Nigel's 109's: Are Scary Good!

[Autothrottle]

Hello all,

This number has been ingrained into my mind since May this year. Each time I see Nigel uploading another 109, It seems to open up so much more than just the machine, I don't know about each one of you guys reading this thread, but I've been doing alot of reading on nearly all of the Aces that flew this magnificent fighter.

When I got CFS3, it seemed so droll only having two 109's with just basic information. Nigel and others seemed to have taken it to a whole other level and brought out exciting bits of unit information, Jagdgeschwader listings, Pilot information, etc. Its just not the 109 as a machine, I dont know if Nigel will agree with me or not, but he seems to have inadvertently placed the man in the vanguard over the machine itself.

The result? In my opinion, he has tremendously boosted the importance of this fighter for the sim and sim enthusiasts. I've read where the 109 was Germanys most produced fighter of the war, and you can see why. Its the most lethal to look at, the most colorful and was used by all of the Luftwaffe aces who wanted Tommy for breakfast.

Nigel, you make the 109 look and feel scary good! If the spitfire was the most elegant fighter early on, this seems like the one who straight up wants to kill you, no doubt. Kudos in all of your works Nigel, I don't know where or how much you produce my friend, but this much is clear, you certainly seem to have worked alongside Willy Messerchmitt himself.

Good luck in future projects!

All who agree can reply.

[BeauBrummie]

...and from an Englishman living and workng in France!! Truely remarkable stuff Nigel. My mind boggled at your in depth knowledge of the 109's sub-variants in t'other thread.

[ndicki]

Thank you for such kind words! But I must insist that these are as much Rene's work as my own, perhaps in many ways more so.

Between us we've long wanted to do a rework of the Bf109G/K but were held back by a number of factors. One thing which helped to open the floodgates was gregoryp's decision to allow us to use his first-class AvH G-10 DCM flight dynamics as a basis to work from.

Since then, Rene has worked obsessively - I think you have to be a bit obsessive when it comes to flight dynamics! - not only to tweak the original G-10 DCM, but to bring out the entire range of engine, fuel and boost type combinations for the G/K series. That's more different variations than I care to count! Each one takes hours of fiddling and testing - and that's once you actually have the true performance specifications. Research alone has taken hours and hours.

And he's kept me on track, too, with little details which I would have missed or forgotten about - or simply didn't know about in the first place.

That makes Rene, rather than me, the father of this series of rebuilds. Without his dedication, it would not have happened.

Then there are others who have contributed - notably Luca and Alessandro who built the pylons and filters we've used, and who gave us permission to use them. Guy "Fox" Greenberg, who did some of the effects. And other members of the Desert Rats team, such as Wildbat, whose AI sounds we're using.

So let's say that these are very simply DR2 aircraft for MAW, and DL aircraft for other installs.

[greycap.raf]

Very late to the party but I guess I have to say a few words too.

If I'm the father of the series as Nigel says, well, perhaps, but he's the mother in that case. Admittedly I made them fly as accurately as I could and even if I say it myself the engines are as close to the real thing as the physics engine allows them to be (apparently decreasing efficiency at high boost pressures isn't modelled) but still one question must to be asked.

Even if they flew exactly like the real thing would they gather half of the current interest if they looked like the MS stock skins do?

I'm willing to bet the answer is a firm "no" and nobody can be blamed for it, eye candy is at least as important as accurate physics. This is a "Phantom of the Opera" case, I'm the Phantom behind the scenes doing the invisible but necessary work and Nigel plays the role of Christine, presenting that work to the audience in a most excellent way.

They obviously aren't my work because of what you see only a very small part is made by me and they aren't completely Nigel's work either because of the reasons mentioned.

So I fully agree to them being DR2 aircraft for MAW and DL for the rest of the CFS3 world.

[HouseHobbit]

YES, Nigel has given us GREAT Bf 109's..

Unbelievable Work From The men involved..
Rene, and Luca and Alessandro the entire group have made my experience far better..

I have been Bessed with Many Bf 109's, and enjoy them greatly..
BRAVO.. To The team that have enriched our CFS3 set ups greatly..

THANKS VERY MUCH..

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

[popsaka]

...Just had ta add me own compliments to yer latest skin work...
'tis real pretty luvly stuff, indeed!!! ...I wuz a fan of your old 'Yellow 11' 109
and now the new one rocks!

...now if we could jes get that G-6 jockey ta set a bit taller in the saddle! :wavey:

[HouseHobbit]

HEY... I doesn't matter,
I have to put a thick book or two under me, on the seat to fly anything as it is..

:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

[loverboy1]

CANT WAIT FOR THE "hh" HOBIT BRAND ON THESE BIRDS AND SOME MISSIONS IN THE AIR


yeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaa

great stuff from canada to you

[merci54]

Have any idea why a few of the DL and DR's when selected crash to desktop? Such as
DL_109g5_JGr25.


