PDA

View Full Version : tutorial on ribbed wings



Cees Donker
August 3rd, 2010, 04:41
Hi there guys,

Was wondering: is there a tutorial on how to ceate the scalloped look of linen clad wings WWI style?

Thanks

Cees

johnh_049
August 3rd, 2010, 05:46
you might look at J E Narciso's supercub paintkit to get some idea how to do it

Stratobat
March 30th, 2011, 20:54
Hey Guys,

I know this thread is relatively old but were you looking for something like this, Cees?

- http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/f34-general-tutorials/fabric-surfaces-hard-way-718/

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
March 30th, 2011, 21:07
Thanks Stratobat! Old thread or not: I was planning on taking up the painting and building again, so this is very welcome.

:wavey:

Cees

Stratobat
March 31st, 2011, 17:24
You're welcome, Cees :wavey:

Regards,
Stratobat

gaucho_59
April 1st, 2011, 08:58
Hi there guys,

Was wondering: is there a tutorial on how to ceate the scalloped look of linen clad wings WWI style?

Thanks

Cees

Check my work and see if it is what you are looking for... it it is, I can tell you how to do it

Cees Donker
April 1st, 2011, 14:10
Yes that's it!

Cees

Stratobat
April 1st, 2011, 17:45
Looking very nice, Gaucho :cool:

Regards,
Stratobat

tobob
April 3rd, 2011, 10:35
Nice work Gaucho!:wiggle:

I would like to see your techniques as well!

tobob

gaucho_59
April 3rd, 2011, 12:53
The technique is fairly simple...
First... I must tell you that I have worked exclusively with PSP since the early days... I am up to PSP XII... the technique I am sure can be equally worked with Photoshop...
Obviously it requires a bit of an artistic hand and experience with air painting (real ones or the one tool in PSP)... as well as working in layers with changing opacities.
Basically, if it is a repaint... you NEED TO CLEAN UP THE ORIGINAL to bare basic background color (i.e.: eliminating the crude straight lines simulating ribs) [on this, I start with the basic single texture, copy it in a layer above... go back and paint the wing, stabilizer, or fuselage etc. the base color in the background layer)... THEN, decrease the copied layer in opacity to barely visible - to use it as a guide to place the repaint)... ] YOU CAN LEAVE IT AS A TOP LAYER AND PAINT LAYERS UNDERNEATH OVER THE BACKGROUND..
Once this is accomplished you eliminate that copied original but lighter layer...
So, you create a first layer for the ribs
I start one rib at a time... with a single line... use the diffusing tool and blurr it ... then on a layer immediately above... paint a thin line in white or whatever light color best suits the theme.. blurr it... and when the desired effect (trial and error.. you should have your PSP redos to a large number so you can go back and forth when you make mistakes) is accomplished, you merge that reflected light line over the darker wider diffused line in the layer below... That done... you continue to refine the rib shape conformation to your satisfaction... using this layer merging technique...
After you are finished... you duplicate that rib over and over the length of the flying surface... remember to make the rib longer than the width of the wing.. [on the rib layer]
When you deem it finished.. you can trim off the excess lengths with the shape tool set to 1 or 2 steps of feathering...
At this time you have two layers.. 1. background and 2. ribs immediately above...
START a new layer... where you put the leading edge sorftened reflected light [2 or 3 feather steps using the rectangle shape tool... or freehand... a light spray of white... and monkeying with the opacity of the layer to obtain the nice feathered reflected light effect...
YOU HAVE NOW 3 LAYERS.. 1. background 2. ribs and 3. reflected lights
The next upper layer.. you shape the perimeter of flaps a/o ailerons... and lay a soft black area (that you can set opacity to a nice subtle effect) you start another layer for a thin soft reflected light at the leading edge very close to the dark outline... using the rectangle tool... or free-hand.. draw this light line... when the desired effect is obtainged.. merge it to the darkish outline layer)
NOW YOU HAVE 4 LAYERS... background.. ribs.. reflected lights and aileron, flap a/or trim tabs...
GOING BACK TO THE RIB LAYER AND USING THE LATTER LAYER AS A GUIDE... ERASE THOSE AREAS IN THE RIB LAYER (if at all, the flying surfaces ribs are smaller than the wing sections and you can deal with them in the same manner)
As a final touch.. you can add a top layer (nr. 5 ) for overall reflected highlights... [I usually do a sharp, fairly thin rectangle of white... then spread all across the wing with the gaussian blurr adjustment tool and delineated over actual perimeter of the wing..
[again to my personal taste and impression].. and set the opacity of this layer to what one thinks should be a subtle reflected light tone]
You can then monkey around with the relative opacity of the layers to blend them into a homogenous finish...
THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND: 1. A merged top layer of lowered opacity will take on the opacity of the lower layer it is merged into... so to keep the desired opacity... blend the lower into the upper... otherwise you have to rework opacity to what your layers had when they were visually merged but not physically merged (so to speak because all these layers are not really phisically entities anyway) I guess I should use the work ACTUALLY instead of physically in the first place...
I came to this technique through trial and error... trying different tools and approaches.. and frankly... quite by serendipity...
If you have any questions you can contact me anytime... or
You can visit my site: http://westwood.fortunecity.com/chanel/132/index.html
where you can see some of my work in aeronautical illustrations where you might get some ideas and can ask me how I do this of that...to incorporate it into your repaints...
Happy repainting... and clear skies.
[ps: I never thought about a tutorial on this so I need to prepare some intermediate step illustrations... but I hope this little discussion gets you going...]

