Arizona Official Threatens to Cut Off Los Angeles Power as Payback for Boycott

[jmig]

Putting aside the debate on whether Arizona is right in passing this law, I find Arizona's response interesting. Far too often, in my opinion, elected officials get too big for their britches and start throwing their weigh around, with no idea of the full implications and consequences. Usually it is down to play to the emotions of their constituents.

This will be interesting to watch and see how it plays out.


If Los Angeles wants to boycott Arizona, it had better get used to reading by candlelight. That's the message from a member of Arizona's top government utilities agency, who threw down the gauntlet Tuesday in a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa by threatening to cut off the city's power supply as retribution.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/19/arizona-official-threatens-cut-los-angeles-power-payback-boycott/

[Panther_99FS]

This will be interesting to watch and see how it plays out.


You mean the story or this thread....:d :ques:

[jmig]

You mean the story or this thread....:d :ques:

Oh I know about the thread. :jump: The story.

[Snuffy]

You mean the story or this thread....:d :ques:


Yes! :icon_lol:

Already being discussed in the Quartermoon! ;) (somewhat.)

[Dain Arns]

Good! More power to them.


A-Hahahahahaha! :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
(Dain make punny)

[Sundog]

ROFL, idiots. They can't do that. They would be in violation of so many laws if they did that they would end up in prison. They would violate NERC and FERC regulations and they would have to island their own part of the grid and would probably end up driving their own power companies out of business if they were able to accomplish it. I can't believe the vapid stupidity of some these politicians these days. Maybe Arizonans can hire some grown ups to run their state.

[Snuffy]

ROFL, idiots. They can't do that. They would be in violation of so many laws if they did that they would end up in prison. They would violate NERC and FERC regulations and they would have to island their own part of the grid and would probably end up driving their own power companies out of business if they were able to accomplish it. I can't believe the vapid stupidity of some these politicians these days. Maybe Arizonans can hire some grown ups to run their state.

Ummm ....

Last I knew the river that feeds some of the power generators for LA ... runs through AZ ... all it would take is a colossal dam and some water diversion.

:)

[Allen]

Arizona can do what it wants. If you don't like it and you run your mouth, you better be ready to pay for it. In this case L.A ran it's mouth and Arizona vary well may have a way for L.A to pay for there mouth.

If Arizona can legally cut of L.A power, more power to them. This law has no affects that reaches L.A or C.A. So L.A should STFU and GTFO before Arizona leave them powerless, but that may be to late....

[tigisfat]

Arizona can do what it wants. If you don't like it and you run your mouth, you better be ready to pay for it. In this case L.A ran it's mouth and Arizona vary well may have a way for L.A to pay for there mouth.

If Arizona can legally cut of L.A power, more power to them. This law has no affects that reaches L.A or C.A. So L.A should STFU and GTFO before Arizona leave them powerless, but that may be to late....

:icon_lol::salute:

[tigisfat]

hmm,

I grew up in California. As such, being a white kid, I was a minority. The majority of kids I went to school with were Latino, as were most of my friends. There was never a divide or lack of assimilation. Latino culture is so much a part of California that my white parents used to cook mexican food half the time for dinner.

There's a wierd bipartisan thing going on here, and I don't understand how racism has anything to do with this. The people who want to seal off the border are being called racist? The people who DON'T want the border sealed off are declaring their support for the Latino community? I don't get it. The two have nothing to do with each other. I want the border sealed off, and I've never had anything but respect for the Latino community.:kilroy: We have to control what comes into and out of this country, hence the reason for customs and border patrol.

[Allen]

hmm,

I grew up in California. As such, being a white kid, I was a minority. The majority of kids I went to school with were Latino, as were most of my friends. There was never a divide or lack of assimilation. Latino culture is so much a part of California that my white parents used to cook mexican food half the time for dinner.

There's a wierd bipartisan thing going on here, and I don't understand how racism has anything to do with this. The people who want to seal off the border are being called racist? The people who DON'T want the border sealed off are declaring their support for the Latino community? I don't get it. The two have nothing to do with each other. I want the border sealed off, and I've never had anything but respect for the Latino community.:kilroy: We have to control what comes into and out of this country, hence the reason for customs and border patrol.

:salute:

[tigisfat]

Far too often, in my opinion, elected officials get too big for their britches and start throwing their weigh around, with no idea of the full implications and consequences.


On both sides!! Maybe they should return the boycott and show LA how much it has to lose. Like Arizona's legal and illegal immigrants wouldn't be hurt by a boycott by LA in the first place?

[Roadburner440]

I personally think CA has no business telling AZ what it can and can't do. That is why there are states in this union so people can go to states they like, and leave the ones they don't. I do think it is interesting as there were articles the other day about people cancelling conventions and such in CA, and the local commerce chambers were telling the CA gov that they were ruining their economy. I say more power to people. I am glad to see a lot of people willing to take their business out of CA and give it to AZ. CA is in no position to have an opinion about anything at this point given their dire financial straights.. I do not think it would be right for AZ to cut off CA's power though. I do not believe a majority of the people stand behind the CA gov in their opinion on this, so I do not think it is fair to punish the people for their stupidity. I also do not think it would be legal either, although I will admit I do not know the laws on such matters. Kudo's to AZ tho for at least threating CA. That is more than most states would do. Definately have some fight in them.

