Does this Senator think he is exempt from the regs?

[jmig]

FAA INVESTIGATING SENATOR INHOFE'S CLOSED RUNWAY LANDING (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1760-full.html#203537)
Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.) says he won't guarantee he'll be more vigilant about checking NOTAMs after he landed on a closed runway occupied by maintenance workers ten days ago in Texas. "People who fly a lot just don't do it," Inhofe told the Tulsa World (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20101031_16_A21_CUTLIN512142). "I won't make any commitments." Inhofe added that while "technically" pilots should "probably" check NOTAMs, it would be impractical for him to do so on the many flights he makes to small airports in Oklahoma each year. The FAA has confirmed it is investigating the Oct 21 incident in which Inhofe landed a Cessna 340 on an occupied closed runway at Port Isabel-Cameron County Airport, Texas, He was reportedly carrying three others in the light twin when he made the landing on a runway bearing oversized painted Xs, a large red truck, other vehicles, and construction workers. The workers were using loud equipment at the time and didn't hear the plane's approach, so one person ran to warn them. A supervisor immediately reported the incident to the FAA and told TulsaWorld.com he was "still shaking" when he reached the hangar to confront the pilot. For his part, Inhofe said he didn't see the Xs until late on final and was concerned he might not be able to abort safely. He said he landed "well off to the side" of the workers. There were no injuries. A few days after his unorthodox arrival, Inhofe Saturday notified "an airport official" of his intent and used a taxiway for departure, according to The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/26/AR2010102606944.html?hpid=moreheadlines). The senator has since spoken with the FAA and will "just wait and see what happens." That hasn't stopped him from offering reporters some form of explanation. <!--HTML_ONLY-->More... (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1760-full.html#203537)

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1760-full.html#203537

[Snuffy]

As a little saying goes ...

Do the Crime ... Do the time. I don't care who you are, no one is above or exempt from the law.

[Toastmaker]

He's a "breaking news" story waiting to happen -


:running:

[Curtis P40]

He needs to be flying FSX, not in the real world.

[txnetcop]

I never knew a pilot who did not check NOTAMs. It could save a life or let you lose yours for not paying attention!

[Emil Frand]

Does this Senator think he is exempt from the regs?

dont most of em think that way?

[Bone]

FAA INVESTIGATING SENATOR INHOFE'S CLOSED RUNWAY LANDING (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1760-full.html#203537)
Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.) says he won't guarantee he'll be more vigilant about checking NOTAMs after he landed on a closed runway occupied by maintenance workers ten days ago in Texas. "People who fly a lot just don't do it,"



The Senator must think he speaks for everyone who fly's alot. He's wrong.

[beana51]

It seems Flight Sim Jocks are very sanctimonious.about real avaition....Its a fact that in all since "Wrong Way Coragan",these human frailty's pop up..Planes have been landing on wrong runways,and to include wrong airports!.....Of course its a safety factor...with all of this ,its really a rairty....this Senator has been a great supporter of Aviation ...often battling those who wish to regulate it out of existence?Even on the sim?...Honstly how many Sim Jocks can land anything , correctly ,much less a Cat II landing??SOLO??? No Pause ,Reset button here!! ....He of course will be dealt with...While the FAA ,not the really protector of air safety ,they will hammer this guy.Very Publically!...the Currant FAA administrate Randolph Babbitt,a Political appointee of the currant Pres...nomniated by a one party Senate and confermed!!........This Pilot is a Conservative Senator ,often a thorn in the side of Liberal Sen. Boxer!......More than meets the eyes here.....and it will be Public Over kill as usual!!!! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon25.gif

[pied]

Sadly, I believe that you are wrong. The FAA needs this sad sack of crap to get it's reauthorization passed so this "minor!" infraction will quietly disappear...


He will kill someone someday (with luck just himself) and his estate will sue the Feds and win because wasn't stripped of his license earlier.

You or I wouldn't have the flying privilege after this event. Ain't politics grand!