gaucho_59
April 3rd, 2011, 20:13
The technique is fairly simple...
First... I must tell you that I have worked exclusively with PSP since the early days... I am up to PSP XII... the technique I am sure can be equally worked with Photoshop...
Obviously it requires a bit of an artistic hand and experience with air painting (real ones or the one tool in PSP)... as well as working in layers with changing opacities.
Basically, if it is a repaint... you NEED TO CLEAN UP THE ORIGINAL to bare basic background color (i.e.: eliminating the crude straight lines simulating ribs) [on this, I start with the basic single texture, copy it in a layer above... go back and paint the wing, stabilizer, or fuselage etc. the base color in the background layer)... THEN, decrease the copied layer in opacity to barely visible - to use it as a guide to place the repaint)... ] YOU CAN LEAVE IT AS A TOP LAYER AND PAINT LAYERS UNDERNEATH OVER THE BACKGROUND..
Once this is accomplished you eliminate that copied original but lighter layer...
So, you create a first layer for the ribs
I start one rib at a time... with a single line... use the diffusing tool and blurr it ... then on a layer immediately above... paint a thin line in white or whatever light color best suits the theme.. blurr it... and when the desired effect (trial and error.. you should have your PSP redos to a large number so you can go back and forth when you make mistakes) is accomplished, you merge that reflected light line over the darker wider diffused line in the layer below... That done... you continue to refine the rib shape conformation to your satisfaction... using this layer merging technique...
After you are finished... you duplicate that rib over and over the length of the flying surface... remember to make the rib longer than the width of the wing.. [on the rib layer]
When you deem it finished.. you can trim off the excess lengths with the shape tool set to 1 or 2 steps of feathering...
At this time you have two layers.. 1. background and 2. ribs immediately above...
START a new layer... where you put the leading edge sorftened reflected light [2 or 3 feather steps using the rectangle shape tool... or freehand... a light spray of white... and monkeying with the opacity of the layer to obtain the nice feathered reflected light effect...
YOU HAVE NOW 3 LAYERS.. 1. background 2. ribs and 3. reflected lights
The next upper layer.. you shape the perimeter of flaps a/o ailerons... and lay a soft black area (that you can set opacity to a nice subtle effect) you start another layer for a thin soft reflected light at the leading edge very close to the dark outline... using the rectangle tool... or free-hand.. draw this light line... when the desired effect is obtainged.. merge it to the darkish outline layer)
NOW YOU HAVE 4 LAYERS... background.. ribs.. reflected lights and aileron, flap a/or trim tabs...
GOING BACK TO THE RIB LAYER AND USING THE LATTER LAYER AS A GUIDE... ERASE THOSE AREAS IN THE RIB LAYER (if at all, the flying surfaces ribs are smaller than the wing sections and you can deal with them in the same manner)
As a final touch.. you can add a top layer (nr. 5 ) for overall reflected highlights... [I usually do a sharp, fairly thin rectangle of white... then spread all across the wing with the gaussian blurr adjustment tool and delineated over actual perimeter of the wing..
[again to my personal taste and impression].. and set the opacity of this layer to what one thinks should be a subtle reflected light tone]
You can then monkey around with the relative opacity of the layers to blend them into a homogenous finish...
THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND: 1. A merged top layer of lowered opacity will take on the opacity of the lower layer it is merged into... so to keep the desired opacity... blend the lower into the upper... otherwise you have to rework opacity to what your layers had when they were visually merged but not physically merged (so to speak because all these layers are not really phisically entities anyway) I guess I should use the work ACTUALLY instead of physically in the first place...
I came to this technique through trial and error... trying different tools and approaches.. and frankly... quite by serendipity...
If you have any questions you can contact me anytime... or
You can visit my site: http://westwood.fortunecity.com/chanel/132/index.html
where you can see some of my work in aeronautical illustrations where you might get some ideas and can ask me how I do this of that...to incorporate it into your repaints...
Happy repainting... and clear skies.
[ps: I never thought about a tutorial on this so I need to prepare some intermediate step illustrations... but I hope this little discussion gets you going...]