[traindriver98]

hmm,

I grew up in California. As such, being a white kid, I was a minority. The majority of kids I went to school with were Latino, as were most of my friends. There was never a divide or lack of assimilation. Latino culture is so much a part of California that my white parents used to cook mexican food half the time for dinner.

There's a wierd bipartisan thing going on here, and I don't understand how racism has anything to do with this. The people who want to seal off the border are being called racist? The people who DON'T want the border sealed off are declaring their support for the Latino community? I don't get it. The two have nothing to do with each other. I want the border sealed off, and I've never had anything but respect for the Latino community.:kilroy: We have to control what comes into and out of this country, hence the reason for customs and border patrol.


Thank You for this statement. I too grew-up in the Southwest, El Paso Tx. Not being Hispanic along the border can be an unpleasent thing. It is unbeliveable how many people flow across our southern border. If you want to get a first hand account of the problem go to the ER of any county hospital along the border.

[jmig]

The chances of AZ cutting off electricity to CA are nil and none. The official was merely making a point. If L.A. wants to boycott AZ business, go all the way.

[txnetcop]

We have decided to spend out vacation money in AZ this year...more power to them (so to speak)!
Ted

It is not just Arizona's problem, it's every US Citizen’s problem too. Look who is coming across the border. This is an Atlanta news channel. We will probably never see it in a national news outlet





Video 1 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html (http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html)

Video 2 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html (http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html)

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[Sundog]

Many of you missed my point and don't understand how the power grid operates. Arizona can not shut down power to another area without endangering the entire western power grid and their own power grid. In that regard, many of you are just as ignorant of how the power grid operates in this country as the politicians are. You can't just "flip a switch' and shut something off in the power grid without completely separating from it. If Arizona was to separate from the Western Interconnect, it would greatly endanger their own power grid more so than another grid. It wasn't a political statement, it was a "physics" statement. No amount of political grand standing can get you around that point.

[Allen]

Video 1 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html (http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html)

Video 2 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html (http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html)


I feel safe now...

[jhefner]

Many of you missed my point and don't understand how the power grid operates. Arizona can not shut down power to another area without endangering the entire western power grid and their own power grid. In that regard, many of you are just as ignorant of how the power grid operates in this country as the politicians are. You can't just "flip a switch' and shut something off in the power grid without completely separating from it. If Arizona was to separate from the Western Interconnect, it would greatly endanger their own power grid more so than another grid. It wasn't a political statement, it was a "physics" statement. No amount of political grand standing can get you around that point.

Yes, you are correct. Power is wheeled through each region of the country through an AC grid, and the entire country through DC tie lines.

I have been out of the market for some time, but I think basically you have people selling the power they generate on the grid on one end (imagine for a minute a wire going from a power plant to the customer, though reality is much more complicated), and the customer paying for the energy used on the other end.

Both are sending and receiving power into a power pool, if you will; so you cannot buy an electron of electricity from AZ, and have it sent to CA.

However, what you can do is manipulate contracts between the buyer and seller. LA has to purchase it's power from someone, AZ may be able to raise their rates, or refuse to sell power to them. (If not the baseline power needs, then the peak power needs that are purchased on an as needed basis.)

If this were not the case, then for example; a local utility here in Texas cannot claim to offer wind power generated electricity to it's customers. They are not doing this by running a wire from a wind farm to their customer's house; but by buying blocks of available power from the wind farm producers, and selling that power to the customers who choose to subscribe to them. That has been the case since Texas at least has broken away from the traditional regulated model of the utility generating the power, transmitting it to the customer, running wires to the customer's house, putting the meter on the house, and billing them for the usage. Now, one group of companies generates and transmits the power, and another runs the wire to the customer and bills them for it; the customer choosing who they will buy power from. If they change electricity providers, that won't mean the wiring outside their house or business will change; just who they are purchasing it from.

The physical facts of the matter are though, that the power being consumed in LA is being generated in AZ. The only way AZ could put the screws to CA right here and now is to shut down their dams and power plants, something that would hurt both parties and others on the grid, and harm them legally. But but they can influence the market through the power contracts so that LA has to pay more for their electricity.

That is why California was having problems with rolling brownouts last year. They needed more power, but all of the providers out of state were already loaded to the max supplying customers in their own state, and had no capacity to sell to CA. So CA had to resort to rolling brownouts to keep the grid within the state from collapsing.

[tigisfat]

I used to get a lot of security briefings up until a few months ago. I'll bring you guys in (who don't already know) some basic stuff that's unclassified and is meant for wide dissemination.

The border towns are teaming and brimming over with weapons and drug cartels. The crime is out of control, and law enforcement has little control anymore. It's so bad that there are crime syndicate foot soldiers dressed as federales. We need to control that now. This isn't and shouldn't be a racial issue, ever. Not to mention all the terrorists which have had communications intercepted while discussing supplying terrorists and extremists via the Mexico/US border because it's a big hole.

