Scenery; Starting over from scratch?

[RAF_Swede]

Heya guys
One last question if I could..

I'm thinking I need to start all over from scratch if this is possible at this point.
I have some very bizarre anomaly’s going on up in the Tinian area. In Free Flight I find myself upside down in my aircraft and crashing. Also the ground around where I am has ocean textures.
Somewhere along the line somethin got majorly screwed up..

The last thing I was playin around with was some of the newest MASKRIDER sceneries, the DEM8 Mesh set, and _mr marianas b-1. I have everything to do with that area deleted or turned off in Scenery Library, but still I get this weird stuff.

I put my original CFS2\.GSL in a folder and renamed it before I started using the GSL.man.

Oh, and just what do all those .bgl I put in my CFS2\SCENERY folder do?

wm_johnson_3, wm_christmas_3, 0_noemfoor_xcld for example..

In the, mr_marianas_b-1 readme it says there are some MESH that come with the scenery. Could this be causing conflicts?
I had a significant frame rate hit flying around Guam.

Again all scenery in this area is turned off or deleted in Scenery Library at the present time.

Any thoughts you might have would be appreciated :)

[MaskRider]

Hiya RAF_Swede,

I think what we have here is perhaps too much of a good thing.

Speaking strictly for myself and MaskRider scenery here is the bottom line.

There are essentially 2 types of MaskRider scenery:
Type1: Pre Rhumba Mesh/Mask Scenery.
Type2: Post Rhumba Mesh/Mask Scenery

Type1: Pre Rhumba Mesh/Mask Scenery.
The vast majority of this earlier MR scenery is built to fit stock CFS2 mesh and stock CFS2 land masks along with all the other stock CFS2 terrain features- rivers, roads, shorelines, etc- at affected locations. As time went on newer Type1 fields were built with Ground2Kv4. This means that at these locations the stock, mesh, masks, shorelines, rivers, roads, etc could be and were replaced with customs versions of all these terrain features. In cases where a whole new island for an island airfield was created using G2Kv4, the stock island entirely disappeared and an entire new island took its placed. Because this new island was made using the same SRTM data as Rhumba would later use to create his wordwide mesh/masks we have the happy outcome that these from-the-ground-up new islands will fit with either a Pre Rhumba CFS2 install or a Post Rhumba CFS2 install. However, in many cases the new G2Kv4 airfield was not a stand alone from-the-ground-up island but was incorporated into the stock CFS2 shoreline of a larger landmass such as the main islands of Papua New Guinea for instance, where the entire thing was too large to be replaced. In these cases a new shoreline, land mask, rivers, roads etc. were created only to cover the area immediately adjacent to the airfield location and these new shorelines and land masks were then shifted and "blended" into the stock shorelines so that they fit. These blended-into-the-stock-terrain G2Kv4 airfields do not fit in with the surrounding terrain of a Post Rhumba CFS2 install.The reason for this is that the shorelines and masks created from SRTM data are “accurate” compared to stock CFS2 shorelines/masks. At some locations the two versions may come close to coinciding but they are never spot on. Usually they are significantly misplaced so that the blended-into-the-stock-terrain airfields only fit it they are tweaked back to the accurate (SRTM) location instead of how they were created- shifted to fit the inaccurately placed CFS2 masks.

Hope this all makes some sort of sense.

For reasons best not sidetracking us here, up until the time when Rhumba provided us with his worldwide mesh and masks I never built airfields in of the area of CFS2 where there were no existing shorelines and/or no semblance of elevated terrain.

That changed of course when Rhumbas mesh and masks came along. I embarked on a scenery making adventure in what were for me anyway, new uncharted territories.

Type2: Post Rhumba Mesh/Mask Scenery.
These airfield locations were built to fit Rhumba’s mesh and Rhumba’s land masks. Except for from-the-ground-up stand alone islands created using SRTM data, none of the Type1 MR airfields will fit into a Post Rhumba Mesh and Mask world. Its just the hard simple fact of the matter.

Those Type1 MR fields that are of the blended-into-the-stock-terrain type can with some careful shifting and tweaking be made to fit perfectly with the new Rhumba mesh and masks. Although just rebuilding them might be easier in many cases.

However, the older, pre-G2Kv4 stuff: Mr Solomns (most not all), MR PNG (most not all), MR DEI (50/50), MR Philippines (all), MR Australia (all), MR Micronesia (50/50), MR Japan Outlying Island Airfields (all) and Formosa (all) simply need to be rebuilt to fit into Post Rhumba Mesh/Mask world.

Once again, from-the-ground-up stand alone islands built to fit the Rhumba mesh/mask word will also fit the Stock CFS2 world- although proper mesh may be lacking at some stock locations and need to be provided.

Bottom line
What we have then is a population of Type1 MR airfields, a population of Type2 MR airfields and a intersecting population that will work in either.

I think I need to reorganize my website to reflect this 3 part reality. Any suggestions as to what would make it easier and less confusing would be welcome.

I for one, at the present time have two separate CFS2 installs. One with the stock mesh and masks another with Rhumba’s Mesh and Masks.

Cheers, guys. Sorry for being so long winded on this but I needed to think out loud about it.

MR

[kdriver]

Hi RAF_Swede,

In addition to the above, even if you have Rhumba's mesh and Maskrider's Tinian scenery installed correctly, when you use the stock Tinian AFD entry, you will find yourself on the side of a steep hill south of the new accurate airfield. Hence your aircraft flips over and blows up.

This also applies to the stock Guam AFD entry and in the near future, Aslito on Saipan. Therefore, you need to use Maskrider's AFD entries to be lined up on the runways.

Hopefully this may fix half of the problems you are having.

Kevin

[MaskRider]

Hi guys,

Thanks for that input, kdriver. I would only add not to go looking for any specific AFD bgls for my scenery. I consolidate the scenery, flatten and afd bgls into a single bgl.

But for sure, do try to start at the menu listing that goes with my scenery. Do not start at "Tinian" for instance. That is the stock CFS2 Tinian which no longer exists as kdriver points out. Start at the "MN MI Tinaian North Field" entry.

BTW I have started the process of reworking my website clarify the issue of the two different set of Mesh/Masks.

Next step will be to come up with a pack of those airfields that will work in both set ups.

[bearcat241]

In addition to the above, even if you have Rhumba's mesh and Maskrider's Tinian scenery installed correctly, when you use the stock Tinian AFD entry, you will find yourself on the side of a steep hill south of the new accurate airfield. Hence your aircraft flips over and blows up.

This also applies to the stock Guam AFD entry and in the near future, Aslito on Saipan. Therefore, you need to use Maskrider's AFD entries to be lined up on the runways.

And....if you have any of the older missions and campaigns connected to these stock sites, there's another headache to contend with. Not only for you as a player, but also any AI operating from these sites will be affected. I don't have the their names in front of me, but i've flown several Hellcat and Corsair campaigns involving pre-invasion and invasion strikes on stock Tinian, Saipan and Guam. The new B-29 bases would completely wreck these sorties by changing airfield locations and layouts.

This is one of my reasons for building a separate CFS2 1945 install. My new install covers 10-44 to the end of the Pacific war. According to my sources, Saipan's Isley and Kobler Fields were fully operational by 10-12-44, Tinian NF by 12-19-44, Guam NF by 1-16-45 and Iwo Jima by 3-5-45. All of the new Maskrider Marianas bases and all B-29's -- old and recent -- will go into this new install, as well as any pre-existing actions related to the invasions of Iwo Jima (invaded 2-19-45) and later Okinawa. When the action moves beyond the taking of Iwo and Okinawa, i can deactivate pre-invasion Iwo-Okinawa scenery and activate MR's future post-invasion creations for these locations. That's my 1945 setup plan.

However, because Saipan, Tinian and Guam were all invaded by US forces during the period from 6/44 to 7/44, any missions and camps related to these invasions can be kept in my current CFS2 PTO install and the use of the infrastructures of the stock sites can be retained without the type of conflicts mentioned above.

Still undecided about where to put Leyte Gulf (10/44-12/44) and follow-on Philippines action. Got some TBF and Helldiver camps that run from late '42 to Philippines 1945. Guess i'll wait and see what MR does with his Philippines updates later...

[RAF_Swede]

Chris, that was an excellent explanation.. Thank you!
I knew things have come a long way with CFS2 but didn't realize to this extent..
I'm curtain you will come up with a perfectly logical way to deal with this..
It was kinda fun to go on Google Earth and put in the quards' we are given for some of the airfields and see where ya end up. Kakoda airstrip is still there! :)
Anyway it will be really cool to see an 'accurate' representation of the PTO!


So.. Bottom line for me then, is to just use the older stuff with stock mesh, until, all this gets sorted out?

If I may, let me be a little more specific with my original question..

I would like to know why.. with everything either deleted or turned off, I still get this weirdness up in the Tinian area..?

I specifically went to a scenery I use for big bombers, FTC.zip. It comes up in the menu called "714 Bomber ATC". I got it from the old AVHistory site. It's two very long runways on Tinian with the stock runway nearby. Perhaps some of you remember this scenery.. I can attach a copy if you would like to see it.
Until I activated the Rhumba mesh I have never had a problem with it. But now... Rhumba mesh is turned off. So why is this still happening?
What is really weird is, I get there and I'm flying already, engines started and in the air..

This is why I was asking about starting over, as if a fresh install, cause it seems something is confused..

Specifically the CFS2\GSL.. Do I merely replace my original .gsl in the GSL folder and put the .gsl I have in place now in the Recyle Bin? Or must I 'remove' the .gsl entries first?
This is where I'm at now..

Thanks guys for the replies..

[MaskRider]

Hiya RAF_Swede,

Can you please attach a couple of screen shots that show what it looks like?

Also, FYI, the most up to date Type 1 scenery packs are available at my website at the top of the downloads page. Those are what I have loaded on my machine as we speak.

I need to cull thru what MR scenery is available here at SOH and make sure that the files currently available at my website- and only the files currently available at my website- are also the only files that are available here.

Also, just turning off Rhumba's mesh will not achieve all that you wish. Those new land masks that fit the mesh- are also a problem. I have a feeling that what is most likely happening is that those AVHistory runways have you starting in what is now water- thus you are being respawned (instead of crashing) up in the air.

A thoroughgoing uninstall of Rhumba's mesh and masks may be what you need. I guess the best bet might be to follow Rami's tutorial- but sort of go thru it backwards.;)

MR

[Devildog73]

RAF_Swede,
MaskRider helped my PTO and SEAPTO installs with his advice. He KNOWS scenery!

The biggest problem is that there are multiple ages of scenery and masks out here. They are the best that were available at the time they were designed by MaskRider, Xavier, SDc, and others. Fortunately (or unfortunately) scenery design has taken on new life with newer techniques and software advances. So, we either stay with what we have and do not mix in the newer, higher quality stuff, or, we throw out the old COMPLETELY, and just use the new as designers like MaskRider develop it because a lot of it is not compatible with each other and causes major conflicts and visual anomalies that just do not look good.

For PTO and SEAPTO, I use MaskRider's stuff EXCLUSIVELY.
For MTO/ETO I mostly use Sander's stuff, with other masks and scenery that is compatible with Sander's stuff. THAT is where Rami's installation guide really comes in handy.

[RAF_Swede]

Hey Chris..
Thanks again..
Your site looks great!

Devildog, it is truly amazing how much effort has gone into a 10+ year old program that just about everyone was cussin up and down at the time.. lol.

Here's a pic of what goin on at 714..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f218/rafswede/General/GCS0016.jpg

Ok, I'll take a look at Rhumba's tute.. Worst case I'll just uninstall reinstall.. It's not that much trouble, just gotta remember to remove all aircraft folders from the CFS2 root folder or they're toast..

[MaskRider]

Hiya RAF_Swede,

So, right now, nothing that was in the MR Marianas folder is loaded, right? That folder is either deactivated or gone, right? If so, then here is very likely the reason for what we are seeing here.

Go to your main CFS2/Scenery folder and delete the following two files- if they are there.

0_marianas_xcld.Bgl
marianas_wm_3.bgl

That should handle it. Afterward all you should see there is the stock terrain, the stock airfield and the those two long add on runways.

[MaskRider]

I am beginning to think that I should release this newer scenery as self installers/uninstallers so that nothing gets left behind in case of an uninstall. Also, it would make it nice for when the user wants to use it and then not use it but might wants to use it again.

Problem right now is that just deactivating the scenery folder from the scenery library won't totally get rid of the scenery. Those excludes and water masks that get put into the main CFS2/Scenery folder also need to be removed or else the stock scenery will still not reappear.

Also, with this newer pack eventually contain both a pre and post US occupation version of Iwo, a self installer/uninstaller will make that option more easily choosable.

I have a registered version of WinZip. Anybody out there with experience doing this who could PM me with details? Do I have all I need?

Cheers,
MR

[RAF_Swede]

Heya Chris

Well fixing this turned out to be quite straight forward.. I just removed all those .bgl's from my CFS2\SCENERY folder and put my stock .gsl file back in the CFS2\GSL folder. The 714 runway is back..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f218/rafswede/General/GCS0020.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f218/rafswede/General/GCS0021.jpg

So.. I got all the files on your site for STOCK mesh and will install them this weekend..

Two points or questions..

Kakoda track scenery is included in the PNG set, so the only thing we need from the Kakoda Track d/l is the missions, map, some .jps's and the RAAF c47. BTW, the c47 didn't show up in the Free Flight menu. I think its maybe because the stock c47 was in the Aircraft folder at the same time, but I'll look into this more later. I got it to show up after re-naming the model to RAAF.. c47, but that will mess up the mission I think.. yes?

Also, I think Peleliu STILL requires the .gsl treatment from the _mr_Palau d/l? Mr_Palau had the Stock Peleliu .gsl plus the maskrider peleliu .gsl. so you could switch back to the Stock Peleliu if you wished.

A self installer would be the way to go.. Of course this is way so many guys have multiple installs of CFS2.. :)

[RAF_Swede]

Ok, got all the latest Type 1 scenery for stock mesh installed and it looks great! No problems up near Tinian either.. :)

The one and only problem I ran into was... you guessed it.. Peleliu.

After adding all the .gsl's with gsl.man, adding the basic scenery to Scenery Library, Priority 11,
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f218/rafswede/General/GCS0022.jpg

and adding the .bgl's that go into the SCENERY folder, I went to mr_Peleliu via Free Flight and saw the MR and Stock runways again. And the mr runway was not LIT.

FIX: Removed;
MN_Angaur_Island_GSL
MN_Ngesebus_Island_GSL
MN_Peleliu_GSL
MN_Peleliu_GSL_Excl

from the general scenery folder, and activated the MR_Palau download, which comes with the above .gsl's that are LIT, and gave it a Priority of 2. See pic above.

So, I really believe that the _mr_Palau download needs to be included with the latest Type 1 downloads for this reason.

Everything looks awesome now, great work! :salute: