Alphasim/Virtavia AH-1W freeware (? / !)

[Bjoern]

Has this bird been freeware for long?

http://www.easyfly.co.nz/Freeware/index.php?dir=/USA



It is, of course, FSX native.

[kilo delta]

It's been available for a few weeks now. It was posted here at the time. :)

[heywooood]

well I missed it too - got it now though

thanks Bjoern

[Bjoern]

It's been available for a few weeks now. It was posted here at the time. :)

Seriously?

Jeez, I'm really getting old.


Brb, ordering a casket and organizing my funeral.

[krazycolin]

Has this bird been freeware for long?

http://www.easyfly.co.nz/Freeware/index.php?dir=/USA



It is, of course, FSX native.

It is not FSX native. I made the model. It was and is designed specifically for FS9. We will be releasing the actual high rez version of this (in conjunction with the nemeths) sometime in 2011.

[Kiwikat]

"RIFFКi MDLXMDLH @â "

Looks native to me. :wavey:

I guess our definitions of "native" differ. It is a FSX model, not a FS9 model.

[jeansy]

im 99% sure i have the paintkit for this when i bought this

or does it come with the download

[Quixoticish]

It is not FSX native. I made the model. It was and is designed specifically for FS9. We will be releasing the actual high rez version of this (in conjunction with the nemeths) sometime in 2011.

It is FSX native.

[Daube]

It is FSX native.
Indeed.

In fact, there are two distinct versions, one is in FS9 format, and the other one is in native FSX SP2 format, with self-shadowing.
The virtual cockpit is extremely limited, though...

[michael davies]

It is not FSX native. I made the model. It was and is designed specifically for FS9. We will be releasing the actual high rez version of this (in conjunction with the nemeths) sometime in 2011.

It is FSx native, I took that model and made it so :), what you may be refering to is FS9 poly crippled, in which case that is true.

The poly limit was reduced to get it into FS9, that same model was then made FSx compatable in the full sense of the criteria. IIRC it was one of the highest ever poly count models I squeezed through the FS9 compiler, around 72K I think, well over the accepted 62-66K limits normally imposed.

So to define:
Is it FSx native; YES
Was it a high poly model designed for FSx; NO

Best

Michael

[krazycolin]

and again, for me, the very fact it was "taken" into FSX (without my permission BTW) without it being designed for that purpose means it is NOT native. It's a portover.

THis is in my eyes only of course. As a modeler, the idea that something that was/is for FS9 being used and sold as a native FSX product is a bit ... well, unethical.

I will stop now before i get banned. Again.

[michael davies]

and again, for me, the very fact it was "taken" into FSX (without my permission BTW) without it being designed for that purpose means it is NOT native. It's a portover.

THis is in my eyes only of course. As a modeler, the idea that something that was/is for FS9 being used and sold as a native FSX product is a bit ... well, unethical.

I will stop now before i get banned. Again.

Don't blame me for putting it in FSx, I've enough issues with Alphasim myself with out getting more soil from other parties.

By definition, a port over is a model compiled for FS9 and used directly in FSx, that is the agreed terminology thrashed out in all the boards when this became an issue a few years back, to that extent it is not a port over.

A model compiled with modeldef.xml and not makemdl is FSx native, people can huff and puff and pout all they want but thats an undeniable fact. It makes no difference what the poly count is, do you think the native microlight is a port over ?, because under your criteria of poly limits then it is. Low poly limits do not automatically make a model FS9 native or a port over in FSx.

(generalization)
The bit that really ticks me off is people using port over and non native to often suit their own agendas (and thats not personal Colin), they are using words and terminology incorrectly to ...often...knock down a product or model.
(/generalization)

Once again, the agreed, accepted community phraseology for 'native' is, a model compiled with modeldef.xml

The Alphasim AH-1W fits that criteria, end of debate.

If you want to knock it for its crap poly count or what ever else, please feel free to do so, hell I'll even join in, I've plenty of axes to grind on that score!, but do not, now, or ever call it a port over or non FSx native.

