Cocaine submarines

[tigisfat]

hey N2056,

check this out. Apparently they are having qualified people build these, and they can haul 250million worth of cocaine in one shipment FAST. They are supposedly extremely hard to detect because...they are submarines. The fiberglass hulls make it even harder.



snOEj5T81Tk

[N2056]

I heard about these awhile back. From what understand about them they are not capable of diving very deep if at all. They are designed to sit very low in the water which makes them very hard to spot from above.

http://defensetech.org/2010/04/28/southcom-battles-drug-cartel-submarine-armada/

[Panther_99FS]

History or Discovery Channel recently hosted a special on them...

[Roadburner440]

These things are pretty cool. In 2008 before I transferred to shore duty we were in a group of ships that caught the first one ever taken without being scuttled. Can't go into to many details on how they are caught, but since these submarines have come onto the scene it has made it a lot easier since they do not fly flags, and we do not have to go through the beaurocratic crap to get permission from the flag country to search them.. On that note though as I mentioned above these people usually install systems on them that scuttle the sub by quickly flooding it so then we are stuck with a bunch of "rescued" foreign sailors that we must return to their home country due to lack of evidence and then they show up back on the high seas again doing the same crap.... I give them credit as they are very smart, and know how to work the system. I will have to put up some photos of some of the ships we have had to stop with the helicopter. No pics of the submersible though as we put that under heavy guard and people were not allowed to take photos. They even turned off our communications (private ones). They are not very hard to detect though. They have diesel engines which make them very easy to pick up on Sonar, not to mention the exhaust creates one hell of an infra-red signature even in the water. The submersibles are basically just enclosed boats that merely sit a few feet below the water. They are not true submarines (at least the ones we were chasing were not). They were slightly ballasted to keep them under water, but even without the ballast they would not fully surface. They would come up just enough to where the hatch would be above the water. The hardest part is getting them to stop more so than finding them cause they always head for the nearest national water (cannot be pursued w/o governing countries permisison). It is cool that Discovery did a show on them though. I have to check that out some time.

[djscoo]

Here's a 30 min documentary on them, woth watching imo:

<script src="http://www.vbs.tv/vbs_player.js?width=480&height=270&ec=FpOGhpOo6d9MrYcXqRCuTAXznWitKDQ1&st=Motherboard&pl=http://www.vbs.tv/watch/motherboard/colombian-narcosubs" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Roadburner440]

Figured I would put up some pictures from cruise, decided not to put up pictures of the enemy vessels as that probably would be going to far, none the less though.

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/SH-60B%20Cruise/Picture061.jpg
Our aircraft sitting out on deck at the ready for short notice launch. Is hooked up to external power and all that so all the electric systems are running, just have to start the engines and go.

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/SH-60B%20Cruise/Picture036.jpg
Shot of the aircraft in a hover. That stop sign was a pain in my rear to paint. We were hoping it would get people to stop since usually you cant get radio comms with them (a bullet across the bow usually suffices).

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/SH-60B%20Cruise/Picture063.jpg
Another ship that was trolling around with us. Usually we don't travel together, but I think we were going for supplies or something. Can't remember as it was 5 years ago, but still makes for a cool picture.

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/SH-60B%20Cruise/Picture055.jpg
Once they seen the helicopter chasing them. Usually they will start throwing everything overboard in an effort to get rid of the evidence... Unfortunately they pack it so tightly that it still floats. We can spend days in efforts to find it all, and pick it up out of the ocean. It is just crazy how much of this stuff you can fit in a tiny boat. This was back in 05' before I ever even heard of these submersibles. Those started creeping up a few years later (I wound up going to the Gulf, and other operations). In 2008 when I went back out there the submersibles have become more common place.

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/SH-60B%20Cruise/Picture141.jpg
Standing watch over the goods for as far as the eye can see till it can be turned over to US Law Enforcement so it can be used in the prosecution of the "suspects." I use that term of course because you are innocent until proven guilty.. but of course that isn't very hard seeing as you are the only ones floating in the ocean and it is all caught/recorded on video tape. :ernae:

[brad kaste]

Roadburner,....thanks for posting the photos. Now,....if only the dumb Gringos stopped pushing this stuff up their noses......

[Toastmaker]

Or. . . we made recreational use of drugs legal, regulated it, taxed it and cut the Cartel's right out of their business. . .

