Is there hope for a 3ds Max (current version) user?

[BushAV8R]

Hello all,

Last year, I started a thread about my journey learning Gmax and aircraft modeling using Milton's awesome C162 tutorial. However, I gave up, because I was missing the basics and could not always follow. However, that inspired me to really learn 3D modeling and I singed up for 3ds Max training. I finished the first two courses of 3 and right now I am in the 3rd one. I now feel pretty comfortbale in Max, the complete interface, all the nice modifiers and just the whole modeling workflow and would love to start with an aircraft.

Last year I had the chance to get 3ds max for a student price. However, it is the full version and I can use it for commercial purposes since I made a crossgrade to this version. It cost a little, but it was worth it. So I have Max 2010 and due to my subscription I also have 2011 now.

The problem I see is that I have no chance to bring my aircraft model from Max 2010/2011 into FSX right? That would be sooo bad, because I would love to start making add-ons for FSX.

Is there any way to get around this problem, so that I can still use Max 2010/2011 for the modelling and hopefully texturing too.

Would be nice if somebody can share his knowledge with me. I can just not belive that all the nice add-ons are only created using Gmax or an old Max version. Nothing against these, but is nobody using current Max version?

Looking forward to your answer and thank you for your help.

-Pete

[Mathias]

The FSX SDK only works up to Max 2008 32b, but I guess you know that.
But you can always import your finished Max mesh to Gmax and export from there.
I think you would have to redo shaders since the none of the exporters can deal with the aces materials.
Not too sure how animations, in particular skinned mesh animations, port over so you may want to do those in Gmax.
On the technical side, you can either export to 3ds from within Max and re-import this one to Gmax, or you can use Bobo's File format BFF.
For Max 9 (should work with newer versions, too):
http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/bff-2007
The nice thing about BFF, unlike the 3ds route it keeps your triangulation, hierarchies, part names, UV coordinates and the like intact

[BushAV8R]

Thanks Mathias.

Yes, I heard that Max is only supported up to version 2008. I will check out the BFF script. Hopefully it works with 2011 too.

What are you using for modeling?

Just a pitty that there is no support for user with the current Max version anymore. :-(

[hairyspin]

Please let us know if you get BFF to work with Max 2011. :wavey:

[BushAV8R]

I will check it out in the next weeks and let you know about the outcome. :)

One more question for you all. What would be a "normal" and reasonable poly count for an aircraft?

I am planning for a very detailed (exterior and cockpit) general aviation aircraft, and don't want to bring down the FPS a lot.

[Mathias]

Hiya BushAV8R,
I'm on "9".

If you aim to make your project playable even on low end systems I'd say go with 60k faces each for the interior and exterior maximum.
The recent high detail payware stuff that has been released during the past year for FSX goes much higher though. Think twice as much or even more.
Key is to put some thought into your use of shaders, means don't go overboard with the number of textures.
Rather use one large sheet instead of four smaller ones for instance.
Also make sure to unwrap your geometry as seamless as possible.
The automatic unwrap features in Max are great but they tend to leave you with a lot of seams so you may want to stitch edges after hitting the "flatten mapping" button in the unwrap modifier.
In many cases you do better with good old planar mapping.
All that is to keep both the number of texture vertices (each seam dublicates the number of those things) and number of drawcalls low since those put drain on the pipeline.

There is however one thing to keep in mind, that's the 64k texture vertex limit per material.
Let's do the math:
You have the diffuse texture, the spec texture, bump texture, fresnel ramp texture and maybe a reflection map, makes up for 5 maps.
Dividing your geometry vertices by 5 leaves you with about 13000 geometry vertices that you can assign to a material. Substract some texture vertices due to inevitable mapping seams and you may be limited to just 10000 vertices per material.
But fear not, there are ways around that. We can talk that over once you run into your first export module failure. :-)

[BushAV8R]

Hey Mathias,

awesome information and it gives me a first impression of what to keep in mind and what poly count is acceptable these days. Really nice and thank you for taking the time writing this. Much appreciated!

Also thank you for your offer in helping with my first export problems. I keep that in mind ;-)

Did you buy version "9" in the past and kept it, or do you know if it is possible to get an older version from autodesk, if one is on a subscription? I will ask autodesk as well, but maybe you know too.

By the way, awesome work on the FW 190. One of my favorite WWII aircraft. Unfortunately, I missed seeing it flying for real, but I have the chance to see the Me109 flying pretty often and can walk up to it as often as I like :-)

I am working as an aerospace engineer in the area of flight training simulation in Manching, Germany, where this bird is located. The Me108 is located here as well, but I am sure you know that. Are you in contact with the guys from the Messerschmitt museum?

-Pete

[BushAV8R]

...one more. You said 60k each for the interior and exterior. That means 120k polys in total, right?

Just to make sure I got that right what you said.

[Mathias]

Sorry Pete, missed this one,

well, yes and no.
You know you have two mdl files in FSX, one each for the VC and the external view.
In external view you would tone down the cockpit detail whereas in VC view you want as much cockpit detail as you can get but delete everything from the outside model that is not visible from the pilot seat.
So basically you are working off two separate source files, one optimized for VC view, the other optimized for external view.
If you want low end performance keep it to 60k for each mdl.
If you want high end just double the poli count.
I heard that the Aerosoft F-16 uses something like 250.000 faces or more in each mdl.
:eek:
You've got pm, btw!

[BushAV8R]

Since I am on 3ds Max subscription, I am able to get Max 2008. :)

I thought that this is not possible, but I can get 3 of the previous versions. Luckily 2008 as well.

Max 2008 should work with FSX, right? Can I just use the "normal" FSX plugins or do I have to use something special or a special setup for Max 2008?

[Mathias]

http://blogs.technet.com/b/torgo3000/archive/2008/05/19/sdk-maxscript-tools.aspx

Got your mail btw, Pete, will answer ASAP! Thanks!

[Daycab]

I thought I had heard you could use Max up to Version 9.4 or somewhere near there...

[hairyspin]

Read Mathias's post before yours and follow the link. The author of that material is the author of the SDK for FSX - and he does know what versions work....