Air Race questions

[pilottj]

Hey folks,
I was watching the Indy 500 and it gave me somthing to ponder about air racing. Like many of you, I enjoy watching these amazing souped up warbirds in the Unlimited class. However somthing in me has this nagging fear that eventually after years of this envelope pushing flying, many of these old birds are either going to crash (very sad to see it happen) or pushed until they are no longer airworthy. And since many of them are relatively rare warbirds it seems that it is slowly draining a precious collection of planes from the sky.

My question is, with todays composite technology and powerful turboprops, it seems they could design aircraft that are certianly as fast if not faster and quite exciting and yet we seem to not be looking for an eventual replacement for the 'unlimited' class. I dont want to see it replaced but I feel it may be inevitable.

Cheers
TJ

[tigisfat]

Hey folks,
I was watching the Indy 500 and it gave me somthing to ponder about air racing. Like many of you, I enjoy watching these amazing souped up warbirds in the Unlimited class. However somthing in me has this nagging fear that eventually after years of this envelope pushing flying, many of these old birds are either going to crash (very sad to see it happen) or pushed until they are no longer airworthy. And since many of them are relatively rare warbirds it seems that it is slowly draining a precious collection of planes from the sky.

My question is, with todays composite technology and powerful turboprops, it seems they could design aircraft that are certianly as fast if not faster and quite exciting and yet we seem to not be looking for an eventual replacement for the 'unlimited' class. I dont want to see it replaced but I feel it may be inevitable.

Cheers
TJ

Many of the racers up at Reno have been racing for a long time. We see the same birds every year. Believe it or not, the number of airworthy warbirds is actually climbing these days. More and more of them are being found all over and restored. That's not to say your point is invalid, but the easy counterpoint is why should they stop now when they weren't stopped when there were less airworthy warbirds?

There are several 'new' classes at reno, such as the formula guys with their sleek composite racers, and personally, I think the jet class kicks butt.

[stuartcox]

Yesterday's Indy 500 was half an air race...!:jump:

[pilottj]

You are right Tig, these birds were designed for the rigors of air combat so they are certianly capable of air racing. I don't think the unlimited would or should end in the near future, but for the long term it may be somthing to consider.

perhaps there could be an oppertunity to really bring air racing back to its glory years when it was nationally popular...ie Thompson/Schnieder cup years. There you had races that were a matter of national pride, pride of designers, and use/development of cutting edge technology of the time. I think the redbull guys have touched on idea this a little which has become somewhat popular, but I think it could be expanded to feature cutting edge designs racing at unlimited class speeds.

You might have a designs from Lancair, Cirrus, Extra, Diamond, Zlin, Sukhoi, Scaled Composites, Cessna, Piper, Beech, and so on. It would really be a competition of design as well as the skill of the racer.

Anyway just some thoughts

Cheers
TJ

[airtj]

You have to remember that the air races are still in their infancy in my opinion. It's not as popular as the Indy 500, compare to all the advertising that Indy gets Reno doesn't get that much. I've been going for over 10 years and it still fun to see the unlimited race. You can never find another venue that will allow aircraft to go that fast and fly low. The pilots of the unlimited aircraft know the risk envolved in air racing, the reno association take ever pre-caution they can to lessen aircraft accidents. Most of the unlimited pilots are military pilots so their experience in the military has helped alot when they need it. The pilots have to attend PRS to be certified to be able to race on the course. All the pilot's help each out with their knowledge and often lend other teams parts when they need them. The Reno Air Races website has alot of good information

Reno Air Races
http://www.airrace.org/indexJS.php

[srgalahad]

You have to remember that the air races are still in their infancy in my opinion.

A long infancy... Reno is just the most recent of the major air racing venues/events in the US and air racing in an organized form goes back to almost the beginning of flight.

I agree that today it's more of an issue with the warbirds being seen as 'historical resources' but most of the racers are far-removed from the combat a/c they started as. They have been modified, rebuilt, re-engineered, re-engined and many probably don't have even 75% original metal in them.
While a 'new' racer category could possibly come forward, the glory and the crowd value is likely just as much because of the piston sounds as the speed and historical connections. I wonder how excited the general public would be with whining turbines... I imagine a scratch-built "Unlimited" class airplane would still be a multi-million $ project - in a day when even Indy and F1 are trying for cost-controls.

"The 1929 event ran from August 24th through September 2nd,and consisted of some 35 closed course flying events,eight(8)Air Derbies,an Aeronautical Exposition,the National Glider Conference, and Wings of 1929,a Aeronautical Musical Extravaganza.It was also at this 1929 Air Classic of the Century that the Golden Age of Air Racing is said to have started. On Monday, September 2,1929.when during a racing "free for all"(We call it unlimited today) The domination by the Army and Navy came to an end during "Event #26- Free For All" The grand finale at the 1929 Cleveland Air Races, when Pilot Doug Davis http://goldenageofaviation.org/Trav.gifbeat the Army and Navy in his sleek little Travel Air Mystery Ship monoplane. This crushing defeat of the military domination of air racing was a defining moment in aviation history. It caused the military to get rid of their World War I concepts of Aerial warfare and to start ordering state-of-the-art aircraft.More than 500,000 tickets were sold for the 1929 races, which took place over a ten-day period."
http://goldenageofaviation.org/airrace.htm

Society of Air Race Historians -- http://www.airrace.com/

http://www.opencockpit.net/racing.html
http://www.aerofiles.com/nar.html


Also, part of the appeal of the Golden Age racing was it's proximity to population - Cleveland, Los Angeles, etc. but those days are long gone with lawyers, the FAA, the pols all worried about liability and so now Reno, as spectacular as it is for aviation fans is not a mass-market racing event for Joe Lunchbucket. (That's why the Red Bull series gets crowds of 100,000+ and perhaps close to 500,000 in Europe and elsewhere. - it takes place "downtown" on a small course).

There's a personality factor as well.. in the 30's even people in small towns knew Roscoe Turner, Jackie Cochrane, etc. and many were seen in small towns as they passed through on legs in the Bendix Race and were treated as 'national heroes'. Their exploits were front-page news, not something on specialty TV, enthusiast magazines and aviation forums. TV really doesn't do Reno justice.. either in sound or atmosphere - you have to BE THERE!

Remember that back in the 30's aviation was exciting and still new for the average person. Few had ever flown - today people see aviation as military a/c and tubeliners and are horrified at the idea of a crash - yet that's what gets people running back to the 15 replays of an 'event' at Indy (car crashes are OK but plane crashes are unacceptable?). Certainly, safety is important, and no wreck is good, but people view airplanes differently and somewhat remotely.

Rob

[safn1949]

A question on air racers,is anyone racing a Super Corsair or is the one in Fargo the only one flying?

[airtj]

I haven't heard of any one racing a corsair. It can always happen, I think the new owner of Race 57 still lets Odegaard fly the corsair. Jimmy Leeward flew Doug Matthews F4U-4 Corsair at the races last year. For more up to date info on Reno and what's happening go to


http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2

[safn1949]

I was under the impression that the Corsair at Fargo,ND was the only Super Corsair still in flying condition.I don't know.I know it is still painted in racing colors and I need to drag myself up there to see it.:d