Scenery Object Mystery!

[MaskRider]

Guys! I need some help!

I am working on Marpi Point Airfield and have run across some pointy tower-like structures in one of the Marpi photos that I don't recall ever seeing before. I'm wondering if someone can identify them. I have circled them (4 in the left hand circle, 1 in the right hand circle) in the attached image:
1891018914

Also, and this is sort of a scenery object request :wavey: Note in the picture above that I also marked the large Quonsets- I believe that these are the two story structures pictured in better detail below:
18912Nice, huh? These things were all over the Marianas.

For instance. Here is a head on picture of the Marpi Field Tower- its a tower ( a very cool and very much standard style tower by this time in the war) combined with one of those two story quonsets with a couple of one story Quonset wings on either side.
18911

Anyhow, just thought I would throw out the two story Quonsets and the tower as ideas.

Also, please if some one can identify those pointy tower like buildings circled in the first photo I would appreciate it!

Thanks
MR

[MaskRider]

BTW, after looking more closely at detail from the first photo I am thinking that maybe the circled object under the right hand "what is it?" arrow is the Marpi Field Tower structure.

[bobhegf]

It looks like the ones on the left are eather oil or gass tanks of some sort.

[Rich]

MR I think I would go with Bob on them being tanks of some sort whether fuel or water no idea.

[Collin]

MR, what date are you working too?

Here's a pic dated 16/6/44

18945

Are you sure of the dates of your photo's?

Those structures remind me of the old V2 housing that you lot were playing with in 46/47.

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shessi]

Hi MR,
I think you worked that one out for yourself, that the RH circled item on the airfield photo IS the photo with the control tower and large rounded hangar/nissen directly beside it.

The other row of structures a few hundered yards away look to me like they have some height similar to the control tower?

If water supply is scarce and of low pressure, then four water towers?

Or could they be parachute practice towers?

Have you looked on Google Maps etc etc to see if there's any evidence of what was there?

Doubt there will be detailed photos of the area but you never know.....

Cheers

Shessi

[MaskRider]

Hiya Shessi,


Or could they be parachute practice towers?

That's interesting! My first thought was that maybe they were some sort of parachute related structures. I was thinkin more along the lines of places to hang them out to dry or something (hehe, what do I know?!). I had never seen anything like them before.

Fuel storage tanks were usually kept well away from the airfield proper- in tank farms, etc.. Water towers were never given such a prominent place- that I have ever seen. Doesn't mean that they aren't fuel or water tanks, of course.

What is particularly odd is their location close to the edge of what seems to be an asphalt paved service apron. But can it be a service apron? Those 4 "towers" just don't seem to fit with a service apron. However- that "service apron" seems to be there specifically to provide access to those towers- whatever they are.

Probably going to remain a mystery.

But we can keep the thinking caps on. Thanks every one for lending the little gray cells!
MR

[MaskRider]

Those structures remind me of the old V2 housing that you lot were playing with in 46/47.Hiya Collin!

You know in all of my googling around the only images of structures that even came close were images of old V2 housing. But when I saw what they were used for I thought- naaahh, that can't be it!

But you know that is probably just what they are. Marpi was used after the war as sort of a hush hush intelligence related type airfield. Although Marpi Point would seem a heck of a long way to go to get a little privacy- but then again- the open Pacific was a good safe testing range.

And no, I am not at all sure of the dates on that photo- or of many of the photos I have of Marpi- except that I am almost positive the one you posted is unfinished pre-invasion Japanese Marpi Field.

I am gonna see if I can find those V2 housing pictures again. You don't happen to have one handy do you?

Thanks, Collin!
MR

[dvslats]

Hi Mask,
Well, whatever those are they are huge when compared to the aircraft lined up.
And it's a naval airbase also...hmmm

[Shessi]

Right, it's a naval airbase then.

Could they be diver training towers or UET - Underwater Escape Training towers. Filled with seawater to simulate depth for submariners/divers etc etc?

hmm...interesting Mr Bond, very interesting...

