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rohan
October 19th, 2010, 06:30
Well, I finally submitted and decided that I want this software. The only problem is that I'm not sure how it would be best to go about that ... I could buy X3TC on Steam for £20 and get "automatic" updates for "all time", or I could buy X3 Gold on CD / DVD for £15 and apply updates from Egosoft manually myself.

The Steam option seems nice and easy, especially as I've just bought RailWorks2 from there on special offer. The downside is that I would then have both games installed as part of the Steam client install, making for bigger backup images and more complexity in terms of what features are included from both games in those images (and would be restored from those images). Or is it possible to have more than one Steam client install on the same PC ?

Of course, the alternative is to buy the ROM version of Gold, get more software for less money, and be able to install it where I please on my newly built dual boot PC.

Another question for which I could use your advice in making a decision - does X3TC run better under Win7 Pro or WinXP Home SP3 ? Can it make use of all that extra memory available under Win7, or is it more at home with old reliable WinXP ?

Thanks in advance for any input,
Ro
:ernae:

GT182
October 19th, 2010, 07:48
Welcome Pilot. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/GT182/Thumbup.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/GT182/sigpic336_1.gif

I'm not a fan of Steam. I've got the Gold Edition and like that a lot better. Easier to reinstall if you have to and updates from Egosoft are easy too... InMyHumbleOpinion. We can direct you to them if you want. Once you install from the dvd you'll need to register at Egosoft.

I'm running the Apricot Mapping Service Mod and love it. You can trade or go the route as a pilot on his own being an Assassin and/or taking out Pirates and Xenon. Lots of credits can be made that way and to me it's easier than trading. But that's your choice. Also go thru the posts in here and they'll be a big help too.

Once you do get X3TC installed, play with it and learn the key commands. It's not hard and won't take long. Reunion is ok but TC to me is the best one to play.... that's your choice too. Game play is different for each tho. TC is easier IMO.

rohan
October 19th, 2010, 17:41
Thanks for the input. I saw in another thread that you had problems with Steam in the past ...

In a thread you updated yesterday, I also saw a comment about multiple installs. Please can you elaborate a little on the whys and hows of this ... for example, is it as easy to do as CFS2 or as hard as FSX ?

thanks again,
Ro

GT182
October 19th, 2010, 18:26
Yeah, I've had a few problems with Steam, but they were't real serious..... just a PITA you might say. And they're one reason I won't use it. Like I said, having your own X3 Gold is far better.

As for multiple installs, I haven't had good luck with them. Gigabyte(Mike) is the one that can really help you out with that. There is a program that will allow multiple campaigns but he'd be better at telling you how that works. You can do multiple installs but it's a bit different. Renaming each, and changinging out Saves is one way to get it to work. And Mike really knows his stuff on that too. As for me, I run just one install of X3TC with the AMS mod and add scripts with the Plugin Manager V1.20. That, of all the mods I've tried, is my favorite. Heck, I don't even run Reunion anymore. It's good and easier to play than TC, but the graphics and senario with AMS installed is top notch.

rohan
October 19th, 2010, 20:21
Thanks again.

One problem I am having is finding things in the Egosoft forum(s). I was browsing there for extra ships the other day without having much success, partly because threads about new builds are started but then just peter out with no news of where the ships are available ... they really should have some sort of hanger for downloads instead of relying on attachments to threads. Perhaps I just haven't found it yet.

In particular, I'd like to know more about the Apricot Mapping Service and Plug In Manager you mentioned, and the Vidarsaurus that I've seen you like so much.

Perhaps Mike will drop by and say more about multiple installs, especially on the why I should (or shouldn't).

Please can someone comment on running X3 under different versions of Windows,
thanks again,
Ro

Lionheart
October 19th, 2010, 20:52
Hey Ro,

They do have one single post stickie that has TONS of various downloads in it. I used to have it bookmarked. I am sure that Gary and Mike have it bookmarked. I'll wait to see if they chime in on that.


Ive only run X3 on WinXP 32bit.

GT182
October 20th, 2010, 09:57
Ro, here's some Links you might need.

Egosoft's X3 forum index..... http://forum.egosoft.com/index.php?c=2

Their news on the 3.0 update for TC.... http://www.egosoft.com/news/current_en.php You will need this for TC to bring it up to date.
Some advice... Make sure you run TC 3.0 once and see what's installed on the ship you choose to fly. This update night possibly have the ship extensions you want to add already installed. In the AMS mod for my sim, I'm flying the Vidarsaurus and it has nost everything already installed. This ship is in Argon Prime and it's yours already. All you need to do is change from the ship you start with to the Vidar and you are set to go. At 499m/s it one fast ship. Others are now just as fast with 3.0 but the Vidar is one sweet ride. ;)

Apricot Maping Service downloads.... http://apricotmappingservice.com/X3TCdownloads/

The Argonopedia..... http://argonopedia.ppcis.org/upgrades.php?sid=f27bcc50e0bf13709e010def528d2f30
Useful to know about ship ugrades and where to get them.