I prepared a quick illustration of the steps tutored above... All luxury of details can be added in a layer above all the others or where judged opportune (i.e.: sawn seams, hardware, cap covers, etc.... adjusting its opacity to best match the overall tone of the textured)

34527

As stated previously direct any questions you might have and will endeavour to answer them as best I can... {Pardon this quick and dirty attempt at a tutorial, but it is the best I could come up with on short notice...}

gaucho_59
April 3rd, 2011, 20:16
I prepared a quick illustration of the steps tutored above... All luxury of details can be added in a layer above all the others or where judged opportune (i.e.: sawn seams, hardware, cap covers, etc.... adjusting its opacity to best match the overall tone of the textured)

34527

As stated previously direct any questions you might have and will endeavour to answer them as best I can... {Pardon this quick and dirty attempt at a tutorial, but it is the best I could come up with on short notice...}
Pardon the minor error (rib line going over into aileron... but I think it renders the idea.. faux pas and all)

PomBee
April 6th, 2011, 14:49
Thanks for this tutorial, gaucho_59. This will be very useful for the Hawker Fury MkI that I'm building.

Cheers,

PomBee.:salute::salute::salute:

gaucho_59
April 22nd, 2011, 08:25
Thanks for this tutorial, gaucho_59. This will be very useful for the Hawker Fury MkI that I'm building.

Cheers,

PomBee.:salute::salute::salute:
I just redid the new Corbel for my own use... and a better looking example of the wing ribbing technique results... (all done within the last 15 minutes... once you get the swing of it... it takes no time to redo or Do new skins with ribs)
35706

Cees Donker
May 6th, 2011, 02:12
I'm getting there, but I'm not satisfied yet!

Cees

Seagull V
May 6th, 2011, 02:35
Hello Cees

Looking good !!!! :applause:
I can't quite tell if you have used an airbrush effect to spray a white section down the inside/low section of each trough. It would need some experimenting, with say a density of 10 to 20 and an opacity of say 5 to 20, with a width to give that 3D look. Have a try and don't hesitate to experiment a bit, make sure it's also on a different layer so you also use the different layer effects/types as well.

Cees Donker
May 6th, 2011, 02:55
Seagull,

I'll try that! I didn't do it yet!

Cees

Edit: there's now white inbetween....

