The Missus gets scammed.......

[luckydog]

The little lady left early this morning to get her hair done, get in some early Christmas shopping and get a wheel alignment on her Subaru Outback.

She gets home mid-afternoon and I went out to help her unload..........hair looked great, shortened to shoulder-length and layered ( she's two years younger than I and yet to get a grey hair)........lots of clothes and really cool "educational" toys and books for the grankiddos...........

......and four new tires (there was at least 10,000 miles of tread left on the old ones ).

"Nice tires", I say, bending down and checking the brand.....Michelin Primacy MV's.....

"Oh, yes", she says, handing me the tire receipt "and they filled them up with nitrogen for only $45.00 " !!

$700 bucks for the Michelins and, sure enough, $45 bucks for filling them with nitrogen. :isadizzy:
I KNEW I should've gone with her, but hair salons and christmas shopping aren't my thing.

I can accept her getting suckered on the tires.....but the nitrogen thing is something else.

just letting off steam..

LD

[Willy]

I'd be raising hell at the tire place and the Better Business Bureau.

[Wing_Z]

If you run those Michelin Primacy MV's for longer than an hour at over 155mph, they overheat.
Filling them with nitrogen prevents that.
It's a safety thing...

[Allen]

If you run those Michelin Primacy MV's for longer than an hour at over 155mph, they overheat.
Filling them with nitrogen prevents that.
It's a safety thing...

Were are you going 155mph at?

[djscoo]

Isn't plain old air like 80% Nitrogen anyway? And that isn't meant as an insult to the intelligence of the missus, but rather the audacity of the tire shop.

[Naismith]

P'raps they mistook her car for an SR-71, it is an easy mistake to make.

[Allen]

Isn't plain old air like 80% Nitrogen anyway? And that isn't meant as an insult to the intelligence of the missus, but rather the audacity of the tire shop.

"Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78.09% nitrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen), 20.95% oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen), 0.93% argon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon), 0.039% carbon dioxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_the_Earth%27s_atmosphere), and small amounts of other gases."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air


P'raps they mistook her car for an SR-71, it is an easy mistake to make.

http://www.baka-raptor.com/porn/thats_the_joke.jpg

[stansdds]

Nitrogen filled tires are supposed to be more temperature stable, have better tire life and fuel economy, and require less frequent re-inflation. Is there any hard evidence of such? Incredibly little. Nitrogen is very popular in car racing, but in that application it does make a difference as the tires get really hot.

[TARPSBird]

Luckydog, that must be a really nice Outback you have because I'd never spend $700 on tires, not to mention $45 to fill 'em with nitrogen. I think your Missus got taken advantage of by the tire dealer, she goes in for a routine alignment and they feed her a line of BS about her tires being in bad shape and etc. etc.

[Lionheart]

Nice!

I should put some nitrogen in my bike tires....! lol...

Goodness... I would have to put a tow strap on my car and link onto a bullet train to get my tires that hot so that I could use the Nitrogen effect, lololol...

LD, live and learn. Now she knows. No worries... I guess you cant return it, lol...

"Hi. My wife purchased your fantastic, safety nitrogen earlier last week, and its not working the way we thought. We monitor the tire pressures and temps pretty often and we saw no difference. We would like to know if we can get our air back and return the nitro.. "


:d

[Emil Frand]

Id suggest you keep the Kirby sales people away from her..........

[Navy Chief]

Id suggest you keep the Kirby sales people away from her..........


That is SO true!!!!! Hysterical!!!

[Wing_Z]

Were are you going 155mph at?

On the way back to the tyre shop...I'd imagine you'd ease back to 155 at the traffic roundabouts, for safety reasons... :d

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/CHARL_photos/SIlliness/Scooby.jpg

(Missus LD seen out shopping yesterday)

[GT182]

I've read the same as Stans... Nitrogen is better than air inflation. But $45 is a bit too much I'd say. Sounds like they used it too to inflate the credit card too.

LD, just go over and lift yer leg on the showroom floor's tires and get even. :bump:

[flaminghotsauce]

Luckydog, that must be a really nice Outback you have because I'd never spend $700 on tires, not to mention $45 to fill 'em with nitrogen. I think your Missus got taken advantage of by the tire dealer, she goes in for a routine alignment and they feed her a line of BS about her tires being in bad shape and etc. etc.I don't think that's terribly unreasonable for high quality tires. I spent $313 yesterday on two, and next week I 'm going to get the other two replaced on my work truck. But they ain't no Michelins.... I buy 10 ply tires due to the roads I drive on.

I had a conversation with a lady that drives a Honda CRV and she claimed her tires came from the factory with nitrogen in 'em. I asked another guy I know that has one and his didn't. Must be a girl thing. My wife won't talk to salesmen or phone calls asking for donations. She hasn't said no in twenty years. That's good and bad....:jump:

[safn1949]

2000 explorer,5.0 AWD.4 tires,235/75/15's....$400,mounted,balanced with lifetime rotate and balance.:wavey:

[rhumbaflappy]

"Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78.09% nitrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen), 20.95% oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen), 0.93% argon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon), 0.039% carbon dioxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_the_Earth%27s_atmosphere), and small amounts of other gases."


I'm sorry to have contributed to small amounts of other gases.

:icon29:

Dick

[jmig]

Tires that good and expensive LD. I would be careful about.....err...raising a leg beside them. ;)

[Tom Clayton]

One atmosphere is appx. 14.7 psi, so inflating to even 45 psi with nitrogen still leaves close to 25% air unless the space inside the tire is purged first. Give them this fact and then ask them to justify the cost. If they say they purged the tires, ask them to explain the process.