[wombat666]

Going back more than 10 years ago the DEA (IIRC) 'captured' a fully submersible craft that had been constructed in sections well away from (so the crims thought!) prying eyes.
Once the sections had been transported to the Colombian waterfront warehouse that was the assembly 'shed' the forces of Law and Order swooped and arrested a large number of drug cartel types.
No idea what the outcome was but the name stuck ....... "The Bogata Boatbuilding and Pharmaceutical Supply Company".
:cool:

[tigisfat]

Why 'above' in the stop sign? Are you letting anyone who's disoriented on the water know where the helicopter is in relation to them?

Why do their stop signs say alto in the first place?

[Willy]

Alto is Spanish for stop.

[Roadburner440]

The helicopter was hovering off the back of the ship when I took the picture... the drug runners always know the helicopter is there: 1) You can hear an H-60, they are fairly loud 2) Until they fire upon us all we can do is basically swoop their boat, and blast it with water from the rotor down wash... The only people that are allowed to do anything to them is the Coast Guard, because if we as the Navy do anything it is considered an act of war. The Coast Guard being part of the Department of Transportation is considered law enforecement.. Now if they fire at the helicopter first, then they get the .50 cal and whatever other weapons we happen to have loaded at the time. Needless to say they all know these rules, and do not fire at the helicopter and instead head for the nearest national waters in order to attempt to get away. We painted the stop sign on the bottom of the search radar radome in an attempt to make it very clear to them they needed to stop. Needless to say they still hauled butt away, lol.

[Toastmaker]

Alto is Spanish for stop.


In some places. It also means "high" - as if the drug runners had to be reminded that they ARE !!!

The word above in Spanish is "arriba"


:icon_lol:

[Roadburner440]

Yeah, that is another problem with Spanish. Is that the same word means different things in different dialects... We had a Guatemallan on our detachment that cruise and he was the one that told us Alto meant Stop in Spanish. Then when we were in Mexico on a port visit and one of our liberty buddies ATM card got sucked into the machine, and we asked him to translate what it said that was when we found out all Spanish isn't the same, lol. Cause he just kind of stumbled across words, and when we asked he told us that it was a different dialect of Spanish. Ah well. Win some you lose some.

[cheezyflier]

what was the tom clancy book where they went after the columbian drug runners? that was a cool book.

[Toastmaker]

Definetly confusing for non-native Spanish speakers - depending on which Spanish you learned !! (Mexican, Castillian, Catalan, Argentine, etc.)

In proper Mexican Spanish, the verb to "stop" is Parar. To command someone to stop is; "parate'!
but, in many parts of Mexico, they also use the coloquial "alto" in speech and on their traffic stop signs.

English presents many of the same problems for non-native English speakers.

A few rounds across the bow seems to be a universal language, though. . . :running:

[Jagdflieger]

"Pare" (from the verb parar) also means "Stop" en Espanol. In some places in Latin America, you'll often see stop signs with Alto and Pare only blocks from each other. Alto literally means "Halt" as a command, but as an adjective, as noted above, means high, tall or even a high note in music. To confuse it even further, a bus stop or taxi stop/stand is a "parada," which also means stop.

Either way, Alto is a correct way to say Stop, particularly for a vehicle or boat. When speaking to a person, you would use the reflexive form of parar: !Parese!

[deathfromafar]

Going back more than 10 years ago the DEA (IIRC) 'captured' a fully submersible craft that had been constructed in sections well away from (so the crims thought!) prying eyes.
Once the sections had been transported to the Colombian waterfront warehouse that was the assembly 'shed' the forces of Law and Order swooped and arrested a large number of drug cartel types.
No idea what the outcome was but the name stuck ....... "The Bogata Boatbuilding and Pharmaceutical Supply Company".
:cool:

There's a few interesting stories regarding submersibles. Myself and a couple of other SOH members here haved worked in Colombia and Panama. At one time, Maritime Narco Activity was freely rampant and pretty much in plain sight in the major port areas. Within the last 10 years or so, the pressure on these operations has forced them to remote locations many of which have little to no Government presence. The largest amount of Maritime Narco Surface & Sub Activity emanates from the West coast of Colombia, North West Ecuador, and both sides of Panama. We're talking seen suspicious Maritime activity number into the high hundreds to low thousands per month. It's hard to estimate the exact ratio of how many slip past versus how many get caught but thinking of how many Naval & Coast Guard assets we have performing such duties and how many busts we get, do the rough math. There are efforts to thwart the land supply lines of such operations and boat building which are showing progress better than before. Of course, there are enforcement actions happening now at every level in the chain that have never before been done.

Hey Roadburner, thanks for the pics and Salute!

[deathfromafar]

"Pare" (from the verb parar) also means "Stop" en Espanol. In some places in Latin America, you'll often see stop signs with Alto and Pare only blocks from each other.

