some special cleanings, and do a thorough rinse of the engines. Is always a good feeling when we manage to save someone life, regardless of what the circumstances may be. Although I think I can agree that if it was something they did being reckless maybe they should share a part of the burden. Granted I think no one sets out with the intent of needing to be rescued from somewhere, so for me that is kind of iffy ground.

I live in Atlanta. I'm not saying all SAR's are being billed out, but there have been a few of them billed out in the last few years. This has happened because the people they are rescuing made bad decisions. After the last Mount Hood lost hiker scenario, there was legislation put into place to allow billing the rescued.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1609378/posts

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/30/rescued-hiker-billed-25735/

[Roadburner440]

Yeah. Here normally the Coast Guard takes juristiction, and only calls us if stuff gets really bad. They had the HH-65 Dolphins here, and in Savannah.. If they have trouble locating someone though they ask for our assistance so we can bring in the FLIR camera's, and see what we can find with the sono equipment.. I can only imagine in Alaska all the calls they must get up there as that is a lot more desolate terrain in areas than Florida. Here we get the occasional drunk floating down the river in a home made contraption, or boaters that didn't realize they were taking on water until they got well out into the Atlantic and it was to late. Last week we had that couple that they couldn't find, and so all assetts were looking for their boat. Turned out they just extende their vacation without telling their family. Certaintly is a waste of resources, but rather be safe than sorry. I know I have put myself in some precarious situations. Luckily I didn't wind up needing help, but rest assured I know I would want it. lol I know if my jet ski wound up starting to sink my first phone call would be to my command to hopefully launch a bird out, and get me.