Getting started

[Willy]

Thinking about getting into scenery for FS9. What are some good programs for the beginner to play around with?

[Meshman]

To point you in the right direction, it helps to understand what it is that you want to accomplish?

Modify airports? AFCAD or ADE9x.

Place objects? Instant Scenery 2.

Change terrain? SBuilder or Ground2K.

A lot of times people will say they want to do scenery work, but don't realize there is the top part and the bottom part. Top part sits upon the terrain, like airports and objects. Bottom part *is* the terrain and can be mesh, vector based items (roads, lakes, etc.) or even photo scenery work.

Once the scope gets known, a lot of people give up. Some just don't want to learn the why or how, they just want it done, almost like magic! If you're willing to go forward in small steps, it makes for a better journey. So, where do you want to go?

[Willy]

I've got AFCAD and have used it a bunch in my mucking about with AI traffic so I'm fairly comfortable with it.

Mostly for now, I'm wanting to make some existing airports look more like they do in real life rather than the default buildings ect. I've heard about EZ-Scenery and Rwy 12 and they seem like a place to start. I just don't anything about the tools used for scenery work.

Basically, I'm wanting to just start small and see where it goes from there.

[Meshman]

Good, you haven't given up yet and that's a good sign!

EZ-Scenery (EZS) was made by the same developer that now makes Instant Scenery 2 (IS2). But IS2 is more refined and includes more options, like setting up a Favorites list! Wonder how that came about... There is a demo version that allows you to try before you buy;

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=instscen2

The demo only works around the Seattle area, but gives the opportunity to check it out. Anything made for EZS should work with IS2 and most all the object packages made for Rwy12 have been converted over to the EZS/IS2 format. With well over 100 object packages made for EZS there is a lot to choose from.

AFCAD is still OK to do airport work, but ADE9x might be a better choice. And there should be only a little bit of a learning curve.

Read through the IS manual just to get a feel for things, try doing some damage at Renton, WA (KRNT) and if you have ??? feel free to ask. I just have to remember to check down here when I pass through. :wavey:

[Willy]

Don't know what's up with it, but Flight1 has Instant Scenery listed as discontinued. What's good out of the other similar programs?

[Meshman]

IS v.1 is discontinued, but IS v.2 is at the link in my prior posting.

There is another object placement tool, Whisplacer by Lamont Clark. But it is older and more geeky than IS2. It's also been abandoned, as Lamont shut down his efforts a long time ago. A real shame, as he made some great and innovative tools that cover a wide spectrum of FSX development work.

[sc7500]

...There is another object placement tool, Whisplacer by Lamont Clark. But it is older and more geeky than IS2. It's also been abandoned, as Lamont shut down his efforts a long time ago. A real shame, as he made some great and innovative tools that cover a wide spectrum of FSX development work...

Found it !

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=89&act=down

And the Original Web Page:

http://lc0277.gratisim.fr/whisplacer.html

SC
:kilroy:

[Willy]

Apparently Flight1 doesn't like my money as it decided that my login was incorrect and wouldn't let me even try to see what the problem is at the web address given to correct it.

[paiken]

I've used Airport Design Editor (ADE) for quite a while. It's freeware, but very powerful, allowing you to place runways, taxiways buildings, treees, etc. I've even created my own buildings in gmax and placed them using ADE. They also have a very good forum for any problems you may encounter along the way, as well as tutorials.

[Meshman]

I've even created my own buildings in gmax and placed them using ADE.

Were you planning to make those buildings into an object placement library? You know, for those of us with no skills at that type thing... :jump:


Now Willy, are you saying you can't get to the page with the IS2 demo download link? Or are things going haywire after you download? I use to know the goings on a little better over at Flight1, but I can't even post at the forums anymore, says I'm not activated? Maybe they'll let me some time in the future.

BTW, I was looking at your general area in Goggle Earth, pretty spot. Wish Tennessee had some "free" higher res mesh source available, as that along with my super-duper photo scenery work would do the state well. Heading westbound on I-40 was almost always a good thing for me, as it meant I most likely was heading home. I can still remember the pretty drive after coming across the border with NC. :wavey:

[Willy]

It went haywire when I was trying to purchase it. I ended up just getting EZ Scenery instead. Got it installed and registered, now to start learning to use it.