[Cratermaker]

I thought Texas' grid was isolated from the rest of the US?

[tigisfat]

I thought Texas' grid was isolated from the rest of the US?

You can entirely shutdown regions, cities and even neighborhoods. The reason they are isolated is so that if there's a problem like a blown station component, the whole Western United States won't be out power. The ability to even perform rolling brownouts is evidence thereof.


Not that it'd EVER happen, but I'm positive that parts of the LA area could be shutdown if the controlling authority decided a retaliatory blackout was going to happen. I don't have to have any advanced education in physics or insider trade knowledge to know that.

[Lewis-A2A]

US Civil war?

The Royal Navy is offshore ready to take back the colonies :p:

[gecko65]

US Civil war?

The Royal Navy is offshore ready to take back the colonies :p:

Yes, just sit quietly and watch us implode :gameoff:

[cheezyflier]

times like these make me glad i'm not in the states. things are gettin ugly real fast

[jhefner]

I thought Texas' grid was isolated from the rest of the US?

Actually, the entire United States is broken up into regions. Much of Texas is indeed it's own region, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or ERCOT.

However, all the various regions are tied together through DC tie lines. As tigisfat said, those ties can be cut to prevent the entire United States from being blacked out by a single event; or else the event that caused New York to be blacked out could have propegated throughout the entire country and caused a nation wide blackout.

The DC ties allow generators in one region to wheel their excess power to other regions, and visa versa.

-James

[gecko65]

Visualizing The U.S. Electric Grid (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=110997398)




(http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=110997398)

[Lionheart]

Arizona has a Nuclear Reactor plant called Palo Verde Nuclear Power Station. It supplies power only to California. None goes to Arizona. Now why... why why why would we (Arizonians) do that? crazy.

As for hiring grownups to run our state, I would like to know where to find them. I would love to vote in some people to better run this state. Presently its like old Germany before WWII. Even the sheriff is tied to the local nazi party, and he is (was) trying to run for Govenor!!!!!!! A govenor nazi that makes his own laws on the streets...

I have room to talk. I have one of their police around the corner who does what he will. he is known as the neighborhood bullie. Slightly nutty dude, him and his wife both...


Bunch of nuts..


If I could move to a better place, I certainly would, but would love to vote better people in instead. There are better ways of handling the border. This is America, for goodness sake. We are made of people from other countries. We could do things better then we are and be more humane in the carrying out of justice. There is no need for racism war.


Bill

[tigisfat]

There is no need for racism war.

Agreed!! I said it before and I'll say it again, neither side of this debate should have anything to do with racism. Claims of racism can preceed extreme fascism, such as Hitler's editorials about Jews before WWII. If people keep screaming about how racist this is, more people will blindly join them and then we could be headed for deep trouble.

[TeaSea]

Honestly, I thought the state of Arizona was only trying to comply with the requested boycott from LA. Since LA desires to boycott Arizona, it's only right that they boycott Arizona...which means no power from Arizona....I assume that LA wouldn't want any LA dollars going back to Arizona to pay for utilities. Kind of defeats the purpose of a boycott.

Oh wait, that's not really what they meant?

Silly, and a good lesson in hyperbole from politicians, especially local politicians with a particular political axe to grind who don't have to bear any responsibility or burden for their actions or statements.

It is also a good reminder that the U.S. is a REPUBLIC. In this REPUBLIC for example, one state can sanction gay marriage, and another outlaw it and both states would be within their rights. Somehow our education system seems to miss this somewhere. I hope those new Texas school books cover this point better.

[MCDesigns]

Arizona has a Nuclear Reactor plant called Palo Verde Nuclear Power Station. It supplies power only to California. None goes to Arizona. Now why... why why why would we (Arizonians) do that? crazy.

As for hiring grownups to run our state, I would like to know where to find them. I would love to vote in some people to better run this state. Presently its like old Germany before WWII. Even the sheriff is tied to the local nazi party, and he is (was) trying to run for Govenor!!!!!!! A govenor nazi that makes his own laws on the streets...

I have room to talk. I have one of their police around the corner who does what he will. he is known as the neighborhood bullie. Slightly nutty dude, him and his wife both...


Bunch of nuts..


If I could move to a better place, I certainly would, but would love to vote better people in instead. There are better ways of handling the border. This is America, for goodness sake. We are made of people from other countries. We could do things better then we are and be more humane in the carrying out of justice. There is no need for racism war.


Bill

The only people making it a racism war are the ones that are illegal. The new law is about carrying out the laws that are already on the books that most states have done their best to overlook enforcing and have caused this situation by doing that for so long in the first place. I went to the rally that LULAC had in downtown Dallas a few weeks back to SUPPORT Arizona in doing what is right and it was amazing how many ignorant, closed minded people, of all races there were there, most fueled by people with agendas other that supporting the laws of the land.

