Area 51 C-5M and C-17 update news [Archive]

strykerpsg

June 18th, 2010, 18:51

All,

Just got this off the Area 51 website today, not very good news. I am trying to break through to the developers, but I fear they have taken their forum offline because of harsh criticisms from buyers of their C-5M. Not trying to instigate any sort of flame war toward them because they have some potentially good and unique designs, just letting potential buyers of the C-5 know it may not get fixed so you get what you pay for at this point.

Here is the link to their website: http://www.area51sim.com/index.html

Cut and pasted off their site:
C-5M Patch and C-17 Cancelled. (http://www.area51sim.com/index.html)

June 18, 2010Status:Project Cancelled (http://www.area51sim.com/index.html)

We stopped all the work about C-5M Patch and C-17. There will be no patch for C-5M...

Matt

michael davies

June 19th, 2010, 04:25

A more expansive dialogue here http://www.area51sim.com/cancelled.html

cajj1

June 19th, 2010, 04:36

A more expansive dialogue here http://www.area51sim.com/cancelled.html

Including some good advice to all the rivet counters out there! :jump::jump::jump:

This is only a GAME! Please have a social life and get a girlfriend!

merida72

June 19th, 2010, 04:59

partly agree, but there is also the question of compliance with the consumer, or better would be nice to know what I'm buying ... if there are any bugs that I would be resolved ... If the manufacturer does not do this I will draw my conclusions and lose a customer ...

Tweek

June 19th, 2010, 05:01

A shame, but I hope it sends a message to some of the abusive idiots you get out there (though it probably won't).

To be honest, if I was a payware developer, I'd take any rude and abusive complaints and 'politely' tell them to eff off. Couldn't stand with dealing with that type of customer. Make it clear that you're willing to work with constructive criticism - with people who actually want to help you improve your product. Anyone else can take their complaints and stick it up a certain passage...

merida72

June 19th, 2010, 05:10

I personally would consider only the constructive criticism, the offensive directly to the trash ...

I repeat the key is be clear

arrowmaker

June 19th, 2010, 05:24

A more expansive dialogue here http://www.area51sim.com/cancelled.html

Excellent stuff. A plain talking developer who shoots from the hip. He is 100% correct when he states that FSX is just a game. I know some people, for whatever reason, seem to get bent out of shape by this simple statement, but it IS just a game.

I don't actually own any of the Area51 stuff. But judging from the screenshots I've seen and comments I've read it would appear to be on par with AlphaSim stuff from 2-3 years back. I can quite understand the developers feelings if his products are being criticised because they are not up to the standard of highly developed products from say PMDG or A2A.

This is obviously not what Area51 are about. I like my A2A and RealAir planes and Nemeth Bros helicopters as much as the next guy. This doesn't stop me deriving some enjoyment from flying what are, in comparison, fairly simplistic models. If there was'nt a market for this kind of stuff then AlphaSim would not have done so well in the days when they seemed to release a new product every other month.

falcon409

June 19th, 2010, 06:49

Yep the "Idiot Brigade" strikes again. 90% of them are so full of themselves that they actually think they know what they're talking about and the other 10% who might actually know something are so rude and condescending that their possible contributions are lost completely.

I don't have any of their aircraft, but for what they appear to be, I think the prices seem appropriate and as they mention, they are more along the lines of AlphaSim quality from 3 or 4 years ago and they don't profess to be anything else. That doesn't deter the idiots though, they want to show off their newfound knowledge by panning a new release. It's more a case of "Hey look at me. . .see how smart I am", than anything constructive and usually, in the end, they simply make themselves look like fools.

ryanbatc

June 19th, 2010, 06:59

OleBoy

June 19th, 2010, 07:20

I can not even imagine being at the receiving end in a developers world. Of all the topics I've read, pictures viewed throughout the course of development, I can only envision the amount of time it takes to create a model that's finished and ready to fly in the sim. For it is, and I agree, just a game.

There are so many that have the skills to make models happen. And from what I've seen through my course of time in this little fantasy, the models of interest have been made several times over. With each attempt to perfection a little farther out for reality, and pushing the limits in the extremes. ...Among those developers there is a niche for direction of focus and development. And they tend to stay in that realm of interest based on customer input.

Talented individuals who take on the ventures of modeling for all of us, are in their own little world. And within that little world the developers keep things hush hush. Their techniques in design speak for themselves. And those individuals did not learn what they know in a short time. They learned, and are still learning bit by bit, and by trial and error.