Best

Michael

[krazycolin]

I'm going to stand by my point. You may feel that it is ok to call a model made expressly for FS9 a native FSX model, but I will not. My point here is first and foremost calling the model that I made for AS a "native FSX" product was and is misinformation. It's like taking a baby carriage, painting it red and selling it as a Ferrari. Not native.

The point about them not asking permission is an important point but one I am willing to forgo in the interests of maintaining the so-called peace.

(and it sure "sounds" personal...)

I will never condone the sale of something that was made for FS9 as a native FSX model. It may have all the bells and whistles, but in the end, it's still a model made for FS9. Nothing will change that.

I will stop if you will.

[michael davies]

I'm going to stand by my point. You may feel that it is ok to call a model made expressly for FS9 a native FSX model, but I will not. My point here is first and foremost calling the model that I made for AS a "native FSX" product was and is misinformation. It's like taking a baby carriage, painting it red and selling it as a Ferrari. Not native.

The point about them not asking permission is an important point but one I am willing to forgo in the interests of maintaining the so-called peace.

(and it sure "sounds" personal...)

I will never condone the sale of something that was made for FS9 as a native FSX model. It may have all the bells and whistles, but in the end, it's still a model made for FS9. Nothing will change that.

I will stop if you will.

Its personal in the context that you raised the original point, its not personal in that I'm not attacking you or criticizing your point of view.

I've no idea what agreement you had with Alphasim, but I suspect its the same as mine and worth the value of the paper its written on (being as everything is e mail then thats a paltry sum at best). It seems that some forms of theft are acceptable these days, torrents and p2p isn't, yet non payment is or reuse of models is?, go figure <SIGH>.

Colin, we may be at opposites of the table on this issue, but 'thankfully' we are at the same end and distinctly polarized from the main protagonist.

Sadly my support and defense of Alphasim ceased when it went under in Sept, if and when they decide to honor their debts I'll return to supporting models consumers purchased before that event.

Best

Michael

[vora]

IMHO you both, Colin and Michael, are right.
Using the FSX compiler on an FS9 model makes it "native" but it's still "poly-crippled", i.e. not all it can be.
To use a more appropriate example: If Ferrari brings out a Testarossa with 100 hp motor, it's still a Ferrari all right, but... :kilroy:

[kilo delta]

I'm playing devil's advocate here...but Bill (Lionheart) has developed a method of creating massively high poly models for FS9. If these are converted to MDLXMDL format are they "native"? :)

[krazycolin]

Trick question!!!

[michael davies]

I'm playing devil's advocate here...but Bill (Lionheart) has developed a method of creating massively high poly models for FS9. If these are converted to MDLXMDL format are they "native"? :)

Difficult to say, I'd say yes if they were compiled with modeldef.xml, I suspect Colin would say no as they are primarily designed for FS9.

For the record and clarity to the debate, its not just the poly count that cripples FS9 models, its makemdls vertex welding, any vertex closer than 3mm to its counterpart will be welded together when passed through makemdl, in modeldef.xml the weld script is null or for real purposes 1mm. This is very important in the VC model and adds that extra fidelity to gauges and cockpit fittings etc.

The materials and specular maps as well as bump maps are FSx only so fall outside of the debate really, you dont need them in FSx, but they are nice, you can compile a FSx model with out these and still fit the 'native' criteria (which ever point of view you subscribe too).

It basically comes down to how you interpritate the 'native' syntax, I choose to use what is commonly touted and thrashed out by the community in the early FSx days, but, a model designed 'specifically' for FSx may use different techniques, not necessary but can be used.

Best

Michael

[Daube]

Using the FSX compiler on an FS9 model makes it "native" but it's still "poly-crippled", i.e. not all it can be.
The fact that it's not as complex as it could doesn't change the fact that it's NATIVE.
No transparency issues, no props/rotors behind scenery or clouds, self shadows, etc.... ==> FSX native. The level of complexity is off-topic.

