A little something for the grease monkeys among us

[OBIO]

As I previously posted, Deb and I recently acquired a 1994 Plymouth Grand Voyager LE minivan. Overall, in surprisingly good shape. But as is the case with any 16 year old vehicle with 200 thousand miles, there are some things that need attended to. One of those things is an oil leak.

This afternoon, I backed the van most of the way out of the garage....left the nose of the van in the garage so that the wheels would still be on the nice cement floor...so that I would have room to lay on the floor and look under the nose of the van to look for the leak.

When I first shined my flash light on the oil filter, there was a large drop of oil on the lower face of it. I wiped it off and began searching/feeling around the base of the filter to see if it was leaking around the seal. Dry as a bone all around. Looked up the face of the engine block to see if the oil was running down from a leaky valve cover gasket. Dry as a bone. I looked at the oil filter again...and there was a large drop of oil back on it. I wiped it off and noticed that the paint in that area was loose. I used my finger nail to flake the paint off...and found a rust hole in the oil filter. And that is where the oil was leaking from.

Now, I am not a professional mechanic, but I have busted more than a few knuckles under the hood of vehicles doing tune ups, engine swaps and engine rebuilds. This is the first time that I have ever seen an oil filter with a rust hole. As soon as I do the oil change on the van this coming week, that leak will be fixed....just glad it wasn't the oil pan gasket or a valve cover gasket.

Now I just need to find where the transmission fluid is leaking from...and I fear that it may be the front seal....well, what would be the front seal if the transmission weren't mounted sideways in the van. That is a fix I am most definitely not looking forward to having to do.

OBIO

[JoeW]

Obio .......
Next question is ...... why did the filter rust? Is there water in the oil? How long has it been since it was changed? I'd look at both of these questions. Oil filters don't normally rust.
I have my shade tree hat now.

[Roadburner440]

I have never heard of a rust hole in an oil filter either. Usually they are coated/painted. So it must have been on there for awhile. That sucks about the transmission leak though as those are the worst.. Since it is front wheel drive I would hope that it is the pan seal that is bad. You can usually get the pan seal/filter kit for around $20 from your local parts store. I do not think it would be around the rear main area though. Usually that is where engine oil leaks from. Unless it is leaking from around the input yoke or the torque converter.. I would start looking at the pan seal, or around the seals where the CV joints go into the transaxle. Those would be a pain to change though.

[OBIO]

The oil filter and oil are old....the oil is way way black. Will be getting changed this week and the oil system will be given a treatment of Seafoam engine cleaner. Run the new cheap oil/Seafoam for a few hundred miles to clean out the gunk and sludge, then do another oil change with Valvoline Max Life for high mileage engines. Seems like a waste to run new oil for just a few hundred miles, but I want to clean out as much of the old nasty stuff as possible.

The tranny leak....I was reading in the Haynes Repair Manual for the van and it states that if the van were parked for an extended period of time (6 months or longer) that the main tranny oil pump seal may dry and shrink...thus causing a leak. The manual suggests adding an anti-leak/seal conditioner to the tranny to see if that will get the seals to swell back up and stop the leak. Will go that route first. If it doesn't stop the leak, then I will continue with more drastic measures.

I plan on dropping the tranny pan soon (or as soon as the funds are available) to replace the tranny filter, locking torque converter module and tranny fluid. The tranny filter and gasket are available in a kit for $12. The torque converter module is around $14.

So far there isn't any expensive fixes to do...just a handful of fairly easy, relatively cheap maintenance things and fixes to do. Well, replacing the tires will be a bit more expensive, but there is a place not far from here that carries off-brand tires for very good prices....tires that are not made by Goodyear, but by a tire company owned by Goodyear...Mastercraft or something like that.

OBIO

[Roadburner440]

Before they made selling the "new/used tires" illegal when I was living in NY that is what I used to buy. Fresh tires off of recent wrecks. I never had any issues with them, but the gov claimed they were a "safety hazard" waiting to happen. Heck sometimes I think those tires were better than the ones I sometimes get now. Those definately went farther for the $$ that is for sure. For my Fiero could get a whole set of tires installed for under $80. Good to hear they are least inexpensive fixes. I get real worried about tranny leaks and the like. I got to do the 100,000 mile service on that Trailblazer we just bought (to replace the truck that just blew the engine at 160,000).. Hopefully I got this one in time that doing the maitenance will save it.

