fde question..

[warchild]

I'm wondering. Can anyone tell me or suggest why FSX joystick controls will go completely bi-polar and over amped on me after a few minutes of pushing a plane to its limits??? This happens across multiple and seperate versions of the same fde.. Each FDE was built from scratch and uses slightly different calculations throughout ( I aint no genius nor have i got a degree soo, i have to make SOME guesses on a math problem here and therw ).. after a few minutes of back flips and pirouettes, the plane will go into hair trigger mode on the joystick ( dont breathe on it ) and completely out of control.. its really driving me batty.. I almost feel like i'm breaking FSX each time.. leveling off and flying normally for a few minutes does not alleviate the condition, sooo, its really weird..
Thanks in advance
Pam

[fliger747]

Hi:

I haven't experienced this, but haven't really tried hard enough. No great ideas except it could be some damage scenario left over from the dark desperate days of dogfighting zeros and 109's from the CFS series. FS does seem to have an accumulated damage memory as far as landing gear goes. Just as overspeed and (I believe) overload have ccumulated time and intensity built into their failure dynamics.

If you find out let us know! T

[warchild]

Ohhhhh.. interesting.. I didnt know that.. thank you.. definately ngonna follow up on this one.. am open to other ideas too :) :) ..

[bstolle]

That's really strange, haven't experienced that either and I did lots of hammerheads, flatspins, knifedge and snap rolls with the Milviz 310 for example.
When I build and test new FDEs I have all the damage possibilities switched off in the realism menu.
If T. is correct, disabling them might solve the 'accumulation' problem.

Best

Bernt

[warchild]

yes, all the damages are switched off.. even after a complete re-install of the joystic software ( in case that was the issue ) flight sim still slowly goes into its madness..
The routine sounds simple. youve all seen it on youtube.. Take off go vertical. at the top of the stall flip back and over as you fall. apply throttle rudder and elevator to put the plane into a spiral as you descend. apply full power out and set up for the third event.
do a slow flat turn back towards the field. accelerate gently and pull the nose back to 105 degrees. hild the position while standing on the engines thrust then nose forward after fifteen seconds and fly off the field. As you fly from the field, begin a slow climbing turn and apply full rudder inducing a sliding turn to position yourself back over the field. Pull hard back on th stick to flip over on your back while killing the thrust, and rolling over again apply a hard stick and thrust to continue flying in the original direction..
its a simple routine, and right towards the end of it, every single time, the sim goes haywire and the plane becomes so hair triggered shes uncontrollable.. everything is fine until at some point, some two numbers collide and it starts spiraling into madness.. Of course, I also being spiraling into madness.. I believe the clash is during the flat vertical spin ( like a seed from a tree). I can com0pleyely control it, but its taking the application of every single control mechanism including the engines at their most extreme limit.. That appears to be the trigger., but frankly, its happened so many times in so many ways i cant be sure any more..

[Snave]

yes, all the damages are switched off.. even after a complete re-install of the joystic software ( in case that was the issue ) flight sim still slowly goes into its madness..
The routine sounds simple. youve all seen it on youtube.. Take off go vertical. at the top of the stall flip back and over as you fall. apply throttle rudder and elevator to put the plane into a spiral as you descend. apply full power out and set up for the third event.
do a slow flat turn back towards the field. accelerate gently and pull the nose back to 105 degrees. hild the position while standing on the engines thrust then nose forward after fifteen seconds and fly off the field. As you fly from the field, begin a slow climbing turn and apply full rudder inducing a sliding turn to position yourself back over the field. Pull hard back on th stick to flip over on your back while killing the thrust, and rolling over again apply a hard stick and thrust to continue flying in the original direction..

its a simple routine, and right towards the end of it, every single time, the sim goes haywire and the plane becomes so hair triggered shes uncontrollable.. everything is fine until at some point, some two numbers collide and it starts spiraling into madness.. Of course, I also being spiraling into madness.. I believe the clash is during the flat vertical spin ( like a seed from a tree). I can com0pleyely control it, but its taking the application of every single control mechanism including the engines at their most extreme limit.. That appears to be the trigger., but frankly, its happened so many times in so many ways i cant be sure any more..