I was raised in SW Arkansas and made the run between Texarkana and coastal North Carolina numerous times. Coming out of the mountains in east Tennessee heading west is pretty country. Out here in NW Tennessee, it's mostly low rolling hills and pretty flat in FS.

Speaking of custom made objects, the guys over at California Classics are using Google Sketchup to make custom buildings and have found a way to get them into FS. They say it's a lot easier than using gmax or FSDS and they've got a tutorial out on the process. Once I get the hang of EZ Scenery, I might have to give that a try.

Now to find a victim... er, deserted airport to experiment on...

[Meshman]

Texarkana? My paternal granny was born there! I'll let others decide if that was a good thing or not...

There are over 100 object packages available to use with EZS. Most all are good stuff, some leave you scratching your head. Check out anything by Sidney Schwartz, he makes great stuff for smaller airports.

As you start to tinker with EZS keep a list of what libraries you're placing objects from, otherwise you'll have a beach of a time going back and figuring things out. That's if you're planning on sharing your work!

There's a whole lot you can work yourself into, like making your own with Sketchup and the sorts. Be careful Willy, you might start to like the geek work... :salute:

[paiken]

Were you planning to make those buildings into an object placement library? You know, for those of us with no skills at that type thing..

The buildings I made were specific models at KSDL for a project I was working on with Kevin Burns. Unfortunately, we both got caught up in real world issues and dropped the project at around the same time. Now that my issues have settled down, I've been thinking about re-starting the project again, but I haven't touched gmax in over a year.

[sc7500]

...I've used Airport Design Editor (ADE) for quite a while. It's freeware, but very powerful, allowing you to place runways, taxiways buildings, trees, etc...

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a question regarding ADE;

Can it be tweaked somehow to be useful in CFS2 ? I just d/l'd it, but have NO clue whom to contact regarding an effective compatibility mod...

TIA
SC
:kilroy:

[Willy]

Finally had a rainy type day that I could stay inside and play with EZ Scenery. So far so good and I haven't had to **** or hit the help button yet.

One thing I've found that helps is to select something small in the aircraft selection screen to slew around. The Dude aircraft spotter from Pimp Aviation is what I've been using although he'll get lost in the bigger buildings.

I've started on a deserted island in the South Pacific that just had a runway on it, Robinson Crusoe Island (SCIR). So far, I've built a gravel apron for aircraft parking, got some AI running in and out of there and put a few buildings around the apron along with some parked vehicles.

Still going through the object libraries and learning my way around them.

[Meshman]

Willy,

Head over to Avsim and grab this file; http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=73331

It's Crosshairs+, which is a measuring tool/precision placement tool. coupled with being a fun thing to try and fly. It can be done!

Be careful with the object libraries, there's some good stuff to use. Since you're working with FS9 it shouldn't be too big of an issue, but IIRC EZ-Scenery will place everything at NORMAL scenery display level. Too much can start to bog things down, so varying the scenery level to DENSE, VERY DENSE, etc can help keep the stutters away. Especially if you plan to share any of your future work.

If you do get to where you want to add object libraries and share your work, keep track of what you add to your system and what object library you have placed something from. That way it is easier for you to point people to what they need to download and install.

I've seen people get all finished on a project and then have no way of knowing what they used and how the end-user was going to download things. A simple spreadsheet can just handle the designer's name, object file name and then an area for you to check if it's been used or not.

Good luck in your budding scenery design career! :salute:

[Willy]

Right now I'm using the free downloadable EZ Scenery library from Abacus and the California Classics object library along with Garish's trees. Pretty much what is needed for the CalClassics scenery installs. Although it seems to pickup up items from other scenery I have installed. Some of Lionheart's vehicles from Operation Valkrye have shown up but it won't let me place them. Shame as I liked that Opel fuel truck.

Can CFS 2 scenery objects be used in FS9?

[Meshman]

Can CFS 2 scenery objects be used in FS9?

Don't know, as I never had CFS2. Though I did see CFS 3 in a bargain bin at Office Max for $9.99.

My days of using EZS are long past, so I can't give 100% definite guidance, but there *should* be an option in the setting about showing global or out of the area libraries. Unticking that will no longer show Tokyo when you're sitting in Tennessee.