Seagull V
May 6th, 2011, 04:16
Hello Cees

Definately adds to the effect. Sometimes the ridges look better white with the troughs darker, sometimes it's the other way around, on the few I have done I have swapped them around until it looks the best. The main thing to remember is that it needs to be applied the same way over the model or it starts to look a bit strange, I recall Gaucho mentioning that as well somewhere. I also use a similar effect around panel lines, usually a bit of trial and error until it looks right.

Cees Donker
May 6th, 2011, 14:03
After I have these outlined I can ask Huub to do his art. We'll see.

Cees

RobH
May 6th, 2011, 14:03
Cees, I am not familiar with the plane you are painting, so not sure if the ribbing is supposed to have hard edges or soft edges, but I personally like the tutorial that Stratobat posted. I personally like the 3d effects it gives.

With the method I use, you can of course adjust the opacity to make them softer or harder edge.

37131

gaucho_59
May 6th, 2011, 14:09
I'm getting there, but I'm not satisfied yet!

Cees

37132
I think you must be skipping one or more steps on the tutorial...
you are looking for something more like this... right?

gaucho_59
May 6th, 2011, 14:14
I'm getting there, but I'm not satisfied yet!

Cees
I answered this somewhere else.. but just in case you miss it...
I think you are skipping one or more steps on the tutorial I tried to show...
You are looking for an effect more like this...
37133

Cees Donker
May 6th, 2011, 14:18
I answered this somewhere else.. but just in case you miss it...
I think you are skipping one or more steps on the tutorial I tried to show...
You are looking for an effect more like this...
37133

Yes, that's it!

Cees

Cees Donker
May 6th, 2011, 14:24
Cees, I am not familiar with the plane you are painting, so not sure if the ribbing is supposed to have hard edges or soft edges, but I personally like the tutorial that Stratobat posted. I personally like the 3d effects it gives.

With the method I use, you can of course adjust the opacity to make them softer or harder edge.

37131

That looks great Rob!

Cees

Cees Donker
May 6th, 2011, 22:37
Better.....but still a long way to go!

:kilroy:

Cees

Cees Donker
May 7th, 2011, 09:20
Only softening of the front edges perhaps? I only did the upper wings, the elvators and ailerons are next.

Cees

full
May 7th, 2011, 09:39
Cees, is this your first aircraft model ?

If so its looks very good !

gaucho_59
May 7th, 2011, 10:28
Only softening of the front edges perhaps? I only did the upper wings, the elvators and ailerons are next.

Cees

You are getting the idea now.... However, keep in mind the SCALE effect!! the upper edge of the rib (light part) is WAY TOO WIDE! In a real plane it looks like it woud be like half a foot wide...Remember the light part (edge of the rib) is maybe ... tops... about an a quarter inch wide or so... if you notice on the quickie example I did for you... the edge is very thin... for the surface of the wing has to be really quite flat... otherwise such a scallopped surface would create all sorts of vortices that in turn translate into parasytic drag.. which in turn would greatly affect lift...
So get that edge that catches and refracts light as thin as you can... Also, as an aside, the ailerons have their own SMALLER ribs...which of course cannot catch the light in the same manner as the wing... so that edge glint effect is going to have to be, again, much fainter... and differen in shape... check the wing I posted above on the Corbel wing in OD color...

Cees Donker
May 7th, 2011, 11:16
Cees, is this your first aircraft model ?

If so its looks very good !

Thank you! I started last summer on a D.XVI. That is one is very near completion. But as I have that idiotic habit of starting other projects without first finishing the first one, I have three planes in the 'factory'. The D.XVI needs textures, which I'm learning now on this S.IV.