Gary

[ndicki]

Probably because you haven't installed the base models? Have you got White 9 and Yellow 6 installed? That's the usual problem - there may be pylons and things missing.

[Autothrottle]

To tell you the truth Nigel, even if some aircraft are crashing for some reason or another, there are alot more to choose from.

Some of your aircraft I had to actually think awhile for a few days before getting them because they look so bloody awesome. I had to do a little research on others just to get the appreciation factor . Overall, is there truly a 109 that is better than the next?

[ndicki]

Yes - G-10/U4 with DB605DCM engine. Better killing power owing to the 30mm cannon, better engine power owing to 100 Octane and MW50 boost, and still a lighter airframe than the K-4. Personally I actually prefer the K-4 because the added weight makes it that bit more stable, but the best all-round has to be that G-10.

I honestly cannot see what might be causing these crashes - mine do not, and nor do Rene's - which are the same as the release version because they ARE the release version. I suspect there my be a bit of faulty installation to blame...

[merci54]

Thanks, ndicki. Figured it was something like that. Have yellow6 but missing white9 and I thought I had them all! I'll look for it tomorrow. Great additions! :salute:
Gary

[ndicki]

You really need the guns, weapons and pylons from both these, although some parts are duplicated. The pylons in particular are different - White 9 has the tropical set, Yellow 6 has the temperate set.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=10&linkid=460
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=10&linkid=419

Other aircraft have their own bits and bobs included, such as the gun files for the G-8.

[merci54]

They all work now! It was not having White 9 and its goodies. I always install all the guns, weapons and pylons as I've found out how finicky CFS3 can be. I usually stay with FS9 but your paints were too tempting. Thanks for your help! :salute:

Gary

[Autothrottle]

187311873218730

This has to be my favorite 109 for now at least, The cobbled together Rosemary.

Nigel must have worked around the Messerchmitt factory or something because these paint jobs make even Tommies jealous.

Nigel BTW, What is the little red circle for near the iron cross chevron? Copyright perhaps?

[ndicki]

If you mean on frame 2 starboard, the red one is the electrical socket, and the blue one just ahead of it is the oxygen port.

[greycap.raf]

Or if you mean the third option, the one half red and half blue behind the fuselage cross, it's the pressurized air port for the MK108.

[Autothrottle]

Geez those Germans stopped at nothing when it came to aircraft design!

[Led Zeppelin]

I've got a technical question about wep on G series, what are the diffrences?

Why does it seems that early G10 productions are fitted with a better boost than later ones? Why does the K4 boost is not as powerfull as the G6 one?

Is there a technical explanation or do I've looked in the wrong section?

From the lower to the most powerfull boost. I've looked in aircraft.cfg files ([piston_engine] section, emergency_boost_mp_offset & emergency_boost_gain_offset):

K4
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.525
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.28705

G6 = G14
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.56
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.29744

G6AS
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.56
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.34449

G10 late productions, DB605DCM (C3 with MW50) = DB605DCM (C4 with MW50)
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.525
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.31807

G10 early - mid production DB605DBM (B4 with MW50)
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 4.816
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.43456

[greycap.raf]

Why does it seems that early G10 productions are fitted with a better boost than later ones?

More gains to be got from the lower octane, high detonation risk B4 fuel.


Why does the K4 boost is not as powerfull as the G6 one?

See above, and it adds roughly the same amount of power but the percentage is smaller so it feels like less.


Is there a technical explanation or do I've looked in the wrong section?

I'll just add the power figures in italics, you'll see that what feels like more power necessarily isn't quite that.

K4
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.525
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.28705

1800 bhp full throttle, 2000 bhp MW50.

G10 late productions, DB605DCM (C3 with MW50) = DB605DCM (C4 with MW50)
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.525
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.31807

1800 bhp full throttle, 2000 bhp MW50.

G6 = G14
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.56
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.29744

1255 bhp full throttle, 1475 bhp emergency.

G6AS
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 3.56
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.34449

1215 bhp full throttle, 1435 bhp emergency.

G10 early - mid production DB605DBM (B4 with MW50)
emergency_boost_mp_offset = 4.816
emergency_boost_gain_offset = 0.43456

1550 bhp full throttle, 1850 bhp MW50.

The gain offset does nothing but governs the critical altitude for the emergency boost, it doesn't affect actual power so I've moved G-10 DCM next to the K-4 where it belongs. And as you see now... the ones with "the worst boost" are actually the most powerful engines. They make more power at full throttle than any DB605A derived engine does at emergency boost and come close to the MW50 figure of the DBM. Add MW50 to the mix and they're entirely in their own class. The better the fuel used is, C3 being miles ahead of B4, the more "baseline boost" can be used. It also limits the amount of the possible extra boost as the engine can only take a certain amount of overall boost before detonation kicks in and destroys the engine. Lesser versions have more headroom in the design and as such can use more extra boost before blowing up.

[Led Zeppelin]

Thanks a lot for having taking the time to write a such detailed answer. Really usefull, I've learned something.