There are developers in this little fantasy world of ours that are fantastic modelers, coders, programmers and painters to mention just a few. And they do what they do for their, and our own enjoyment and relaxation.

falcon409

June 19th, 2010, 07:24

I don't know much about this fiasco but imho the response was written by a teenager... "get a girlfriend and a social life...."

Wow what a great thing to say to customers!!! They assume everyone who badmouthed their product has no social life???
Ok dokie....
Their post was a bit hard to follow at times, but considering their locations and that their english isn't quite as refined as we might be used to, they still got the message across.

None of us really knows what sort of bombardment they've been under about their products, but apparently it has reached a point where they've decided enough is enough. I don't blame them and the use of the "get a girlfriend and a social life" line is probably their way of saying "GET A LIFE". In the grand scheme of things, this is just a game, a simulation and letting it get to the point that all you think about is how close together the rivets are compared to the actual aircraft is idiotic. . .so get over it and find something more important to be involved in.

Ark

June 19th, 2010, 07:38

I don't know much about this fiasco but imho the response was written by a teenager...

"get a girlfriend and a social life...."

Wow what a great thing to say to customers!!!

They assume everyone who badmouthed their product has no social life???

Ok dokie....

Pretty much my sentiments.

On a side note, if a developer can't take criticism, whether it be harsh or not, perhaps they should find a new line of work. People are people, and expecting everybody to be civil is nonsensical. Not everyone is going to react the same way to a product's issues/shortcommings.

Telling current/potential customers to get a girlfriend and a social life might be one of the dumbest things I have read from a commercial entity in a while.

Maybe while the customers are out getting a girlfriend and a social life, the developer could attend a few college courses pertaining to professionalism in business since there doesn't seem to be a patch coming for that either.

Quixoticish

June 19th, 2010, 08:26

gradyhappyg

June 19th, 2010, 08:27

Having dealt with the public in a few of my jobs I can see where they (the developers) are coming from some people can make you want to pull your hair out. On the other hand to deny the many people the patch because of the actions of a few isn't the right approach either.

Ark

June 19th, 2010, 08:50

I think it's clear that the developer welcomes constructive criticism but is referring to the offensive hate e-mails and irrelevant ranting gibberish they've been receiving with regards to some of their products.

Perhaps, but the comments are painted with a rather broad brush.

Tweek

June 19th, 2010, 08:52

bushpilot

June 19th, 2010, 08:55

I have no idea how good/bad their products are, but I enjoyed reading their statement. Verrry nicehttp://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Skittles

June 19th, 2010, 09:09

For many this isn't a game, it's a simulator.

Some of you might think 'rivet counting' is pathetic but many people spend what little money they have on these products and are understandably disappointed when the product is fundamentally flawed.

Area 51 charge significant amounts of money for their products. If people feel/know they are inaccurate and unacceptable then they have every right to complain.

Please stop this absolutely pathetic defense of flight sim developers.

If you bought a fridge that didn't keep things cold you'd take it back/complain.
If you bought a car that overheated every 10 minutes you'd take it back/complain.
If you bought a meal at a restaurant and your chicken was raw inside you'd take it back/complain.
If you bought a phone that refused to make phone calls you'd take it back/complain.
If you buy a flight simulator product and complain you MUST have an agenda and need to get a life.

Some of you maintain that you need to get a life when you have hundreds and thousands of posts on a website dedicated to flight simulation?

Their email is aimed at people who send abusive messages, of course I am not one of them. Essentially however, they are saying 'we know it's not good enough, but piss off. We don't care.'

Tell you what Area 51, I'll happily get a life - and NEVER buy one of your products. I'm not a rivet counter in the slightest, but I'm not supporting anyone who takes that attitude towards customers.

Ark

June 19th, 2010, 09:38

While it may come over as a little childish (although if Falcon's correct about their English, then that's understandable), it was probably written in the heat of the moment, venting their feelings as they typed it. Can't blame them, really. Anyone who sends a tirade of abuse to developers, for trivial matters such as the functionality and accuracy of their models, deserves exactly the same in return. As I said before, there's a difference between deserved/constructive criticism and downright rudeness. Those who send messages that fall into the latter category are idiots. Plain and simple.

Part of being an adult, and a business professional, is not rersponding to adversity in that manner. If you feel customers deserve the response they give, do yourself a favor and never work in a capacity that requires you to interact with others. "Venting feelings" should never happen to a customer despite whether it is deserved or not. If they have an issue with a specific customer/customers, they should speak with them directly, not post a message on their website "venting" to all the world. It's bad business. The customer is always right despite the customer not always being right. Period.