Either way, Alto is a correct way to say Stop, particularly for a vehicle or boat. When speaking to a person, you would use the reflexive form of parar: Para se.

Yes, "Pare" is the common word for stop, "Alto" directly translated means 'HALT" which is a more forceful pronunciation/meaning of Stop.

[tigisfat]

Alto is Spanish for stop.

I don't speak much Spanish, I assumed the Spanish was going to be close to the Latin definition, like most languages.

That's interesting to hear that 'Alto' means different things in different dialicts. Surely it started as above, as in 'mors ab alto', but how it got to 'stop' I don't know.

[Roadburner440]

You guys are welcome for the pic's. Is my pleasure. To me going out to sea and doing what I get paid to do is the life. Is a lot of long hours, and hard work but I don't think there is anyplace else I would rather be. From my own personal experience while it is on both sides of the Panama Canal, it seems to be way more prevalent on the Pacific side. It is interesting that these countries are finally starting to band together to shut down these operations, but I think it is to big of a draw money wise for them to get out. Rumors are that a lot of these guys in the boats doing the actual running are people that have excessive debt to these drug lords, and that they get forced into it to repay the debts/keep their family safe from harm. I really enjoyed the documentary on the boats though. Have never seen the inside of one. I see they had a few cuts of FLIR video in there to of them throwing the bales over the side and running. It really is incredible how fast those go-fasts are. Our pilots have clocked them in some cases (and you are talking with several tons of drugs) going over 30 knots. I guess it goes to show if you cram enough outboard motors on anything you can make it rediculously fast. I bet that ride is awful though. It was bad enough in some sea conditions being on the frigate. I can only imagine on one of those little boats weighing a couple tons must be thrashed about during bad sea states.

[Brian_Gladden]

what was the tom clancy book where they went after the columbian drug runners? that was a cool book.

Clear and Present Danger.... I've read them all and it is one of my favorites. Number two would probably be "The Bear and the Dragon"


Brian

[Ken Stallings]

Roadburner,....thanks for posting the photos. Now,....if only the dumb Gringos stopped pushing this stuff up their noses......

Ain't that the pure truth!

In my view, the best series of ads that could be run on TV would be those who show people shooting drugs and then cut to all the goons and terrorists in the world who finance their evil through its sales!

Ken

[Roadburner440]

Well they do show it on t.v. Mr. Stallings. Is called Intervention, Cops, and the "Worlds Dumbest" series. :icon_lol: They just don't show how all the money funds terrorism, and illegal groups. I think if the news channels quit talking about celebrity drama though that the masses would quit watching anyway, so that is why they keep running that junk in the news repeatidly. I predominantly watch Fox News, and even that barely scratches the surface of a lot. So talk radio news it is for me, but to a lot of people that is for old fogies. I personally think the quickest way to get people to stop doing drugs is just to make it all legal.. I used to smoke and drink (both underage) then when I hit the age of each it suddenly became no more fun, and I magically quit both. At first I think there would be a flock of people doing it just because, but that would quickly fall off. There's a whole host of other issues that go along with that though, and that delves into politics which I will leave off at. Just to many factors involved to say what will/won't fix it. I just know that prohibition isn't panning out very well, and causing us to spend billions of dollars to slow down a tiny percentage of the the total business. Cause when these guys lose a whole boat of this stuff it is obviously a drop in the bucket. They expect it to happen, and plan accordingly. For all the searching we do on boats, and the little we actually are able to find and seize I am sure over 90% is making it to its final destination.

[Ken Stallings]

Well they do show it on t.v. Mr. Stallings. Is called Intervention, Cops, and the "Worlds Dumbest" series. :icon_lol: They just don't show how all the money funds terrorism, and illegal groups. I think if the news channels quit talking about celebrity drama though that the masses would quit watching anyway, so that is why they keep running that junk in the news repeatidly. I predominantly watch Fox News, and even that barely scratches the surface of a lot. So talk radio news it is for me, but to a lot of people that is for old fogies. I personally think the quickest way to get people to stop doing drugs is just to make it all legal.. I used to smoke and drink (both underage) then when I hit the age of each it suddenly became no more fun, and I magically quit both. At first I think there would be a flock of people doing it just because, but that would quickly fall off. There's a whole host of other issues that go along with that though, and that delves into politics which I will leave off at. Just to many factors involved to say what will/won't fix it. I just know that prohibition isn't panning out very well, and causing us to spend billions of dollars to slow down a tiny percentage of the the total business. Cause when these guys lose a whole boat of this stuff it is obviously a drop in the bucket. They expect it to happen, and plan accordingly. For all the searching we do on boats, and the little we actually are able to find and seize I am sure over 90% is making it to its final destination.