I am thrilled to see Arizona standing up and not giving in to all this bullying, makes me want to move there even more! :salute::USA-flag:

[redriver6]

As for hiring grownups to run our state, I would like to know where to find them. I would love to vote in some people to better run this state. Presently its like old Germany before WWII. Even the sheriff is tied to the local nazi party, and he is (was) trying to run for Govenor!!!!!!! A govenor nazi that makes his own laws on the streets...

if you are going to accuse folks of being nazi's i'd kinda like to see some proof of that....any links?

i know some people that live in Arizona and have heard no such comparisons..

[Devildog73]

There are very valid reasons that over 70% of Arizona residents, support this law. A great number of those supporters are of Hispanic ancestry. Does that sound racist to anyone? I see almost daily official reports on illegal drug cartel activities in our border States and in Mexico. More people are dying along the USA-Mexico border than in Iraq and Afghanistan together. Think about that for a moment. El Presidente Calderon is in Washington, DC today. Somebody needs to ask him what would happen to an American illegally in Mexico for an extended time. Mexico has some pretty strick immigration laws and penalties, yet want the USA to have none.

I strongly support Arizonan's right to protect themselves with laws before or until they are reduced to armed conflict and the igniting of a war between the USA and Mexican governments and people. But then, more people are dying along the Mexico-USA border yearly than in the two wars the USA is currently fighting.............

[Rami]

Arizona can do what it wants. If you don't like it and you run your mouth, you better be ready to pay for it. In this case L.A ran it's mouth and Arizona vary well may have a way for L.A to pay for there mouth.

If Arizona can legally cut of L.A power, more power to them. This law has no affects that reaches L.A or C.A. So L.A should STFU and GTFO before Arizona leave them powerless, but that may be to late....

I completely agree with this, McDesigns and with Devildog's comments. Well stated! :salute:

It reminds me of what my mother used to say..."If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about."

[Ken Stallings]

Well, I'm just going to say I totally agree with the response. You want to start something you best determine the consequences.

LA needs Arizona more than Arizona needs LA.

LA also has an emerging problem with Nevada and Arizona both regarding how much water they are taking out of Lake Mead and the Colorado River.

In my view, LA better start learning quick how to play nice with others or things could be mighty grim for them very soon!

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

Many of you missed my point and don't understand how the power grid operates. Arizona can not shut down power to another area without endangering the entire western power grid and their own power grid. In that regard, many of you are just as ignorant of how the power grid operates in this country as the politicians are. You can't just "flip a switch' and shut something off in the power grid without completely separating from it. If Arizona was to separate from the Western Interconnect, it would greatly endanger their own power grid more so than another grid. It wasn't a political statement, it was a "physics" statement. No amount of political grand standing can get you around that point.

You don't think they could merely isolate the lines running to LA?

I'm thinking it could be done without endangering the entire grid. For example, when a city suffers a blackout, there are alternate paths opened to prevent a city-wide blackout shutting down an entire region.

Besides, using the word "ignorant" seems a bit harsh to me.

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

Bill,

I'm of the opinion that whoever evokes the Nazi reference has pretty much ceded the discussion!

I'm really surprised you said that.

And like people have said, 70% of Arizonans support the law, and that includes a whole lot of Hispanic people. I think the bottomline behind that is they want to protect their children and society as much as anyone else does!

You know, because they are Americans first and care as much as I do about what happens to their country -- which is the one who's flag is red, white and blue and NOT red, white, and green!

Ken

[Snuffy]

According to a current poll ...

Thank you for voting!




<LABEL class=pds-feedback-label for=PDI_feedback1>Yes. Arizona exercised a state's right to protect its citizens -- L.A.'s way off-base, and this sends the message loud and clear. 93% (195,525 votes) </LABEL>


<LABEL class=pds-feedback-label for=PDI_feedback2>No. Arizona is now as over-the-top as L.A. -- let's grow up, people. 4% (7,437 votes) </LABEL>


<LABEL class=pds-feedback-label for=PDI_feedback3>Not sure, but it's an interesting response -- let's see what happens. 3% (6,114 votes) </LABEL>


<LABEL class=pds-feedback-label for=PDI_feedback4>Other (post a comment) <1% (960 votes) </LABEL>


Total Votes: 210,036

BTW, this isn't just Arizonians, this is everyone who reads this media source ... so its from around the world.

:ernae:

[Piglet]

Lionheart,
Wanna trade home states?
Better brush up on yer Spanish (and Korean, Armo, Chinese, Swahili...)

[cheezyflier]

this whole thing makes me nervous.

on the one hand, i believe something should be done about the illegals. of course, i have serious doubts you can stop the water once there is a hole in the dyke.

on the other hand, i see what happened after 9/11. the paranoia and grandstanding led to the patriot act, the largest single erosion of our freedoms in the history of our country. i know that walls keep people in as well as out. i don't like where america is headed. laugh if you want, but i really think ice-t saw the whole thing coming all the way back in 1989.

YLYLO8jv9lQ

[Lionheart]

Ken,

I said it because I believe it. My mother used to work near the Sheriff and we hear 'alot' of things. I wouldnt have otherwise. I see these guys on my daily news all day long and for years, this has been getting 'out of control'.