Hit the `pause` key, wait 15-20 seconds, then unpause. Does that fix it..?

[stansdds]

I can think of a couple of things.

Exceeding the design parameters of the airframe or control surfaces.

Joystick pots are worn and lose their calibration when pushed to their maximums.

[Lionheart]

Hey Pam,

I had a X-49 Saitek and never had problems. I got the X-52 Saitek and now in FSX the rudder keeps messing up after say 20 min's (not always, but usually this scenario at that time element. Whats worse is X-52 has a new software that doesnt have the ability to reset except when you reboot the game. Horrible if you are online flying with friends as you have to reboot the computer to reset the joystick.


I think your joystick may be the culprit. Sounds like it to me. You may have to take a step down in joysticks, but you'll be more relieved..

Test this 'first' by using a diff joysticks and see if it gives you troubles. Borrow one from a friend and see if this happens and if I am right, then just get a diff joystick and see if that one works better for you. You can always keep your old one and use it at diff times and use your 'work' joystick for tuning planes.

It would be nice if someone could create a joystick reset button software that would be located say on your desktop. Just pause FS and reset the joystick and continue. My X-49 could do this in the FS Options center.


Bill

[warchild]

Thanks Guys.. and yeahh.. I'm thinking you may be right Bill.. The X-49 used pots, the X-52 uses HAL sensors. I'm not certain how they work, but i belive they use some form of magnetic inductance (resistance) to determine the position of the stick. Under normal flying conditions there wouldnt be any problem but under extended extreme conditions where all three axis's are put into and held in one position for and extended length of time, only to be slammed into another extreme position and held there, well, i dont really know. I once had an opportunity to buy a joystick that had originally been in an F-16. Kinda sorry i didnt find a way to get it at the time..
The odd thing is, Ipaused the game last night and went out for hamburgers and ws gone half an hour. When i returned, it was still unstable the slightest breath would cause the plane to dance and pirouette its way to several thousand feet, without thrust.. I've recalculated all the prime numbers including the MAC several times thinking i made a mistake somewhere. I still feel theres something wrong in the numbers as well if they were wrong, wouldnt the sim show it right from the beginning instead of ten or twenty minutes into the flight??

[bstolle]

Are you experiencing this after repeating the exact sequence a few times after 20min or if you arrive after 20min at a certain maneuver?
Check the AoA when this occurs. I noticed that quite a few planes are not even designed to 'fly' at AoA between 90 and 270deg...
If it's the later, and the FDEs are not designed for the full 360deg AoA range, it's likely that FSX starts doing strange things when you are doing certain maneuvers and had high yaw/roll/pitch rates when starting the maneuver.
Note that even 'real' multimillion dollar sims are basically 'procedure trainers' and they become very imprecise at the very edge of their performance envelope.

[warchild]

I can think of a couple of things.

Exceeding the design parameters of the airframe or control surfaces.

Joystick pots are worn and lose their calibration when pushed to their maximums.

I believe you also have a very good suggestion. this is where i believe i am making mistakes. The science behind the design of the Flanker family is called Dynamic Instability. At least, thats what the father of the flankers said it was in an interview. But dynamic instability is the science behind the study of the air movement at the leading edge of a squall line ( clouds ).. I'm still learning how to translate that into fsx, and I'm no genius.. I'm just tenacious as hell. but i think i'm making some big mistakes somewhere, or maybe it simply is not something that can be done without a computer siting at the heart of the plane keeping it stable.. I'm just not willing to give it up that easily.

[peter12213]

I Need a new stick and was going to get the X52Pro but I don't like what I'm reading here, should I get one?

