Basic computer queries

[PeteHam]

Hi Folks,

Just a couple of basic queries ....

#1 Is it better to leave a computer switched 24/7 or switch it off each night and restart it in the morning?

Is there any benefit leaving it on ( minimising startup wear vs extra power usage )

#2 I've got a Vista OS , but as it was installed on the computer when I purchased it I have no back up disc. Somewhere on the computer are the main Vista OS files which I'd like to copy onto an external HD for safe keeping incase I need to reinstall it.

On start up there used to be a popup screen with the info on it but a computer tech removed this.

Where would I find them ?

Thanks for your help.

Pete.

[tigisfat]

I'm no computer expert, but I've heard from many to leave your computer on. This isn't always feasible though. You'd be shocked at the power consumption of a really high end computer.

[PRB]

BASIC computer query...? Computer humor! :d

I've always heard that it's better to leave it on, for the reasons you stated. It may be, but I don't think the extra wear and tear on the power supply and other moving parts is significant. I've turned off my five year old computer every night since I've had it. Still going strong.

[brad kaste]

....A friend of my who's extremely computer savvy,...from servicing them to building them for others,...says it really doesn't make a difference. He does turn his own off at the end of the day.

[jhefner]

Turn it on and off regularly, and supposively the thermal cycles can age or loosen parts on the circuit board.

Leave it on all the time, and you can wear out the bearings and other moving parts in the hard drives and power supply.

I have a computer I bought new in 2002; the only things that have been replaced are the video card, mouse, and keyboard. What finally died -- the stepper motor or bearings in the read/write head of the main hard drive.

(Got my mileage out of it, but can't help but wonder if running FS2002 on it with all of it's read/write acitivity finally did it in.)

-James

[safn1949]

Go to control panel and you will see backup and restore,it will walk you through it.:d

[Wing_Z]

I let my XP box go into standby, usually with a zillion files open.
It's a real pleasure to touch the switch next day, and up it pops where you left it.
It just keeps RAM alive, so very little power drain.

With my VISTA box...I upgraded to WIN7 :d

[PeteHam]

Go to control panel and you will see backup and restore,it will walk you through it.:d


I don't think that will help me.

What I'm trying to find on my HD is where the Vista OS is , so I can make a copy to keep as a backup.

I think from memory it's about 4.5Gb

Thanks every one for your feedback.

Pete.

[Dangerousdave26]

Very few Home PC or Gaming PC are built with the durability of a server in mind.

The cooling fans may not be designed to run 24/7.

Your power supply will degrade over time. Leaving it on 24/7 accelerates the degrading process.

This is from a power supply calculator.


Electrolytic capacitor aging. When used heavily or over an extended period of time (1+ years) a power supply will slowly lose some of its initial wattage capacity. We recommend you add 10-20% if you plan to keep your PSU for more than 1 year, or 20-30% for 24/7 usage and 1+ years.

Finally leaving it on 24/7 will gaurentee that your electric bill will be higher.

If I leave my home server on all the time (Dell PowerEdge 2500) it costs me an additional $50 a month on my electric bill.

That's a lot of Payware Planes in a years time that the power company got.

[Willy]

I turn mine off if I'm not going to be using it within the next hour or so. Also if there's a t-storm about, I'll turn it of and unplug it. I lost a brand new one about 10 years ago when lightning ran in on it through a surge suppressor. I'm not going through that again.

[MaddogK]

Turn it off at the end of the day (of course your OS will prolly want to update itself, but screw it). When turning it back on wait for the drive activity light to go off before logging in.

[Quixoticish]

....A friend of my who's extremely computer savvy,...from servicing them to building them for others,...says it really doesn't make a difference. He does turn his own off at the end of the day.

This has always been my opinion on the situation. The argument between increased thermal cycles from turning it on and off on a regular basis and increased risk of wearing out moving parts and other components from leaving it on is really a moot point with modern technology, they really won't make much if any difference.

The only point to argue really is that your bills will certainly be higher if you leave it on, and if you support the notion of man made climate change or just plain think we should at least make an effort to treat our planet with a bit more respect then the only sensible answer is to turn it off really.

[David_L6]

I run www.WorldCommunityGrid.org so I leave my computers on 24/7.

[Snuffy]

Peter,

Some thoughts from my peanut gallery:

1. First: Turning on and off does not cause that much of a "wear factor" on the parts, no more so than leaving it run 24/7. However, constant exposure to heat from leaving it run doesn't do it much good ...