[Willy]

There's a place near here where I can buy used tires that have a lot of miles left in them pretty cheap. I haven't bought a new tire in years. 17" tires for my pickup start at about $180 a pop (last year) and go way up from there. The tires I have on it now are a matched set and were almost new when I paid $50 each for them.

Sounds to me like the new tire dealers got that deal started in NY.

[gigabyte]

Many moons ago when I was a youngn, I actually worked in the trade and got my Motor Vehicle Repair Ticket, it was fun for a few years, but working on cars in this part of the country is not so much fun in Feb when the accumilated snow and crap starts to melt and drip down your neck when you are under a car... I hated when that happened! Anyway, I used to see rusted Oil filters fairly regularly, almost always caused by a stone chip or something chipping the paint off the filter and then the salt they use on our roads makes quick work of the bare metal on the filter and a small hole appears. I never seen any get beyond the drip drip stage because of course once the oil starts to seap through it protects the metal from further corrosion, but in places where Road Salt is used in the winter leaking oil filters are not uncommon.

One thing I have always done since I got my first car was change the filter each time I changed the oil, I know many manuals and places say replace the filter every second oil change, but for the small cost I always do it every time.

[Roadburner440]

I never heard of replacing the filter every second change, but then again I was never a professional mechanic either. I always change it when I change the oil just out of habit. I know the oil is going to get contaminated anyway, but at least there will be less cross contamination using a new filter. That must be the rule some of those quick lube places though. Cause I could mark the filter everyime and it would still be on the car when they turned it back over. Which is why I started doing it myself. Guaranteed suspension/chassis greasing and oil/filter change when I do it. Although their prices are getting to be almost cheaper than to do it myself.

[Tom Clayton]

I used to turn wrenches for a (meager) living, and I've done a few CV boot/joint replacements. The two most important things are snap ring pliers and a ball joint fork. Pull off the wheel and brake rotor, and you may find a snap ring on the shaft outside the hub. pull that off if it's there then knock the ball joint loose. Once you swing the strut off the half-shaft, it should pull out of the transmission - if I'm remembering this all correctly.

Speaking of which, take a look at the CV boots, especially the outers. If they're cracked, replace them immediately. If you wait and the joints dry up, they're done for and will need to be replaced.

[jmig]

The oil filter is like you kidneys, without the self-cleaning function. When it plugs and goes into by-pass, there is no filtering.

I have known people who will push the oil change but change the filter halfway and just add a quart to make up for lost oil.

[JoeW]

The oil filter is like you kidneys, without the self-cleaning function. When it plugs and goes into by-pass, there is no filtering.

I have known people who will push the oil change but change the filter halfway and just add a quart to make up for lost oil.

I have a neighbor that does this.
At 80,000 miles on the oil the engine gave up the ghost. He sold his 2001 Merc Marc. for $250.

[OBIO]

I'm a 3000 miles or 6 months, which ever comes first, kind of guy when it comes to oil changes. And I change the oil filter with every oil change, grease every thing that needs greased, inspect things that need inspected, and so on and so forth.

My grandpa had a 1965 Pontiac Catalina that he drove FOREVER! The last time I saw the car was in 1985 or 1986 and it had well over 400 thousand on the odometer....original engine, original tranny. He changed oil and filter every 2000 miles...on the dot...not 2001 miles....2000 miles.

OBIO

[jmig]

I have a neighbor that does this.
At 80,000 miles on the oil the engine gave up the ghost. He sold his 2001 Merc Marc. for $250.


Oh no, never use oil that long, unless you have a spinner type filter to remove the dirt and you use an oil sampling service.

The people I talked about will run the oil about 10,000 miles with a filter change in-between oil changes.

[OBIO]

What a messy day this turned out to be. Ran in town to pick up the stuff to do the oil change on the van, then took Deb out for a ride and an ice cream cone. On the way back home, I noticed that the van had developed a very distinct oily smoke smell. Got home, got Deb settled in, changed in to some old work clothes, then headed down to do the oil change. Got the van jacked up and on blocks (I put 4 inch thick solid cement slabs under both front wheels...no way it is going to fall on my fat head) and looked under the van....oil was EVERYWHERE! I had added a quart and a half of new oil to the engine...and the new oil acted to thin down the old sludgy oil and boost oil pressure...and result being that the drip from the rust hole in the oil filter turned into a high pressure spray. Got my catch pan under the van, unscrewed the oil filter...and I was shocked at how BLACK the oil was...blackest oil I have ever seen. Getting the oil pan drain out was a real PITA....it was siezed up with all the gunk in the pan. After 15 minutes of grunting so hard I was on the verge of developing a hernia, the drain plug freed up and I was able to drain the rest of the oil from the engine. The nastiest oil I have ever ever seen. It was blacker than black....sort of what a black hole would look like if it were made of oil.