Plugin Manager Lite : V1.20 to install scripts...... http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=265915

Community Script & Mod Download Library for X3: Terran Conflict...... http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216690
This is the one Lionheart is referring to.

rohan
October 20th, 2010, 19:03
Bill,
thanks for your input there. I ordered my copy of Gold yesterday but it's currently out of stock - it may be that the master has been updated, though I doubt it, but I'll see when it arrives. Think I'll stick to using XP for X3, since there are still a lot of Vista "features" that I hated showing in the RTM of Win7.

Gary,
thanks for those links. Yesterday, I downloaded a copy of Plugin Manager but I see you're using the Lite version, so, perhaps a stupid question, what's the difference between the two versions ?

One thing I particularly wanted was a link I found at the bottom of the first post in the thread in your last link - a list of ship download URLs at -
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=274276

And another possibly stupid question - most, if not all ships, have what looks like a ranking annotation by the side of the name from M1 to, I think, M7. Is there somewhere that explains what these codes mean in simple English ?

Finally, two key questions, if you don't mind. When my disc arrives and I first install X3TC, is there anything I need to do that isn't listed in the "destructions". I'm thinking FSX here, like doing a defrag before I even start the program, or making a flight between installing FSX and one of the SPs.

Should I start up that steep learning curve before I install any mods, or is there anything that I really need to add to the basic install before I start using it ?

Thanks again, guys,
Ro
:ernae:

marklaur
October 20th, 2010, 23:54
Bill,
thanks for your input there. I ordered my copy of Gold yesterday but it's currently out of stock - it may be that the master has been updated, though I doubt it, but I'll see when it arrives. Think I'll stick to using XP for X3, since there are still a lot of Vista "features" that I hated showing in the RTM of Win7.
Thanks again, guys,
Ro
:ernae:

I hate to ask but why buy the Gold version, better to get the "X Superbox" with all games fully updated so no patches to get at all. If the Gold is out of stock check with Egosoft about the X Superbox. You may be able to cancel the order and get a better overall deal.

Just a thought.

Regards MarkL

rohan
October 21st, 2010, 01:32
MarkL,
then you'll hate the answer too ... cost. I wasn't prepared to spend £30 to £40 just to get X3TC, at this point in the game. I could have bought X3TC alone, but, for a mere £2 more, X3 Gold was available ... and the out of stock doesn't worry me because I'm still finishing off the build of my new PC ! Once that's finished, I've got FSX to install, including all that that entails ...

Hence etc.
Ro

gigabyte
October 28th, 2010, 14:35
Bill,
thanks for your input there. I ordered my copy of Gold yesterday but it's currently out of stock - it may be that the master has been updated, though I doubt it, but I'll see when it arrives. Think I'll stick to using XP for X3, since there are still a lot of Vista "features" that I hated showing in the RTM of Win7.

Gary,
thanks for those links. Yesterday, I downloaded a copy of Plugin Manager but I see you're using the Lite version, so, perhaps a stupid question, what's the difference between the two versions ?

One thing I particularly wanted was a link I found at the bottom of the first post in the thread in your last link - a list of ship download URLs at -
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=274276

And another possibly stupid question - most, if not all ships, have what looks like a ranking annotation by the side of the name from M1 to, I think, M7. Is there somewhere that explains what these codes mean in simple English ?

Finally, two key questions, if you don't mind. When my disc arrives and I first install X3TC, is there anything I need to do that isn't listed in the "destructions". I'm thinking FSX here, like doing a defrag before I even start the program, or making a flight between installing FSX and one of the SPs.

Should I start up that steep learning curve before I install any mods, or is there anything that I really need to add to the basic install before I start using it ?

Thanks again, guys,
Ro
:ernae:

OK where do I start, I will have to look back in my Onenote botebooks and grab the important links, it will likely be the weekend before I can do that. To answer you questions here quickly, go with the Mod Manager lite, it is much easier to use and unless you are building add on's it will do everything you need.

Regarding what you do first - I always recommend a defrag before and after installing any game this size, it will be 6 + gig when all is said and done. You should also check the Ergosoft official site for the patches, if you get Gold it should be ver 2.5, you will need 2.6, 2.7, 2.71 and 3.0 to be fully current, the link for updates is on the GameStart menu.