:wavey:

Cees

Cees Donker
May 7th, 2011, 11:19
You are getting the idea now.... However, keep in mind the SCALE effect!! the upper edge of the rib (light part) is WAY TOO WIDE! In a real plane it looks like it woud be like half a foot wide...Remember the light part (edge of the rib) is maybe ... tops... about an a quarter inch wide or so... if you notice on the quickie example I did for you... the edge is very thin... for the surface of the wing has to be really quite flat... otherwise such a scallopped surface would create all sorts of vortices that in turn translate into parasytic drag.. which in turn would greatly affect lift...
So get that edge that catches and refracts light as thin as you can... Also, as an aside, the ailerons have their own SMALLER ribs...which of course cannot catch the light in the same manner as the wing... so that edge glint effect is going to have to be, again, much fainter... and differen in shape... check the wing I posted above on the Corbel wing in OD color...

Thank you gaucho! Vary valuable advice!

Cees

gaucho_59
May 7th, 2011, 12:14
Thank you gaucho! Vary valuable advice!

Cees
Here is another... more refined example... I am redoing the Grumman Duck...
Just be patient and keep redoing till you get it just the way I know you want it...
You are certainly progressing fast... Let me see your next step on this dutch plane you are doing...37256

Cees Donker
May 7th, 2011, 14:52
Nice work on the ailerons Gaucho. The cocardes/nationality markings do look a bit wierd? Perhaps on the wrong place in the layer hierarchy?

Cees

Stratobat
May 7th, 2011, 14:56
Hey Cees,

Looking very good :cool:

When you're done with the ribbing, have a look at this tutorial:

- http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/f37-photoshop-tutorials/making-surface-texture-effects-463/

You don't have to follow all the steps in the tutorial but if you place the flowers below the ribbing layers and just above the base colour layer and set it to overlay (I think) and then turn down the opacity to roughly 20%, it'll break up the base colour a little and give it a slightly weathered/ scuffed look.

You can also duplicate the flowers layer and invert the colour and add a little motion blur in the direction of the airflow to increase the weathered look but be subtle; it's very easy to over do it :)

There's a zip file in the comments section below the tutorial.

Regards,
Stratobat

gaucho_59
May 7th, 2011, 16:54
Nice work on the ailerons Gaucho. The cocardes/nationality markings do look a bit wierd? Perhaps on the wrong place in the layer hierarchy?

Cees
3729037291

Indeed.... they probably are a bit on the large side... I just left them the original size...I think they can stand to be reduced by 10% or so... I have the original in layers so I can change the size... and maybe the position too...gotta look at some pictures of the real thing and see how they were back in the prewar era...
They are in the right layer though... the fabric highlights show through them...as they should... Good observation though! I am still at the beginning of the repaint...so things can be changed...

Cees Donker
May 8th, 2011, 09:20
Hey Cees,

Looking very good :cool:

When you're done with the ribbing, have a look at this tutorial:

- http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/f37-photoshop-tutorials/making-surface-texture-effects-463/

You don't have to follow all the steps in the tutorial but if you place the flowers below the ribbing layers and just above the base colour layer and set it to overlay (I think) and then turn down the opacity to roughly 20%, it'll break up the base colour a little and give it a slightly weathered/ scuffed look.

You can also duplicate the flowers layer and invert the colour and add a little motion blur in the direction of the airflow to increase the weathered look but be subtle; it's very easy to over do it :)

There's a zip file in the comments section below the tutorial.

Regards,
Stratobat

I remember that from the paintkit for the ww2 fighters Me109 by ICDP! Nice effect. I mean the noise witht the gaussian blur.

Cees

Cees Donker
May 15th, 2011, 12:00
Modelling, painting, fine tuning, a huge learning proces. Time for a little tongue in cheek.....

Cees

Stratobat
May 16th, 2011, 03:17
It's really starting to take shape, Cees... Looking very good :applause:

Could you post a screenshot of the tail area please?

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 16th, 2011, 09:47
Never try to elude the eye of a repainter!:icon_lol: That is the section that needs reworking, not only the paintjob but also the modelling.

:jump:

Cees

Stratobat
May 17th, 2011, 06:29
Hey Cees,


That is the section that needs reworking, not only the paintjob but also the modelling.