Unfortunately, history does not pan that out. I know that Switzerland is clamping down the laws against drug use because they realized their efforts at liberalizing the use laws in fact created a massive epidemic of drug addiction. In the United States, drug use was largely unregulated during the 18th and 19th centuries and the addictions became widespread, especially in certain regions of the country.

I agree that the primary focus must be upon reducing consumption, but I believe that goal can be accomplished through education and primarily by removing the chic label from the useage. Frankly, people need to be reminded that only losers use drugs.

One of the great myths is that drug use only hurts the individual. God, if only that were so! Beyond hurting families and the individual, it most certainly harms society. By financing drug empires, it can also harm an entire planet, and without question as it threatens to destroy Mexico, the drug use problem simply must receive an increased emphasis of attention.

In short, shun it wherever it is found!

Ken

[cheezyflier]

In the United States, drug use was largely unregulated during the 18th and 19th centuries and the addictions became widespread, especially in certain regions of the country.



Ken

america's war on drugs didn't really come from this. the time period you speak of, the focus was on opium, brought here by the chinese who had the priveledge of building a good portion of our railroads. china's growth was heavily stunted because of opium addiction. it lasted all the way up into the early 1900's. sadly, their problem with opium largely came from trade with western europe, if i remember right.

america's war on drugs stems from the end to alchohol prohibition. with the huge numbers of jobs created in law enforcement and revenue collection came a rather healthy economic stimulus at a time when it was most welcome. as with all other forms of income, they were loathe to see it dry up when it was realized that prohibition wasn't working. just after this period, a decade of drought in america's breadbasket made the illegal mexican farm hands un popular. how to get rid of them? kill 2 birds with one stone. stigmatize marijuana use, keep law enforcement busy and drive out the illegals at the same time. this is what eventually became america's war on drugs. even then it wasn't really put into full swing until reagan made president in the 80's.

[tigisfat]

We all live in a cocaine submarine...a cocaine submarine...a cocaine submarine...

82ignV9HIdQ



:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
That was for you, roadburner!!

[wombat666]

america's war on drugs didn't really come from this. the time period you speak of, the focus was on opium, brought here by the chinese who had the priveledge of building a good portion of our railroads. china's growth was heavily stunted because of opium addiction. it lasted all the way up into the early 1900's. sadly, their problem with opium largely came from trade with western europe, if i remember right.

america's war on drugs stems from the end to alchohol prohibition. with the huge numbers of jobs created in law enforcement and revenue collection came a rather healthy economic stimulus at a time when it was most welcome. as with all other forms of income, they were loathe to see it dry up when it was realized that prohibition wasn't working. just after this period, a decade of drought in america's breadbasket made the illegal mexican farm hands un popular. how to get rid of them? kill 2 birds with one stone. stigmatize marijuana use, keep law enforcement busy and drive out the illegals at the same time. this is what eventually became america's war on drugs. even then it wasn't really put into full swing until reagan made president in the 80's.

It's not often mentioned but China and their Opium 'problem' was a result of the old British Empire and the East India Trading Company.
I can't be bothered looking up the details but the East India 'entrepreneurs' made massive profits out of Opium (grown in India and Afghanistan IIRC) in the 18th and 19th centuries, there were a series of 'Opium Wars' fought by the British in the latter part of the 19th century to eliminate the Chinese protesters (if I can use that term) who were concerned about the harm this business enterprise was causing the Chinese people.
And of course Britannia won each time.

[tigisfat]

It's not often mentioned but China and their Opium 'problem' was a result of the old British Empire and the East India Trading Company.
I can't be bothered looking up the details but the East India 'entrepreneurs' made massive profits out of Opium (grown in India and Afghanistan IIRC) in the 18th and 19th centuries, there were a series of 'Opium Wars' fought by the British in the latter part of the 19th century to eliminate the Chinese protesters (if I can use that term) who were concerned about the harm this business enterprise was causing the Chinese people.
And of course Britannia won each time.

So, they already had a plant and were using it....but the Brits are to blame because they bought and traded it?

[wombat666]

So, they already had a plant and were using it....but the Brits are to blame because they bought and traded it?

Read again please.
I looked up some of the details.

The Opium was grown in INDIA, at the time under British Rule and in reality governed by the EAST INDIA TRADING COMPANY.
India was known as the 'Jewel in the Crown of the Empire'.
In bald terms, the East India Company introduced Opium to China and made vast profits as a result.