Shessi

[MaskRider]

Actually, the more I look at that right hand circled object, I am not so sure that it is the Control Tower/Quonset structure. It's a clear enough picture that the open frame work of the tower would be visible. I have a gut that Tower/Quonset structure is more likely located in the "V" formed by the taxiways leading to the runway on the right side of the photo. Notice that Mt Marpi does not show in the background, as it would if it were that right hand circled structure. However, if it were facing the runway with its back to the sea it would appear as it does in the photo- even down to the detail of the Quonset huts (visible on the right background) exactly where you would expect to see them in the messing/birthing area behind the tower

[MaskRider]

Right, it's a naval airbase then.

Could they be diver training towers or UET - Underwater Escape Training towers. Filled with seawater to simulate depth for submariners/divers etc etc?

hmm...interesting Mr Bond, very interesting...

Shessi

That is a good thought, Shessi. But 4 of them (maybe more)? I don't know. Even at New London Connecticut Sub Base I think we still only have the one underwater escape training tower.

Hmmmm...

[Collin]

Found this on the net.

18953


regards Collin:ernae:

[MaskRider]

Found this on the net.

18953


regards Collin:ernae:

I wonder? Could it be?

Thanks, Collin!
MR

[MaskRider]

MR, what date are you working too?

Here's a pic dated 16/6/44

18945

Are you sure of the dates of your photo's?


The date on the photo I posted above is 1945- no month just the year. But it pretty well matches up with other photos I have from around the same time.

Here is an interesting diagram- contemporary to or prior to it being built. It shows two runways. I am positive that it was never completed to these specifications and that the second runway only ever went as far as seen in the 1945 photo.

18955

Here are two photos that as far as I can tell were both taken during the war- maybe late 44 or so.

1895618957

Finally I have this one which is labeled as "marpi-just-after-war.jpg". Don't know if that is so or not.

18958
MR

[rohan]

MR,
FWIW, if the rightmost circled object is NOT the control tower, then where is the tower in that first photo in your first post ? I've looked all over that photo twice and can't see anything else that is tall enough to be a control tower, that is also close enough to the runway.

Like you, looking at the photo of the tower and its orientation, you would think that you would see at least a part of one or two of the other "tower" things behind it. When I looked closely at that photo earlier, I thought I could see some of the fields and trees that are part of the mountain side, but closer examination now shows that it's actually the image of whatever was printed on the other side of the paper on which that photo appears.

As for the mystery "towers", and indeed the way that the "control tower" appears in the photos in your first post, is it possible that they are covers / tarpaulins / sheeting erected around the things while they were actually being built ? I say this because, despite the magnification used on the second photo, there's still enough resolution to determine that the "towers" have very few straight edges as buildings tend to do ...
Hope that helps,
Ro
:ernae:

[MaskRider]

BTW Here is the layout I am building to. Its a bit of a hybrid. All of the roads outside of the area seen in the attached screenie will be made using G2K. The A16 flatten required to include them in a custom ground poly interferes too much with the appearance of the coast. Therunway is asphalt only for construction purposes- so I can tell where it is. It will be finished with a coral surface.

[MaskRider]

MR,
FWIW, if the rightmost circled object is NOT the control tower, then where is the tower in that first photo in your first post ? I've looked all over that photo twice and can't see anything else that is tall enough to be a control tower, that is also close enough to the runway.

Like you, looking at the photo of the tower and its orientation, you would think that you would see at least a part of one or two of the other "tower" things behind it. When I looked closely at that photo earlier, I thought I could see some of the fields and trees that are part of the mountain side, but closer examination now shows that it's actually the image of whatever was printed on the other side of the paper on which that photo appears.

As for the mystery "towers", and indeed the way that the "control tower" appears in the photos in your first post, is it possible that they are covers / tarpaulins / sheeting erected around the things while they were actually being built ? I say this because, despite the magnification used on the second photo, there's still enough resolution to determine that the "towers" have very few straight edges as buildings tend to do ...
Hope that helps,
Ro
:ernae:

Hiya Rohan,

Thanks for the input. Its got me stymied for sure. I won't let it hold me up- but it sure would be nice to know just what those goofy things are.

WRT: where is the tower in that first photo in your first post ?
OK, here is the way I read it- don't know if would take it to the bank- but here goes: In the front view photo of the control tower there are two keys for me as noted in attachment below:
18961

Those two Quonsets showing side on in the background and the fact Mt Marpi doesn't take up the entire background-as it would if it were there- are key points for me. They convince me that this picture was taken facing NE- looking in direction of open ocean. If the tower were located so that the end of the first SW->NE row of Quonsets shows in the background- which they seem to- then the tower must be located as indicated in the second screenie below- nicely situated to the runway. And if one looks real carefully and uses liberal amounts of imagination there does seem to be something there at that location that jibes with that Control Tower structure. So, that's my take on it.