Pied

[jmig]

It seems Flight Sim Jocks are very sanctimonious.about real avaition....Its a fact that in all since "Wrong Way Coragan",these human frailty's pop up..Planes have been landing on wrong runways,and to include wrong airports!.....Of course its a safety factor...with all of this ,its really a rairty....this Senator has been a great supporter of Aviation ...often battling those who wish to regulate it out of existence?Even on the sim?...Honstly how many Sim Jocks can land anything , correctly ,much less a Cat II landing??SOLO??? No Pause ,Reset button here!! ....He of course will be dealt with...While the FAA ,not the really protector of air safety ,they will hammer this guy.Very Publically!...the Currant FAA administrate Randolph Babbitt,a Political appointee of the currant Pres...nomniated by a one party Senate and confermed!!........This Pilot is a Conservative Senator ,often a thorn in the side of Liberal Sen. Boxer!......More than meets the eyes here.....and it will be Public Over kill as usual!!!! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon25.gif

As a pilot I always checked Notams. I would hate to fly somewhere only to find the field closed. This thread is not about Liberal/Conservative or Republican/Democrat. It is about a notable individual who publicly states he doesn't have the time to check Notams and who would risk the lives of himself, his passengers and airfield workers because he feels he is too important or busy to check Notams or follow regs.

I am well aware the Senator is a friend of aviation. However, his recent actions and attitude are both harmful to aviation in general and GA in particular.

Again, this thread is about aviation not politics. Individuals who can't keep politics out of this thread will find their posts edited or gone.

[beana51]

Sorry guys, Really...but when real world issues are interjected in a game fantasy world the results can be predicted,often without real facts ,the truth gets distored!!!..On some Site's this is totally prohibited,no wiggle room..However here,it seems to be more or less,tolarated!!....hope this holds true to all Non Sim subjects....I really did not to imply that I had an agenda, there are to many blogs for that!!Its The Facts Mam !,...but I do watch the Senate in Sessions, Public information,most of them,doing so one sees and hears whats the currant atmosphere,interplay,dialog is... REALITY!!....Often our world is not what we see,and hear second handed....again ..Sorry..!..however Love You Wonderfull folk!! :wiggle:

[Bushpounder]

Even if he didn't check the NOTAMS, the BIG X's should have rang a bell!

Don

[TeaSea]

I don't think the Senator ever claimed he was exempt. I believe he will face the same scrutiny as anyone else.

For the record, good safe pilots do silly things all the time. At MacDill AFB we regularly have private aircraft land on the B-36 capable runway mistaking it for Davis Island's tiny Peter O'Knight. The Security Forces always enjoy this.

Last year I watched a renown demonstration pilot land against with the wind and against other traffic, without contacting the tower. He had not read the NOTAM establishing the tower.

[beana51]

Not to belabor this,like many here ,who do fly real planes,in my case ,general aviation types,since 1968,...I will be the first to admit,one day, I got the Dreaded call to Report To Tower Upon Landing!! ..After a vigor's Butt Reaming..I got LEARNT!...it was gentlemanly, with purpose and respect......Was friends with that Old guy for years...some of tower people have never been in the air...took him flying .We both learned a lot then..Showded him the single pilots work load,radios,Communications,folding, Charts,managing the airplane,looking for traffic,and Yes ,Fiendish controllers ,who speak so fast as to play the game "GOTCHA",..Who knows some here will have that experience,or has had one? Let us know!!One Never Know do One!! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon25.gif....Never meet a perfect person in my life!!!..Even AUTOPILOTS screw up!!...If I flew the Sim ,like a real plane????..ya do not wanna know!!......Worlds apeart!!....CHEERS!! Vin!! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon22.gif

[jmig]

I never got the "Call the Tower" message. I have had a few get testy because I didn't react fast enough for him. I always thought, "F&$kem! I'm flying this plane, not him." And did the best I could while remaining safe.

[PRB]

When I was learning to fly planes, it was out of NAS Lemoore, CA. Normal procedure was to fly to the end of the runway, 13,500 feet down range, then turn right to leave the airport area. However, we could, and always did, request an “immediate right turn out”, and it was always granted. Every single time. Well, the very first time, after getting my solo license, that I took the plane out alone, I did the same thing – requested an immediate turn out. The response was a bit garbled, but I “thought” it was granted. In fact I just assumed I got the same answer we'd always received from that question. Dumb mistake. They said no, for the first time ever! The reason was there were A-7s in the pattern. As a student pilot, I didn't get in trouble with the tower. My instructor got that. Then I got it from the instructor.

