Poll: How do you fly the Pacific Northwest?

[mmann]

As you may know (or not), I have been developing many heliports and floatplane bases mainly for Vancouver Island in British Columbia. I had initially intended this project to work only with Orbx's FTX NA Blue PNW.

Yesterday I thought I would see how much work would be involved to adjust my scenery to fit a plain FSX setup (SP2 version). Well it was readily apparent that I would have to start virtually all over again! The lighthouse stations were sitting in water as were some of the floatplane bases.

I wouldn't mind changing the scenery to be compliant with plain FSX and/or FSX with Ultimate Terrain X Canada, if enough people are flying this area with that type of setup. So I am hoping this poll will clarify the issue for me.

Many thanks, Mike Mann

[vora]

I think that FTX PNW will be a kind of standard for this particular region.
Even if you don't care about PFJ, NRM or Tongass... PNW is simply *the* scenery for low flying bush pilots, and that's the audience you're aiming at with floatplane bases, I guess.

[Brian_Gladden]

My rig doesn't have the horsepower to run PNW. It has enough trouble with Ultimate Terrain. I'd love to see some more Bush type stuff in that neck of the woods.

[mmann]

My rig doesn't have the horsepower to run PNW. It has enough trouble with Ultimate Terrain. I'd love to see some more Bush type stuff in that neck of the woods.

Which is why I am running this poll. Not everyone has enough computer to handle PNW and many won't have the dollars to buy it.

My computer can handle PNW if I stay away from the big cities, which is why I develop scenery located out in the boonies. When I was testing the Grouse Mountain helipad I created, my frame rates would drop in half every time I pointed the helicopter towards Vancouver!

[OleBoy]

Orbx does seem to point the way lately. And FSX is what enthusiasm (your cash) is put into it. The horse power Brain mentions being the key to any simmers visual enjoyment. My opinion if you are a developer of any sort, develop what works for you and don't worry about everyone's machine specs.
.....You wont get enough input regardless where the polls are done.

In all respect

[mmann]

Orbx does seem to point the way lately. And FSX is what enthusiasm (your cash) is put into it. The horse power Brain mentions being the key to any simmers visual enjoyment. My opinion if you are a developer of any sort, develop what works for you and don't worry about everyone's machine specs.
.....You wont get enough input regardless where the polls are done.

In all respect

But some developers are more accommodating then others. For example; Don Grovestine who put out excellent versions of Comox CYQQ and Victoria CYYJ, made his projects compatible with FS9 (plain and UT Canada) as well as FSX (plain, UTX Canada and Orbx PNW).

[txnetcop]

Actually TechCorp just started back up for the year as they break in the summer so I have had access to tons of various PCs to evaluate. I put FSX with my PNW on a budget i5 that cost $760. I set the lowest settings possible on PNW and still got great results and very pretty landscape minus some visual and and sound effects.

This is a bare bones unit put out by ACER Computers and has these components which you can get at newegg.com for the same price or lower:

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115215 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215)

ECS P55H-A(1.0) LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813135244 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135244)

COOLER MASTER Centurion 534 RC-534-KKN2-GP Black Aluminum & Mesh bezel / SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119106 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119106)

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817139005 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005)

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822136319 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319)

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/272641-31-budget-build#) Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231193 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193)

SPARKLE SX98GT1024D3GVP GeForce 9800 GT 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187086)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187086

LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Writer - Bulk - LightScribe Support - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827106333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106333)

No OS comes with this unit so we added
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754) $99.00

When I go back down to Austin this week I will send some pics to this thread. It was very surprising how nice it still looked and flew even with a bare bones system.
Ted

[falcon409]

Over the time I was doing scenery I realized that it can be a double edged sword. There are so many different scenery/mesh/terrain packages available now that irregardless how you design your scenery package, there will be some who have rwys that are floating in the air, houses that are sunk into the terrain and so on, while others say it looks perfect.

As most have already mentioned, Orbyx PNW will, hands down, be considered the standard because of the workmanship and detail seen in their scenery. It's very apparent when flying into a PNW area from an area covered by GEX/UTX scenery. . .it's like night and day, no comparison. The downside to PNW is the cost involved and the thousands of different systems owned by the FS faithful. Not everyone can fly it because of FPS constraints and many can't afford it because it isn't a one pay and fly scenery. After you buy the base scenery, then there are addons that cost as well, I'd love to have those additional sceneries to add to what I have, but it's a money hog I can't afford.

I think this poll will only clarify that there are too many variables to help with your decision, lol. Ultimately, you'll end up having to choose one or the other, but not all.:salute:

[Dain Arns]

The result are still quite early, but I believe the the poll is already speaking for itself at this point.
At the time I wrote this, 3 out of 4 Pacific Northwest fliers apparently use FTX-PNW.

[spotlope]

It's been a long time since I flew a bare-bones FSX with no addons, but as I recall the water data for Canada was simply horrible. The US fared better, but for some reason MS weren't able to get their hands on accurate Canadian hydro data, which is why you're seeing such a vast difference in the location of the water. You could always go an extra step and do some landclass and vector work to add in the appropriate water bodies for non-FTX/UT users, I suppose.

[mmann]

It's been a long time since I flew a bare-bones FSX with no addons, but as I recall the water data for Canada was simply horrible. The US fared better, but for some reason MS weren't able to get their hands on accurate Canadian hydro data, which is why you're seeing such a vast difference in the location of the water. You could always go an extra step and do some landclass and vector work to add in the appropriate water bodies for non-FTX/UT users, I suppose.

To say that "the water data for Canada was simply horrible" is almost an understatement! Which makes me think that the people flying this area with no addons need my scenery a great deal more than those with FTX PNW or UTX.