New term for you to recognize, geo-locked. What that means is if I take a scenery model and specifically tell FS (9 or X) to place it at "X" Lat/Lon, then that scenery object is only available in that general area. But if I take a scenery object and make an Object Library with it, I can now tell FS to place the object wherever I want. That's why Mr. Bill's Opel won't show outside his scenery area. You could request from Bill that he allow you to make an Object Library with the fuel truck and if he says OK there isn't a "lot" of work involved.

What you might find is that some of the terms and techniques are confusing the first time around, but once you've done it once or twice things start to click.

And the CFS2 stuff might be able to be converted into FS9 or FSX format, as there's a tool setup to handle such things. I can point you in the direction, if you're willing to try. But be warned Willy, this stuff can grow on you... :wiggle:

[simonu]

To answer CFS2 related questions.
Object librarys in CFS2 and FS2K2 are a very different thing from those in FS9 and FSX.

The object placement tools mentioned in this thread will not work for CFS2.

FS9 can load CFS2/FS2k2 object librarys but I do not think they can be placed with the tools mentioned above, they must be placed with the old style SCASM code. Airport2.6 and FSSC are the GUIs for generating old style scenery.

BTW sc7500, this is thread hijacking, naughty boy, I will send your email to Dirtman if you do it again. Now get back to fixing that F14.

[sc7500]

...BTW sc7500, this is thread hijacking, naughty boy, I will send your email to Dirtman if you do it again. Now get back to fixing that F14...

I'm a-goin' - I'm A-goin' !!! lol
SC
:kilroy:

[Meshman]

To answer CFS2 related questions.
Object librarys in CFS2 and FS2K2 are a very different thing from those in FS9 and FSX.


I'm thinking Arno G.'s Model Converter X can take CFSx files and convert them to FS(x) format, which can then be made into a Library. Mark from the Solomons 1943 project did this (IIRC) and would be a good source to check with. Think I'll go rattle his cage and see if he's awake? :wavey:

[roger-wilco-66]

I'm thinking Arno G.'s Model Converter X can take CFSx files and convert them to FS(x) format, which can then be made into a Library. Mark from the Solomons 1943 project did this (IIRC) and would be a good source to check with. Think I'll go rattle his cage and see if he's awake? :wavey:

He's awake :-)
You can not read CFS2 models directly into MCX, unfortunatly, without getting an awful 3d mess or errors.
I only used MCX to import SCASM code, convert the textures to dds and optimize the 3d models for FSX (draw call reduction and color-to-texture fixes) and finally save it as FSX mdl. The hard part of converting CFS2 objects to FS9 / FSX is SCASM coding. You have to decompile the mdl / bgl files into SCASM code and isolate the "good" code from the damage model, which is the reason why FSX / FS9 can't read CFS2 code for scenery objects. The cfs2 model consists of several sub-parts which includes the damage models, which is set or filtered by conditional commands in the code stream. FSX does not understand this, this is why you get a "model cannot be read" error or the like.
Well, after separating the code, I read it into MCX, do my optimization work and in some cases set the right dimensions, and the save it as native FSX model. After that, I usually group the mdls in bgl archives.
That's the process.
Good thing about MCX regarding FS9: it can save FS9 mdls, among other formats.

Cheers,
Mark

[roger-wilco-66]

Ahh I forgot, reagarding the question of the usability of ADE(x) for CFS2: theres a forum where the developer is active. He goes by the name of scruffyduck there.

Just wander to:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95

I designed all my airports (or "deleted" non historical ones) in my Solomon scenery with ADE for FSX. Nice and easy to work with, once you have learned the basics.
For obvious reasons (incompatibility of scenery objects, for example), I don't believe that you can use it for CFS2. But I have not tried it, I must say.

Cheers,
Mark

[Willy]

I was mainly interested in using static ships from CFS 2 in FS9. My FS install has been redone with vintage scenery and AI. The modern container ships and cruise liners are very much out of place. I've got a bunch of aircraft carriers scattered about the globe, but would like to put in some older ships.

[roger-wilco-66]

I was mainly interested in using static ships from CFS 2 in FS9. My FS install has been redone with vintage scenery and AI. The modern container ships and cruise liners are very much out of place. I've got a bunch of aircraft carriers scattered about the globe, but would like to put in some older ships.

Willy,

the CFS2 ships are easy. I converted all of them to native FSX models.
But I must say, some of the original CFS2 ships look very simple. Anyhow, since I have the code ready, I might try to convert them to FS9 and you can have a try with them, if you like. Just tell me, which ships do you want.

Cheers,
Mark