Tornado from LJL Simulations

[flaviossa]

I´m very tempted to go for this: Tornado Package for FSX by LJL Simulations in simmarket.com front page yesterday. But i never heard of them before. So the question is ... anybody knows something about their products? The pictures don´t convinced me enough.

I like the Tornado a lot and this one might be good!

[Rattler]

Here is a Link to the Aircraft in Question http://secure.simmarket.com/ljl-simulations-tornado-fsx-(de_4577).phtml :salute::salute::salute:

[b52bob]

I don't know...looks like an AI airplane converted to flight from the externals.

Might be OK though I never heard of the company. price is not overly expensive for all the varients that are offered.

Bob

[falcon409]

Kinda hard to get a good feel for what it really looks like even though there are a lot of screenshots. When I see screenshots that appear fuzzy I wonder if they're simply bad shots or they're fuzzy for a reason, lol.

Considering the price, it's right on the edge for me, but I'm not a huge fan of the Tornado so I probably will pass. It would have to be a very well detailed aircraft including the texturing and I don't see that in the pics. Also. . . .there are 49 variants? It's always been my opinion that an initial release should be the base aircraft and a few (2 or 3) variants, then make the others available as free updates to those who really want them. My first job after downloading that airplane would be to delete everything except 2 or 3 variants that I found interesting.

Just my opinion.:salute:

[CG_1976]

Wonder if RAF 9Sq Green Bats are in this package???

[Rich]

Everything seems to be from different releases by different set ups not by LJL Simulations so it could have been done by anyone, the recently released Gladiator is among the offerings

[gajit]

I think i will let everyone else buy and try first - im not convinced it will be a keeper.

[CG_1976]

I knew I had this Tornado. I first heard about them over at UKMIL. Here is few pics of the Green Bat Sq RAF. She is excellent model with many choices and paints. Pics are from my fs9 install.

[peter12213]

Well the model looks pretty accurate, to me, the vc looks ok too, I think I may have to spash out on the aircraft thats had most impact on my childhood for sure!

Well spotted Flaviosa!

[Prowler1111]

It looks like a portover..the 2d panel hints me into it.
Looks good anyway
Prowler

[AndyE1976]

I like the look of this, it's not perfect, but it's certainly the best looking FSX Tornado that I'm aware of.

It's a shame they only show Luftwaffe liveries in the screen shots - would have been nice to know what other paints come with it.

[peter12213]

Theres a full list of them on the simmarket link, I think we only get GR1's for RAF birds though!

[falcon409]

<table id="table1" width="100%" border="1"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"> Tornado F2 Prototyp Clean
* Tornado F2 Prototyp SkyFlash
* Tornado F2 Prototyp Bombs

* Tornado ADV F2 AIM9L
* Tornado ADV F2 SkyFlash
* Tornado ADV F2 ACMI
* Tornado ADV F2 Clean * Tornado ADV F3 Clean
* Tornado ADV F3 AIM9L
* Tornado ADV F3 SkyFlash
* Tornado ADV F3 ACMI

* Tornado ADV EF3 ALARM
</td> <td valign="top">* Tornado GR1 ACMI
* Tornado GR1 Standard 1
* Tornado GR1 Standard 2
* Tornado GR1 ALARM 1
* Tornado GR1 ALARM 2
* Tornado GR1 SEAD
* Tornado GR1 Clean
* Tornado GR1 BSU50
* Tornado GR1 CBLS
* Tornado GR1 JP233
* Tornado GR1 LongRange
* Tornado GR1 Paveway
* Tornado GR1 SeaEagle</td> <td valign="top">* Tornado IDS ACMI
* Tornado IDS Standard 1
* Tornado IDS Standard 2
* Tornado IDS HARM
* Tornado IDS Clean
* Tornado IDS Prototyp 1 Clean
* Tornado IDS Prototyp 2 Clean
* Tornado IDS BSU50
* Tornado IDS CBLS
* Tornado IDS MW1
* Tornado IDS LongRange
* Tornado IDS Paveway
* Tornado IDS Kormoran
* Tornado IDS ReccePod Neu
* Tornado IDS ReccePod old
* Tornado IDS Kormoran Prototyp
* Tornado IDS Bomben Prototyp</td> <td valign="top">* Tornado ECR ACMI
* Tornado ECR Standard 1
* Tornado ECR Standard 2
* Tornado ECR HARM
* Tornado ECR Clean
* Tornado ECR LongRange
* Tornado ECR Prototyp</td></tr></tbody></table>

