How do you hover the bloody choppers?

[Sid2008]

Does anyone have a rule of thumb that seem to work consistently?

[falcon409]

I can hover without any problems, but I won't even venture to post my technique, because you're about to get enough other explanations here that mine will seem mundane, lol.:salute:

[James]

I cut the throttle and do a gentle pull up, usually 1-1.5 Gs, and just wait for it to decelerate. Then it just takes a little jockeying, but it does the trick.

[Dain Arns]

The most important thing to remember about hovering...
Hovering is like riding a unicycle on a frozen lake, covered with thin ice, while juggling flaming chainsaws, that are all running at full speed, while surrounded by rabid and ravenous wolverines.
Easy huh? :icon_lol:
(Thank you Brad Moreland for that analogy)


Okay.
Get it light on the skids first.
Usually between 50 to 60% on the Torque gauge.
Not enough to lift off.
Then, very, very, slowly add more collective. (Throttle for you fixed wing guys :p: )
Lift slightly off the ground.

Be prepared to add in some tail rotor to counteract yaw.

Don't fight the stick.
Small movements. Small movements.
Then practice holding it in place.
Usually on the centerline of a runway is good because you can see if you are moving in the hover, if the line is moving.

Now here's the pitch...
If you really want to learn, come on over to www.hovercontrol.com (http://www.hovercontrol.com)
We have folks online that are willing to help.
We use TeamSpeak 3, and don't let the FSInn server interface scare you.
They'll help you with setting that up as well via TS3, and it is not hard on any system's resources.
Folks come over to HC and learn to hover, and transition to and from a hover.
HC has some training scenery available for a couple airports.

[Tim-HH]

If you use a helicopter with an advanced flightmodel you really have to practice a lot in order to maintain a stable hover.

The FAA has published a free PDF-handbook that is very helpful to understand how a helicopter works: Rotorcraft Flying Handbook (http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/) Especially chapter 9 is interesting if you want to learn to hover.
I try to master the Dodosim Bell 206 for several month now and it's still very challenging to hover. But it's nevertheless a lot of fun :jump:

Greetings
Tim

[Cirrus N210MS]

if you wanna learn to fly helicopters you can find me at http://www.iflyonline.com/ where i fly alot of helicopters


Just Ask for Mike N210MS

Plus we have a second user who flys them aswell his name is steve he likes the EH101 :salute:

ill be on after work (3:00) AZ time today stop by if you wanna chat ill see what i can do for you on the helicopter stuff

[Dain Arns]

Right.
Practice is the key.
But I think operating rotorcraft is the most fun I've had in all my years of flight simming.
It makes all of the practice worth it when you can transition from flight to hover, and then land on a small remote pad like the ones next to the fire towers in PNW...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b162/Leorstef/2010-7-6_22-49-50-245.jpg

[Wing_Z]

Question for you pro-hoverers: what view do you use on finals?

[Cirrus N210MS]

i land full vc

plus i fly in vc sept for taking photos

[Dain Arns]

Question for you pro-hoverers: what view do you use on finals?

I have TrackIR and stay in VC view.
I can do it without TrackIR, but TIR sure helps a lot with the ability to look quickly forward and to the side to see how you are centered in the 'H' circle or box.

Having the zoom at .7 helps, it gives you 'peripheral vision'.
I know some folks switch to .5 zoom when landing.

[SkippyBing]

Not sure how much this'll help as I've never had the patience to master hovering in FSX, however.
In real life it's a question of using all the available visual references to judge if you're moving up/down left/right forwards/backwards and then compensate with the controls. How? Well pick an object close in and one a reasonable distance away ahead of the aircraft and observe how they move in relation to each other, chose another couple of objects on the beam to help with the fore/aft movement.
Over time it becomes second nature and you suddenly realise you're sitting in the hover watching someone else do an auto-rotation to land and judging his technique without thinking about it. At the same time when it all goes to a ball of chalk, fall back on the basics and use the above technique (it's called the backdrop effect).

[Wing_Z]

Flying (me as a passenger) in a real helo, it's clear you can have good situational awareness.
Not having all those cues available in the sim possibly makes it much more difficult.

I actually went out and bought a "realistic" RC helo to see if it is that hard to fly.
It is...spare parts are not an issue in FS, and so I'm back in the sim.

*Sigh* perhaps TrackIR is indicated, after all.
Thank you Dain, I would not have thought so.

[SkippyBing]

Wing_Z,

I know what you mean, I don't think there's a part left on my RC Helo that's original!
The other advantage with real life is you can use your peripheral vision which start to play its part as you get more experience. I've tried track IR a few times but it feels really odd turning your head one way and your eyes another, just a personal thing I guess!