[peter12213]

I believe you also have a very good suggestion. this is where i believe i am making mistakes. The science behind the design of the Flanker family is called Dynamic Instability. At least, thats what the father of the flankers said it was in an interview. But dynamic instability is the science behind the study of the air movement at the leading edge of a squall line ( clouds ).. I'm still learning how to translate that into fsx, and I'm no genius.. I'm just tenacious as hell. but i think i'm making some big mistakes somewhere, or maybe it simply is not something that can be done without a computer siting at the heart of the plane keeping it stable.. I'm just not willing to give it up that easily.

I'm sick of trying here, I honestly believe it just can't be done in FSX! Its soooo frustrating too!:banghead:

[Matt Wynn]

trust me Pete if anyone can get close Pam can, we had it going pretty good a year ago then we had a few issues, but soon... well JFTC's test pilot (Translated as Guinea-Pig) will get back on the case... expect more from me soon, last Vodka before i fly, my round guys get your drinks :ernae:

[srgalahad]

I'm sick of trying here, I honestly believe it just can't be done in FSX! Its soooo frustrating too!:banghead:

Pete, I've had an X-52 since they were first released ( and still the same one - no replacements, no repairs - maybe I just use fingers instead of fists) but if you have the choice, for the bucks I have yet to find a real value -added diff between the basic X-52 and the Pro.

--and yes, I use the Saitek software so I have access to all three modes, which are used on every flight. Why pay for it if you aren't going to use it (it's not that hard to program)

[warchild]

I'm sick of trying here, I honestly believe it just can't be done in FSX! Its soooo frustrating too!:banghead:

Hey Pete?? I understand exactly how that feels.. Just a week ago i said it couldnt be done..

I apologize for the size of the image, and the poor skills in movie making, But, if you dont mind, this is for you :)
Enjoy everyone..
Pam


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd2weQFRBYw

[warchild]

regarding the X-52 and X-52 pro's..
with 14 to 18 hours a day use the X-52 pro served me faithfully for three years.. it was the best stick i had ever seen, so when it finally wore out, i bought the X-52. Its also an aawesome stick. The only difference between it and the pro is the number of buttons to play with.. The pro series has 127 total..
If you fly normal aircraft, in a normal fashion, the X-52 series is the very best you can get. But the SU-37 is not a normal aircraft, and as you see in the above video, it flies outside the capabilities of other aircraft. for me, that means my stick is never centered its always rubbing the edge of the space it moves in. See, i always wanted a plane where the sky was really home. one that could dance with the eagles and mimic there movements. The Su-37 is the only plane in the world that can do that, aand its also incredibly demanding on the pilot, and the equipment we use. Unless you plan on pushing every limit in a plane such as this one the X-52 is perfect. In all truth, when it comes to this plane its going to be more a matter of my skills ( and sheer blind luck ) than it is equipment..

[Lionheart]

I love my X-52. Aside from the one issue of it always going haywire after so long, and not being able to 'in-game-reset', its brilliant. One awesome joystick. Perhaps one day they will have a update with a reset-able program that will work in-game.

Some one email them and ask. Never hurts.


Also, as a side note, I never take what anyone says to full 100% truth. Me for instance, I use a iMac computer and an ATI graphics card. I could have the wrong system for it and no one else has my results. So always keep that in mind. Pam may have an entirely diff joystick then me.

EDIT: Pam, I always take your word. I was just re-reading what I wrote. I was trying to explain that my feedback may be entirely subject to my own computer, Windows XP, chip, GC, etc.. Not you..

[warchild]

EDIT: Pam, I always take your word. I was just re-reading what I wrote. I was trying to explain that my feedback may be entirely subject to my own computer, Windows XP, chip, GC, etc.. Not you..

::chuckles:: No worries at all Bill.. i didnt take it that way.. my X-52 Pro had a habit of having the X axis go haywire causing me to pause the flight and unplug the joystick for a few seconds to clear it out.. I bought the X-51 ( standard ) just a few months ago, and i'm loving it..