[Sieggie]

Your poll forgot a mode I would think most of us poor simmers are using, PNW free section with the rest default FSX. If you start doing things in the vast free Orbx area that will pull people into the hi res world of PNW from Orbx slowly. I love the free area but need time to save up for the Pay areas which I will eventually fall prey to.

Just my thoughts.

Dave

[mmann]

Your poll forgot a mode I would think most of us poor simmers are using, PNW free section with the rest default FSX. If you start doing things in the vast free Orbx area that will pull people into the hi res world of PNW from Orbx slowly. I love the free area but need time to save up for the Pay areas which I will eventually fall prey to.

Just my thoughts.

Dave

This option (PNW Demo) was not included because I was under the impression that the coverage area for the Demo includes only the Olympic Peninsula, which is south of where my project covers.

[vora]

IMHO bush pilots have to be a picky bunch when it comes scenery... flying in low 'n' slow, following water lines and land features rather than using radio navigation.

In this regard "FSX only" with global warming already in place is a big no-no.

So, in this particular region, it means either "UTX Canada + UTX USA + GEX USA/Can"...
... or simply "FTX PNW" (which also includes a better mesh and reworked default airfields).

I think I know what's the better choice commercially.

PS: I realize that a lot of American flyers might already have UTX USA and GEX USA/Can, but I'm a Euro (flying UTX/GEX Europe).

[Dain Arns]

This option (PNW Demo) was not included because I was under the impression that the coverage area for the Demo includes only the Olympic Peninsula, which is south of where my project covers.


Demo is only for the Olympic Peninsula, miles away from Vancouver Island. :mixedsmi:

[warchild]

Its a hard call between UTX and PNW. Odd thing is when i reinstalled them my framerates improved. The bottom line however is that a great many people cant afford either utx or pnw and will be flying with defaulr scenery. We here are kinda like the Trojans of flight sim. Pure simmers. We arent exactly a representation of the average buyer. If you ask me, I'd recommend developing for the default terrain. That would reach the most people and garner the most sales.. If you develop for PNW or UTX, your own sales will be dictated by the number of people who already own those pieces of software.. As many of us that own those as there is, that would still mean that you would only be looking at a percentage of an already existing percentage of the entire market. We'd love ya for it, but i'm not certain it would do you a lot of good..

[vora]

Pam, you're surely right that the "naked" version covers the biggest audience but how many of them would be interested in floatplane bases along Vancouver island?
IMHO the audience for such special kind of scenery is mostly already using PNW or UTX.

BTW: are the shorelines of UTX Canada so different to PNW's? AFAIK Holger Sandmann not only works for Orbx but also had a hand in the UTX series (plus he is a BC resident).

[mmann]

The shorelines between FTX PNW and UTX are not that different. On the other hand default FSX is not even close. It is almost as if Microsoft was running out of time and just used the same data they used for FS9.

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi guys,

actually, the FSX default water data (oceans, rivers, and lakes) for Canada are often worse than they were for FS9. That's because ACES switched data providers and the new one was primarily made for car navigation systems and thus much more biased towards urban areas and road corridors. In other words, FS9 data were coarse but consistent while FSX is nicely detailed in human landscapes but very poor in wilderness areas (i.e., most of British Columbia).

Ultimate Terrain and ORBX water files were made from different but quite similar sources. If you have an account for the ORBX forums you can see how well they match here: http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=19057.0

Cheers, Holger

P.S.: as for the original question: Mike, why don't you publish your project for one setup first and then decide whether to proceed with compatibility patches based on the feedback and requests you receive?

[OleBoy]

Hi Holger,

That's a huge difference in appearance. Much better than the competitor.

I know this is OT a tad, but I notice the highway lines are missing. Was there no way to implement them? They sure would look better if they were seen

[Naki]

I wouldnt even be flying in the PNW if I didnt have Orbx PNW

[mmann]

I have been working today on Courtenay Airpark (CAH3) in straight FSX. Oddly enough, only the default FSX scenery includes the Airpark Lagoon which both FTX PNW and UTX Canada missed! Although to be fair the FSX default lagoon was actually a perennial lake and it was the wrong shape.

Working with the default scenery I was able to create a water polygon and add the lagoon properly (correcting the surrounding shoreline as well). The best part was that I was able to put in a shoreline vector that matched the rest of the shoreline exactly. Orbx must use a custom shoreline for FTX PNW because I could never get a vector to match it, so it looked real bad!

[BeaverDriver]

PNW, Tongass, PFJ when it's out. I do have FSG, GEX and UTX, but I suspect they are overridden with Tongass and PNW, if that matters. Anyway, much of it flown in helicopters, but not exclusively.

Thanks :)

[Bushpounder]

Using just FSX for now, but will soon purchase the whole series of sceneries in that area. Nice stuff!!

Don

[pilottj]

yeah I held off on PNW for a while, but eventually got it, and I am really happy i did, it is so wonderful to be able to fly over scenery that really adds so much life to the sim with real definition of farms, towns, roads...etc. I got Tongass too after I read that Pacific Fjords will mesh together with it. And I was really excited to find out that my home area in Northern California will be done too. The default 'wine country' is well, what it is and definately deserves to be upgraded with the Orbx treatment. lol and this will be about a year before it gets out so will just have to enjoy PNW and the Fjords :jump:

I find Bill's Epic is a great tourer for the first time there if you want to zip around and check out all the little grass strips, then after familiar with the territory, then hop in somthing slower like the Cub.

Walter Sutton's farm and the A2A Cub are a perfect match.