Ohio's crazy new speeding rule

[OBIO]

The Great State of Ohio now has another reason to avoid it....the police no longer have to use their radar guns to determine if you are speeding. They can give you a speeding ticket based on their visual estimate of your speed.

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=137256

OBIO

[Terry]

Sweet racket! Now people 5 mph over will be accused of 20+ over to rake in the cash. Wonder how much the judges get?

[Lionheart]

Sounds like Arizona... .

Want to make money off of people!? Be a cop! Tons to be made.... Bonus's galore.



Bill

[Mathias]

WOW, that is so clearly against the principle "not guilty until proven otherwise", I hope you have some working high court over there to go against that rule.

[HouseHobbit]

:a1451:

Yea this is insane!! The problem is the High court in Ohio are the ones who have giving their blessing to by pass our rights as Americans..
So Now you can be charged without any proof, and found guilty without a chance to defend ones self..Your word against a Cops, who do you think they will believe..
Welcome to the new American Police state, OHIO..
This is a Outrage...

[brad kaste]

....Maybe too many of their radar gun units read telephone poles instead of motorist and gave up on the units....

[Dain Arns]

I hate to burst all of your bubbles today, but that's the way it's always been.
A speeding violation is first visually determined by the officer.
Many jurisdictions prefer or require that the officer's visual findings are confirmed by either a clocking method, or the more convenient use of RADAR these days.
But prior to RADAR, back in the good old days before Interstate highways, that's the way it was.
Many of the laws haven't changed since the mid 50's, thus the Ohio Supreme Court ruling in this case.

Rule of thumb, don't speed, no problem. Right?
Saves you a whole lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth as well.

[Terry]

Sounds like Arizona... .

Want to make money off of people!? Be a cop! Tons to be made.... Bonus's galore.



Bill

Bill,

They are getting rid of the the permanent site radar traps here, but have you noticed the massive increase in radar vans, there popping up everywhere.

[tonybones2112]

:a1451:

Yea this is insane!! The problem is the High court in Ohio are the ones who have giving their blessing to by pass our rights as Americans..
So Now you can be charged without any proof, and found guilty without a chance to defend ones self..Your word against a Cops, who do you think they will believe..
Welcome to the new American Police state, OHIO..
This is a Outrage...

With all this high-flung talk about "rule of law" a cop is going to have to demonstrate the scientific foundation for his estimate of my speed, regardless of any "high court".

I'm abouit 20 miles north of you, Hobbit.

Bones

[HouseHobbit]

:a1451:

Comments that say if you don't speed you have nothing to worry about. That's a classic circular argument. The real problem is that you might not be speeding. The proof is only in the cops head.

Pretextual stops are not unheard of, and the more lattitude the police has to pull you over on judgement, the more likely the abuse.

Less liberty, More Police power, that solves everything..
Sounds like Nazis, to me..God forgive Us..
Our founding fathers without question are spining in their graves..

Those that are willing to give up their liberty for security, soon find they have neither liberty or security..
Welcome to the new american Police state..OHIO..

[Lionheart]

Bill,

They are getting rid of the the permanent site radar traps here, but have you noticed the massive increase in radar vans, there popping up everywhere.

Yep.. They are littering up the highways with these small white trucks out on the highways between Flag and Phoenix. Go around the corner or over a mountain, (at the bottom of mountains is hilarious) and there they are, cha-ching... cha-ching... $200.00 each. Millions a year on that 'source of income'.



Dain;

You can be doing under the speed limit and you are still in their mercy, or what ever you would call it. I was doing the speed limit into Sun City once, 35MPH speed limit, in my yellow, sleek lowered Daytona with full ground effects. A delivery vehicle passed me by at great speed, then hits his brakes and I go past him at the speed limit. 20 seconds later, I am pulled over for speeding, 15 over. Nope, his buddy in the squad car saw me speeding also... Professional money making at its finest by.... oh what ever.. I have had so many tickets that I didnt dserve that I am tired of talking about it... I am ready to leave the country.


EDIT: Im going to move to Germany, get me a nice home next to the Autobahn with high speed internet, and enjoy life. :d

Trolls... Troll-ism. Thats all it is. 'Woots in yer wallet?'



Bill

[safn1949]

It's been like that in NY for over 30 years that I know of,I heard it from the Justice of the Peace himself.I also heard it from a couple of cops.Drive by the guy at 55,see him waiting there from far away and get pulled over for 68 in a 55........5 different times in NY.Always 68 in a 55,uh huh.

But that was many years ago,the cops and DOT in Ohio have always been pricks.It was a friend's husband that got New Hope shut down.:d

[Dain Arns]

Yep.. They are littering up the highways with these small white trucks out on the highways between Flag and Phoenix. Go around the corner or over a mountain, (at the bottom of mountains is hilarious) and there they are, cha-ching... cha-ching... $200.00 each. Millions a year on that 'source of income'.



Dain;

You can be doing under the speed limit and you are still in their mercy, or what ever you would call it. I was doing the speed limit into Sun City once, 35MPH speed limit, in my yellow, sleek lowered Daytona with full ground effects. A delivery vehicle passed me by at great speed, then hits his brakes and I go past him at the speed limit. 20 seconds later, I am pulled over for speeding, 15 over. Nope, his buddy in the squad car saw me speeding also... Professional money making at its finest by.... oh what ever.. I have had so many tickets that I didnt dserve that I am tired of talking about it... I am ready to leave the country.


EDIT: Im going to move to Germany, get me a nice home next to the Autobahn with high speed internet, and enjoy life. :d

Trolls... Troll-ism. Thats all it is. 'Woots in yer wallet?'



Bill


But that is the way it is for many states, Bill.
Officer discretion.

Don't like it?, contact a state representative to change the law.
You'll find legislators on your side, trust me.

I find it funny people spend so much time pissing and moaning about traffic laws that haven't been updated since the 1950's in many areas, yet do nothing about it.
Change them! Put those slobs to work for you in your state capital!

BTW Bill, if you get stopped in Germany, it's not uncommon for one officer to talk to you about the violation, while his partner is holding a submachine gun pointed straight at you.
I know all about that.
Thought I'd warn ya before you start packing up. :d

[Willy]

The cops in Belgium tote Uzi's too.

We could use some of that here. I live on a little paved 2 lane country road that runs parallel to a US highway. 45mph speed limit and people run it at 55+ staying off the main highway to avoid the cops. It's not safe to walk across the road here to check my mailbox. The county has jurisdiction, but they don't have any radar guns. And the State Troopers won't set up because it's a county road. Someone will have to get killed before they do anything about it despite numerous complaints from the people who live on this road. I just hope it aint me or my family.

[Henry]

The cops in Belgium tote Uzi's too.
and in Spain
had a couple aimed at me before now
H

[jmig]

I have been driving for 45 years. Over the last 10-12 years I average 30-40,000 miles a year. In that time I have gotten speeding tickets. I have NEVER gotten one I didn't deserve. In fact, several times I was let off with a warning and once he gave me a seat belt violation instead. (I was wearing a seat beat but it didn't go on my record)

I too sometimes have mental phobia over policemen and think of all these horrid unfair events that might happen. They have never happened. I am not saying there aren't police who are crooked and abuse their power. I just think it is rare that one does.

The vans scare me. My wife just got a ticket by one. She was just pacing the traffic. It use to be if you paced with the rest of the traffic they didn't bother you. The vans ticket everyone in the stream.

[Bjoern]

It could be worse...you could live in Norway for example.

9468

[CP1207]

As a graduate of the Ohio State Highway Patrol Radar school (many moons ago), a big part of the field training involved being able to visually gauge a vehicle's speed without benefit of radar. I was consistently able to hit it within 2 MPH of what the radar indicated.

That being said, I have no idea what current training standards are and hope this ruling is designed more for the Captain Obvious moments like a car going airborne (FS related!!!) after hitting a bump in a school zone, rather than as a revenue enhancer, but as I grow older and more suspicious, I have my doubts.

BTW- hardly ever wrote speed tickets other than for 20+ over and most useful result of taxpayer provided training was schooling an FHP trooper on what "shadowing" was after being erroneously pulled over in the Florida Keys for speeding.

So, Thank You State of Ohio Taxpayers. Your thousand dollar training saved me from a one hundred dollar fine, and maybe helped edumacate a Florida State Trooper. Maybe.

P.S. OSHP training also made me confident that I was only ticketing people that deserved it and not recording speeding mailboxes and the like.

[Lionheart]

BTW Bill, if you get stopped in Germany, it's not uncommon for one officer to talk to you about the violation, while his partner is holding a submachine gun pointed straight at you.
I know all about that.
Thought I'd warn ya before you start packing up. :d

eeeks! :icon_eek:

[Ken Stallings]

I hate to burst all of your bubbles today, but that's the way it's always been.
A speeding violation is first visually determined by the officer.
Many jurisdictions prefer or require that the officer's visual findings are confirmed by either a clocking method, or the more convenient use of RADAR these days.
But prior to RADAR, back in the good old days before Interstate highways, that's the way it was.
Many of the laws haven't changed since the mid 50's, thus the Ohio Supreme Court ruling in this case.

Rule of thumb, don't speed, no problem. Right?
Saves you a whole lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth as well.

You're kidding, right! I mean, seriously!

One thing for a cop to see someone they SUSPECT of speeding based on visual. Then, if they clock you using their speedometer while behind you, or even setting the speed limit plus 10 and they aren't catching up too quickly, or using radar to record the speed -- I'm fine with that -- Book 'em Dano!

But to give the ticket merely on visual estimate?

That's unsupportable and you shouldn't be so wiling to give the police such descretionary powers.

I hope the citizens of Ohio are raising hell over this. You should all be calling your state representatives and making it clear that regardless of how desperate they are for increased revenues, that this isn't going to be tolerated.

Make it an election issue!

Ken

[aeromed202]

This topic is close to my work.

That is kind of what this all about, a lack of consistency at the enforcement and court level. There has to be an understanding that speedometers can be off as well as laser or radar guns. I have to believe that officers and judges are aware of those facts and will exercise due regard for them, and frankly I don't.

Look up Click and Clack, my source for laughs and insightful commentary. I happen to agree with Tommys observation that any driver, myself included, that routinely drives over the limit, even a little, conditions him/herself to disobey the law. Speed limits then become almost a joke. I mean really, what part of LIMIT don't we understand? The result is that we get indignant when we get caught.

And sadly I have almost never met a driver, alive or dead, that really had a need to drive as fast or as aggressively as they did to wind up in my bailywick.

[Mathias]

But that is the way it is for many states, Bill.
Officer discretion.

BTW Bill, if you get stopped in Germany, it's not uncommon for one officer to talk to you about the violation, while his partner is holding a submachine gun pointed straight at you.
I know all about that.
Thought I'd warn ya before you start packing up. :d

What an utter nonsense, where did you get that?
Actually the police is having a hard time getting their speed "tickets" shot with their hand-held radar guns validated by court simply because those things are considered unreliable.
In fact, if you get caught with one of those things the odds are with you.
Most courts these days over here say, if they don't have better proof than that leave the poor driver alone. :-)
As for German police in commen and that gun swinging nonsense you just bothered to share with us, I don't think that you will find a more layed back and none-agressive officer anywhere in the world than here in Germany.

[tigisfat]

I'm not one for alarmist conspiracy theorists and ultra-political activism, but frankly, crazy stuff is happening. It may not be this, persay, but it seems that our rights are in jeopardy all over the US. That's the natural evolution of things when the quick fix for everything is a new law.

[Roadburner440]

I must say that I have never been pulled over unfairly. In fact I just got pulled over last week Friday cause I was being a donkeys rear end on the road... Regardless I do not think most police are out to target speeders (in Florida anyway). Have a 500+ horsepower vehicle I would of definately felt the wrath by now if that were the case. Only have issues when I act the fool though on public streets. Think I would of learned from the first time I got pulled over 3 years ago. Have a good week makes ya careless tho. Just kept my mouth shut, handed him my papers, didn't say squat. For some reason gave me a warning. I think eventually though there will be radar camera things on top of most light poles and such... Just seems to be the direction things are going.

[stiz]

But to give the ticket merely on visual estimate?


its actually pretty obviouse. I walk along a road that has a 60 limit and you can deffinitly tell whos speeding!

[magoo]

Voluntary tax.

I used to drive a '57 Volkswagen panel van. 1200 cc engine. Could not get a ticket no matter how hard I tried. Had to satisfy myself with blowing kisses at the lady cops as I trundled through the radar traps.

What heady days they were......

[Toastmaker]

Voluntary tax.

I used to drive a '57 Volkswagen panel van. 1200 cc engine. Could not get a ticket no matter how hard I tried. Had to satisfy myself with blowing kisses at the lady cops as I trundled through the radar traps.

What heady days they were......



Well, at least you TRIED, Magoo. . . you know, it's the thought that counts !!

:running:

[NoNewMessages]

Ohio? Brings back such "fond" memories.

For the truck driving community, Ohio held a special spot in their, er.. hearts. Many states have a split speed limit, one for commercial traffic (trucks) and a higher limit for non-commercial. Ohio was always very strong in their enforcement efforts against big rigs. For me, it would have required an act of congress to see my truck ever go over the (last I knew) 55mph limit. Unless you were a complete n00b, you always had your CB radio turned on when traveling the highways and byways of the Buckeye state to keep track of where the Bears were.

Reading an article in one of the trucking rags and my jaw about fell off, as it quoted some Lt. in the OSP who basically said "There's lots of leeway for the truckers. We won't start ticketing them until they got up around 60." That trooper needed to take a drug test!! Cause the real world didn't match his fantasy realm.

Other states have split speed limits, same as Ohio. But few had such an enforcement presence. Even Kalifornia has a 55mph limit for big trucks, but you needed to be 10% above that before you had to worry. I still appreciate that one CHP officer who helped ensure the accuracy of the speedometer on a truck I had just bought. My 60mph was the same as his 60mph.:ernae:

[Crusader]

As a graduate of the Ohio State Highway Patrol Radar school (many moons ago), a big part of the field training involved being able to visually gauge a vehicle's speed without benefit of radar. I was consistently able to hit it within 2 MPH of what the radar indicated.

That being said, I have no idea what current training standards are and hope this ruling is designed more for the Captain Obvious moments like a car going airborne (FS related!!!) after hitting a bump in a school zone, rather than as a revenue enhancer, but as I grow older and more suspicious, I have my doubts.

BTW- hardly ever wrote speed tickets other than for 20+ over and most useful result of taxpayer provided training was schooling an FHP trooper on what "shadowing" was after being erroneously pulled over in the Florida Keys for speeding.

So, Thank You State of Ohio Taxpayers. Your thousand dollar training saved me from a one hundred dollar fine, and maybe helped edumacate a Florida State Trooper. Maybe.

P.S. OSHP training also made me confident that I was only ticketing people that deserved it and not recording speeding mailboxes and the like.

Very well stated , I was a member of the OSP in 1970 and 71 . Graduated Dec 12 , 1969 and drew Post #27 , Gallipolis , Oh . Very little activity other than speed and DUI's . Like a fool , I quit and became a OTR truck driver . I still to this day havn't fiqured that one out . At the time with OSP I was making $4.71/hr and we had no overtime , just comp time . I rarely wrote a ticket unless it was 10 to15 mph and over . I believe our policy at the time was a minimum of 10 mph . Boy , we did write a hell of alot of 4511.19's http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon7.gif (DUI's) . At the time there were wall to wall bars and ginuine "Rednecks" all up and down the Ohio River . Brings back alot of memories .
Got very dangerous and the wife wasn't real happy about me being in law enforcement . But I truely wish I would have stayed with it . (especially for the retirement)

Rich

[HouseHobbit]

I am still amazed at all of this, Most all comments in the local paper have been very unhappy about this freedom given to the police..

I had to test it today, But I didn't find a Cop to test it all on..
So my 130 mph on my Harley was for nothing..
OH well. I'll test this another day..
LOL..:icon_lol:

[PRB]

All this is about speeding tickets, right? All you people raising "heck" over this really need to come clean and just admit you think you ought to be able to speed whenever you feel like it (hey, I was late for work, I had to go fast!) If 5 knots over the limit is ok, why isn't 10? And if 10+ is ok, what's the big deal with 20? Seriously, has anyone in the history of automobiles ever gotten a speeding ticket who wasn't speeding? In reality, it's the other way around. Most speeders don't get tickets because there is no cop to catch 'em. I've been driving for over 20 years across most states in the US and have never gotten a speeding ticket ever. And yes, I do drive over the posted speed limit, I just don't go double the posted speed limit! :icon_lol: And on military bases, you don't go 5 knots over the posted speed limit. 1+ may be pushing it!

[Willy]

The only speeding ticket I ever got was for 82 in a 55 and I deserved it. I was going down I-10 in Alabama and was actually slowing down when I was caught. Nothing for it but to man up and take it.

[tigisfat]

All this is about speeding tickets, right? All you people raising "heck" over this really need to come clean and just admit you think you ought to be able to speed whenever you feel like it (hey, I was late for work, I had to go fast!) If 5 knots over the limit is ok, why isn't 10? And if 10+ is ok, what's the big deal with 20? Seriously, has anyone in the history of automobiles ever gotten a speeding ticket who wasn't speeding? In reality, it's the other way around. Most speeders don't get tickets because there is no cop to catch 'em. I've been driving for over 20 years across most states in the US and have never gotten a speeding ticket ever. And yes, I do drive over the posted speed limit, I just don't go double the posted speed limit! :icon_lol: And on military bases, you don't go 5 knots over the posted speed limit. 1+ may be pushing it!

I speed everywhere but base housing! You're telling me you've never let loose on the backroads of Ft Benning?:icon_lol:

[redriver6]

Voluntary tax.

I used to drive a '57 Volkswagen panel van. 1200 cc engine. Could not get a ticket no matter how hard I tried. Had to satisfy myself with blowing kisses at the lady cops as I trundled through the radar traps.

What heady days they were......

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Gdavis101]

In my years of driving I have NEVER had a speeding ticket, parking ticket or otherwise, and when I used to write speeding tickets it was done mainly without radar and was always rather obvious that the driver was speeding. The only time we really ever used radar was when we had time to set up and watch an area for awhile, otherwise we were to busy handling other high priority crimes.

Just this morning I was going to work and there were two deputies coming the opposite direction with lights, sirens and as I pulled to the side of the road with the rest of the traffic to wait for the cops to go by the jack hole behind me, who was in a big red Ford Pickup, almost side swiped me because he wasn't paying attention and speeding. It truly amazes me how self involved people really are when they are behind the wheel and show how careless they can be.

[strykerpsg]

I speed everywhere but base housing! You're telling me you've never let loose on the backroads of Ft Benning?:icon_lol:

Benning doesn't have a lot of good roads to run wide open on unless you're on the Alabama side, however Hood is fantastic for commuting between main post and north Ft Hood. The only thing to watch for at Hood is Open Range cattle versus Benning's trainee's everywhere.

[dominique]

The issue is not so much to drive below a limit (the letter of the law) than to drive at a safe speed in a certain environment (the spirit of the law). An analog estimate by a patrolman of good faith, in case a digital readout is not available, seems to me entirely justified. I may add that if you don't trust your local police in enforcing the law in a fair manner, you urgently need not to equip your local force with radarguns but to change the Chief...

For the record, I drive generally too fast and in my whole life, got one speeding ticket in France and three warnings in the US (TX, AZ and CA). HWPs seem more lenient than French gendarmes :). The police state is still a bit far away.

[Thoe6969]

Yeh,sure is a racket,no way can they tell how fast your going just by looking.