[kilo delta]

Thanks guys for the insights to the developers perspectives.:ernae: As a consumer I regard a native fsx aircraft as one that's been run through the FSX sdk. True FS9 ports are well and good until it comes to props and Helicopters where the cloud/prop/rotor issue rears it's ugly head.

[PRB]

Yep, I understand the distinction between native and non-native, and clearly the distinction is important to developers. And I've even been educated somewhat as to the definition of the term. However, as a user, the distinction is less important to me, and I don't really care what compiler the model was washed through. If the props don'tr hide behind the clouds, and I can see through the windows, it's an FSX plane.

[krazycolin]

FRom a purely end user pov, yes, it is a fsx native model. However that said from a dev pov, it's not... At least imho

[michael davies]

FRom a purely end user pov, yes, it is a fsx native model. However that said from a dev pov, it's not... At least imho

I'd go with that.

Compiled as FSx native but not developed for FSx.

Paul hit the nail home, consumers don't care how it was made, only that it meets the FSx criteria that they as end users see.

Best

Michael

[airattackimages]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I can't stand the way that thing flies.

:p

[michael davies]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I can't stand the way that thing flies.

:p

Well I did the FDE, so sorry its not working for you, its freeware, I don't support Alphasim any more, I don't do helo FDE work any more....you can work the rest out :).

Its a love / hate relationship, some like it, some hate it, I'm with you in the latter camp.

For the record the latest FDE cfgs were, FS9 V1.3 and FSx V1.6, if you don't have that then that may explain a few things, if you do, well then thats as good as your going to get from me I'm afraid.

Bearing the above in mind, I would keep away from all Alphasim helos as I did 90% of the FDEs, chances are you wont like how they fly as well, for warned is for armed.

Best

Michael

[DX-FMJ]

Hmm this one appears to be // ALPHA Cobra FSx V1.4

So, why didn't they release the newer one?

[DaveWG]

V1.4 was the latest as supplied by Alphasim.

When the Cobra was first released as freeware, Michael tweaked the FD in response to user comments firstly to V1.5 then later to V1.6. I think these were only available via the forum thread and the links are now dead.

[michael davies]

V1.4 was the latest as supplied by Alphasim.

When the Cobra was first released as freeware, Michael tweaked the FD in response to user comments firstly to V1.5 then later to V1.6. I think these were only available via the forum thread and the links are now dead.

The links are dead because I presumed that everyone who wanted them had them, not for any other reason, despite my ramblings above, I don't take my ball home after I've arrived, if I have an issue I just don't bring it in the first place :).

I can re post a link to V1.6 if people want or think it might help their sim experience ?.

I believe V1.4 was just a tweaked FS9 V1.3, ie before Acceleration arrived, Acceleration/SP2 made some changes to the core engine which helped helos a little I think, but a revised file was never asked for, nor provided. The issue was only discovered when the files went freeware, probably due to a larger audience, so V1.4 was revised to take into account these concerns as well as build in some things learned since V1.4. The changes are still not full FSx Helo files, so you do not need Acceleration to use them, ie the FDE format does not support multi engines, sling loads or other improvements brought in by Aces for the Merlin, but the performance should be the same for each rendition of FSx.

Best

Michael

[Bjoern]

No transparency issues, no props/rotors behind scenery or clouds, self shadows, etc.... ==> FSX native. The level of complexity is off-topic.

+1


Tim's planes e.g. are as native as they can get, despite being light in the poly department.




I can re post a link to V1.6 if people want or think it might help their sim experience ?.

Since the bird is freeware anyways, why not add it to the library here (and maybe also other sites)?

[heywooood]

I can re post a link to V1.6 if people want or think it might help their sim experience ?.


Best

Michael

Yes please

[michael davies]

Yes please

Here you go http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mickoo/files/AH-1W_FSx_V1.6_FDE.zip :)

Bjorn, I only visit three FS sites, Here, Throttleback and Aerosoft, sadly FS is not 'that' important in my life any more. If some one wants to upload the file to the library here then please feel free, your more than welcome.