Now, yes, we need to protect our people. But so far, whats going on is that in South Phoenix, tons of people are pulled over because they are spanish, and told to show ID to be in the country. The people pulling them over are very bruff dudes. They are not gentlemen. I have had run ins with these guys.

This is what people are freaking out about. And me..

We should have had the border more better protected 10 years ago, yes. But we need to treat people here in Phoenix a bit better. Innocent until proven guilty. You forget your wallet at home and have a nice tan, you might find yourself in Mexico so fast, it aint funny.


How about that interview with Obamma and the President of Mexico? The USA translated for him stating his translator didnt translate properly. Scary.


Its a pressure cooker. I just hope it smooths out to normality and doesnt get all freaked out. It could get much much worse.


Bill

[gecko65]

But so far, whats going on is that in South Phoenix, tons of people are pulled over because they are spanish, and told to show ID to be in the country.

I thought police needed probable cause to pull someone over.

[Lionheart]

I thought police needed probable cause to pull someone over.

What they are doing is setting up something like a DUI checkpoint, but instead of pulling over people that appear drunk (this is at say 11AM till 2PM), they pull over hispanics and request ID.

So I guess their probable cause is being an illegal alien by being hispanic, and the legals are realllllllllllly 'p'-d off right now about it.

[gecko65]

What they are doing is setting up something like a DUI checkpoint, but instead of pulling over people that appear drunk (this is at say 11AM till 2PM), they pull over hispanics and request ID.

So I guess their probable cause is being an illegal alien by being hispanic, and the legals are realllllllllllly 'p'-d off right now about it.

Hmmm, but doesn't the Border patrol do something similar out in the county? I see the BP checkpoints all the time down here around Tucson, and have had to drive through them along with everyone else. Or is this happening in a particular part of the city then - high Hispanic area, I suppose.

[Gdavis101]

I thought the thing about the electricity was pretty funny, but as far as the issue with Arizona's new law is concerned I am believe that they must do what they have to do to protect their state. Now, if the rest of the country could adopt something that could help with the problems at the border that would be great! Personally, I don't see what the big deal is, I carry a license and if I ever get stopped by a cop I have no problem showing it to him. I mean after all the license is essentially my proof of citizenship. And once again, if your not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about! Right?

I was watching a story on this the other day and from what I understand a cop can't just stop a person for being hispanic, they can ask for proof of citizenship during the course of an investigation that results in the police being called or in the event of a traffic stop or any type of criminal investigation.

We used to conduct what we called Terry Stops and that usually resulted in just stopping someone or some persons that might be walking down the road and acting suspicious, this was merely to collect information and most normal people would cooperate, but the ones that don't usually ended up going in because they failed to produce a valid ID and 9 times out of 10 had a warrant associated with them.

[gecko65]

I thought the thing about the electricity was pretty funny, but as far as the issue with Arizona's new law is concerned I am believe that they must do what they have to do to protect their state. Now, if the rest of the country could adopt something that could help with the problems at the border that would be great! Personally, I don't see what the big deal is, I carry a license and if I ever get stopped by a cop I have no problem showing it to him. I mean after all the license is essentially my proof of citizenship. And once again, if your not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about! Right?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there are some states where one can obtain a DL without proof of citizenship - New Mexico being one.

[redriver6]

What they are doing is setting up something like a DUI checkpoint, but instead of pulling over people that appear drunk (this is at say 11AM till 2PM), they pull over hispanics and request ID.

So I guess their probable cause is being an illegal alien by being hispanic, and the legals are realllllllllllly 'p'-d off right now about it.

man you need to work for CNN or MSNBC....that stuff will running all day on their stations...if only they knew.....and the sheriff is a 'nazi' to boot....wow great stuff there.

[Kiwikat]

man you need to work for CNN or MSNBC....


Yeah and the alternative (Faux News) is soooooooooo much better... :rolleyes:

[txnetcop]

Yeah and the alternative (Faux News) is soooooooooo much better... :rolleyes:

First of all KIWIKAT FOX has won more awards for FAIR and BALANCED than any other network! You been swallowing the network kook aide buddy
Ted

You can get a copy of the law from the Phoenix site and all it is, is an extension of a Federal Law which is not currently being enforced. Having been a cop in Texas you can't just pull someone over because you suspect they are illegal, this law does not change that! Read it!

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[Lionheart]

Here is some of the imaginary news. This is like a daily thing now here;

2F1jH6-3UeY

[redriver6]

Here is some of the imaginary news. This is like a daily thing now here;


i agree...it is imaginary...if it was true he would be in jail right now.

[MCDesigns]

Whether true or not, I just looked him up on wikipedia and based on everything I read on him makes me love the guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

[Ken Stallings]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there are some states where one can obtain a DL without proof of citizenship - New Mexico being one.

Not really true, at least not for New Mexico.