Got the drain bolt back in and tightened up properly, gave the seal on the new oil filter a wipe with clean motor oil and put in 4 quarts of Valvoline Max Life 5W-30. Fired the van up and let it idle for a few minutes, then topped the oil off to where it should be.

No more oil leak, clean oil in the engine...and a huge mess ever where I looked. Oil was all over my garage floor..from the leak, from dropping the old oil filter, which was very hot. Oil was in my hair, on my face...oil was dripping from virtually every square inch of the underside of the van. Grabbed a roll of paper towels and wiped most of the oil off the underside of the van and off my tools. Then grabbed a bottle of Deb's super concentrated Dawn dish washing liquid to clean the oil off the garage floor. Used half of a second bottle of Dawn to get the oil of myself in the shower.

Oh....after the oil change, I used the empty oil bottles to store the old motor oil in so I can take it in to have it properly desposed of. I was shocked to find that there was less than a quart and a half of oil that came out...and that counts the oil that was in the old oil filter....the engine had nearly pumped itself dry. Now it has 4.5 quarts of good clean oil...which I will run for 1000 miles then do another oil change...well, I won't do it, but I will take the van someplace and have the oil changed.

And I put a pint or so of tranny Stop Leak in the tranny today....going to see if it will recondition the tranny seals enough to stop the leak there...or at least slow it down to a reasonable level so that I can get some other things done on the van before I have to drop the transaxle and replace the seals.

OBIO

[SADT]

Wow OBIO,

You sure have had to go through the whole 9 yards on this van! Does drive well though?

[Roadburner440]

Sounds like Bernouli's principle went into effect on that hole in the oil filter. Sorry to hear it made a mess of your engine compartment, but at least now you have a good filter/oil in it. Hopefully the stop leak will help, but it has been my experience that it usually doesn't. Really depends on how bad it is. At least it is running again, and hopefully after the 1000 miles it will be good as new.

[OBIO]

Wow OBIO,

You sure have had to go through the whole 9 yards on this van! Does drive well though?

There really isn't anything major wrong with the van...just some tune up stuff to do, some TLC stuff to take care of as a result of it sitting for 7 months with just a short idle each week...sitting around and not being driven is HARD on a vehicle. Seals dry and shrink, tires go flat, the oil gets watery (as in water collects in the oil), fuel turns to varnish. The van runs great....just needs some tinkering, some tuning, some replacing...thankfully nothing major at this point. Air filter, wiper blades, fuel filter, oil change are done. Needs new tires and some spark plugs and wires. The leaking tranny is potentially a big fix item....not in the cost of replacing the seals...but in the amount of work involved in getting to the buggers to replace them. In a rear wheel drive car, replacing the front tranny seal is easy: Drop the drive shaft from the tranny, unbolt the tranny from the engine, lower it down, slide it out from under the car, pull the old seal out, clean the seal race, lube the new seal, carefully press it into place, then put the tranny back in the car. A 90 minute job or less. In a front wheel drive car, the job is MONUMENTALLY more complex and has to be done in a much more cramped and crowded area. Dropping the transaxle, replacing the seal and putting the transaxle back in place by myself will be a two DAY job at best.

After I did the oil change today and added the stop leak to the tranny, I took the van for a drive around the block (which really is about a 5 mile drive out some nice back country roads). On one nice long straight stretch that is void of any houses, I really put my foot into the injectors and took the engine to almost 6 thousand RPM....that 3.3 liter V-6 did a good job of getting the van up to 90 mph pretty quickly. Just wanted to see what the old gal had on under her peticoats...turns out she had on a pair of those diaper shorts college volleyball players wear. I was surprised by the exhaust tones...for a few seconds I forgot that I was driving a 7 passenger minivan and could imagine I was back in my dearly missed 99 Pontiac Grand Am GT...well, took a lot of imagining really.

OBIO