18962

WRT your suggestion that perhaps the ill defined outline of those "mystery" towers may indicate that they are some sort of unfinished framework or perhaps scaffolding covered with tarps- that is a definite possibility. Good idea. I wonder what what was being covered though? Maybe it was a USO show coming thru and those are tarps covering the light and speaker scaffolds? :)

MR

[MaskRider]

The scenery layout screenie it shows it pretty well, too. I have it set up the way I think it was. Note that there is little question about the location and orientation of the quonset huts. Almost certain that they were located just there.
18963

[rohan]

MR,
agreed about the location of the control tower, especially after looking at the middle left photo in your post #15 again. I do find it a bit confusing about the quonsets in the background of the tower photo though. In that photo, they seem to be side on, but in the other larger view photo, the quonsets that would be behind the tower look as if they would be end on if the directional arrow was indeed the direction in which the camera was pointing ...

And another thought - given the lack of precise dates on some of these photos, is it possible that the ones in your first post represent the original idea for the location of the control tower where construction had been started (to a degree) ? Then, before the tower was completed, it was decided that there was a better location on the opposite side of the runway (for whatever reason). At the same time, perhaps it was also decided that the other "towers" were unnecessary ...

No worries though, you're doing a great job as always,
regs,
Ro

[MaskRider]

Hiya Ro,

Yes, that first row of what appear to be very dark Quonsets facing head on toward the tower are actually patches of grass just before each side on row of Quonsets begin. I was having a little trouble with that when trying to figure the quonset layout at first too. The light lines in between are just the dirt foot paths that go between the rows of Quonsets.

I think if you look again with that in mind you'll see what I mean.

[MaskRider]

Putting what should be the finishing touches on Marpi Point. Decided to leave those odd structures and their nicely paved apron out of the mix. I am pretty sure they were some sort of post war addition anyway.

Gratuitous screenies follow:
Looking SW
19207
Top down
19208
Looking NE from top of Mt Marpi.
19209

Just a couple of token harbor facilities and the rest of the roads and Saipan will be in the can!

Thanks everyone for the input WRT those weird buildings. I had fun!
MR

[MaskRider]

Getting back to those weird buildings for a moment.

Lets assume that this photo was taken shortly after the war- which I believe that it was. That well paved apron over there all fresh and clean with those weird whatzits next to it have to be put in for a reason.

I was wondering if maybe they might have been related to the task of dismantling/breaking up aircraft. If you look closely around the field there do seem to be other similar structures.

Didn't they used to use something like a giant Guillotine to cut up mothballed AC? Maybe that is what those things are?? Maybe just big chain-fall devices for removing engines?

Would that be a possibility?

[The B24 Guy]

Hi MR,

Your request for large "Q" Huts got my creative jucies flowing.
I hope to have something for you soon.

Regards,
B24Guy

[MaskRider]

Hi MR,

Your request for large "Q" Huts got my creative jucies flowing.
I hope to have something for you soon.

Regards,
B24Guy

That is great! Thanks very much B24Guy!

Check your PMs. I sent a zip with a few extra pictures that might come in handy.

Until later,
MR

[Nole]

The structures standing alone are most likely 'parachute lofts'.....every big base has them....where chutes are hung vertically before being repacked.....a process done on long horizontal tables. Hanging in the loft takes all the kinks out. Chutes must be shaken out and repacked periodically. The Air Force was still using these when I was in.

[MaskRider]

You know what Nole, I am going to go with your assessment. No need to get too bizarre or start looking for complicated answers when the simplest is most likely also the the correct one.

It would be nice to see a close up of one, just for comparison purposes, eh? ;)

Thanks,
MR

[Fibber]

MR;
I guess that I want to throw in my 2 cents and assume that it is safe that you saw this picture from 1944:
http://wwiiarchives.net/servlet/photo/1981/1240

Maybe those towers are housing to replace the Quonset huts.:icon_lol:

Here is another site that might bear some revelance to this; http://www.saipanstewart.com/essays/coldwar.html

[MaskRider]

Hi Fibber!