[PRB]

I can hover without any problems, but I won't even venture to post my technique, because you're about to get enough other explanations here that mine will seem mundane, lol.:salute:

Please, post your mundane method! I may be able to handle mundane, but juggling demon posessed chainsaws, on fire (on thin ice), may be beyond my abilities! :icon_lol:

I'm always practicing with the helicopters, but I still have a hard time in the hover. FS helicopters seem to insist upon flying backwards without significant forward force on the control stick, and I can never detect the transition to backwards motion until it's pretty significant. Of course I could if I was looking down, but if I do that I can't see the horizon... Expanding the zoom factor to .50 (or even .30) seems to help some, as it provides a wider field of vision.

[Roadburner440]

To practice hovering I advise you do as others have suggested and do so on an open runway. Most importantly though be sure you clear out all the weather (especially wind!).. As it is hard enough to hover without any type of wind component. I still have not mastered landing on platforms, but can land pretty well on runways, or H's marked on taxiways/grass areas. The oil playforms in FSX just do not give you enough room to learn.

Is cool people have experimented with the RC heli's. I have always wanted one, but realized it would quickly become a money pit from me crashing it. They now have actual turbo-shaft powered RC heli's that are extremely expensive, but just like the real thing.

[Slund]

Having to hold forward pressure on the joystick to maintain a hover (no movement backwards) can be an issue. Many of us who fly helicopters on a regular basis have modified there joystick centering spring so that it's much lighter. I have used small zip ties to compress 3 of the spring coils. It's not perfect and the ties can/do slip around a bit but for the most part it works well. Without a heavy centering spring you can easily find the balance point of the helicopter and it makes the small movements required to maintain a stable hover much easier.

[Roadburner440]

You know Slund I never thought about that.. Is a pretty good trip and will have to try that next time I go flying.. Thank you!

[Tako_Kichi]

I install the 'helitrim' gauge in all my choppers. It allows you to use fixed wing trim and lets you ease off on the stick pressure for forward flight

[Dain Arns]

Very good points, Roadburner440 and Slund.
Yes, definitely practice 0 wind until you get the hang of it.
I'll add, when coming in to land, its just like fixed wing, into the wind.
And that's an advantage rotorcraft have.
You aren't restricted by a runway direction if landing directly to a pad. ;)

To build on Slund's recommendation.
For me, it got easier with a force feedback stick.
Then I had some 'feel' to the inputs I was making.
Plus I added FS Force 2.0, a force feedback addon that is much better with the forces than the MS default ones.
FS Force also comes a helicopter profile, and a trim system which is nice for long flights, by reducing the forward stick pressure in flight.

[TeaSea]

I cheat and go to half speed.....



:redf:




Then later, I fling the joystick across the room. That seems to help.

[djscoo]

I think using a chopper with forgiving flight dynamics is helpful as well. The Alphasim S-55, now freeware is a great one to start on. I don't know if it is realistic, but it was a really helpful starter for me.

[Cirrus N210MS]

UN4a2vUR9sc

video sound is geting fixed:salute:

[PRB]

I install the 'helitrim' gauge in all my choppers. It allows you to use fixed wing trim and lets you ease off on the stick pressure for forward flight

A helicopter trim gauge! Cool, I'm off to look for that one.

You know, in fixed wing planes, there is a lot of variation between a perfect landing and a crash. There are all manner of bad landings you can do and still walk away, so you don't have to learn to be precise. In a helicopter, you either make a perfect landing or you crash, nothing in between! So you have to learn to be precise.

[Wing_Z]

Y'know...ALL helicopter landings are controlled crashes! ;)
But I find it's waay easier to land (and hover) into say an 8 kt headwind than none.
I've done the force feedback thing and it does make a world of difference, not to have to lean on the spring the whole time.
But I'm very interested in FS Force...not exactly cheap at $35...Dain what are the advantages, in practice?

[Tako_Kichi]

A helicopter trim gauge! Cool, I'm off to look for that one.
I just tried to add a link for you but for some reason it didn't work.

Search the flightsim.com files area for 'helitrim.zip'.

It says it's for FS2002 but it still works fine in both FS9 and FSX.

[PRB]

I just tried to add a link for you but for some reason it didn't work.

Search the flightsim.com files area for 'helitrim.zip'.

It says it's for FS2002 but it still works fine in both FS9 and FSX.

Thanks, Larry. I found it at AVSIM. I like it a lot! The one I found at AVSIM, also named helitrim.zip, said, in the readme, that it's only for FSX. Maybe he made a new version, for FSX only.

[Lionheart]

I'll have to try that HeliTrim. Sounds like what I have needed for ages.

I use TrackIR and it does help, but I really need to spend more time just hovering. That is an art unto itself. I agree with TeaSea. Throwing the joystick can lessen the tension buildup, but the X-52 is a bit expensive to replace...



Bill

[Cirrus N210MS]

5sad6YcFiwY

more videos to come!

