why apple is no better or worse than microsoft

[stiz]

happens to em all :icon_lol:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100609/tod-iphone-tech-glitch-embarrasses-apple-870a197.html

[Allen]

First this, Now the iHack of the iPad.....

[demorier]

How embarassment....:redf:

[Lewis-A2A]

Its the aggressive ldevelopment line of apple that has me most worried. I'm glad Adobe had the balls to stand up to them!

Apple are basicly the masters of IT spin, there marketing managers are no doubt on a high wage!

[jhefner]

I think what they have in common is trying to meet deadlines for product release while developing increasingly complicated new builds of their respective products. It gets harder and harder to add new features and integrate new software without breaking old code; not that us users of MSFS would know anything about that.... :wiggle:

-James

[Lionheart]

I thought Microsoft only made Operating Systems and software such as Windows Office.

Apple make OSX, iOS, iPhones, iPods, iPod Touches, iPads, Laptops and Desktop computers, monitors, iWork office suite, Apps, Appeture, and a list of other things varying from parts to software.

[jhefner]

I thought Microsoft only made Operating Systems and software such as Windows Office.

Apple make OSX, iOS, iPhones, iPods, iPod Touches, iPads, Laptops and Desktop computers, monitors, iWork office suite, Apps, Appeture, and a list of other things varying from parts to software.

No disagreement with that; but my basic premise is the same: as their offerings get more complex with the addition of new features; it gets increasingly difficult to release a product that is free of bugs.

I assume that Apple, like Microsoft, carries over some firmware/software with each new model; and adds new features through new software and hardware. If they start with a clean slate each time; then you are introducing increasing complex products in a relatively short development cycle.

I also wonder if Apple is suffering from the same problem as Microsoft; in that as their product base broadens, it becomes increasingly difficult to move the entire product line forward, and maintain compability with other products with which it interfaces, and at least some backwards compatilibity.

-James

[Bjoern]

I thought Microsoft only made Operating Systems and software such as Windows Office.

Zune, XBox, Natal...


A bit "Haaaaaa-Haaaa!" to Apple although I have to appreciate how Jobs at least tried to keep his cool. :d

[Lionheart]

Roger that James,

I hope that never happens. I ran away from Microsoft because of that. They seemed to reinvent the wheel every three years for making money instead of just improving the existing OS.

What's cool with apple is that they know what their software will do as they make the hardware that it will go in. Sort of like controlled testing.

[Skittles]

I thought Microsoft only made Operating Systems and software such as Windows Office.

Apple make OSX, iOS, iPhones, iPods, iPod Touches, iPads, Laptops and Desktop computers, monitors, iWork office suite, Apps, Appeture, and a list of other things varying from parts to software.


http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/2005/Xbox_360.jpg
http://www.bumpershine.com/wp-images/posts/zune_HD_black.jpg

They do have a couple.

[Skittles]

Roger that James,

I hope that never happens. I ran away from Microsoft because of that. They seemed to reinvent the wheel every three years for making money instead of just improving the existing OS.

You can't possibly suggest that Apple are any less proficient and prolific in reinventing the wheel than Microsoft.

Did you hear Steve go on the other night about video calling? He made it sound like man was about to walk on mars.

I do like the look of the new Iphone though. If it wasn't RIDICULOUSLY expensive, I would buy it in a flash.

That said the new HTC offering looks pretty smart, as in fairly amazing. That's just as expensive though. However, android phones are being offered at more entry/mid levels. I'm almost definately going to be getting an Android phone next unless Apple sort out their stupid pricing policy, which they never will.

[Allen]

Apple keeps following in MS steps...

Comming soon to a court soon... iAntitrust investigation.

http://infoworld.com/d/the-industry-standard/report-apples-iad-could-face-antitrust-investigation-864

[Lewis-A2A]

Roger that James,

I hope that never happens. I ran away from Microsoft because of that. They seemed to reinvent the wheel every three years for making money instead of just improving the existing OS.

Woah there Bill, if you think MS re-invent the wheel, your in for one hella of a shock!

Apple do exactly the same, have done for a while. And that controlled testing you talk of is loosing them developers, did you see the recent Adobe hassle.

In Soviet Russia, OS controls YOU! (and your apps, and the developers tools, and what they have to work with etc etc.)

At the end of the day re-inventing the spokes of the wheel (which is what is done by Apple and MS and every developer ever) is the only way to truly move forward.

[Ken Stallings]

I blame Apple for merely their arrogant and misleading advertising effort to imply their O/S was immune to hacking efforts. Of course, everyone informed on the issue (certainly Apple execs) knew full well they were as vulnerable as Windows O/S. The reason they could get away with inferring something else, is that the market penetration of Apple was so small the hackers didn't want to waste their time coding up the malware.

They went after the larger target.

Now that Apple is making inroads into other areas, they are now a target.

Look, there is one undeniable fact.

Every government in the world is woefully negligent in refusing to impose an INTERPOL effort to crack down on cyber crime and worldwide courts impose harsh criminal sanctions on hackers.

It is time to impose ten, twenty and lifetime prison sentences for cyber crime. It should be treated as a felony crime, same as for breaking and entering, grand theft, and malicious vandalism. Yet, the crimes are rarely prosecuted, and even when found guilty, the prison sentences are often pled down to time served and probation for no longer than a few years.

That must end!

These crimes should receive hard time and ISP's that ignore the problem should also receive sanctions in civil court. That way, when someone is prosecuted for these crimes, perhaps they may find it difficult, hopefully impossible, to ever participate in the world wide web again.

Ken

[Skittles]

Every government in the world is woefully negligent in refusing to impose an INTERPOL effort to crack down on cyber crime and worldwide courts impose harsh criminal sanctions on hackers.

It is time to impose ten, twenty and lifetime prison sentences for cyber crime. It should be treated as a felony crime, same as for breaking and entering, grand theft, and malicious vandalism. Yet, the crimes are rarely prosecuted, and even when found guilty, the prison sentences are often pled down to time served and probation for no longer than a few years.

That must end!

These crimes should receive hard time and ISP's that ignore the problem should also receive sanctions in civil court. That way, when someone is prosecuted for these crimes, perhaps they may find it difficult, hopefully impossible, to ever participate in the world wide web again.

Ken

That will never happen, and in my opinion it is debatable whether it should.

Firstly, I know that you yourself Ken are opposed to the invasion of privacy, and have raised heavy concerns about the google earth van that got tiny tiny fragments of certain people's internet data. If you endorse a complete effort to crack down on hacking/piracy you MUST submit to complete surveillance. There is no other option available. The reason many of these cases never get the 'time' they deserve is because the evidence rarely holds up. If you want substantial evidence the only way to do it is to collect it.

Of course the ISP's can't discriminate - they would have to keep an eye on everyone. How would you feel about every single action you make on the internet being widely available to the ISP's? All of your private information, all of your financial information etc?

Secondly, you can crack down on the baby crackers all you like (apparently, a hacker is by definition someone who is non-destructive, whereas a cracker is someone who hacks maliciously). The big boys aren't going to be brought down by their ISP. These guys can and do regularly circumvent the internet defenses born from the greatest minds in the world. They have a team of thousands and thousands at microsoft yet it takes one smart guy to write something that can destroy people's work and completely infiltrate your operating system.

Gary McKinnon, a Scottish national who is facing extradition to the US happily got into NASA, USAF, USN, US army and the Department of Defence. The US authorities have accused him of "deleted critical files from operating systems, which shut down the US Army’s Military District of Washington network of 2,000 computers for 24 hours, as well as deleting US Navy Weapons logs, rendering a naval base's network of 300 computers inoperable after the September 11th terrorist attacks."

This is open to debate - it is thought that the US just about made this up to justify his extradition. He maintains he was none destructive and the relevant authorities have made no evidence to UK courts to say otherwise. But get this. He did this on a 56k dialup modem and was only found out when he miscalculated a time zone and remote accessed a computer someone was actually using (for two years they knew he was in there - and they couldn't do a damn thing until he cocked up and used his own email address). He was in there 97 times on a computer working at 56k and the combined might of the entire US forces could do nothing to stop him.

So essentially for every one you put away there's 10 to take his place.

Another potential problem is the 'Interpol' issue. The US are chasing McKinnon's extradition like nobodies business.A quick google search reveals that the majority of agressive hackers come from China and Russia. Can you see a day when China and Russia will extradite nationals to the US? There would quite literally be a war before that happened. He has aspergers syndrome. Is it right to extradite him to a country in which, by many judges and lawyers own submission is unsympathetic to medical conditions? The US offered him 18 months in US jail then repatriation to the UK if he went to America and pleaded guilty. They then refused to put that deal in writing. Yeah, sure.

Finally, hackers do have a use. You can bet your bottom dollar that US military computer security has toughened up 100 times over as a result of this. Half of our government is rightly telling the US to sod right off, and we're just about your closest allies. That says something about how effective this would be.

McKinnon didn't even do anything special. He just had a poke around on completely unsecured computers on which the operators were using default passwords. Would you rather he do it in his pursuit that the US government have found aliens? Or would you rather it be the taliban?

A couple of thoughts for now.