[Allen]

One atmosphere is appx. 14.7 psi, so inflating to even 45 psi with nitrogen still leaves close to 25% air unless the space inside the tire is purged first. Give them this fact and then ask them to justify the cost. If they say they purged the tires, ask them to explain the process.

+ 1 for the good post and....

http://howiwastetime.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/oh-snap-chart.jpg
:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump:

[Trans_23]

Four tires for my F-150 cost $800 last year. I would have jumped for joy getting them for $700. BTW, the place I bought mine from offered nitrogen for $5 a tire. I too wondered how they got all the air out before they put the nitro in.

[jmig]

One atmosphere is appx. 14.7 psi, so inflating to even 45 psi with nitrogen still leaves close to 25% air unless the space inside the tire is purged first. Give them this fact and then ask them to justify the cost. If they say they purged the tires, ask them to explain the process.

Not really Tom. Air pressure is measured in psig or "gauge" versus psia or "absolute." In gauge 14.7 is 0. So the 45 lbs gauge is really 59.7 lbs absolute pressure.

Also, consider air is almost 70% Nitrogen. So the small amount of oxygen in the tire at atmosphere is only 21% Oxygen. So your actual O2 content is more like 6.8%. (14.7/45= 32.6% X .21= 6.8%)

Still, I think it is B.S. to charge $45 for nitrogen in tires. Like you, I fail to see the benefits.

[Roadburner440]

There is no way to get all of the air out of the tire or "purge" as is being asked. For you to create a vacuum inside of the tire would mean the bead would get broken from the rim. As far as the nitrogen itself goes I am schooled in this on aircraft so will give backround straight from the Navy's aircraft tire/wheel manual.

The reason that aircraft tires are serviced with nitrogen is not because of their heating/cooling properties but rather the lack of water vapor. This prevents the water vapor in the tire from freezing at altitude, and piercing the tire upon landing. In tubless aircraft tires (like you find on most cars as well) the rim is vented (where you see little green dots on the outside of the tire) because Nitrogen naturally permeates rubber. Without said green dots to vent the nitrogen out of the ply's you could get pockets of nitrogen between them causes blowouts once the sidewall is weakened enough.

In cars the only practical use and excuse I see for Nitrogen is in auto racing. Such as NASCAR/F1 and such where you need to be able to predict that the tires will heat up in X amount of time to X pressure, and so on.. When we just got our Trailblaze to replace the GMC we had the Acura dealer tried selling us this stuff, and I must tell you the presentation they give is impressive.. You do not have to check the tire pressure for a year (their claim), and even went as far as telling me that a Nitrogen molecule is bigger than regular air.. Me of course servicing aircraft tires for a living when I came back with all of the above facts (as well as the stuff about regular air being 80% Nitrogen) they really did not know what to say. All I know is that if this stuff did not leak out of rubber we would not have the inspections, and stuff on the aircraft we do. Cause if it flies you check the pressure daily, and if it doesn't fly there is an actual conditional to check the tire pressure every 7 days... So if this stuff was good for 1 whole year like they said I can save a lot of work on my part. Just makes me mad when they try to rip people off like this... Same with that Autobutler detailing junk. Now keep in mind this is my opinion based on the facts I know through my own training.. If anyone does have scientific evidence to the contrary I'd be interested to see it. As long as you keep your tires serviced to the proper pressure though it will not matter if you have nitrogen or air though.

[CADFather]

The Nitrogen vs. Atmosphere for tire inflation comes up every so often on the motorcycle forums I belong to. From some of the arguments I've seen there regarding it's usage in racing I gather Nitrogen doesn't expand as much as air as it heats up so the tire pressures remain relatively constant and predictable. That's all fine and well for racing but not really relevant for street use. The other selling point that the proponents use is less frequent need to add air to the tire or even to check the pressure. Now I don't know about you guys and your ground vehicles of choice but my car and truck tires get checked at least once a week and along with all the fluids every time fuel is added. My bike tires get checked for air and damage everyday before I leave on it. Anal yes, but I only have 1* (one Asterisk) and the tires are the only (hopefully) contact point with the road that I have.

I guess it comes down to whether you can justify the expense of having those little green caps or not, I don't think I could give up my little chrome skull caps, though.:wiggle: Oh, and I litterlly just bought 4 10 ply tires for the back of the wifes 1-ton Ford for $25 bucks right before I logged on the forum. They were takeoffs from a buddies shop that does four wheel drive conversions and came off a brand new F-350 that is getting new swampers, :applause:. Go, ME.

CAD

[Willy]

Maybe in more populated areas, but around here in rural, in the sticks Tennessee if your tires are low on pressure, the only thing that's available to put in them is compressed air.

[stuartcox]

I put helium in mine...so I can really fly!

[Wing_Z]

Meh.
I bet when you go racing around corners, they squeal in a funny little Donald Duck voice...

[Tom Clayton]

John, here's the math in my head... Equal pressure in the tire (zero psi) is one atmosphere. 15psi should then roughly double the mass of air inside the tire, or two atmospheres. So at 45 psi, you've roughly quadupled the total mass of air. Granted, with the total of gasses not nitrogen, you then end up with 25% of 22%, or 5.5% other than Nitrogen. Deflate the tire and reinflate it back to 45psi, and you reduce that by another 75% with each cycle.

But if the average tire sales man knows that, they're overqualified for their job!

[jmig]

John, here's the math in my head... Equal pressure in the tire (zero psi) is one atmosphere. 15psi should then roughly double the mass of air inside the tire, or two atmospheres. So at 45 psi, you've roughly quadupled the total mass of air. Granted, with the total of gasses not nitrogen, you then end up with 25% of 22%, or 5.5% other than Nitrogen. Deflate the tire and reinflate it back to 45psi, and you reduce that by another 75% with each cycle.

But if the average tire sales man knows that, they're overqualified for their job!

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