T-33 in dds

[falcon409]

Well, it may take a few days to get everything converted, but after seeing the difference, there's no question that the only way to go with the repaints is to save as dds texture files. I'm saving them direct from PSP as dds so they're first generation textures rather than saving and then converting in DXTbmp.

I'm also redoing all the interior work as well which will take a while but it should sharpen those textures also.

[gaucho_59]

Well, it may take a few days to get everything converted, but after seeing the difference, there's no question that the only way to go with the repaints is to save as dds texture files. I'm saving them direct from PSP as dds so they're first generation textures rather than saving and then converting in DXTbmp.

I'm also redoing all the interior work as well which will take a while but it should sharpen those textures also.
HOW DO YOU SAVE DIRECTLY AS DDS in PSP?

[falcon409]

HOW DO YOU SAVE DIRECTLY AS DDS in PSP?
Well, that's a good question because when I originally installed PSP8 years ago, I don't really remember checking "dds" as one of the file formats to include for opening files. I have installed a set of tools from NVidia for dds and I have a plugin for dds and that may be why that file type is now available. I'm not up on how it would have gotten there, just that it is and it makes the conversion process very easy.

[Daube]

Wow... I'm really impressed by the work you've done on those textures Falcon.
Those rivets definitely look good, I wasn't expecting such a level of details whn you first annouced you were working on that plane.
And you're planning to work on the VC textures too ? Now I'm really curious to see the results of your efforts :jump:
Thanks a lot for what you do, Falcon :ernae:

[Dag]

Hi Ed,

Great work indeed, I've been missing that bird in FSX :-)

Thanks

[skyblazer3]

I'm also redoing all the interior work as well which will take a while but it should sharpen those textures also.

You are my hero!

[Dimus]

Great work falcon!

Perseverence pays off!

[Roger]

Way to go Ed!

[Pips]

Outstanding effort. :)

[N2056]

Wow Ed, you're getting good at the repaints! :icon29:

[ColoKent]

...but what I'm puzzled at is: how did you decide on 30+ layers???? Sharp Shooting Star!

Kent

[falcon409]

...but what I'm puzzled at is: how did you decide on 30+ layers???? Sharp Shooting Star!
Kent
Well:
Top Wing = 1 panel line layer, 1 Rivets layer, I layer each for white drop shadows and one black diffused shadow layer
Bottom Wing = ditto
Horizontal Stab Top = ditto
Horizontal Stab Bottom = ditto
Left Fuselage = ditto
Right Fuselage = ditto
So. . .basically 5 layers for each section, plus a few extras for placards, insignia, the wing tanks and the intake splitters.

I used to do one drop shadow for everything until I noticed that the shadows didn't line up left side to right side because they were going in the wrong directions. Also, I wanted the light/reflection to be consistent and if I just did one layer for all the various areas on the airplane, they wouldn't be. So for each section, I figured which direction the light was coming from and then set the white drop shadow to fit that, then moved the white to a layer above the black so that there was a nice white hilite and it gives a look of three dimensions even though it's just a flat surface.:salute:

[Piglet]

Pretty sharp paint job! See, I don't have to make a new T-33!:wavey:
P.S. Falcon, you want some better tex's for those landing lights? I been using much better ones for some time now. Well, now that I think about it, that light tex should be on most of my recent planes' tex's

[falcon409]

Pretty sharp paint job! See, I don't have to make a new T-33!:wavey:
huh?:jawdrop: Doh!!:banghead:

[ColoKent]

"Pretty sharp paint job! See, I don't have to make a new T-33!:wavey:"

YIKES....let's hope Piglet is kidding!!!!!

Kent

[anthony31]

HOW DO YOU SAVE DIRECTLY AS DDS in PSP?

dds.8bi is the plugin name from NVIDIA if we are talking about the same thing.

On my PSP X2 system the exporter comes up as NVIDIA dds format (v3.02).

I think you need to be very particular about the version of the plugin that you use though.

[PRB]

dds.8bi is the plugin name from NVIDIA if we are talking about the same thing.

On my PSP X2 system the exporter comes up as NVIDIA dds format (v3.02).

I think you need to be very particular about the version of the plugin that you use though.

If you use a DDS plugin for PSP, does saving to that formal also mirror the image like ImageTool does?

[falcon409]

Using the dds plugin I downloaded off an old link, this is what I'm doing and the results are perfect:
Merge the layered texture in PSP, Flip and save as "dds DXT5" when the save menu for the dds plugin pops up. That's it!

Here's a shot of the main panel (part of the texture I'm working on to sharpen up a lot of the fuzzy switches and placards). I tried to clean up what I assume are "adel clamps" on the tube running behind the panel and I think, for the most part, the placards are correct. It was hard to tell what a few of the words were so I just went with my best guess. If anyone sees something that doesn't appear to be right let me know.

[JoeW]

Try saving to 32 bit BMP, then using Image tool to get them from that to DXT5, DDS format.
I find they load a bit faster and on 4 meg x 4 meg textures, they run faster.

[falcon409]

Try saving to 32 bit BMP, then using Image tool to get them from that to DXT5, DDS format.
I find they load a bit faster and on 4 meg x 4 meg textures, they run faster.
That's kinda what I was doing originally and I found that I lost too much detail taking it to a bitmap first and then to dds. They were fine basically until I saved as a bitmap, as soon as I did that the details were gone.

The original texture folders for the airplane contained 4 texture files, 3 of those were the actual airplane and the interior pieces and the fourth one was for the glass. They totaled 12.1 meg. . .the one for the 57th Sq now totals 24.1 meg, but even with my limited system, I see no fps drop and no delay at all in loading.:salute:

[IanP]

For what it's worth, Ed, I had exactly the same problem doing building textures - the moment they hit bitmap, any quality they had was gone (I was using PSP8 at that point).

My preferred method right now is as has already been mentioned, to work in .pspimage (I'm using PSP X2 now) and save as .psd, then use imagetool to convert to DXT5 and save as .dds (imagetool does the flipping for me).

Everyone does it their own way, obviously, but I agree entirely that going through bmp and then converting that was the worst method for loss of detail.

Ian P.

[Bjoern]

Well:
Top Wing = 1 panel line layer, 1 Rivets layer, I layer each for white drop shadows and one black diffused shadow layer
Bottom Wing = ditto
Horizontal Stab Top = ditto
Horizontal Stab Bottom = ditto
Left Fuselage = ditto
Right Fuselage = ditto
So. . .basically 5 layers for each section, plus a few extras for placards, insignia, the wing tanks and the intake splitters.

I find working with more than 20 layers extremely hard on system resources, especially with running 3DS Max 9 and FSX at the same time.

So I usually put everything that fits a certain category into a complete layer, e.g. all wireframe renditions go into one layer; the base paint for relevant parts into another; a layer for the repaint; then a layer for the "unpaintable" stuff, like de-ice boots, painted-on intakes and exhausts; one for the panel lines and rivets and last but not least a layer for everything qualifying as decals.

Much better to work on.

[falcon409]

I find working with more than 20 layers extremely hard on system resources, especially with running 3DS Max 9 and FSX at the same time. . . . .
I agree, I'd much rather have less than 20 layers really, but I can't do the detail I work I want that way. Having said that, once I have all the rivet shadows and line shadows and diffusion shadowing done, then I could conceivably combine all white shadows into one, all the various panel lines layers together and all the diffused dark shadowing together and that would save some additional resources but I still like having everything separate just in case I need to make a change somewhere. It does get confusing at times, but this is the best way I've found really.

[anthony31]

It's interesting that some of you are having problems losing quality when saving as a .bmp from PSP. What format are you using to edit the images in? I use RGB 8 bit/channel. I think the best possible quality you could get would be RGB 16 bit/channel but I've never used that.

Also, what format are you exporting as? There aren't many options for BMP but I use Format-Windows, Encoding RGB.

I actually use Dxtex to convert to .dds when I'm finished (I usually use DXTBMP for single textures). First off I copy all the .bmps to a texture prep folder. Then, I've written a little script in PSP to flip the images so I load them into the batch processor of PSP and flip them all. Finally, I've written a little batch file which loads the textures into dxtex and it does the conversion. Dxtex is clever because if you add _a to the end of the file name it will load it as the alpha channel automatically.

Of course, the problem with Dxtex is you need to download the 600MB or so of the DirectX SDK to get that one little program.

[falcon409]

It's interesting that some of you are having problems losing quality when saving as a .bmp from PSP. What format are you using to edit the images in? I use RGB 8 bit/channel. I think the best possible quality you could get would be RGB 16 bit/channel but I've never used that.

Also, what format are you exporting as? There aren't many options for BMP but I use Format-Windows, Encoding RGB.

I actually use Dxtex to convert to .dds when I'm finished (I usually use DXTBMP for single textures). First off I copy all the .bmps to a texture prep folder. Then, I've written a little script in PSP to flip the images so I load them into the batch processor of PSP and flip them all. Finally, I've written a little batch file which loads the textures into dxtex and it does the conversion. Dxtex is clever because if you add _a to the end of the file name it will load it as the alpha channel automatically.

Of course, the problem with Dxtex is you need to download the 600MB or so of the DirectX SDK to get that one little program.
I'll be real honest with ya Anthony. . .I don't understand anything you just described, lol. I may be doing some of that, but if I am, I'm not aware of it. If you read all of my posts in this thread, you'll see what I do.
More often that not I'm working with no paint kit and so I build that first, by using an original single layer texture. PSP loads that as (normally) 1024x1024 16mil. I always enlarge the textures to do anything I plan on doing, so double that size. Prior to the T-33 textures I'm working on I would merge the final layers, save it back to the texture folder and use DXTbmp to save it with whatever alpha channel I did for it. Done!

Now, I do basically the same up to the point of sending it back to the texture folder. . .instead, after merging the layers, I flip the image and export it directly to the texture folder using the dds plugin inside PSP. Done!:salute:

[Piglet]

Falcon, I think that center placard should be a checklist, like the following....

[falcon409]

Ok, Tim what's currently there in the center is just a redo of what you already had there, so you think it should have been this checklist and not the one that you originally had? If so, I'll redo it before I zip these for upload. Thanks

[falcon409]

Well, after looking closely at several different cockpit layouts, the image shown here seems to be the one I see the most on the T-33A aircraft, soooooooo. . .I'll redo the center placard to show this checklist. I can enlarge it just enough to read everything and get it transposed to the new texture. Thanks for spotting that Tim!:salute:

[falcon409]

Done. I'm going to move the checklist and the "Operating Conditions" placards up a bit so they're not so close to the bottom edge of the panel. Unless anyone sees anything else that needs to be changed (in the next 10 minutes) I'm going to zip the three versions I've done and get them uploaded here.

[Piglet]

Looks good! Wow, it's sure has been awhile since I made that plane!

[falcon409]

Yep, it sure has Tim, I wouldn't even venture a guess as to how many downloads this beauty has had over the years and it has stood the test of time. New Paint, new interior and off she goes again, lol.:salute:

[ColoKent]

...I echo Ed's compliments....it's one of my favorites-- bar none.

Kent

[skyblazer3]

Great Aircraft, incredible to think about how many pilots were trained in the T-bird.

Would be great to have a Native FSX version with both cockpits working and designed for multiplayer.......... but I'm very happy with what we have.

:salute::salute:

[Bone]

If Piglet could just reach into the cockpit and make the canopy bow more of a rounded arch instead of a hex arch, that would do wonders for this nice little gem.

[stormtrooper271]

I downloaded this plane which I love to fly, but it hit frame rates hard. Is this just normal for this plane since its not FSX native or is it just me?

[skyblazer3]

If Piglet could just reach into the cockpit and make the canopy bow more of a rounded arch instead of a hex arch, that would do wonders for this nice little gem.

I'm sure that Piglet, the High-Priest of 3D modelling, could do anything he sets his mind to..... If only the rest of us were initiated into that revered temple order of modelers. I tried my hand at GMAX, made the ugliest hanger in the world, and decided I should work on more fundamental skills like repaints before moving into the realm of 3D graphics.

As for frame rates..... we've had 4 or 5 of these T-birds up in the air at once and didn't have any frame lag on a mid-range computer.
:salute:



Chris

[falcon409]

Same here Chris, even using the enlarged textures that I'm using now on the repaints, I still see no fps hit, but even before that, just downloading the basic airplane, I don't really remember there being a big problem with fps.

By the way. . .I couldn't resist one more paint. . .the 5th FIS, Minot, ND:

[skyblazer3]

Beautiful. I lived 4 years in North Dakota, it's great to see a North Dakota bird.



Where are you uploading these?

I just finished a 22nd squadron paint of an F-100 with that paint kit you sent me.... should be up in the next few days.

[falcon409]

Beautiful. I lived 4 years in North Dakota, it's great to see a North Dakota bird. Where are you uploading these?
Actually I haven't yet. I was going to do it this morning, but my granddaughter came over for the afternoon and she took over the computer. Hopefully I can get them zipped and uploaded in the morning.


I just finished a 22nd squadron paint of an F-100 with that paint kit you sent me.... should be up in the next few days.
Have you done any others yet?

[johndetrick]

OK, I'm having some troubles here, I've never been able to get dds textures to display on Tim's T-33. I have the Nvidia tool, and it saves just fine. I can open it in DXTbmp, but it just won't display on the aircraft. BTW Tim, if you update the model please make the VC a little more editable. A lot of the later T-33's did not have the checklist in the center of the instrument panel.

[mmann]

I downloaded this plane which I love to fly, but it hit frame rates hard. Is this just normal for this plane since its not FSX native or is it just me?

I definitely have a frame rate hit as well!! It is because it is not FSX native. The Section F8 F86 Sabre has the same frame rate hit. The only way I have found, on my computer, to increase the frame rates is by having the mouse cursor showing. I have not found a way to make the mouse cursor show permanently unfortunately, it always disappears after a few seconds.

[falcon409]

I definitely have a frame rate hit as well!! It is because it is not FSX native. The Section F8 F86 Sabre has the same frame rate hit. The only way I have found, on my computer, to increase the frame rates is by having the mouse cursor showing. I have not found a way to make the mouse cursor show permanently unfortunately, it always disappears after a few seconds.
I guess this is a system by system problem. I have never had a frame rate hit with this airplane like I do some other FS9 portovers. I don't have any idea why and I certainly don't question it. I run a very average dual core system that's a bit over 2 yrs old now with an NVidia 9600GT card. If you are already having problems, then these new textures aren't for you as they are double the size of the originals and would most likely just add to your problems.

[falcon409]

On that note, I just uploaded all four of the new liveries. I won't hazard a guess as to when they'll be available since I don't claim to understand the new downloads area. They may show up in the "New" area, or the "Skins" area or both.:salute:

NOTE: I've sent a message to have this corrected (it was my fault), but the images for the 438th and 120th are flipped. The downloads are correct, but I mixed up the images when I posted them. The 438th has a yellow lightning bolt on the wing tank and the 120th has a blue arrow. Sorry 'bout that!

[mmann]

I guess this is a system by system problem. I have never had a frame rate hit with this airplane like I do some other FS9 portovers. I don't have any idea why and I certainly don't question it. I run a very average dual core system that's a bit over 2 yrs old now with an NVidia 9600GT card. If you are already having problems, then these new textures aren't for you as they are double the size of the originals and would most likely just add to your problems.

My system is running an NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT card as well on an older dual core. My processor is an AMD however, so perhaps that is the problem.

[falcon409]

My system is running an NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT card as well on an older dual core. My processor is an AMD however, so perhaps that is the problem.
Same as mine, I have upgraded the Motherboard after it got fried in a thunderstorm. It runs an AMD Anthlon 5600+ w/2.9ghz processor.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to why some have good luck with portovers and others don't. I'm happy that I don't as it opens up a lot of the great airplanes that I flew in FS9.

[mmann]

Same as mine, I have upgraded the Motherboard after it got fried in a thunderstorm. It runs an AMD Anthlon 5600+ w/2.9ghz processor.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to why some have good luck with portovers and others don't. I'm happy that I don't as it opens up a lot of the great airplanes that I flew in FS9.

I only have the AMD Anthlon 5000+ on an ASUS M2A-VM motherboard in a custom built system. Runs just about everything except FSX glass cockpits and/or FS9 aircraft fine though.

[falcon409]

I only have the AMD Anthlon 5000+ on an ASUS M2A-VM motherboard in a custom built system. Runs just about everything except FSX glass cockpits and/or FS9 aircraft fine though.
How much memory do you have? I have 8gig, which is a waste, I should have spent what I did on 4 gig of that for a faster processor, lol.

[mmann]

How much memory do you have? I have 8gig, which is a waste, I should have spent what I did on 4 gig of that for a faster processor, lol.

Only 2 gig. I'm running Windows XP 32 bit so even 4 gig would be wasted.

[falcon409]

Only 2 gig. I'm running Windows XP 32 bit so even 4 gig would be wasted.
Yea and I'm running Win7 64bit. I could kick myself for not checking into the additional memory before I bought it. I just figured it would really fly with all that memory. . .not really, lol. I'd have seen better results from a faster CPU.