Maybe if this hobby had more "rivet-counters" than add-ons would be released with less bugs.

Bjoern

June 19th, 2010, 10:16

Ah, internet drama...alias "much ado about nothing". :d

But then again, there was money involved...and I think $30 for an add-on which is more fun than serious is a tad much. The PC Aviator price of $13 is a way better one for my taste...

falcon409

June 19th, 2010, 10:36

. . . . .Some of you maintain that you need to get a life when you have hundreds and thousands of posts on a website dedicated to flight simulation?
Back off Skittles. . .I've been on since June of 05, 5 years exactly and by my count that averages to almost 2 post per day. You've been on since Feb of this year and you're averaging the same.

Their email is aimed at people who send abusive messages, of course I am not one of them. Essentially however, they are saying 'we know it's not good enough, but piss off. We don't care.
What they're saying is we don't make "High Quality" "Super Detailed" models, so don't make the purchase expecting that and then come back and bitch about later because it's not up to your expectations. . . .oh, and if you do. . .tough!!
Have a nice day!:salute:

IanP

June 19th, 2010, 11:27

Personal attacks, Falcon?

A lot of people, especially those on lower incomes, will agree entirely with what skittles has said. He's as entitled to his opinion as you are and he posted politely, unlike yours.

If you want to get personal, I note that your illegal scenery is still available at the library. You have no right at all to lecture anybody on anything.

Ian P.

Tweek

June 19th, 2010, 11:32

If you bought a fridge that didn't keep things cold you'd take it back/complain.
If you bought a car that overheated every 10 minutes you'd take it back/complain.
If you bought a meal at a restaurant and your chicken was raw inside you'd take it back/complain.
If you bought a phone that refused to make phone calls you'd take it back/complain.
If you buy a flight simulator product and complain you MUST have an agenda and need to get a life.

If you bought the fridge, car, meal, or phone and they didn't do any of those things, then they'd be failing to perform the basic functions they're built for. Thus, you'd have reason to complain.

Lets see what the product description for the C-5M is, from FS Pilot Shop:

Different MDL files for FS2004 and FSX
Very High Detail Exterior and Interior
Photoreal Textures
Detailed doors and Cargo bays
2D Panel
Flight Manual
Paint KitAre any of those things missing from the product? Granted, your idea of 'very high detail' may differ to others', but to me, from what I can see on the screenshots, that VC does look detailed (can't really see the small details on the external, being such a large aircraft - perhaps that's one area they should work on). Added functionality like systems and clickable switches isn't mentioned, so I can't expect that from the product. So, I assume the product lives up to the description and the screenshots, and therefore if you've bought it, you've got no reason to complain about it, unless the addon actually doesn't work or doesn't deliver something in the description. You certainly don't have reason to send abuse to the developer for providing what they've said they're providing.

If you bought a fridge that looked exactly like the model in the shop, was reliable, kept your food as cold as it should, did everything Hotpoint told you it would, but then you complained because it didn't have an ice cube dispenser, then you'd look like a bit of a moron, wouldn't you?

michael davies

June 19th, 2010, 11:43

Pop corn any one ?.

Sad to see a hostile debate from a closed forum spread elsewhere, but then thats what happens when you close forums, the after taste seeps elsewhere.

falcon409

June 19th, 2010, 11:45

. . . . .If you want to get personal, I note that your illegal scenery is still available at the library. You have no right at all to lecture anybody on anything.
Ian P.
Ahhh, so now the gloves are off eh Ian? Fine, I'll follow Jim's lead and remove my scenery from the SOH download site. I don't upload anywhere else, so it should be a simple matter to have the admins take care of that in short order.
Have a great day!

Skittles

June 19th, 2010, 11:56

If you bought the fridge, car, meal, or phone and they didn't do any of those things, then they'd be failing to perform the basic functions they're built for. Thus, you'd have reason to complain.

Lets see what the product description for the C-5M is, from FS Pilot Shop:.......

Well I'm not going to slag off the product, because;

1) I don't have it
2) A quick google search tells you what you need to know. In fact just check out the reviews on the FSPilot shop site.

The fact of the matter is, the developers have in the past acknowledged faults, and promised a patch for the aircraft to make them acceptable. They have now broken this promise.