As for the senator, the statement “people who fly a lot don't read NOTAMS” seems bizzare.

[beana51]

Way to go John,Tell Em Off!!!..Cockpit Air rage!!!.:jump:in my case a pair of FAA Beaurcrats,on a 10 mile final ,I had ample room to Cross wind to Final,I was appox three miles..Told to land long,Idid!!.They got insulted,and told the Tower to chew me out!!...They felt bigger then,and the FAA lost a lot more credibilty with me..that day, in 1972 I recall,no problems since....FAP ON THEM!!
feels good,I'll say it again,..FAP ON THEM!!...LOL!!.........http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon25.gif

[Flyboy208]

The FAA should suspend his licence IMHO, as a R/W pilot I always check NOTAM's, especially these days with the more crowded skies. Seems like a pompous SOB to me, lucky nobody was injured.

Politicians and celebrities seem to think they are always above the law ...

Mike

[beana51]

There we go again..class warfare..C'mon..in the sky there are no exceptions...those who disregard regulations get hearings,decisions are made,and appropriate action taken...I do not care if its John Trovolta John Denver, John Glenn, Waldo Pepper,or you and I.........its seems many doth protest to much...as if this was an earth shaken event....I spent time,at least I used too at airports,be it JFK on a Fri afternoon ,or Podunk ,in the sticks...STUFF HAPPENS!..In the Sky and on the Road!!...got me wondering your motive now??.....Cheers to ya!...To bad we are not in a hanger with a six pack,and boiled peanuts!!!!:ernae:

[magoo]

STUFF HAPPENS!
....lol....fly floaters for awhile....."wet your pants" takes on a whole new meaning....

...But now the senator did pull a bonner with some apparent awareness of what he was doing. A very cavalier attitude. I think that's truly what may be triggering emotions in readers. I hope the fellow learns from what he did, and never does it again. If you can see the numbers, you can see the "X". If you can see the "X" (VFR)....you can see the work crew, the three tonner, the bobcat....etc, etc. I can imagine that the construction workers were scared sh*tless, even if the pilot thought he knew what he was doing. Knowingly dumb and arrogant about it.

...Disfasionably Duh.

[Willy]

Knowingly dumb and arrogant about it.

That's what gets me about it. We all make mistakes, but by saying that he doesn't read NOTAMS, his are on purpose. Anyone with an attitude like that has no business piloting aircraft. Hopefully whatever the FAA decides to do about will be made public.

[Bone]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon25.gif[/IMG]

Well, I'm Cat II certified, and one of the many requirements of CAT II are that two pilots are needed to do it. There is no SOLO Cat II.

You think there's more here than meets the EYE? The regs say that a pilot has to review all weather, NOTAMS, and performance criteria before taking off. The Senator pretty much admits that he never does that. That's a Violation for every time he has left the ground, and he incriminated himself. Go ahead and defend him if you want, but he's already stated his guilt...and he put the people working on that runway in danger.

[beana51]

My friends and all are ..next time you board any Regional airpllane...all I can tell you is "BOY YER IN A HEAPA TROUBLE"...talk about the FAA here will astonish you....They allow the worst air carriers go and kill people.....most notable was that FLT.3407,the Buffalo crash...Incompentants,cost cutting operations,fragrant breaking of rules,and a host of other things...all since Dergulation....these and other serous infractions of the rules are ignored,and signed off by the FAA...yea! a Pompass Ass Senator did a dumb thing...Hang him,makes ya feel good...but where is the real world outrage with the FAA today???......Selective out rage won't cut it.....Our Line Pilots are the best in the world,not so with fly by night,low cost ,because of low pay and maintenance gets a FAA pass!!But you ,I some high profile Senator,or a rich entertainer???Man Thats news!!//Dog bits man no news,But Man bites dog???That a story now!!
next time you and your family gets on a small plane with lets say a Contintial Logo on it..its NOT!!
There are only 400 FAA inspectors...This is how Value Jet was allowed to kill people..you rememberer that the Oxygen containers?,faulty inspection?,FAA approved.?..and those innocent people wound up as GATOR DO DO!!... No More Promise.Got Simming to do,no more BLOVIATING!!.Going back to my Amelia Earheart Round the World Trip.The old way dead Reckening!!..my second week on it...Left HOWLAND on to Honolulu.....Man its long......Loved Amelia,but even she screwed up..traglically!!