You do not have to produce any ID to register to vote, but to get a drivers license, you have to offer proof of residence. It may not prove citizenship, but you have to show a Social Security card or birth certificate, plus a photo ID, and at least two recent bills sent to an address that matches the one on a current photo ID.

New Mexico conforms with the new federal photo ID requirement. The feds now require all states to adhere to the requirements I specified.

Cheers,

Ken

[tigisfat]

Here is some of the imaginary news. This is like a daily thing now here;

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

I needed those laughs. That was the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time. What do they think they're reporting? The allegations of allegations of investigations of allegations of investigations?

"The normally talkative Sheriff refused our invitations to an interview" NO KIDDING!!

I don't know who's wrong or right in that scenario, and that 'riveting investigation' by that clown reporter didn't tell me anything to make me believe one side or the other. The best part was the background music, like a horror movie or something.


Thanks lionheart!!:icon_lol:

[Henry]

Not really true, at least not for New Mexico.

You do not have to produce any ID to register to vote, but to get a drivers license, you have to offer proof of residence. It may not prove citizenship, but you have to show a Social Security card or birth certificate, plus a photo ID, and at least two recent bills sent to an address that matches the one on a current photo ID.

New Mexico conforms with the new federal photo ID requirement. The feds now require all states to adhere to the requirements I specified.

Cheers,

Ken
i got a drivers license in Louisianana
in 84 i had not received my ss# at the time
no bills as i was staying with my brother in law
my wife had a NM drivers licence
i must admit i have never tried to register to vote
hmm interesting wonder what would happen
i am a legal alien
cost me $500.00 every ten years
i have all rights except to vote or work for the government
city,parish, state or federal
i do not believe New Mexico is any different
H

[safn1949]

In New York you need a certain # of points to get a license.Points are given for types of ID used,a Birth Certificate is mandatory and has no points.My WV license,my SS card,my High School Diploma and my last paycheck showing my WV address were what I needed to have enough points.

This was in 2006,here in Minnesota I needed my NY CDL,SS card and maybe my birth certificate,can't remember.To get Haz-Mat endorsement I had to be fingerprinted and background checked.

[Ken Stallings]

i got a drivers license in Louisianana
in 84 i had not received my ss# at the time
no bills as i was staying with my brother in law
my wife had a NM drivers licence
i must admit i have never tried to register to vote
hmm interesting wonder what would happen
i am a legal alien
cost me $500.00 every ten years
i have all rights except to vote or work for the government
city,parish, state or federal
i do not believe New Mexico is any different
H

You respected our laws and that's just one reason why we respect you, Henry.

This whole thing has a very simple solution. ....

Ready for it? .....

Apply for an receive a worker's visa, which the United States provides more of than any other nation on earth!

When you arrive here, apply for an receive a resident alien card, just as my wife has, which again, the United States provides more of than any other nation on earth.

Don't break our laws!

I take our laws seriously. I respect them. That is among the most basic obligations of a citizen and alien in a nation. It is the foundation of all civilized society.

These facts are irrefutable. Evey illegal alien is a law breaker!

If they are arrested, they are arrested in accordance with our national laws and the laws within the state they are illegally residing. They enjoy no diplomatic immunity.

There's nothing else to add.

Ken

[gecko65]

Not really true, at least not for New Mexico.

You do not have to produce any ID to register to vote, but to get a drivers license, you have to offer proof of residence. It may not prove citizenship, but you have to show a Social Security card or birth certificate, plus a photo ID, and at least two recent bills sent to an address that matches the one on a current photo ID.

New Mexico conforms with the new federal photo ID requirement. The feds now require all states to adhere to the requirements I specified.

Cheers,

Ken

Thanks Ken. So, to clarify then, having a valid driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

Next question: What are the documents that can prove citizenship in the US? Naturalization certificate obviously - anything else?

[Ken Stallings]

Thanks Ken. So, to clarify then, having a valid driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

Next question: What are the documents that can prove citizenship in the US? Naturalization certificate obviously - anything else?

Well, yes and no!

You see, to get the drivers license, you have to either prove your are a US citizen, or a legal alien. That's why either a Social Security card or birth certificate is required. If the birth certificate shows birth outside the nation, then you need to show documents that show you are legally here: a work visa, or resident alien card, or documents showing you were born overseas to US parents and claimed citizenship by birth as a result. The difference is the intent versus the reality. Of course, no one denies documents can be forged and successfully used to get a drivers license. But, the recent federal requirements were intended to help detour terrorists.

Because the bottomline is you do not need to be a US citizen to get a drivers license. My wife of course has her's and even though she's been talking about getting her citizenship, she has not yet. She does have her permanent resident alien card. So, when she got her New Mexico drivers license, she had to show her "green card," her previous Florida drivers license (that's two forms of photo ID), her social security card (which she has because of her permanent resident alien status, and of course two bills from known companies sent to our home address which matched the address shown on her FL drivers license and resident alien card.

I had to do the same thing using my SSA card, FL drivers license, and two bills.

Cheers,

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

Just listened to Megan Kelly on The O'Reilly Factor talk about the Arizona law. She made some very interesting legal reviews of federal law.

