Super Bug HUD shot of F-22 kill

[tigisfat]

Gentlemen,

for your viewing pleasure. And before we say 'yeah, I'm sure it could get shot down, but that has bearing on the fact that it wins 99% of it's engagements' that could go both ways.

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt32/walkeramerican/f18fgunf2202.jpg

[deathfromafar]

I'd love to see the full video of that engagement! After seeing the Superbug F doing it's thing a few years back, my first thought was that is was no slouch in the ACM dept. Truth is that close in it's a matter of who gets their weapons to bear/nose on first. The F-22 is an incredible machine but it is very expensive to build and maintain. I still think experience with the jet is still building and consequently it's not being milked of all it's capability. I remember back in the days of the F-15A and F-16A's early on. The Air Force had a lot of technical issues with both planes as well as a bit of a steep learning curve in advanced ACM Envelopes. Stands to reason, the Eagle and Viper were very powerful and maneuverable well beyond anything used up to that point. The other thing I am hearing out of Langley is that the wrench turners are having a hell of a time keeping the Raptor maintained. They may get a writeup or technical order that isn't something that grounds the plane and they will often put off digging into it until absolutely needed. This I understand has largely to do with the coatings and quite a few panel pullouts require recoating in areas which is a real pain in the ass not unlike the F-117A used to be.
Of course having so few of these jets has driven the coast out of sight and makes the ones in service more costly to maintain. I think in the end the Raptor will acquit itself well. Look at the bright side, the closest competitor aircraft it would likely face is one of the biggest money pits any Air Force could own and is a Hangar Queen more that it sees air. BTW, keep a close eye on F-35. Seems it's price tag is outgrowing Raptor per copy and is half the plane! YIKES!

[Quixoticish]

Speculating as to the whys and wherefores is wholly irrelevant. We know nothing of the comparitive skill levels of the pilots, the situation, the condition of the two aircraft, the rules of engagement that they were both operating under, and a million and one other factors that could greatly influence the outcome.

I'm not a person who thinks that the F-22 is a super-duper unbeatable wonder jet, but common sense must prevail and it must be said that this picture demonstrates absolutely nothing at all.

[tigisfat]

.............it must be said that this picture demonstrates absolutely nothing at all.

I'm a man of science, first and foremost. I think that anyone can effectively and decisively conclude beyond reproach, just from seeing this picture, that the F-22 is the worst fighter ever built. The picture also suggests (but we're waiting for more evidence) that the Super Bug is arguably the greatest fighter ever built.

:ernae::icon_lol:

[deathfromafar]

I'm a man of science, first and foremost. I think that anyone can effectively and decisively conclude beyond reproach, just from seeing this picture, that the F-22 is the worst fighter ever built. The picture also suggests (but we're waiting for more evidence) that the Super Bug is arguably the greatest fighter ever built.

:ernae::icon_lol:

If you count all the HUD images in total from the F-22's engagements against other Fighters being BVR or ACM, you will get a glaring and lopsided rebuttal. It's not even close. Looking at that HUD data, the Bug Pilot was in Slow Speed, High AoA nose down attitude kicking hell out of his rudders to lead the F-22 judging from where the nose is pointed and where the VV/FPM is pointed. A little ingenuity at work there to effect a good gun kill. Just ask the Tomcat Pilots years ago when they got their egos severely bruised by a couple of RN Sea Harrier Pilots who "viffed" the Cats to kill them!

In a real fight the Bug would have never got that close or even seen the Raptor on radar. Maybe a 1% chance to catch one at the right moment to make a kill like that. The F-22's maneuver envelope if properly utilized is very hard for anything outside it's design to beat. One plane neither the F-22 or Superbug would ever come close to matching was the F-16 MATV. Nothing on the planet could touch it in a dogfight. Too bad the MATV retrofit was never added to the F-16 fleet. Of course this(the HUD photo) being training helps clear up the fact nothing so perfect is perfect. There's always a way to do better and outwit the other guy.

There's an old saying that famed Luftwaffe General Adolph Galland used to say which bears the photo out quite well:
"Only the Spirit of Attack born in a brave heart brings success to a fighter no matter how highly developed it may be".

[jmig]

Unless I am reading the HUD wrong, the F-18 pilot had better shoot fast and hope he gets a kill. He is in serious risk of a stall. Look at the numbers, 178 kts, 1.7 Gs and AOA of 20.3. Although the F-18 is still controllable with even higher AOA, I believe he is bleeding energy quickly.

The F-18 is out of energy. If he misses or if the F-22 has a wingman, he is DEAD.

[Panther_99FS]

I remember back in the days of the F-15A and F-16A's early on. The Air Force had a lot of technical issues with both planes as well as a bit of a steep learning curve in advanced ACM Envelopes.

Yep,
There were quite a few things F-15A/16A folks had to learn or re-learn before they became the formidible fighters that they are today...