[N2056]

I'm at a loss as to why you seem bent on this series of ranting replies...:kilroy:

[Bone]

..next time you board any Regional airpllane...all I can tell you is "BOY YER IN A HEAPA TROUBLE"...talk about the FAA here will astonish you....They allow the worst air carriers go and kill people.....most notable was that FLT.3407,the Buffalo crash...Incompentants,cost cutting operations,fragrant breaking of rules,and a host of other things...

Fifty two percent of Delta Airlines's daily departures are on a regional jet...that's 850 regional jet departures a day just out of Atlanta, with a summertime peak of 1100 rj's a day out of ATL. Then there's the other hubs of Cincinatti, New York (JFK and LGA), Detroit, Minneapolis, Salt Lake, Los Angeles, and Boston....totalling many THOUSANDS of daily rj departures for just one Airline...Delta. The other major airlines have just as many rj departures....how many more thousands of daily departures???

" ..next time you board any Regional airpllane...all I can tell you is "BOY YER IN A HEAPA TROUBLE"..." Seriously, man, you make an ignorant statement like this and then back it up with a two year old crash in Buffalo and a 14 year old crash in the Everglades? Delta landed a 767 on a taxiway in Atlanta last year by mistake, Delta ran a DC-9 off of rwy 18 in Savanah about two months ago, Northwest overflew it's destination airport by 150 miles at 35,000 feet, a US Airways pilot fired his gun in the cockpit while landing...there's alot more buffoonery I could talk about at the mainline level. What about the crew that did the emergency landing at JFK a few weeks back when the right main gear wouldn't deploy? That was an rj...and it's back in the air now because the crew did a superb job of landing it with minimal damage. I flew that plane two days ago, and when I walked around it, I couldn't tell that it had ever been in a gear up landing. The crew did an awesome job! And so did the mechanics!

I'm one of those unsafe pilots you just went on about, based in Atlanta and flying for the company since March of 1993, and it's my third flying job. You would be astonished at how many military pilots fly rj's, too. Very qualified pilots.

It's really too bad about the Buffalo crash, that was major buffoonery, and yes that Captain had a bad history. It's also too bad that the mostly unqualified sensationalist media reporters can write alot of smack about a few instances, and then people like you want to indict all of us. But you'll step up to the plate and take up for someone that has admitted to being guilty of breaking regs to the point of endangering peoples lives.

[txnetcop]

The FAA should suspend his licence IMHO, as a R/W pilot I always check NOTAM's, especially these days with the more crowded skies. Seems like a pompous SOB to me, lucky nobody was injured.

Politicians and celebrities seem to think they are always above the law ...

Mike


OH COME ON...way too extreme!

[magoo]

I'm one of those unsafe pilots you just went on about, based in Atlanta and flying for the company since March of 1993, and it's my third flying job. You would be astonished at how many military pilots fly rj's, too. Very qualified pilots.
I think most of us are on about a public polititian at the controls, approaching an uncontrolled airfield without a visual overflight, selecting a closed runway active with construction workers and equipment, and being quite glib and willful about the whole thing.

I remember the gun misfire in the flightdeck episode. I don't think we got a public quote from the pilot in question stating humourously that he knew what he was doing and does it all the time. ("Amazing how many bullet holes you can pump into a flight deck and still maintain pressurization and systems integrity",....Groucho Marx eyebrows and cigar inserted here...).

When considering the amounts of flights, all commercial, private, or military that are happening anywhere on the planet at any time, certainly there are going to be errors, malfunctions, mishaps, etc. Numbers, nature and humanity. It happens.

The difference is certainly great between the sober post-conduct of the surviving proffesional and private pilots, and/or this particular nonchalant politician.

