Pirates

[blazefox2]

Why do people pirate the products that companies work so hard to make? Do they not realize that if everyone pirated software, we would not have the quality products that we have? How hard is it to spend $50 on a product, and to call it yours and to be able to have the support of the staff that made it. But instead they choose to download it illegaly and if their product is malfuctioning, they choose to ask other people on other sites like youtube.

And its not only products that are pirated, a few youtube users decide to take someone elses video and call it their own. What is the point of this??? for me it is much more rewarding and fun to make and edit MY video to match my personality.

[Ken Stallings]

Kind of an ages old question. Ultimately, they are people who cannot value the work of others.

Perhaps the best comment I have heard on the subject came from a noted payware designer, Barry Bromley, who essentially said that these people would never be customers anyway. So, perhaps it might amount to advertising for those with the morality to pay fairly.

I think some select people have never understood that intellectual property is just as precious as physical property.

This is the best answer that I can give!

Ken

[Lionheart]

Some people go into a walmart and buy what they need.

Some people go into a walmart and steal what they want.


Same with the web.

[peter12213]

What Ken said, but also unfortunately its far too easy to do these days its just one of those things, but at least all of us here are honest hard working folks who pay for what we want!

[Dangerousdave26]

Funny you should say that LH

A number of years ago I was working late at night in a Sam's club doing some cabling. In the break room they had a sign that read some thing to the affect...

Great job...

Month of Feb...

We only lost $6,000 in DVDs in our shrinkage.

To which I said ???

$6,000 in one month and they were happy with that.

[Shylock]

Funny you should say that LH

A number of years ago I was working late at night in a Sam's club doing some cabling. In the break room they had a sign that read some thing to the affect...

Great job...

Month of Feb...

We only lost $6,000 in DVDs in our shrinkage.

To which I said ???

$6,000 in one month and they were happy with that.

I remember when I worked in retail years back and they had a person come in and ask "Does anybody here know what causes Shrinkage?" I damn near lost it and had to raise my hand. lol

Like they say "If somebody wants it bad enough, their going to get it" and that normally means by theft. Its a shame but its the world we live in. Juts like the kids who like to hack sites and give out viruses.

[Z-DarthVader]

What Ken said, but also unfortunately its far too easy to do these days its just one of those things, but at least all of us here are honest hard working folks who pay for what we want!

Indeed! But even the big search engines like google or bing don't really help protecting intellectual property either.

And I'm not even beginning about things like filecrop!

As long as there is something like the internet, there will always be piracy...

Just my two cents worth!

[Snave]

Indeed! But even the big search engines like google or bing don't really help protecting intellectual property either.

And I'm not even beginning about things like filecrop!

As long as there is something like the internet, there will always be piracy...

Just my two cents worth!

You are aware that the name and image of Darth Vader is a registered trademark..?

Not all piracy is intentional...

But there's no point in moralising about it. Thieves have low morals and wouldn't listen, and the non-pirates only agree and assume higher moral values, when they probably also have at least one or two bytes of pirated software on their computers.

I could tell you a story about a noted developer who are virulently anti-pirate yet distributed pirated software to beta testers. But I won't.

NONE of us is truly `pure`. What we are discussing is the relativity. Commercial vendors do what they can to protect their intellectual copyright but the simplest solution is not to provide any support to pirates, nor `entertain` them by discussion. If they can't get satisfaction from the piracy either in deed or word, then and only then do they lose.

[Milamber]

The "honest injun" will also be paying a small premium as part of the purchase price to assist in minimising the loss to the developer through shrinkage. Purchase usually means "a licence to use" rather than ownership of the product. To the best of my knowledge, I have no "iffy" software on my machines - I even looked hard for a free to use insignia for my avatar. Today, it is often the case [not FS related] that a 3 licence offering is available for little more than the cost of a singleton and, where needed, I purchase these variants. I have absolutely no time for people who indulge in the illegal activity.

M.

[txnetcop]

Honest people will always be picking up the tab for low-life pirates. The good news is that we can still get our quality products for our hobby.
Ted

[Blue]

I lurk a lot but I wanted to jump in here.

Years ago while in college I worked for Target as one of their Asset Protection Specialist. That is their big name for the under cover security that catches shoplifters and employees stealing. It would blow your mind how much money simply walks out the door in just one store alone year to year. Piracy is just like that. The storefront is different but the theft is just the same.

On that note though I do think that some companies here in the flightsim community are a bit quick to jump on people and accuse them of stealing their product. I myself ran into this back in FS2004 with an FSD product. The product stopped working. I e-mailed support. I had them pull up my account. They were staring at my license for the product that I bought and paid for, the product in question that had stopped working. They asked for the code that it was giving when I gave them the code and the guy starts telling me I got the code because I downloaded the aircraft illegally. I am not sure how that is possible since I did buy the aircraft and he did have the receipt for my aircraft. In his defense he did provide me with a piece of software that fixed my registry and ultimately made things right again. I later found the issue stemmed from a registry cleaner and spy-ware software I had installed. However the whole thing was enough for me to swear off ever buying another piece of software from that company again. A company which prior to that I had purchased quite a bit from.