Quote:In the eighteenth century, Britain had a huge trade deficit with Qing Dynasty China and so in 1773, the Company created a British monopoly on opium buying in Bengal. As opium trade was illegal in China, Company ships could not carry opium to China. So the opium produced in Bengal was sold in Calcutta on condition that it be sent to China.
Despite the Chinese ban on opium imports, reaffirmed in 1799, it was smuggled into China from Bengal by traffickers and agency houses (such as Jardine, Matheson and Company, Ltd.) averaging 900 tons a year. The proceeds from drug-runners at Lintin Island were paid into the Company’s factory at Canton and by 1825, most of the money needed to buy tea in China was raised by the illegal opium trade. In 1838, with opium smuggling approaching 1400 tons a year, the Chinese imposed a death penalty on opium smuggling and sent a new governor, Lin Zexu to curb smuggling. This finally resulted in the First Opium War, eventually leading to the British seizure of Hong Kong.:Unquote
I doubt if you know of Major-General Charles George Gordon, aka Chinese Gordon, Gordon Pasha, and Gordon of Khartoum, who put down the Chinese in no uncertain manner during the Second Opium War.
As an aside, while the 'Company' remained the largest importer of Opium to China, the United States of America, post the 'War Between The States', followed close behind.

Not exactly a glorious piece of history and proof that money rules, then as now.

[Roadburner440]

That was a funny video tig, :icon_lol:. I am unsure of the total history of drugs.A lot of the things we consider illegal drugs today were a part of medicine, or other rituals in many other cultures around the world. It is just a very complex problem with no easy solutions. To get rid of it you would have to destroy the profitability of it. The military doesn't by any means make money from doing anything. We just spend money. At some point that money will either be exhausted, or have to be increased. While these people make money on running drugs. I am unsure what it would take to break the profitability. Seeing as the cocaine comes from natural plants, and most of the labor used to make and traffic it is very low pay, or practically slave labor. I would say that is a pretty hefty task. I just wish that the gov would release the handcuffs from us, let us load up some torpedo's, and any of these submersible things we spot just take care of it then and there.... I can understand not doing that to the fishing boats, because they could be out there legitimately fishing. The submersibles though I do not think any are commercially made (although I have seen some people looking to make them for personal use like exploring reefs, etc), but you can pretty much assume what they are doing out there. Then just drop the torp on 'em and call it a day. This is why I am just a maintainer of aircraft, and not a decision maker tho, lol. I am sure working on the B-1B's you have probably said the same thing tho about some of your missions. At least the B-1B's have actually put bombs on target though.. can't count how many time I have loaded missles and other ordnance only to download it all again later. In fact I don't think an SH-60B has ever fired a missle/torpedo in war.. we just use the guns.

[Ken Stallings]

Read again please.
I looked up some of the details.

The Opium was grown in INDIA, at the time under British Rule and in reality governed by the EAST INDIA TRADING COMPANY.
India was known as the 'Jewel in the Crown of the Empire'.
In bald terms, the East India Company introduced Opium to China and made vast profits as a result.

Quote:In the eighteenth century, Britain had a huge trade deficit with Qing Dynasty China and so in 1773, the Company created a British monopoly on opium buying in Bengal. As opium trade was illegal in China, Company ships could not carry opium to China. So the opium produced in Bengal was sold in Calcutta on condition that it be sent to China.
Despite the Chinese ban on opium imports, reaffirmed in 1799, it was smuggled into China from Bengal by traffickers and agency houses (such as Jardine, Matheson and Company, Ltd.) averaging 900 tons a year. The proceeds from drug-runners at Lintin Island were paid into the Company’s factory at Canton and by 1825, most of the money needed to buy tea in China was raised by the illegal opium trade. In 1838, with opium smuggling approaching 1400 tons a year, the Chinese imposed a death penalty on opium smuggling and sent a new governor, Lin Zexu to curb smuggling. This finally resulted in the First Opium War, eventually leading to the British seizure of Hong Kong.:Unquote
I doubt if you know of Major-General Charles George Gordon, aka Chinese Gordon, Gordon Pasha, and Gordon of Khartoum, who put down the Chinese in no uncertain manner during the Second Opium War.
As an aside, while the 'Company' remained the largest importer of Opium to China, the United States of America, post the 'War Between The States', followed close behind.

Not exactly a glorious piece of history and proof that money rules, then as now.

Nope, among the sadder and more sinister chapters in history frankly. It would be like us rightly trying to eradicate drug use killing our people, and some other nation fighting a war so they can force us to endure drug addicts.

I don't think we'd take too kindly to such an effort!

Ken