...I don't know....am I making any sense with this...??

[Bone]

I think most of us are on about a polititian at the controls, approaching an uncontrolled airfield without a visual overflight, selecting a closed runway active with construction workers and equipment, and being quite glib and willful about the whole thing.

...I don't know....am I making any sense with this...??

Yeah, I'm on the same page as almost everyone else here about the Senator. I was just responding to that other guy, from which you took my quote. You are making more sense than that other guy, for sure.

[magoo]

Yeah...it's not really rantable material.

I'd just love to sit in the right seat with checklists, flight plan, notams, weather briefing, and a hickory stick. He'd probably exit the plane with a few welts, but he'd be a lot safer to everyone after that.

Mmmmm...yes. My emotional side shows. Maybe that is rantish.

'Pologies all round.

:ernae:

[txnetcop]

The one thing everyone is forgetting is that this Senator is pro General Aviation and works closely with AOPA and other Pilot's Associations. We need these guys in our corner to keep GA open for all who have a dream to fly. I'm not excusing his stupidity but to suspend his license for this is a definite over-reaction.
Ted

[djscoo]

The one thing everyone is forgetting is that this Senator is pro General Aviation and works closely with AOPA and other Pilot's Associations. We need these guys in our corner to keep GA open for all who have a dream to fly. I'm not excusing his stupidity but to suspend his license for this is a definite over-reaction.
Ted
So he doesn't have to follow the rules all other pilots do?

[beana51]

Mr. Bone ...deleted because the questions are unfair and imply incompetence ... It seems Pilot error were main causes!The results of those investigations were from more qualified people than you or I.....I suggest ,and with due respect ,do not read newspapers,or those who benefit from these conditions , lobbyists,and those with vested interest in low funded operations!! and the good Ole boy club at the FAA..Of which the findings showed!!Hey I do not make this up?You can disagree,but you cannot change facts!!..But get the findings Its in the congressional records!!..
I/m close to 80 now,seen a lot of stuff going on..My friend. As Pres. Reagen said Trust But Verify. Be always vigilant ,yet with the open mind!!!.....Good Luck to you,I'm sure your an excellent pilot,But please ,lets not bury facts and incidents along with the dead!!...So Long!! :salute:

Back to the prime directive..Simming!!
Anyone complete an Amelia Earheart Round the World flight..real time?????..Man its a long trip!!...gotta get my EB6 out...

[Bone]

Mr. Bone I'm sure your confidence will comfort those dead peoples familys..tell me did you cover the hearings on these incidents?? Or does time heal all grief? or is this a good defense on your part ,for you have a job...I wonder whats your pay rate compared to line pilots??/Are the flying times of most with you adequate??/How much time in the aircraft they fly??? Are knowledge of the systems ingrained in their brain? are there doctored Weight and Balance things going on?Are the Maintenance crews first rate? or like most are cast offs from major airlines!!...It seems Pilot error were main causes!The results of those investigations were from more qualified people than you or I.....I suggest ,and with due respect ,do not read newspapers,or those who benefit from these conditions , lobbyists,and those with vested interest in low funded operations!! and the good Ole boy club at the FAA..Of which the findings showed!!Hey I do not make this up?You can disagree,but you cannot change facts!!..But get the findings Its in the congressional records!!..
I/m close to 80 now,seen a lot of stuff going on..My friend. As Pres. Reagen said Trust But Verify. Be always vigilant ,yet with the open mind!!!.....Good Luck to you,I'm sure your an excellent pilot,But please ,lets not bury facts and incidents along with the dead!!...So Long!! :salute:

Back to the prime directive..Simming!!
Anyone complete an Amelia Earheart Round the World flight..real time?????..Man its a long trip!!...gotta get my EB6 out...





I'm sure at the ripe old age of 80 you have seen some mileage, but your words clearly indicate you don't really know whats going on in todays world of 121 air carrier aviation...and they also indicate you probably weren't involved in yesteryears world of aviation, either. Plane crashes are virtually non-existant today, as compared to yesteryears. Someone of your age should know that. Todays regional pilots have a much better safety record than professional pilots of your age group. All the rules and regs, policies and procedures, do's and don'ts, come from the screw ups of yesteryear. There's a saying about regs, that they are all written in blood....that would be blood from the old timers.