[roger-wilco-66]

I'm tempted to quote a "classic" description of helicopter pilots and flying by "Badwater Bill" Phillips:





I think I’m about to retire from flying helicopters. It was fun for
the last 30 years but I’m lucky to be here. This is what I’ve learned
from two thousand hours in Hueys, a few hundred in Robies and about 50
in other things like MD-500’s, Rangers and a Mini-500. It is how a
truly feel:

Anything that screws it’s way into the sky flies according to
unspiritual principles.

You never want to sneak up behind an old high-time helicopter pilot
and clap your hands. He will instantly dive for cover and most likely
whimper...then get up and kick your butt.

There are no old helicopters laying around airports like you see old
airplanes. There is a reason for this. Come to think of it, there
are no old high-time helicopter pilots hanging around airports either
so don’t worry about the above.

You can always tell a helicopter pilot in anything moving, a train, an
airplane, a car or a boat. They never smile, they are always
listening to the machine and they always hear something they think is
not right.

Helicopter pilots fly in a mode of intensity, actually more like
«spring loaded», while waiting for pieces of their ship to depart.

Flying a helicopter at any altitude over 500 feet is considered an act
of boldness and should be avoided.

Flying a helicopter at any altitude or condition that precludes a
landing in less than 20 seconds is considered a cavalier and unsafe
practice.

Remember in a Robinson you have about 1 second to lower the collective
in an engine failure before it becomes unrecoverable. Once you’ve
failed this maneuver the machine flies about as well as a Lycoming
strapped to your back.

When your wings are leading, lagging, flapping, precessing and moving
faster than your fuselage there’s something unnatural going on. You
should not attempt to fly.

While hovering a Robinson, if you start to sink a bit, you pull up on
the collective while twisting the throttle, push with your left foot
(more torque) and move the stick left (more translating tendency) to
hold your spot. If you now need to stop rising, you do the opposite
in that order. Sometimes in wind you do this many times each second.
Don’t you think that’s a strange way to fly?

I commonly call an autorotation my «Anvil-One» approach. If all is
optimized you get a glide about like an anvil in freefall.

180 degree autorotations are a violent and aerobatic maneuver in my
opinion and should be avoided.

For Huey’s and Robinsons: You never want to feel a sinking feeling in
your gut (low «g» pushover) while flying a two bladed under slung
teetering rotor system. You are about to do a snap-roll to the right
and crash.

If everything is working fine on your helicopter consider yourself
temporarily lucky. Something is about to break.

Badwater Bill

[michael davies]

I think using a chopper with forgiving flight dynamics is helpful as well. The Alphasim S-55, now freeware is a great one to start on. I don't know if it is realistic, but it was a really helpful starter for me.

Most of AS FDEs are pretty forgiving, too forgiving for many but the S-55 is about the most stable there is, if you cant hover that then, well take up fire eating or something LOL.

Joystick set up is everything, as are forces and null points, realsims sliders need to be max but null sliders need to be about 5%, joystick top should not move more than 1-2" sq, patience is also a virtue, many people expect helos to perform like fly by wire fighters, yanking the stick here and there, take your time ans do things slow and as djscoo says, get a FDE thats stable, then move up to more complex ones when you get better.

Best

Michael

[Dain Arns]

Y'know...ALL helicopter landings are controlled crashes! ;)
But I find it's waay easier to land (and hover) into say an 8 kt headwind than none.
I've done the force feedback thing and it does make a world of difference, not to have to lean on the spring the whole time.
But I'm very interested in FS Force...not exactly cheap at $35...Dain what are the advantages, in practice?

Eeep! I don't remember paying that much for it, think I got it for $25 a couple years ago. :redf:
Maybe it was on sale.
Well, I do use it every flight, so I guess it'll like FSUIPC, you get your money's worth.

The profiles create better responses than the generic MS default FF, which is just applied to any/all sim aircraft, IMHO.
Plus FSF adds some additional forces.
I don't know how to really describe it other than "precise".
Plus with the way FSF scales up the forces by speed for example, you get a 'feel' for an aircraft, like something you do in real world.
Also with FSF, the MD500 'feels' light, the CH-53 very heavy.
With the Dodo206 you can feel the lag the real 206 has in its controls.
(Dodo added that with the last update I believe)

On fixed wings the buffeting before stall makes FSF worth it alone.
You can feel gradual onset of the buffeting before the stall.
I don't even have to look at the airspeed gauge, I just bring the nose down and add power now.

Having that 'feel' make a world of difference, to me.
I remember how much easier "Grand Prix Legends" got for me when I invested in a FF wheel. :icon_lol:

[Sid2008]

Thank you all for your rousing replies. I am going to be practicing my heli flying in Africa. I recently purchased African Airfield Adventures and I do love it.
Thanks again.
Sid

[falcon409]

I defer back to my original post Sid. . .I think you now have everything you need to practice, practice, practice, lol. Heli's are a lot of fun to fly. . .mainly because you can get into areas that are totally inaccessible by fixed wing aircraft and that can open up an entirely new world of flight. Enjoy!!:salute:

[Wing_Z]

and very informative, many thanks.