Secondly: Leaving your system running 24/7 especially if you're continually connected to the internet leaves you open for hackers to try and enter your machine. Oddly enough there are those people out there that have nothing better to do than screw with someone else' life by destroying their computer. These people have scanning capabilities that find open internet connections and can monitor your connectivity to determine if you're a candidate for an attack. Turning your system off and leaving it off over night or when not in physical use, (you sitting in front of the keyboard and monitor,) will prevent these attacks, as well as it stops the flow of phishers and other software that broadcasts virus and other nasty stuff over the net daily.

When I'm not in front of my system, and I know I'm going to be away from it for longer than an hour or so, I turn my system off. If I know I'm going away from the computer for a short period of time and that I'm coming back to it, (making lunch or some such,) I disconnect my T1 from the router as a means of security.


2. First: Backing up your OS. Without knowing where you got your system nor the brand, I can not say for certainty, but IF you have an O.S. running and you do not have a CD provided by the supplier of your computer, chances are your O.S.'s validity may be suspect. If you bought a brand name system, they should have supplied you with a "back up copy" of the O.S. on a CD and labeled it as a "Recovery Disc" or some such.

Also, if you got it from a local computer store and its a "custom" machine, there is a chance that your computer supplier dude has a single version of an OEM license and he's multi copied that single license over multiple systems. If that's the case, your O.S. may be illegal.

Secondly regardless of your backing up your O.S. files, you will never produce a bootable re-installable version of the O.S. software. Since version 95 Windows now scatters O.S. files over the harddrive in various locations and not under a single folder like what 3.1 or D.O.S. used to do, so you can't just back up a folder and expect to have a working copy of the O.S. There are files that are specifically written to the registry and other system levels, that are not recoverable or capable of being "backed up" in the fashion you seek to do.

Third: The only sure bet for a secure bootable and re-installable O.S. since you don't seem to own an operating system CD ... is to go to your local computer store, (in this case Wal-Mart will work,) and buy a fresh version of the O.S. you want to run. This way you know the O.S. is legit and when MS does an online system scan, you know they will find a legal copy of the software and you'll have less to worry about from the software police.

[txnetcop]

Been doing computers since 1976 including MAINFRAMES...it is a question that has no right or wrong answer! When you leave it on there is wear. When you turn it off and on there is wear-much like a short-which it is sort of...so I let mine hibernate and click a key when I'm ready to use it again. I built my box three years ago and still running strong
Ted
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[java2srv]

Pete, Snuffy,

My new little Dell (Win7) came with reinstall files scattered all over the place. Some came on CD with the system, some I had to download from Dell, and some were on the hard drive with a utility to burn them to CD/DVD. I gather this is what Pete is referring to when he mentions a pop-up that used to load when he logged in.

Pete, if you can give us the brand and model of your system someone here might be familiar with how the maker has the user create the re-install disk(s).

:wavey:

[Snuffy]

Pete, Snuffy,

My new little Dell (Win7) came with reinstall files scattered all over the place. Some came on CD with the system, some I had to download from Dell, and some were on the hard drive with a utility to burn them to CD/DVD. I gather this is what Pete is referring to when he mentions a pop-up that used to load when he logged in.

Pete, if you can give us the brand and model of your system someone here might be familiar with how the maker has the user create the re-install disk(s).

:wavey:

No offense Java, but that is exactly why I don't buy brand name computers. Its all in an effort to control your future purchasing dollars.

From what I gathered with Pete's comments, he didn't even get any CD/DVDs from his computer supplier, which is why he's seeking to back up the O.S. If he had the recovery disc, or any other software from the manufacturer, there wouldn't be a need to back up just the O.S.

I encountered the above mentioned situation with a Compaq computer I bought. I got tired of their messing with me in that regard, so I went and bought a fresh O.S. package and wiped the harddrive and started over with that O.S. ... never had a problem after that.

That Compaq, was the last brand name computer I've owned. It was a 386.

I build from scratch and I install fresh pressed Operating Systems from a purchased CD/DVD.

[safn1949]

I don't think that will help me.

What I'm trying to find on my HD is where the Vista OS is , so I can make a copy to keep as a backup.

I think from memory it's about 4.5Gb

Thanks every one for your feedback.

Pete.


When you go there it will give you the option of making a image of the OS,along with a repair disc,etc.:d

[java2srv]

Hi Snuffy,

Yeah, I know what you mean. Its a 13" lappy so I wouldn't usually build one myself. :d I'm used to the Dell process -- but let me tell you about my "Vista" Toshiba Satellite lappy sometime, "oh yes, you can roll this back to XP..."

I am mostly on mobile systems, my Sagers are my favorites -- of course not a brand name maker either.