Sarcastically saying that my confidence comforts the families of the dead is absurd. That's you twisting meaning. Planes crash because of an error chain. If you take one link out of the chain of events, then the crash most likely wouldn't have happened. That's NTSB 101. I've been through the ALPA Basic Safety Course...ie the crash investigation course conducted by the Airline Pilots Association. Who's burying facts? What even makes you say that? Delta and Northwest have both crashed planes on take off because they "forgot" to set the flaps...killing over 140 people. The worst aviation disaster to date was when two B747's collided on the runway in Tenerife, Canary Islands. These are facts you don't seem to consider while calling all regional pilots incompetent. Mainline pilots have killed far more people than regional pilots. Ten years ago a United B747 took off from San Francisco and lost an engine. The pilots screwed up the engine out procedure and came within 100 feet of hitting a hill of about 100 houses. That's well documented.

You cited the Buffalo crash as proof all regionals are dangerous and will kill you. That crash was a shame. The pilot mishandled a stall recovery while on an ILS approach in instrument conditions. Well, all things being equal, shouldn't we condemn the American Airlines pilots as incompetents, too? American crashed an A-310 shortly after take-off from JFK in VFR conditions. The plane entered wake turbulence and the pilot broke the tail off with excessive rudder inputs...ie he mishandled the recovery in CLEAR conditions. The NTSB said the accident was a direct result of overly aggresive rudder input by the pilot. The FAA ripped through Americans training procedures, and found more problems. You didn't say anything about this, but yet said something about me burying facts. The score here? Colgan 50 dead, American 180 dead. It's all terrible, but my math says the American one is worse. But hey, if that's not enough for you, what about when the American MD-80 chopped the top 5 feet off of a 200 foot section of trees at the approach end of the Bradley-Locks airport? They set their altimeters wrong on an ILS approach. Oddly enough, being so close to the ground is what ulimately saved them. If not that one, how about the American MD-80 that crashed in Little Rock when the pilots forgot to arm the ground spoilers. I forgot how many were killed in that one, but the Captain died, and he was also the Chicago base Chief Pilot! But forget that, I'm giving you too many choices, lets just focus on Buffalo and the regional airline incompetence. Keep it simple, right?

Do you really think professional pilots don't get info on these events? That you are Mr. Research, and the people who actually Know how to fly just fly around ignorant and uninformed? I could have a PhD from all the data that is mandated reading, and a sore ass from regular classroom time....and I'm no different than the rest of my fellow pro pilots, because they are inundated with the same Tech Bulletins and Briefings right along with me. Being a Captain, I get the fire hose and job check every six months.....just like all of the other Captains. Ongoing education goes on weekly in this job. We've practically got sniff detectors around here looking for those who pass gas the wrong way.

Doctored weight and balances, cast offs from major airlines....you've made some stretched out extrapolations, and as I said in a previous response to you, you're indicting all of us. There are former Colonels and Generals flying RJ's, did you know that? Albeit, we only have three Generals at my airline, but we have a quite a number of Colonels, and a load of Lt Colonels and on down....not exactly cast-offs. Kelly Flinn even flew here for about 7 years, remember her, the B-52 chick? OK, well, maybe she was a cast-off, but she's at FEDEX now hauling boxes of Depends around.



TO THE REST OF THE MEMBERS AT SOH: I apologize to you for having to read my pissing post, but I've had it with this type of aviation expert.

[TARPSBird]

Hi Bone,
Nice rebuttal and very well composed. My hat's off to you and all the flight crews I've flown with over the years who've gotten me from from point A to point B safely. :salute:

[jmig]

Bone, I can appreciate your feeling the need to defend your character and that of your fellow pilots. You did so in a professional manner. I think we all understand the commitment and effort that goes into be an airline pilot. I for one have never felt less save on a regional jet than larger aircraft.

beana51, you too have made your point. I have edited your last post to remove what I consider to be unfair questions and accusations toward our member Bone.

I am also closing this thread because I think everything that needed to be said about the incident has been said.