Best

Michael

[Bjoern]

If some one wants to upload the file to the library here then please feel free, your more than welcome.

Done and done.

[MM]

Thanks, Michael.

[heywooood]

Here you go http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mickoo/files/AH-1W_FSx_V1.6_FDE.zip :)
Michael

Thank You Michael

[michael davies]

Gents,

Your more than welcome, from previous feedback, its a little more user friendly, but your mileage may vary due to set ups and personal tastes.

Bjorn,

Much obliged, truth be told I wouldn't even know where to begin to upload files here :).

Best

Michael

[Desert Rat]

just a tupence thing.

It's really nice to see what could've been a fair olé rumble turned round and settled in a gentlemanly fashion.

respect,
Jamie

PS. I don't oft visit here, but that kind of behaviour is universal and these days few and far between (gee I must be getting old!!)
PPS. many thanks for the helo, respect and gratitude to both of you.

[mmann]

I don't know if this is a native FSX model or not. If it is not, then it would be the very first of very many FS9 models I have that doesn't hit my computer in the frame rate department!!! So as far as my computer is concerned it performs as an FSX native model. That being said I just don't see it supplanting the Dodosim Bell 206 as my favourite FSX helicopter.

Regards, Mike Mann

[michael davies]

just a tupence thing.

It's really nice to see what could've been a fair olé rumble turned round and settled in a gentlemanly fashion.



I don't think its as bad as it might look LOL, Colin and I have worked together on quite a few projects, he for Milviz as supplier, me for Alphasim as coder to get in sim. I have no issues, never have had, with Colin or Milviz and I think we both know the limits of civility. I do have issues with the other party, issues I generally keep under tight control, but did open the can a little here. Some of that parrallels much like others are writing about in that 'other' thread so I'm not an isolated case. Knowing something is very wrong and not being able to say so for the greater peace is very wearing, I agree that people may not want to hear it, but also feel that people should have the right information to make their own informed choice, especially when parting with money.

Anyway, nuff said, go and enjoy the copter, its a crying shame you cannot shoot anything, its the perfect platform for doing that :).

Enjoy

Michael

[krazycolin]

As Michael said, we've worked together before and, as far as I am concerned, are friends. We agree(d) to disagree. In the end, it's all semantics...

And for me as well, the dev in question is... well, questionable. Even with a new name.

[michael davies]

I don't know if this is a native FSX model or not. If it is not, then it would be the very first of very many FS9 models I have that doesn't hit my computer in the frame rate department!!! So as far as my computer is concerned it performs as an FSX native model. That being said I just don't see it supplanting the Dodosim Bell 206 as my favourite FSX helicopter.

Regards, Mike Mann

There are a couple of reasons why the model is very playable, first of course is the poly limit, being as the model was toned down for FS9 means that it has a low poly count, much lower than a simply FSx model will have these days, smart mapping and choice of materials will help as well as some neat animation coding etc, but primarily the low poly count will help. The second is a 'lite' systems suite, the lack of complex systems and its associated GPU overheads will be a big plus in this model.

I'd be mortified if your Dodosim comment was reversed LOL, that product is by far a much more in depth package, the AH-1W was a simple fun and fly product, aimed primarily for those who are generally fixed wing but want to try a rotary craft here and there, they were never set out to model exacting helo FDE or full systems like other products, thus what they loose on in highly accurate performance and lack of systems depth, they gain in very good playability and on line experiance etc.

Best

Michael

[Bjoern]

Much obliged, truth be told I wouldn't even know where to begin to upload files here :).

I had to take a close look as well, but in the end, it was easy peasy. :d




Anyway, nuff said, go and enjoy the copter, its a crying shame you cannot shoot anything, its the perfect platform for doing that :).

You'd do better with an AH-1 in sims like Operation Flashpoint and Armed Assault. Shoot stuff up, land, get out and inspect what you've done.

Or get shot down, crash land and hitch a ride back to base.


Much better than a half arsed combat implementation in a civil flight sim.

[Bjoern]

By the way:


Here's the link to the download in the library...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=34&linkid=3030