Vampire

[peter12213]

Suprunov Design Vampire with the Freeware VC installed!

This is my first attempt at editing a shot with photobucket so bare with me lol, Hope you like it!

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae166/Peter12213/2010-5-6_22-5-41-609-1.jpg

[SirBenn21]

:salute: Looks good

[peter12213]

Thanks bud! First time photoshop lol normally I just post from in game as it were!

[delta_lima]

Say Peter,

Please do tell about this model. I had never even heard about it! Their site says this:

http://www.suprunovdesign.com/index.php/products/de-havilland-vampire-fb-5-9/

But how is it to fly? FPS hit? Flight model? Where to get the VC?

It look gorgeous, but somehow sceptical, for some reason.

Many thanks,

[flaviossa]

Peter, nice screen, nice plane! :salute:
Can you give us directions to use the free vc in this model? It´s just a ctrl+c ctrl+v or you have to edit something (Besides the vc entry in the aircraft.cfg of course)?

Thanks!

[peter12213]

Hi guys just saw this post sorry, I will post all the directions, this is a payware model but I added a freeware VC to it, as said I will post a "how too" or if I don't tomorrrow then I will PM you both!

Both FPS, Flight model are spot on, really nice I added the Rob Richardson VC from his freeware version! As can be seen this was May last year but I still have the knowledge on how to do it!

[Rich]

"I added the Rob Richardson VC from his freeware version! As can be seen this was May last year but I still have the knowledge on how to do it!"

Piracy in reverse ? adding a freeware VC

[flaviossa]

Thanks Peter! I didn´t see the date of your post, sorry!!! I thought it was posted yesterday!! :jump:
But if you have the procedure to do this, i´m very interested.

Thanks!

[peter12213]

"I added the Rob Richardson VC from his freeware version! As can be seen this was May last year but I still have the knowledge on how to do it!"

Piracy in reverse ? adding a freeware VC

How in anyway could this be contrived as piracy I have not in anyway made anyfiles available or done anything that would go against either SDesigns or Robs wishes or copyrights, this was done as no VC is yet available for this particular model?

[Rich]

Because you use another persons work which is freeware to put a vc in a payware model that does not have one.

I just installed Rob's VC into his AI version, it took about 10 minutes but I am not about to say how, the fact that you will not be uploading his files merely telling people how to do it is still piracy.

Get on to the sellers to get a vc done as you have bought it knowing there is no vc.

Rob has produced good models with hard work for free why not use his Vampire complete.

[flaviossa]

If i have a pay addon and put it´s VC in a freeware model, it´s piracy too?

[peter12213]

I do use Robs Vampire and think it's great but the SDesign one is also great and showing someone how to modify there own models is not piracy I'm merely explaining how to do it and after that it's your own choice whether you want to try it or not!

[peter12213]

If i have a pay addon and put it´s VC in a freeware model, it´s piracy too?

In my opinion no it's not piracy as long as it's for you alone and not uploaded or sent somewhere that it shouldn't!

[flaviossa]

I do use Robs Vampire and think it's great but the SDesign one is also great and showing someone how to modify there own models is not piracy I'm merely explaining how to do it and after that it's your own choice whether you want to try it or not!

Agreed. If there isn´t a explict statement in the readme file that comes with the airplane saying about this, i can´t see the problem. You have both the planes in a proper way, if you mix then ... what´s the matter? It´s just point of view ...

[delta_lima]

My apologies if I stirred a pot. In my question "how to get the VC" - it was my understanding that it was available as a later component from the actual model, in a separate download - all from Suprunov - freeware, in the sense that he wasn't going to charge for the VC if you had already bought the model. That was my understanding - I was asking to confirm if that was the case.

dl

[Rich]

DL, there is no need now for the payware vendors to supply a VC which as I understand takes the most time to do for a modeler to do, all they need to supply is instructions of how to filch a freeware version.

As far as I could see Suprunov is unlikely to release their own vc.

For me it is a matter of principle.

[peter12213]

My apologies if I stirred a pot. In my question "how to get the VC" - it was my understanding that it was available as a later component from the actual model, in a separate download - all from Suprunov - freeware, in the sense that he wasn't going to charge for the VC if you had already bought the model. That was my understanding - I was asking to confirm if that was the case.

dl

Yeah I understand that one is in development however it has not been released as of yet!

[wombat666]

To quote a very wise man:

"You buy it, it's yours. As long as you don't distribute any part of it, modified or not, you have the right to any dang thing you want. You can even print out all the one's and zero's onto a ream of paper and make origami if that's what trips your trigger."

The same goes for free-ware, if you mod it for your OWN USE and do not distribute or disseminate your mod then it is NOT piracy.

Now play nice children.
:173go1:

[SADT]

To quote a very wise man:

"You buy it, it's yours. As long as you don't distribute any part of it, modified or not, you have the right to any dang thing you want. You can even print out all the one's and zero's onto a ream of paper and make origami if that's what trips your trigger."

The same goes for free-ware, if you mod it for your OWN USE and do not distribute or disseminate your mod then it is NOT piracy.

Now play nice children.
:173go1:

Wombat, just asking, if I were to give the A2A Spitfire a tailhook, to that one could land on a period carrier, would I be allowed to share my tailhook settings with other on this forum? :salute:

[wombat666]

Personally, I can't see why not.
I believe there is a huge difference between sharing your own work on a private basis and 'Piracy'.
It would be (IMHO) best shared via PM.
I will see if I can clarify the situation with the older and wiser Admins, but it might be best to avoid going 'public' for the moment.
:kilroy:

Please note, this is my own personal opinion.

[gigabyte]

OK folks, let me put a little Canuck legal spin on this topic (keep in mind this is the opinion of a practicing Lawyer in Canada so it may or may not be the same elseware).

My wife works for a law firm and I posed this situation to the Senior Partner who is a Commercial Law specialist.

There is no specific case law that fits this precicely, however there is long standing case law on modifying physical devices and equipment. Basically when any person buys a product and takes possession they own that "Unit" of the product, they do NOT own the design or any specific rights to modify the design. It is accepted that any person is free to make any modifications they wish to their own property and the indivdual is fully responsible for the result, however modifying a product completely voids any original stated performance specifications, warranty, and absolves the original manufacturer of all responisbility to the user. In terms of distribution of material and instructions to modify a commercial "Trade Marked or Copyrighted" product it is NOT permitted to publically promote or commercially distribute material and or instructions to materially change any product protected by Copyright without licence or expressed permission of the copyright holder.

So bottom line my legal beagle tells me a members only forum, is not legally considered "Public", however if people can read the instructions with out joining the "distribution" would be considered PUBLIC, therefore although it is a minor point posting such instructions here would violate Canadian Copyright law, passing those same instructions via a personal eMail (or even PM) would not be a violation.

[Ferry_vO]

Piracy in reverse ? adding a freeware VC

So by your logic using gauges, panels or sounds from another aircraft is piracy too?

I have bought the Captain Sim 727-100/200 but not the freighters, so if I download the freeware 727F from Thomas Ruth but decide to add the Captain Sim VC instead of the one that Thomas did simply because I like it better, I'm a pirate?

Unless someone decides to merge two packages and uploads the entire aircraft, it's not piracy in my book! If it's solely for private use I really don't see the problem.

[flaviossa]

So by your logic using gauges, panels or sounds from another aircraft is piracy too?

I have bought the Captain Sim 727-100/200 but not the freighters, so if I download the freeware 727F from Thomas Ruth but decide to add the Captain Sim VC instead of the one that Thomas did simply because I like it better, I'm a pirate?

Unless someone decides to merge two packages and uploads the entire aircraft, it's not piracy in my book! If it's solely for private use I really don't see the problem.

That´s exactly my point!!!! You have both aircrafts, you bought them!! What the problem in merge them? And what´s the problem in saying what to do to merge them to other person that has this arcrafts too in a proper way? You cant post files from the aircrafts, of course, but the method used to merge them???? What´s the problem?

[Dangerousdave26]

Wombat, just asking, if I were to give the A2A Spitfire a tailhook, to that one could land on a period carrier, would I be allowed to share my tailhook settings with other on this forum? :salute:

This goes off topic but yes you could no you could not. Its necessary to understand there are two tail hooks. One is functional and only resides in the aircraft.cfg file and the other is visual and resides in the mdl file.

The functional tail hook can not be copyrighted as it is copy written by MS and freely the rights are given to us to modify.

[Tailhook] //MS section tag that no one can claim ownership of

tailhook_length = 4.5000 // Property defining [Tailhook] section. The length is data and can be changed at will. While someone might think they can copyright the length it would be very hard to prove that the length used is did not come from parallel development.

tailhook_position = -4.00, 0.00, -1.00 //Property defining [Tailhook] section. The position is data and follows the same rules above.

That is the tail hook section from an aircraft.cfg file. This you could share as no one can copyright it. You probably do not want to use this one as I arbitrarily assigned the data and it may or may not work on a carrier.

The visual tail hook is another matter. In order to add one to the A2A Spitfire you would have to reverse engineer the mdl into source material and then insert a tail hook and recompile.

That would be against your EULA with A2A. You could not share that work here with out getting banned as you would distributing Pirated software.

Which brings us to this other matter.

Software Piracy = Obtaining digital content by stealing it from the owners of the software. By the nature of things this would be content that you do not already have.

Piracy in reverse = Would that not be Giving digital content that you own to others? Which I don't think can even be a crime if it is something they want.

So far the MS Flight Simulator has been an Open Architecture Game specifically so that users may modify its contents for their own use at will.

That is all Pete has done and Rich you are way off base.

You can have your opinion but if you stand by that one you better have never modified one file in your installation of FS.