[AndyE1976]

yeah, I saw the list and the screenshots, but it doesn't say which squadrons for which variants. I'm guessing the F2's, F3's and GR1's would be RAF as the Luftwaffe only ran the IDS and ECR i believe. Italy may have run some ADV variants, but I'm a bit rusty on my Tornado history.

[IanP]

First things first, MDL8 says it's a port... Or they're a port - as the list Ed just posted shows, there are a heck of a lot of models in the package!

The ADV comes in RAF (no squadron insignia) air superiority grey and the RAF F.2 black and white test livery (with Mk82 bombs? On an ADV?!?). No Italian or Saudi liveries and I can't remember anyone else who bought them.

The ECR comes in Luftwaffe light grey and camo. Again no Italian scheme and I can't remember anyone else who bought the variant.

The GR.1 comes in RAF 9SQ grey, RSAF grey, RSAF desert camo, RAF Desert Storm "pink" with naughty nose art (Snoopy, for those who know it...) and Luftwaffe grey.

The "IDS" comes in Luftwaffe "prototype", "green primer", camo and grey, plus two display liveries (Luftwaffe and German Navy).

So it's basically a British and German pack, with some Saudi paints. The payloads are fixed and cannot be dropped.

There's no HUD, which made flying a performance jet quite hard, head down. The office is "FS9 standard", a few blurry bits, 2d rather than modelled switches and gauges, some hand drawn, some photoreal textures. A couple of parts look totally untextured. Only the front seat is modelled in the VC or 2d panels. There are no extra views on the "a" key cycle. There's no GPS or, indeed, any subpanels, but I couldn't see a single default gauge on what is provided.

Reheat is throttle controlled and the plumes look good, but the 9Sq aircraft refused to rotate until over 200KIAS, even with a single stage of flap, using well over half the runway at Lossiemouth. That's definitely not right. Wing sweep is controlled by the first two stages of flaps, with the flaps extending beyond that.

With wings fully swept, it stalled at about 145KIAS, which seems rather low. In approach configuration, that came down to 133KIAS, which seems a little more realistic. Approach , trying to follow a 3 degree slope, was very nose high (but the aircraft was still heavy) and I had to raise the seat to continue watching the PAPI. The moment the mains hit the deck at around 140KIAS, the nosewheel dropped instantly and the aircraft was sucked to the ground by the same mysterious vacuum encountered on takeoff. Reverse thrust and braking is moderately effective and the aircraft remains stable during the rollout and taxi.

Overall? "Meh". A large range of nice external models, a mediocre cockpit and a below average flight model. I'd probably have to limit it to 2 stars, because of the flight model. The external models are probably four stars, the VC and cockpit two and a half to three at best.

I guess it depends how much you want a Tornado.

Ian P.

[AndyE1976]

Thanks for the review, I think I'll continue to wait for the Virtavia Jag and the IRIS Typhoon.

[Roger]

If this is an Fs8 model this is a desperate rip-off. The header tells us that FsX SP2 is required. If I had bought this I would be demanding a refund for misrepresentation!

[IanP]

All FS9 models are MDL8, Roger. It didn't change until FSX.

My only big problem with it is the flight model that defies physics. It's not brilliant anywhere, but it's better than the other supposed FSX Tornado that I've seen (at least this one doesn't use default piston engine gauges!)

Nice externals though... Wonder if I can find an appropriate flight model and AI it? ;)

Ian P.

[Roger]

Ian,
The download page says that the model is for FsX SP2 so what is an Fs8 mdl doing for installation into FsX?

[IanP]

I'll try again...