Yes, That photo is of the unfinished Japanese airfield on Marpi Point- before we got our hands on it.

In case anyone is interested: Those cultivated fields around the airfield are sugar cane fields owned and operated by Nanyo Kahatsu Kabushiki Kaisha or Nanyo Kahatsu K.K. for short. It was a strategic development company founded by a guy name Haruji Matsue in 1921 shortly after the Marianas became a mandated territory of Japan. He was the first guy to manufacture cubed sugar in Japan and was the Sugar King! He basically owned the Mariana Islands and had huge sugar refinery located not far from what was to become Kobler field down on the SW shore of Saipan. The entire island was connected via a small gauge sugar cane railway that also served as a public transport system, too. During the war it was also used by the Japanese Army to haul large caliber railway mounted guns. Saipan was a very comfortable and well developed place during the 20s and 30s. In the photo you linked, if you look carefully you can see that the dispersal/taxiway is built along the Sugar Cane railway right of way at that end of the island. What looks like a road comng in at the lower right and continuing along the base of the cliff is the railway. That may also be another spur on the ocean side of the runway. You can see that the Japanese airfield engineers were much more careful looking after the well being of Mr Matsue's sugar cane fields than the Americans were!

[Nole]

This is a photo of the parachute loft at Pityilu airfield in the Pacific, along with the attached rigging quonset hut.

[Nole]

Here's another chute loft and rigging building from Palm Island Naval Airstation in 1943.

[MaskRider]

That is great, Nole! Thanks!

It certainly seems to fit the bill. But still 4, maybe even 5 on one relatively small airfield?

Check out this detail posted earlier in the thread. (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18914&d=1284683887) The structure on the right certainly seems to fit the bill of a parachute loft with a rigging quoset attached to the rear end, doesn't it?

Those 4 others on the left puzzle me still. There appear to be no rigging quonsets running off of any of them. That back side area between them and the road appears to be a cleared dirt area to me.

You know that road behind is actually also the narrow gauge sugar cane railway. The fields that Marpi Air Station was built on were sugar cane fields and that train ran thru there and probably stopped to collect sugar cane. I wonder, if by any chance those things could be left over from the old sugar cane operations- maybe silos or storage lofts for the cane waiting to be picked up by the train? Maybe even coal skuttles or something similar for the train- water towers even?

Its an interesting photo.

PS I look as closely as posible at the photos posted by Collin and Fibber of the unfinished Japanese airfield at Marpi point. But I can't make out anything resembling these things.

[Fibber]

MR;
A lot of web searching has told me that Marpi was turned into a logistic distribution point during the late war. Before the quiet boys came in and turned it black.
Consider this though, Marpi Point was to be a distribution point for the ammunition to be utilized in the invasion of Japan. In fact so much was stockpiled that when the invasion was deemed unnecessary alot of it was blown up insitu because of the cost and logistic headaches involved in removing it. That is one of the reasons it is listed as a dangerous area to this day as alot of the ammo did not destruct but rather was blown all over.
Large amounts of parachutes would be needed to bring in supplies for any invasion until airfields could be taken. Take a look at the airplanes sitting on the apron. the ones nearest the towers appear to be transports. So those could be extra parachute rigging towers.
Just a little photo interpretation and conclusions on my part.

[MaskRider]

Excellent points fibber.

I am sure that must be what they were. No other explanation really fits.

Thanks for pointing out the importance of keeping the big picture in mind and how Marpi and the rest of the Marianas fit in.

I didn't know about Marpi being a distribution point for ammo used in the aborted invasion of Japan or that the stuff was "disposed of" in such a fashion.

With that context in mind, 5 parachute lofts would make perfect sense.

Cheers,
MR

PS: I hope The B24Guy is paying attention to this part of the thread?:rolleyes:

[Fibber]

MR;
I will try to refind that site but I believe it was in one of those land reclaimation reports that the bureaucrats seem to love. :salute:

addendum;
quick search found reference here; http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=97550
scroll down to "Trash..."

More to follow

30

[Fibber]

If Marpi later became Matoisa Point Ordinace depot here is a photo for you late war guys.
It is a PPS. so you have to start the presentation to see it. www.phscof.org/events/sym09/Tuesday/A703/Muza.pps