Small Plane Crash; North Eastern Arizona

[Lionheart]

We had a small plane go down over here in Arizona up in the high altitude area. We just learned that it was a small family of 4, parents with their two daughters on a trip in their Piper to go see the Grand Canyon.

It now appears they had refueled in Flagstaff or close by 'high altitude airport' and had topped off their tanks. For those that do not know, high altitude in a hot environment with max loadout is dangerous. Low density air may have now been the culprit in the accident.

It had first appeared to be a Cessna 172 that targeted a school and crashed into it. Now reports point that the plane was having problems flying (nose up attitude) and went to make a 180 turn back to its destination when it lost control. It also turns out to have been a Piper, not a Cessna. Some really odd news conflictions. (Some had said it circled a school 2 times before crashing into it).

The crew of 4 died, no one on the ground injured.

May their souls rest in peace.



Bill

[Cirrus N210MS]

wow not good

[falcon409]

Man I hate to hear that Bill, no crash is good of course, but when it's such a devastating loss, it's even worse. Hopefully the angels were with them and they didn't suffer. . .they knew what was coming most likely, but maybe it was quick.

Reports that come in now concerning any crash, be it GA or Commercial I think is very "911" driven. Even after this much time has passed, the first thing in many folks mind, especially where it happens in a residential or heavily populated area, is that it was somehow terrorist in nature. Eyewitness accounts are also unreliable for the most part, everyone sees something different, then based on past experiences or backgrounds, they add in personal conjecture and opinions and pretty soon it's out of proportion and useless to an investigation.

[azflyboy]

The aircraft departed an airport that sits at 7055ft MSL, and from what I can tell, the temperature that afternoon was in the 80's. That means the density altitude (the altitude the aircraft performs as though it's at) would have been in excess of 10,000ft when the aircraft departed.

From the FAA records of the crash, the aircraft in question was a PA-32 (although I can't tell which specific model), so four people and full fuel (plus some baggage) shouldn't have resulted in an overweight airplane, but it would have been pretty close to the maximum takeoff weight.

If the aircraft was one of the naturally aspirated PA-32 family, it's service ceiling would be around 15,000ft, which means that a 10,000ft+ density altitude on takeoff would have resulted in extremely poor climb performance that would require the pilot to pay careful attention to airspeed.

Even if the accident aircraft were turbocharged (which takes the service ceiling to about 20,000ft), a 10,000ft density altitude would still have an enormous impact on takeoff and climb performance, especially in a heavily loaded aircraft.

[jmig]

My heart goes out to the surviving family members. This is a tragic time for them.

[papab]

I live in Tampa.
The radio announced today that is was a family from Pasco County,west central florida
15 & 5 year old girl perished along with the Mom & Dad. They said he worked for the ATF

May they all R.I.P...........So So sad.....