[Dangerousdave26]

That´s exactly my point!!!! You have both aircrafts, you bought them!! What the problem in merge them? And what´s the problem in saying what to do to merge them to other person that has this arcrafts too in a proper way? You cant post files from the aircrafts, of course, but the method used to merge them???? What´s the problem?

Personally depending on content I don't see a reason why one could not create a "How to" for the subject. There might be a problem if the "How to" contains instructions on how to reverse engineer something that is copy written. That should be fairly obviously wrong and Pete would know that or he would not suggest creating the "How to"

So I say post away the details.

Really I don't know why some people don't write up these "how to" documents and publish them in PDF format and upload them to the library. Complete with detailed screen shots of course.

[gigabyte]

So by your logic using gauges, panels or sounds from another aircraft is piracy too?

I have bought the Captain Sim 727-100/200 but not the freighters, so if I download the freeware 727F from Thomas Ruth but decide to add the Captain Sim VC instead of the one that Thomas did simply because I like it better, I'm a pirate?

Unless someone decides to merge two packages and uploads the entire aircraft, it's not piracy in my book! If it's solely for private use I really don't see the problem.

SPOT ON, I probably did not do a great job translating the legal mumbo jumbo (does anyone except Lawyers understand that anyway) the bottom line is making modifications to anything you own, is legal, taking parts and or pieces from one product and using them on another is perfectly legal providing you own both - and when you download a freeware model you own the "unit" that is stored on your computer but not the design or work of the author. The only issue would be in public distribution of the resulting modified "unit" or the material and instructions. So as long as someone does not take a VC as a part and distribute it along with the instructions on how to install it in other models and do that publically No Issue.

[fsafranek]

Providing instructions for this Vampire exterior/interior merge is no different than posting instructions on how to change the afterburner effect on the Alphasim Phantoms using effects from other payware releases or some freeware release as was done years ago in their forum. Or how to add in Eric Marciano's radar screen to the Alphasim Lightnings years ago in this very forum. As was stated above it is this open architecture that has made FS the long lasting franchise that it is/was. Just my opinion but nothing like the availability of an SDK by the manufacturer (and used by all follow-on developers) says "yes, we encourage experimentation and sharing of information".
:ernae:

[Willy]

Bottomline. If you're going publish a mod to someone else's work, payware or freeware, get their permission before publishing. I've published mods to both free and payware, but always with permission of the original author. Just ask. The worst that can happen is that they say no.

[paulb]

Blimey! :icon_eek:

I started reading this thread and it suddenly went 'all legal'!

Good grief, there are lots of pirates out there - getting away with real piracy - and no-one seems to be able to stop them. Far too often when I want to see a review on an aircraft that I want to buy, I have to bypass zillions of 'torrent' sites offering a commercial product for free. Thank goodness I dont even understand what 'torrent' means!

Peter simply seemed to be offering to show how he had linked a freeware vc to a payware aircraft mdl. Not a big deal IMHO and certainly not piracy. Piracy would involve the distribution of something. Having said that, I agree 100% with Willy that it is 'good form' and simply polite to ask the developer first.

[peter12213]

Well exactly mate! How do you think I felt Paul lol! I'm a member of the SD design Forum but have not been able to assertain an answer from ROB but to be honest there both excellent models and a VC is on the way for the SD Vampire as is one for the future MS Flight if Igor can accertain enough info from microsoft that is!!! So this is definately just an interim modification and I'm sorry if I've upset anyone, but quite clearly there is alot of interest in this Mod, and I will PM instructions to those who want to know how to do it, so I don't upset anyone by posting it! (And as Said it's at your own risk to your own property!)

[Prowler1111]

1st i would like to say i´ve never, ever before heard about this product, it looks awesome..does it fires the ordnance? there is a video doing so, so i would like some light from one of the owners.
2nd, no VC? what a shame on what looks like the ultimate rendition of this aircraft
and 3rd, i´m a payware developer, my take on piracy is, as long as it does not includes core data (mdl´s .air) it´s a customer enhancement, and in this particular case, if there is no vc, it deserves a VC.
Best regards
Prowler

[peter12213]

Well Prowler I'm sorry I cannot think of your name but I know you from the Mirage 2000-5 days that you views are 100% correct thanks for bothering to look in on this very old thread! I can say yes the ordinance is droppable but not like yours or the new captainsim packs, though no doubt somone can make that work, bombs will fall from the wings and rockets and thats about it, there are no after effects and to be honest Igor was one of the first to do this kind of addition, he is a real A320 and several other jets pilot and does this for his love of classic aircraft as we all do, I cannot reccoment this aircraft enought he has said for over a year that the VC will be released and while he has not released a VC he keeps releasing more and more vampire models I mean his first pack was the FB9 and now were up to the very earliest versions and all free updates, he regularly posts on his formum and the VC is coming along nicely by all acounts so if you have not bought this model then please do, Rob's is great and I love it as is Alphasims/Virtiavia's but this is the Vampire to have if you love this classic Jet!