The point I am making is back when I worked for Target as APS there were ROE. These ROE protected not only us personally but also legally. They also kept mistakes from happening. I am not going to post what they all are for obvious reasons but I will tell you I never made an accusation against someone unless I was 100% sure they had met our five standards (I am sure this has changed this was back in the late 90s). The worst thing you could do was grab a woman up at the door after seeing her slip a light bulb in her purse thinking she stole it only to find out later she actually brought said bulb into the store to try to find an exact replacement. I saw two people loose their jobs over that one because they didn't follow ROE's. And while nobody will likely get fired here there are plenty of customers to run off. I am one of them. Something you developers might want to think about. :)

[Ken Stallings]

Blue,

You have a total of six posts and in that last one you posted more information of value and probing thought than most people, myself included, will post in a 1,000 posts!

Ken

[dswo]

Many people steal software who would never steal light bulbs, because the former is easy, they can do it from home, and their friends do it too. The real question, I think, is what regulates your actions: justice or utility? conscience or shame?

[N2056]

While I agree with the ROE thing, the massive advantage you had there was the fact that you could actually SEE the crime occur. That certainly makes things easier! In cyberland the best you can do is trust whatever indications you have available and hope for the best when it comes to trying to detect if your product was stolen. We are all aware some groups have better systems than others, and I doubt anyone's system is perfect.

Blue, for what it is worth I am pretty sure FSD no longer uses that system on products now being released due to the problems it has caused in the past.

[gigabyte]

Software and computer code in general is to many people not considered theft - not that I believe for 1 second that it is not, but the simple fact that it can be copied and does not require any physical material to produce makes it easy in practical terms. Those who knowingly copy and use any computer code without proper payment or permission in the case of shareware/freeware are pirating, clear and simple.

There is one point that is often overlooked tho and that is some of the EULA's used by mainly the larger developers, are so much legaleze it is often hard to know if you are complying or not. The height of "Stupidity" for me is the Dell EULA, when you purchase a Dell system the warning screen appears on the screen requiring you to confirm you have read and agree to the terms, although you are not able to read the terms! The terms of the EULA are in a sealed package and it states that you are confirming your agreement with the Terms and Conditions by opening the wrapper - these are the terms and conditions you are not able to read because they are sealed inside a plastice wrapper... and the last time I checked you are not able to find these Terms and Conditions on the Dell Site or in any published documents unless you open a package...

I had a real interesting conversation with a supervisor on Dell Tech Support one time about this very subject, and after 30 minutes she was unable to explain how I could review and accept an agreement that I was not able to read. Bottom line is the warning on the package is useless but very confusing when you really look at the whole picture.

I am in no way defending pirates, but I know the way some of the agreements and licences are written makes it hard for even us honest folks to follow the spirit and true meaning of the EULA.

[pilottj]

Indeed! But even the big search engines like google or bing don't really help protecting intellectual property either.

And I'm not even beginning about things like filecrop!

As long as there is something like the internet, there will always be piracy...

Just my two cents worth!

Yeah Google doesn't help. Years ago when PSS was around, I had wanted to reinstall one of their products into FS2k4. I had forgotten what their URL was so I went to google to look it up. Google listed the pirate site links before the PSS page. It wasnt like the pirate links were on the 50th page or somthing, they were the first or second link.

[Blue]

Ken, thanks. If only my wife thought I was that insightful. She normally just roll's her eyes and tells me to shut up. :salute:

N2056, it is good to hear that they have changed their system. However in my opinion their software system was not the failure that day. At some point I am sure FSD will put out an aircraft that I just can't resist. I have never been one to hold a grudge, even over what I would call bad customer service. Fortunately for me nothing has came out of their camp lately that I want so it makes my vowel an easy one to keep. Though an updated PC6 would be hard to resist.. :wiggle:

Dswo, I think in a lot of ways you are spot on. It is far easier to steal software then it is to steal from an actual store. It really comes down to morals. Some people have them some people don't.

[N2056]

It really comes down to morals. Some people have them some people don't.

Well said! That really does sum it all up.

[Tim_FSD]

While I agree with the ROE thing, the massive advantage you had there was the fact that you could actually SEE the crime occur. That certainly makes things easier! In cyberland the best you can do is trust whatever indications you have available and hope for the best when it comes to trying to detect if your product was stolen. We are all aware some groups have better systems than others, and I doubt anyone's system is perfect.

Blue, for what it is worth I am pretty sure FSD no longer uses that system on products now being released due to the problems it has caused in the past.

That is correct. In a general distribution product like addons fore Flight Simulator aggressive protection systems are simply too unstable. A lot of people make hardware and OS changes, which is what a strong anti piracy system relies on. If one is selling high end workplace products and such it would be a different story.

We use a pretty straightforward license system now that is very user friendly. And we have on many occasions publicly apologized for the problems the more powerful system created.