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CBris
November 19th, 2008, 12:07
The newly released Pitts served as a reminder... There are still quite a few planes around, where the exterior textures are squidged onto one sheet of 1024 square paper.

In this day and age that is not a really satisfactory option because most painters can't cope with such low definition texture sheets. Even me! I would avoid "one sheeters" like the plague. "You can't get a decent paint on one sheet" was the main argument.

At three pixels to the inch, the models can really only be looked at from wing-tip distance.

Then came the Pitts S2B. I am faced with a quandary - here's a great plane with a poor paintkit and I simply must have that plane!

Last resort time... I must try to find a new technique to maximise the detail. Think, think, think...

I have normally painted a plain using "paint" tools. Not exactly the sharpest edges. I had done some vector rivets in the past and copied them into the bitmap pictures, letting the AA do the smoothing. Vector graphics tools were good for creating sharp logos too. What if I do the whole plane as a 2048 pixel square vector graphic image and export from the vector program.

My lesson for today is that you should try using vector graphics in your paints as well... a couple of sample images from the draw program, from the dds export and from the finished model...

As seen in the vector programme:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Pitts/PKextrat1.jpg

As seen in dds format

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Pitts/PKextrat2.jpg

As seen on the wing

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Pitts/preview5_8.jpg

and heres one from the "delivered product"

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Pitts/Review_R_8.jpg

I think the vectors have it, no?

There's your tip for the day...

Cazzie
November 23rd, 2008, 03:41
That is definitively better! However, I don't understand what you mean by vector graphics. An explanation to an old brain would be of great assistance. I haven;t even tried the dds formats for repaint yet. I do not fully understand the principle behind them either.

I am one of those slow and easy keep it simple stupids, but I am always up for learning.

Caz

CBris
November 23rd, 2008, 04:20
Ah... sorry. In a painter program you tend to have antialiased raster graphics - bitmap and jpg for instance.

A vector graphic is where lines are plotted along vectors - i.e. "draw a line from here to there". Then at whatever resolution you have, the line is still a line. Hang on, let me see if I can do you an example...

CBris
November 23rd, 2008, 04:41
OK folks, vectors and rasters...

Draw a circle a box and a line in a painter program and overlay them. As you zoom in, you will see this:

Overall view on your monitor

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLraster2048whole.jpg

Closer in:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLraster2048close.jpg

Zoomed up

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLraster2048zoom.jpg

As you can see, all that happens is you create one picture initially, where the image is created out of a raster of pixels. As you zoom in, the pixels are till there...

Now with a vector graphic, all you have done is to draw hairline lines by telling the PC to plot from a to b. You didn't actually plot the lines yourself. The art software did the calculations, but if you opened the picture as a data file, you'd see the picture as a mathematical calculation of vectors. The graphical user interface takes that workload off your hands.

The same picture created in Corel Draw - a vector graphics program:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLvector2048whole.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLvector2048close.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLvector2048zoom.jpg

And with vector graphics, you can keep on zooming right in...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLvector2048zoom2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Non-flight%20Misc/CBLvector2048zoom3.jpg



In fact in Corel you can zoom in to a factor of 405651% and still get incredibly sharp lines.

Now you'd think this would be great for sharp images on painted planes, but unfortunately you can't put vectors onto 3D moving images. Yet.

So once you have draw your vector graphics in photoshop or Corel draw or GIMP, you have to save it as a bitmap in DDS format, DXT 5

In other words, you creat a "skin" that is draped over the 3D model. At the moment the MS offical size for a skin texture is 1024 pixels square (2048 works, but some graphic cards can't handle the load, so 1024 is "official") So if your plane is 20 feet long and the fuselage is drawn on a single sheet texture, then you have 1000 pixels on which you can display 20 feet of fuselage. Or 50 pixels per foot.

Images drawn first as vectors and then converted are still a good sharper than images painted in a bitmap raster painter and then sized.

So it's all in the vectors...

...and I know Photoshop can, but as a Corel user, I don't know how...