Are you also planning on modelling the internal metal structure for the virtual cockpit? :jump:

- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pvdac/4435284800/

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 17th, 2011, 07:46
Hey Strat,

Yes. I contacted the man who's in charge of the restauration of that S.IV, Dick Funcke, and he promised to send some drawings of the cockpit, the interior. Most things in the cockpit will be animated. I can visit the site of the retauration as it is only a one and a half hour drive from where I live!

:salute:

Cees

Stratobat
May 18th, 2011, 02:54
Hey Cees,

That's pretty cool :applause:

Do you know if the restoration team has a website or a blog?

Would be nice to keep track of the restoration as it progresses :cool:

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 18th, 2011, 06:12
Yes they have!

http://www.aviodrome.nl/collecties-en-projecten/projecten/restauratie-fokker-s4

Cees

Stratobat
May 18th, 2011, 17:35
Hey Cees,

That is an impressive restoration project!

The PDF's in the logbook section were very interesting :cool:

Thank you for the link.

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 18th, 2011, 21:40
You're welcome! Lot's of interesting photo's in the PDF's. Often valuable for my reconstruction.....

Cees

Cees Donker
May 19th, 2011, 20:32
Hey Cees,



Are you also planning on modelling the internal metal structure for the virtual cockpit? :jump:

- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pvdac/4435284800/

Regards,
Stratobat

Just a working/flying version, to get all the animations working: gas, stick, footpedals ( screenshots are in reverse: footpedals first). It will take a lot more work, but I know where I'm going. Starting on the inner frame this weekend.

Cees

Seagull V
May 20th, 2011, 15:53
Hello Cees

Keeps getting better with every step you make !!!!!! Great work. :jump::applause:

Regards SGV

Stratobat
May 22nd, 2011, 19:42
Hey Cees,

The attention to detail with the cables is a very nice touch... Makes the pedal animations look realistic :applause:

Are you also going to use photoreal textures in the cockpit?

How did you create the the inner section for the wheel?

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 22nd, 2011, 20:09
Hey Stratobat,

The inner section for the wheel is made out of one piece. That doesn't work as you can see. I'll have to split it up, just like the real thing. Off course everything needs to be textured, but I don't know if I'm going to use photorealistic textures. I'm working on a different stick, in fact a set of sticks.

Cees

Stratobat
May 22nd, 2011, 20:29
Hey Cees,


The inner section for the wheel is made out of one piece. That doesn't work as you can see. I'll have to split it up, just like the real thing.

The one in the screenshots below was done using an eighteen sided cylinder. All I did was move the points inward from the outside edge.

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 23rd, 2011, 07:00
Hey Cees,



The one in the screenshots below was done using an eighteen sided cylinder. All I did was move the points inward from the outside edge.

Regards,
Stratobat

I used the same method. Gmax or FSDS?

Cees

Stratobat
May 23rd, 2011, 09:24
Hey Cees,

All done in Gmax.

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 23rd, 2011, 09:45
FSDS has a tendency to 'leak' poly's over the assigned borders with these constructions. But it a much less steep learning curve....

Cees

Edit: Made a new wheel....more detail.

Stratobat
May 25th, 2011, 02:13
Hey Cees,

That looks very nice - Wow! :applause:

Just one thing... Don't forget the crumple issue when exporting into Flight Simulator. You may find that the nuts in the centre section crumple back on themselves.

Regards,
Stratobat

Cees Donker
May 25th, 2011, 05:47
Hey Cees,

That looks very nice - Wow! :applause:

Just one thing... Don't forget the crumple issue when exporting into Flight Simulator. You may find that the nuts in the centre section crumple back on themselves.

Regards,
Stratobat

How do you avoid that crumple issue Stratobat? I think I have seen that effect.

Cees

Stratobat
May 25th, 2011, 06:42
Hey Cees,

I'm not sure if it affects FSDS and Gmax or just Gmax but from my understanding there are two issues when building models for FS 2004. The first is the 65,000 poly limit and the second is the 4mm weld issue which causes small details to crumple back on themselves when run through the export module.

If you contact Bill (Lionheart) he should be able to tell you about it.

Regards,
Stratobat