Perhaps you forget that for every person who is rude in an email there are 10 people who have spent their money on this product, been perfectly polite and patient, only for Area51 to leave them in the dark.

It doesn't matter if the aircraft was the best aircraft made except for one gauge which didn't work correctly. If you promise to people who have purchased/are going to purchase the product you can't go back on it.

IanP

June 19th, 2010, 11:59

The gloves were never on. I told you that your UK scenery was illegal and, as someone working legally to produce UK photoscenery, I really do know how much it costs and who owns it. It is most certainly not free to use, unlike most of the US imagery. You chose to post it anyway, in full knowledge of what you were doing.

What Jim has done, and why he has done it, has no bearing on the fact that you are breaking the law. If you want to pull the stuff you've done legally as well as illegally, that's up to you. What Jim Dhaenens has done, and the reasons he's done it, are between - well, as per his request, they have nothing to do with this discussion and nothing to do with either you nor I.

Back on topic, I actually agree with both sides. I read promises made about these models, which Area51 didn't keep. I never expected them to, which is why I didn't buy the products.

On the other hand, I actually agree with all those who have posted about people abusing developers for nothing. There are an increasing number of people who want full depth systems, massively detailed textures, every nook, cranny and external aerial modelled, but they want to pay $20 for it. Flight Sims may be more or less important to individuals - some treat it more seriously than others - but I'm really glad I'm not a commercial developer. They take a lot of flak that there is neither cause to give nor receive.

Ian P.

bushpilot

June 19th, 2010, 12:01

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/in_before_lock.gif

jmig

June 19th, 2010, 12:39

Ian, I don't know anything about illegal scenery posted by Falcon here or elsewhere. However, your use of the term illegal is pretty serious and can lead to all sorts of problems. I suggest we ALL refrain from calling each other crooks and such.

This thread is about a developer and its airplanes. We will not be accusing fellow members of unlawful activities unless we are willing to prove in a court of law.

And, this place ain't no court of law!!!

However, the management do not want to be dragged into a court just because we allow members to say such things.

IanP

June 19th, 2010, 13:20

John, you have a PM.

falcon409

June 19th, 2010, 13:39

jmig,
Not a problem, IanP was nice enough to mention the illegality, I have taken the steps to remove my sceneries. Nothing else needs to be said. Back on track with the original thread.:salute:

tommieboy

June 19th, 2010, 15:15

....

The fact of the matter is, the developers have in the past acknowledged faults, and promised a patch for the aircraft to make them acceptable. They have now broken this promise.

Perhaps you forget that for every person who is rude in an email there are 10 people who have spent their money on this product, been perfectly polite and patient, only for Area51 to leave them in the dark.

It doesn't matter if the aircraft was the best aircraft made except for one gauge which didn't work correctly. If you promise to people who have purchased/are going to purchase the product you can't go back on it.

I agree with everything above; Area 51 has to reconsider the impact that it's current stance will have on the "quiet" majority (their bread and butter).

Tommy

deathfromafar

June 19th, 2010, 15:47

Personally, I have never had a problem with the staff or service of Area51. The one minor issue I did have they took care of quickly. To me, they have never sold me anything that they didn't deliver on. The product does exactly what I expected it to do, no more, no less. While I agree with some sentiments here that such a public display of anger from a business is not very wise for business, I do understand within context the beating some of these folks are subjected to. It's so easy to judge from the outside looking in when you're not the ant under the sunlit magnifying glass. We all adhere to "buyer beware" and rightfully so when money is spent but we should also observe the rule of "buyer behave" and apply our concerns or criticisms in a manner befitting and becoming.

Major_Spittle

June 19th, 2010, 15:57

Unfortunately there are a lot of gray areas selling cyber airplanes, especially for some of the prices I have seen.

Mama always said that FSX add-ons are like a box of chocolates, ya just never know what'll get. :wiggle:

Roger

June 19th, 2010, 16:18

It's the spiteful people who will insist on interjecting in threads like this that make me wonder if SOH really needs or wants FS forums?
I was offered the oppertunity to start the Fs forum (Fs2002 then) in 2001, here at the SOH, and saw it grow to be the largest forum on the site by 2004. Maybe I never should have bothered with all the petty bickering and general unpleasantness that seems to insinuate itself into to too many threads these days.
Admin/mods close this pathetic thread please before swords are drawn.

PRB

June 19th, 2010, 16:45

I think this one has run its course.

Henry

June 19th, 2010, 19:08