For example, how many of you knew that an FBI agent has legal authority, upheld by unanimous ruling by a federal appeals court, to pull over anyone for no probable cause simply to ask you for your alien documents? I presume if you produce a drivers license and claim citizenship the FBI agent will let you on your way -- but even as a citizen, you have no legal recourse against the FBI agent. Like I said, the federal district court upheld the legality of this federal authority by unanimous ruling!

By contrast, if an Arizona cop did this, without having any other probable cause based reason, the person (citizen or alien) has the authority under the Arizona law to file civil suit for damages (i.e. money, lots of it)? Big difference, wouldn't you say?

It's funny though, I've yet to hear anyone calling for boycott of Arizona also call for boycott of the United States! I wonder why?

Second important point ...

Right now, 86% of all American people support the right of local, county, state, and federal law enforcement to ask someone for proof of immigration or citizenship status if that request was originated by a probable cause of violating an ordinance or law. Yet, this is precisely what the Arizona law requires, and again, if the cop violates this requirement, the person can bring civil suit against the police!

These are facts, people.

Ken

[Henry]

You respected our laws and that's just one reason why we respect you, Henry.

This whole thing has a very simple solution. ....

Ready for it? .....

Apply for an receive a worker's visa, which the United States provides more of than any other nation on earth!

When you arrive here, apply for an receive a resident alien card, just as my wife has, which again, the United States provides more of than any other nation on earth.

Don't break our laws!

I take our laws seriously. I respect them. That is among the most basic obligations of a citizen and alien in a nation. It is the foundation of all civilized society.

These facts are irrefutable. Evey illegal alien is a law breaker!

If they are arrested, they are arrested in accordance with our national laws and the laws within the state they are illegally residing. They enjoy no diplomatic immunity.

There's nothing else to add.

Ken
i also take the law seriously
its the law
if ya dont agree with it get it changed
but untill then its the law
proof of citizenship is another ball of wax
im not a citizen
now i have a couple of friends
who i grew up with that are
one got as high up with Nasa
as he could he became a citizen and went further
go for it
H

[Cratermaker]

Just listened to Megan Kelly on The O'Reilly Factor talk about the Arizona law. She made some very interesting legal reviews of federal law.

For example, how many of you knew that an FBI agent has legal authority, upheld by unanimous ruling by a federal appeals court, to pull over anyone for no probable cause simply to ask you for your alien documents? I presume if you produce a drivers license and claim citizenship the FBI agent will let you on your way -- but even as a citizen, you have no legal recourse against the FBI agent. Like I said, the federal district court upheld the legality of this federal authority by unanimous ruling!

By contrast, if an Arizona cop did this, without having any other probable cause based reason, the person (citizen or alien) has the authority under the Arizona law to file civil suit for damages (i.e. money, lots of it)? Big difference, wouldn't you say?

It's funny though, I've yet to hear anyone calling for boycott of Arizona also call for boycott of the United States! I wonder why?

Second important point ...

Right now, 86% of all American people support the right of local, county, state, and federal law enforcement to ask someone for proof of immigration or citizenship status if that request was originated by a probable cause of violating an ordinance or law. Yet, this is precisely what the Arizona law requires, and again, if the cop violates this requirement, the person can bring civil suit against the police!

These are facts, people.

Ken
I saw that too and it really surprised me that there is something already on the books that is more "reaching" in federal law and court approved than what Arizona came up with. I bet a lot of people besides us didn't know about that.

But everyone is concentrating on what Arizona did. Probably because:

1) Not many know about the feds ability being stronger than what AZ came up with
2) The fed doesn't seem to want to bother with enforcing immigration law or at least is very inconsistent, unlike what it appears AZ want to do
3) The media's eyes are focused on AZ and as typical, they put blinders on for any inconvenient facts that get in the way of sensationalism

[Snuffy]

Seems a couple folks in the government haven't got time to read ... any bill for that matter.

Its 10 pages.

Read it and point out the flaws if you can find em.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/sb1070s.pdf

[Terry]

Just listened to Megan Kelly on The O'Reilly Factor talk about the Arizona law. She made some very interesting legal reviews of federal law.

For example, how many of you knew that an FBI agent has legal authority, upheld by unanimous ruling by a federal appeals court, to pull over anyone for no probable cause simply to ask you for your alien documents? I presume if you produce a drivers license and claim citizenship the FBI agent will let you on your way -- but even as a citizen, you have no legal recourse against the FBI agent. Like I said, the federal district court upheld the legality of this federal authority by unanimous ruling!

By contrast, if an Arizona cop did this, without having any other probable cause based reason, the person (citizen or alien) has the authority under the Arizona law to file civil suit for damages (i.e. money, lots of it)? Big difference, wouldn't you say?

It's funny though, I've yet to hear anyone calling for boycott of Arizona also call for boycott of the United States! I wonder why?

Second important point ...

Right now, 86% of all American people support the right of local, county, state, and federal law enforcement to ask someone for proof of immigration or citizenship status if that request was originated by a probable cause of violating an ordinance or law. Yet, this is precisely what the Arizona law requires, and again, if the cop violates this requirement, the person can bring civil suit against the police!

These are facts, people.

Ken

Another little known fact, California has a similar and slightly tougher law on the books. The media ignores it and California does not enforce it.

[Lionheart]

Another little known fact, California has a similar and slightly tougher law on the books. The media ignores it and California does not enforce it.

I remember driving through checkpoints called Border Patrol, that were located on the main highway between San Diego and Los Angeles. Lots of green and white BP trucks driving around, fast...

[MCDesigns]

I remember driving through checkpoints called Border Patrol, that were located on the main highway between San Diego and Los Angeles. Lots of green and white BP trucks driving around, fast...

"obviously" not full and not enough of them :salute:

[Ken Stallings]

Another fact, again from actually reading the law (gee I wonder how much longer it will take some folks in the federal executive and legislative branches to get around to read all ten pages!!! LOL!!), if the Arizona law enforcement pulls you over and arrests you in violation of the restrictions contained in the Arizona law, then the state has the authority to fine the law enforcement agency between $500 and $1,500 a day for each day you are held in custody!

With the current pinch that all county and municipal governments are feeling today, you really think with that punishment actually spelled out in the law that they are going to enforce it loose and fast as some have claimed they will?

Since it seems California has even stricter laws, will Los Angeles boycott California now?

How exactly do you boycott yourself? :icon_lol:

Ken

[pilottj]

pardon my sarcasm and i am sorry if i offend those who use meth but can we keep the illegal Mexicans who actually try to find work and deport the :censored: tweakers mooching off the system instead?

[Lionheart]

pardon my sarcasm and i am sorry if i offend those who use meth but can we keep the illegal Mexicans who actually try to find work and deport the :censored: tweakers mooching off the system instead?

LOLOLOL......

:d

[tigisfat]

pardon my sarcasm and i am sorry if i offend those who use meth but can we keep the illegal Mexicans who actually try to find work and deport the :censored: tweakers mooching off the system instead?


I agree whole heartedly. Sending someone to jail for destroying their life with drugs won't help anything. Sending them to Mexico will.:mixedsmi:


edit: wait, wait; I don't wish that on Mexico either. Maybe that's what we can use the last space shuttle launch for. Launching tweakers to the moon. We can make a reality show out of it.

[Ken Stallings]

I now wonder when do the shrill exclaims of the few but loud calm down and things reach equilibrium again?

Seems to be for all the bluff and bluster, that this law really attempts to help reduce crime and diminish the odds of civil bankruptcy. Can anyone logically call those goals out of bounds and reason?

And for those who claim this "isn't the way to do it," then how come so many years ago when the feds and other states claimed the same methods for themselves, this didn't blow up then into all this ruckus?

You know, before one protests something, I really think one ought to read and understand what it is that one is protesting! That way, the facts, when they emerge clear, aren't likely to cause arched eyebrows!

And finally, I think the good people of Arizona, and they are good people --damn good people, were really just faced with a difficult situation they didn't want, and became exasperated by abdication among those paid to take care of the situation not taking care of it! So, they met and formed a law that tried real hard to strike a balance of effectiveness with fairness. It pains me to see others (most of whom never had to face the tribulations that forced the law) pass aspersions and judgments upon the good people who reacted out of need.

Life would be a heap more harmonious if people just did their jobs honestly, vice out of efforts to score political points. Perhaps if the feds had done that then no state would have felt the need to take their own actions. Now they are, and more are going to soon. New Mexico and Texas are already seriously discussing similar legal remedies. Public will has spoken in a democracy. It takes a long time to mobilize such a will, but when it heads out on the path, it has a sizable momentum!

Ken

[Terry]

I now wonder when do the shrill exclaims of the few but loud calm down and things reach equilibrium again?

Seems to be for all the bluff and bluster, that this law really attempts to help reduce crime and diminish the odds of civil bankruptcy. Can anyone logically call those goals out of bounds and reason?

And for those who claim this "isn't the way to do it," then how come so many years ago when the feds and other states claimed the same methods for themselves, this didn't blow up then into all this ruckus?

You know, before one protests something, I really think one ought to read and understand what it is that one is protesting! That way, the facts, when they emerge clear, aren't likely to cause arched eyebrows!

And finally, I think the good people of Arizona, and they are good people --damn good people, were really just faced with a difficult situation they didn't want, and became exasperated by abdication among those paid to take care of the situation not taking care of it! So, they met and formed a law that tried real hard to strike a balance of effectiveness with fairness. It pains me to see others (most of whom never had to face the tribulations that forced the law) pass aspersions and judgments upon the good people who reacted out of need.

Life would be a heap more harmonious if people just did their jobs honestly, vice out of efforts to score political points. Perhaps if the feds had done that then no state would have felt the need to take their own actions. Now they are, and more are going to soon. New Mexico and Texas are already seriously discussing similar legal remedies. Public will has spoken in a democracy. It takes a long time to mobilize such a will, but when it heads out on the path, it has a sizable momentum!

Ken


Well stated Ken!