Cazzie
November 23rd, 2008, 04:48
Amazing Chris and now I understand. I have used vector graphics in Adobe Illustrator making decals for models and never knew that was what I was dealing with. A long time-consuming process I can see, but definitely much better than the dds and other formats.

Thank s a bunch Chris. :applause: If I get that Pitts, I'll be looking forward to one of your paints.

Caz

CBris
November 23rd, 2008, 05:06
Oh... sorry - I have stopped all work on the Pitts. The modeller didn't activate alpha channel on the 3D model surface. You onla have one surface - shiny-reflective. Take it or leave it. That on top of the lacking speculars was a final straw for me as a painter. The model itself is still great fun to fly. I have even been playing with the flight dynamics and I now have a real crackerjack plane to fly. I have never really managed good 8 point rolls, but now that I have started to delve into the arcane arts of aerodynamics...

And now I even get the book-spec 2700 fpm climb rate. Flying that plane with sharpened dynamics is a blast!!! I really must do that more often :icon_lol:

Anyway - there'll be plenty of planes that I'll be painting.

Tako_Kichi
November 23rd, 2008, 07:04
Having been a graphic designer / technical illustrator for many years prior to me becoming medically disabled I can wholeheartedly agree with your points on vector graphics over raster based graphics Chris.

One trick I use in Photoshop when repainting is to use the pen tool to create lines and bezier curves and then fill the enclosed area with paint. I find it gives much sharper details that way.

CBris
November 23rd, 2008, 07:21
True... but that is - as you say - more complex.

Something I haven't learnt yet :costumes:

Cazzie
November 23rd, 2008, 14:09
Chris, I have been able to get the hang of about every tool Photoshop has except the Pen Tool. :banghead: I do not know why, but I can never get it to do what I think it is supposed to do. Sure wish I could.

Caz

Tako_Kichi
November 23rd, 2008, 14:38
What problems are you having with the pen tool Caz? It should work exactly like the pen tool in Illustrator. The only exception is that in Photoshop it doesn't automatically have stroke/fill information applied so it leaves you with a 'path' instead of a painted line/filled area. You then need to apply a stoke or fill to the path using the right-click menu or what I do most of the time is convert the path to a selection on a new layer (with a 'bleed' if required) and then fill the selection. By converting to a selection it leaves the path intact so you can use it again on another part of the texture if required and it will be identical to the first area, or you can scale/tweak it as required.

Cazzie
November 23rd, 2008, 16:00
What problems are you having with the pen tool Caz? It should work exactly like the pen tool in Illustrator. The only exception is that in Photoshop it doesn't automatically have stroke/fill information applied so it leaves you with a 'path' instead of a painted line/filled area. You then need to apply a stoke or fill to the path using the right-click menu or what I do most of the time is convert the path to a selection on a new layer (with a 'bleed' if required) and then fill the selection. By converting to a selection it leaves the path intact so you can use it again on another part of the texture if required and it will be identical to the first area, or you can scale/tweak it as required.

Somehow, I always wind up erasing or eliminating work I have already done. I leave the pen Tool alone as every time I try to use it, i invariably screw up something and have to back up! :banghead: I never got the hang of it in Illustrator either, getting old and having your neurons freeze on you is no fun! :isadizzy:

But I am a determined old coot and one day, one day I'll get the hang of it like I did Alpha channels and there then I will kick my own behind for being so stupid!

Caz

Tako_Kichi
November 23rd, 2008, 17:09
Well you probably know already but the trick to avoiding errors like erasing parts is to always work on a new layer for each bit you do and only merge the layers together when you are happy. That way you can only mess up the current layer and not the entire paint job. You should also never save a fully merged or flattened image either, always save the layered version and then you can go back to it. Save the merged/flattened images using 'save as' with a different name or format.

johnh_049
November 23rd, 2008, 18:59
WOW! all that makes me glad that i'm using PSP7.
vectors aren't all that complicated in psp.
i've used them in every repaint i've done, after i learned about vectors.