I would recommend you try running the Vanilla version first to get used to the gameplay before you get into the mods, it will amke more sence that way. What I did was install the game, and all the updates then made a complete copy of the X3 Terran Conflict Folder to use for the modes later. It is as easy as a straight copy the only trick is keeping track of your saves, I can give you some tips on that later as well.

Regarding the Ships, the numbers are the Ship Class, M1 is the biggest - Carrier / Transport, then M2 Battle Ship, then it jumps around a bit, M3 4 5 6 7 etc, there is a real good site that can help with that as soon as I can find the link I will post it.

I am not feeling very well at the moment so I am going to hit the sac, I'll try to post link to other past threads and external links if I feel better in the AM.

Take care folks...

gigabyte
October 28th, 2010, 18:03
OK Rohan, here is a great link for reference material on Ships Weapons, Stations and Wares, this guy updates regularly and has put out a very mice Mod of his own.

http://x3t.roguey.co.uk/ships/index.php?inMod=0

As I said previously I recommend learning on the Vanilla, it will help you learn all the basics, and once you are comfortable then start adding Mods and scripts. There are a couple of Scripts that you might want sooner rather than later, I think Gary listed the most obvious, there is one other I really like on the AMS site, it is the Salvage Command Suite Ver 3.0 that really allows a full blown Salvage Option and is a good way to make money.

The other Script I recommend is the Cheat Collection - get it here - http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216691

I'll post more later and feel free to fire off any questions you may have I have quite a collection of X3 tips tricks and just a bit of experience fragging Xenon... - Live Long and Prosper.

rohan
October 28th, 2010, 19:23
gigabyte,
thanks for playing catch up on my questions ...

Lite it is, or will be.

And defrags and reboots with the updates - my usual practice. Presumably the updates are not cumulative ?

I was indeed planning to make a simple robocopy of each X3 folder set, as the first level of my backup system. Once I get into the swing of things, I guess I'll start using "Save Manager" and make more use of my imaging software (for one thing that covers both X3R and X3TC at the same time).

I'm starting to get the feeling that a mod is rather more than just a certain type of script, and have seen quite a few references to "fake patch". I've also read that (properly constructed) mods can be applied in any order, whereas you need to be careful about the order in which you apply a sequence of scripts. We have Plugin Manager for installing mods, but what would I do about scripts and fake patches ?

Normally, I'm very reluctant to take on board anything that's labelled Cheat, but I'm off now to browse those links you posted. One thing that hit me straight away is that Roguey's site lists stats from X3TC v2.0a, and also implies that his mod v1.2 is built to run on that version. Is that data relevant for v3.0, and is that mod compatible with v3.0 ?
thanks again,
Ro

gigabyte
October 29th, 2010, 15:31
Good plan, as far as the Save Game Manager I had some issues, it worked great for X3R but after an update I had problems with X3TC so I went back to my old practice of using 7Zip to just zip up all of the saves in place depending on which Mod I was using. There are a couple of things you need to keep in mind about Mods and scripts, the main difference is a Mod genrally changes a significant portion of the game and generally you can only run one Mod at a time. Most of the mods add sectors, and ships and often a full new story line so the saves from one mod will not load if you go back to the Vanilla or switch to another mod. There are a couple of exceptions, the PC0 Cockpit Mod can be used with most others, it simply adds Cockpits to most ships, I used it for awhile but dropped it awhile back because I like the extra realestate on the screen.

Now Scripts are a whole different matter, most scripts require that you use the Mod Manager to install them and they can work with most mods. The trick there is once you install the script you must activate the Script editor in game, that is a fairly painless process;

Start a game and select the Pilot menu, from the menu select Rename Pilot (giving youself a new name) use the name "Thereshallbewings" (exactally as shown cap T no spaces and watch the double L you have to type double letters slowly or the second will not appear).
The screen will freeze for a second and when you go back the name will not have changed, this means the editor is activated, you can now access manually activated scripts and change your name to anything you like.

As far as the cheat scripts, I am iffy on that to, I do like the Cheat Collection mainly as a time saver, I use the Dock Ship To function to clean up after a battle or salvage operation only because it would take many hours otherwise, damaged ships travel slower than my kids do housework, and I would never salvage any if I had to guide and escort them back to a shipyard everytime. I occationally use some of the other cheats as well when I am in a "Blow up anything" mood, it makes it easy to add the weapons I need and just go in guns blazing, those are just frustration relief sessions not saved games but still lots of fun.

The data on Rogney's site for the Vanilla game is accurate for all other versions, there are new ships and stations added in other mods but everything he lists for Vanilla will always be present, there just may be a few more in some mods. His own Mod is compatible with 2.7 but I have not tried it on the 3.0 pathc, I don't see why it would not work tho, just remember the Save game bit if you save any game in Vanilla or Rogneys it will not work with the other.

Regarding Save Games and Mods, here is what I do, I started with Vanilla and did all the missions once I finished I added a few cheats and had some fun, just opening saves and blowin stuff up...lol. Then when I added the AMS Mod I just went to the Save Game Folder and used 7Zip to zip all of the save games into a nice neat little zip file called Vanilla. I then deleted all of the Saves and started fresh with AMS, once I had a few saves in that mod I created an AMS zip, now when I switch mods I just go to the Save Game folder zip what ever is there to it's own zip and delete the originalm if I am going back to a mods I have saves for I unzip them and have at it.

Now for the Mods themselves two things, 1- keep a good fresh updated copy of the Vanilla game to work from. 2- once you figure out what scripts you like to use install them in that base vanilla game so they are in all other modded games you make.

The way I generally do it is I take my base game folder and do a full copy (Robo copy is excellent for this) naming the new folder something like X3TX-AMS, or X3TC-Transcend, etc. There are no registry entries in the install so you cna have ans many installs as you want and the folder name does not matter. The only kicker is they will all use the same save game folder os you need wither the save game manager or a process like I outline above to swith playing one mod to another. I have 5 mods and X3 TC shortcuts in my Games folder right now and it wourls great.

The process to install mods can differ from one to another so you have to follow the Readme's, most are pretty easy just unzip them into the main game folder or they have an installer, the tricky part is deciding how to run it, you can select a Mod from the start menu, just click the Select Mod Package button and Highlight the Mod, or use the Fake patch. If you are just running one Mod use the Start Menu it is easier and does not require manual work and kleeping track of the patch numbers, if you want to run the Cockpits and another Mod you will have to use the Fake Patch method. I did post a long tutorial on that some time ago take a peak for it, if you can't find it let me knwo I am sure I have the original document here on my Hard Drive and can send it complete with screen shots if you need it... this post is long enough now...

Enjoy and make sure you post some After Action Reports for us old guys, and Screen shots are nice as well - Live Long and Prosper.

rohan
October 29th, 2010, 20:30
Good Grief, Carruthers !

Thanks for all that, gigabyte. I'm afraid at first glance that seems like just so many words - I recognise the words but don't see the meaning. Anyway, I have another week before my copy of Gold arrives, so there's plenty of time to go through it all again. I did notice that there are two things that I'm still not clear on right now.

Saving games - I guess that, since all installs use the same folder for "saved games", all that's different about each game is stored here under a sub-folder whose name you choose when you save the game ? My point being, the rest of the X install is no different from all the other X installs, apart from whatever mods, scripts, patches, edits have been applied. Is this correct ?

And, "fake patches". I still have no idea why this name is given to some updates rather than calling them scripts or mods, or how to go about installing them. But I assume that, since a real patch is applied by running an installer outside the game (when it isn't running), the same might be true for a fake patch. Yes ?

Finally, a question about Cmod 2, based on the download details in the Egosoft forum. It says -

Main Install
Combat Mod 2 v 1.10 for XTM For Xtended
Combat Mod 2 v 1.09 for TXU For Vanilla

I grabbed all that, and finally found the XTM mod, but does TXU actually mean anything in the context of "vanilla" ? If there's a TXU "mod" I couldn't find it, or am I taking things too literally here ?

Thanks again for all that great input (input, input, need more input ...)
Ro

gigabyte
October 30th, 2010, 04:06
Good Grief, Carruthers !

Saving games - I guess that, since all installs use the same folder for "saved games", all that's different about each game is stored here under a sub-folder whose name you choose when you save the game ? My point being, the rest of the X install is no different from all the other X installs, apart from whatever mods, scripts, patches, edits have been applied. Is this correct ?

You are on the right track, it will be easy once you see the installation, here is the basic idea;
the program is installed by default in the X:\Program Files\Ergosoft folder (X is what ever drive you choose - I have all games on a seperate drive from my OS).

During the Install there is an Ergosoft Folder created in your My Documents folder (the actual path varies depending on your OS, but it is always in My Documents) in this folder there will be sub folders for X3 and under that there will be a Save Game Folder and a Screen shot folder, if you also install Terran Conflict the installer creates antoher folder inside this Ergosoft folder called X3 Terran Conflict, which contais sub folders for Saves and Screen shots. These folders will hold all saves, screen shots and various other settings such as your controller configurations. The game itself is installed as I mentioned above in the Program Files folder and you can copy that folder and all of it's contents anywhere you like and it will run just fine, but regardless of where you have the actual game running from the Saves and screen shots are always stored in the folder in your My Docs that is hard coded in the X3.exe file and can't be altered so that is why you have to watch when running more than one version or mod.



And, "fake patches". I still have no idea why this name is given to some updates rather than calling them scripts or mods, or how to go about installing them. But I assume that, since a real patch is applied by running an installer outside the game (when it isn't running), the same might be true for a fake patch. Yes ?

This one is king of tricky to explain, the "Fake Patch" method is just a workaround to install various things to the game, mainly larger mods that require pretty complicated installation, if you look at the folder structure once you install you will see it is kind of like FSX lots of sub folders and files, in the main folder there will be a set of numbered files with the extensions .CAT and .DAT, these are the official patches released by Ergosoft, (I think with Ver 2.7 the files went from 1-10). Now the "workaround part" - most mods can be installed one of two ways, the installer they provide which just unzips everything into the right folders and places the new .CAT and .DAT files into the Mod folder - this is the normal way to install a mod and if you are only installing one it is the easiest. Once you do the unzip bit, start the game and on the launcher screen you will see the Select a Mod button is now active, just click it and highlight the mod name that is in there and click OK, then you are good to go fire it up and go kick some butt. Now if you happen to find more than one compatible mod you want to run in the same game this will not work the launcher will only allow one mod at a time, soooo we use the fake patch - I posted a good tutorial earlier it should be on page 4 of this section. The short story on using a fake patch is you use those two files from the Mod folder and either copy them to the main or move them (I copy just so I can keep track) once they are in your main game folder change the name to the next number in line for the patches so if you see files numbered 01.cat and 01.dat thru 10.cat and 10.dat you would name the two you just placed there 11.cat & 11.dat, simple right... the only thing to watch for is, if you ever patch your game these files will be overwritten by the patch installer so you have to rename them before patching to move them up the food chain.



Finally, a question about Cmod 2, based on the download details in the Egosoft forum. It says -

Main Install
Combat Mod 2 v 1.10 for XTM For Xtended
Combat Mod 2 v 1.09 for TXU For Vanilla

I grabbed all that, and finally found the XTM mod, but does TXU actually mean anything in the context of "vanilla" ? If there's a TXU "mod" I couldn't find it, or am I taking things too literally here ?

Thanks again for all that great input (input, input, need more input ...)
Ro

OK I have not tried Comabt Mod for XTM or Vanilla, but I love the Xtended Mod... "MASSIVE COOL MAN".

Oh TXU is not a mod that is the Xtended community abbreviation, they have their own message board and a large modding group, you can find the link off of the main Ergosoft page I go there quite a bit, they can be abrupt if you ask dumb questions that have been answered hundreds of times before so search before you ask, but if you read through their forums there is a lot of great stuff there.

You are kind of jumping around a bit so here is a real quick and dirty timeline history so you know what fit swith what. You ordered the Gold version so you will get X3 Reunion and X3 Terran Conflict they are seperate games and will create their own folders, the first thing to keep in mind is the mods for each are generally not compatible, Reunion Mods will not work in Terran Conflict, and vice-versa, however many of the scripts will (always check but a great deal work in both versions if there is an update it will generally be posted in the same thread).

OK back to the Timeline, X3 Reunion is the earlier version and I recommend you give that a go first, I strongly recommend you get some extended stick time in it without mods - a few scripts are good but stay aways from the mods until you understand the game flow and have explored the races and sectors. For X3R (short for Reunion) there are a number of Mods XTM was the first real huge one (XTM is short for Xtended Mod), this thing was huge and actually is the basis for Terran Conflict. XTM introduced the Terran RAce and Sectors and a wide range of new ships, if you start with this you will miss some of the important things you need to learn from the original plot as they are changed by the mod, so start Vanilla.

I did start a thread on the various Mods it's back there somewhere, but there are just too many and I got side tracked, the other one I played a lot for X3R was New Horizens, very cool but a long learning curve as it changed the trading structure.

OK next comes Terran Conflict, a wide selection of Mods for this one, GT182 loves AMS and I am with him there, I also love the new Transcend II mod it is awsome, the only thing I say is again start with the Vanilla and get through a few plot missions, explore and get to knwo the flow of the game, then add a Mod and have at it.

Once you have the game installed and patched up let me know I can give you some good links to the mods and scripts I like and some tips I have collected for them, none of it will make any sense at this point but once you jave been in the cockpit for a few hours it will make things real interesting.

rohan
October 30th, 2010, 04:35
gigabyte,
roger on all that. Will take a stroll through here looking for your mods thread,
thanks again,
Ro