An MDL8 model is NOT necessarily an FS8 model. The Wilco A400M being discussed elsewhere at the moment is an MDL8 model, it has never seen FS8, indeed it was developed near to the end of FS9's time as the "current" sim. Nor have any of the other fine FS9 models that have been produced for FS9 and then ported into FSX ever seen FS8, but if you open their mdl files in notepad, the first section will say MDL8.

This is an FS9 port. It is compatible with and therefore works in FSX SP2 (I'm using Acceleration, so that's SP2). It's not FSX native, but neither is it FS8.

You can do the test yourself... Create a new textfile, open it, then drag any .mdl file into the open text file page. If it is a native FSX model, in the top line, you will find "MDLX". If it is an FS9 model, you will see "MDL8". Close the text window without saving, obviously. ;)

Ian P.

[Roger]

Yes Ian I know that. What is a vendor doing selling a port-over is the question I'm asking. I have only ever bought one port-over knowingly and that was the FSD Porter. I once bought a product I believed to be FsX native and as soon as I saw the tell-tale signs of a port-over I returned it at once for a refund. I have nothing against port-overs as long as it's my choice.

[IanP]

I agree entirely - hence I started that post with the comment I did.

Unfortunately the waters were muddied a long time ago, well before FSX. I can clearly remember models from two versions earlier being sold regularly - the famous one being one publisher who sold nothing but FS98 models as being FS2002 in boxes.

I don't agree with it, I really wish they wouldn't do it, but I can see why they do.

Ian P.

[AndyE1976]

Nice externals though... Wonder if I can find an appropriate flight model and AI it? ;)

Ian P.

You could try replacing the FDE with the IRIS Simulations FS9 Tornado - that's now a free download on places like FlightSim.com I believe (I have it, just can't remember where from).

It seems to fly well, but has the usual FS9 port-over issues in FSX.

[Ark]

I don't know...looks like an AI airplane converted to flight from the externals.

Bob


Can I have a link to the AI you are referring too? lol

[MDIvey]

Wish i hadnt bought this... waste of money. The Screenshots over on simmarket showed reflective Canopy Glass so I thought even if its a portover they've found a way of making it so the glass is at least visible under most conditions... but no its a typical FS9 portover... the Screenshots are very misleading because the LJL Forum says the reflective finish had to be removed because of technical problems. A Big mistake...

Matt

[AndyE1976]

I know it has its detractors, but the best Tornado for FSX IMHO is the Alphasim F3.

The VC is pretty reasonable, a lot better than the AFS interior and I haven't quite got the IRIS Tornado working the way I'd like in FSX, so I think it beats that as well.

The exterior of the Alphasim F3 looks spot on to me, at least good enough to really have to look for the descrepencies.

Most of all it seems to fly quite nicely too and the frame rates are great.

Although there are a few Tornados out, there is a definite gap for a really high quality Aerosoft/IRIS Pro type F3 and particularly GR1A/GR4.

[hschuit]

If you want a mudmover Tonka, the freeware IRIS GR4 is your best option. Despite its age the model is spot on and it flies well in FSX, no gauge issues. A while ago I posted a fix for the VC glass problem in the ACG - RAF Marham thread here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=32644&highlight=iris+tornado

15347

[Rattler]

:salute::salute::salute:

[MDIvey]

Thanks...have Alpha F3 and Iris one and are excellent...still room for an FSX native IDS though:icon_lol:

Matt

[AndyE1976]

If you want a mudmover Tonka, the freeware IRIS GR4 is your best option. Despite its age the model is spot on and it flies well in FSX, no gauge issues. A while ago I posted a fix for the VC glass problem in the ACG - RAF Marham thread here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=32644&highlight=iris+tornado

15347

Brilliant, will have to try this later.

[AndyE1976]

Works as advertised - with this update and the IRIS GR4 plus the Alphasim F3 I'm in happy Tonka-land until Aerosoft or IRIS or someone else comes out with a 'pro' level bird.

[Txmmy83]

some info I spotted on LJL website
they have an FSX native Tornado version in the work

Best Regards
Tom

[MDIvey]

That would indeed be good news if they update existing customers for free as the model itself is very good.

Matt