Yes, I use OEM and Retail OS packages and clean wipes on new systems as well. Linux as well on some if you really want to get the weeds out of your garden. The little Dell is headed that way. I'll keep the original hard drive, I have the new replacement 500GB right here -- easier than dual boot and once you go to Linux there's not much reason to go back. This isn't a gaming rig so no Windows is not a problem for it.

v/r
:-)

[PeteHam]

No offense Java, but that is exactly why I don't buy brand name computers. Its all in an effort to control your future purchasing dollars.

From what I gathered with Pete's comments, he didn't even get any CD/DVDs from his computer supplier, which is why he's seeking to back up the O.S. If he had the recovery disc, or any other software from the manufacturer, there wouldn't be a need to back up just the O.S.

I encountered the above mentioned situation with a Compaq computer I bought. I got tired of their messing with me in that regard, so I went and bought a fresh O.S. package and wiped the harddrive and started over with that O.S. ... never had a problem after that.

That Compaq, was the last brand name computer I've owned. It was a 386.

I build from scratch and I install fresh pressed Operating Systems from a purchased CD/DVD.


Yep, mines a Compaq computer bought from a large well known store.

Pete.

[Dangerousdave26]

If you are looking for a way to back up and then restore your PC then I will suggest Macrium Reflect.

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp

I have used it twice now to restore my new laptop on to a new drive. The first drive failed but I had a back up. I sent the old drive to the manufacture who sent me the same POS drive. I restored my image to the drive and it worked good. I did not want to use that brand name so I bought a new drive the brand I wanted. I then backed up my drive and restored it again. Everything has been working fine.

I now am making periodic back up images to restore at a later date on another drive if I need to.

The down side is the image file is very large so I have to store it on its own external USB drive.

The compression ratio seems to be close to 50%

The last image I created is 59 GB in size. I think the used space on the drive was about 100 GB.

[gigabyte]

The power question is an old one and there are lots of opinions, for my main system I use the built in power management, it is often overlooked but it really is very handy. Look in the Vista Control Panel for "Power Optons, and you can select a basic power scheme that is close to what you want then just tweak it to suite your situation, then Windows will tak care of everything for you after that. On my own system I have the monitor black after 20 min, the hard drrive after 45 and the system hibernates after 1 hour. There are lots of options, I use some of the advanced settings like Wake On Lan so I can wake the system up if I am on the road and want to "Call Home", but most people don't need that stuff.

Regarding the backup of your OS, please let us know what system it is, many systems have a diagonistic partition that contains the full OS and allows you to create the disks, with Acer for example you touch F6 during boot up to get that partiton then you see the options in a menu, normally the files on that partition are not visable at all when you are running Windows as the partition is hidden. I know Toshiba does something the same for their systems, and you should be able to find the instructions in one of the system guides or on the Mfg support site.

[java2srv]

Hey Pete

Try these web pages on the HP/Compaq help web (or Google/Yahoo/Bing web search for the page titles.)

HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Looking for Recovery Discs?
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bph07143


Creating the Recovery Disc Set in Windows Vista (link in page above)
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&docname=c00882383


I can't explain why manufacturers do this. Some claim its licensing. At one time on a Dell Mini 10 if you ordered Ubuntu Linux you could have 2GB of memory and a 250GB hard drive. If you got XP you could only get 1GB of memory and only 160GB hard drive. After I looked at that a couple times I got dizzy and fell over -- so I stopped thinking about it. On new Mini 10s you can get Win 7 with the larger hard drive and more memory, but still not for XP.

I don't try to make sense out of this any more. :jump:

[PeteHam]

Thanks Java2srv :jump:

That's the info I was looking for :applause:

For the others who followed this post , here's what's happened ......

Most HP and Compaq desktop PCs that ship with Windows Vista and XP do not come with recovery discs. Instead, they use a partition on the hard drive. Using a hard drive partition provides a convenient, more stable recovery solution. To access a hard drive recovery, turn on the computer and repeatedly press F11 until a recovery window opens.

Thanks again to all who replied :salute:

Pete.




Hey Pete

Try these web pages on the HP/Compaq help web (or Google/Yahoo/Bing web search for the page titles.)

HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Looking for Recovery Discs?
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bph07143


Creating the Recovery Disc Set in Windows Vista (link in page above)
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&docname=c00882383


I can't explain why manufacturers do this. Some claim its licensing. At one time on a Dell Mini 10 if you ordered Ubuntu Linux you could have 2GB of memory and a 250GB hard drive. If you got XP you could only get 1GB of memory and only 160GB hard drive. After I looked at that a couple times I got dizzy and fell over -- so I stopped thinking about it. On new Mini 10s you can get Win 7 with the larger hard drive and more memory, but still not for XP.

I don't try to make sense out of this any more. :jump: