What would you do? A dealership damaged my car.

[tigisfat]

I dropped off my 2004 Cobra at a Ford dealership in Newark, CA a few weeks ago to have an evap system code worked. It took them three weeks to work it. When I went to pick the car up, the windshield was cracked (freshly, because there were still bits of glass on it), one of my aftermarket multifunction digital gauges didn't work, there were wires hanging below the dash as well as external damage where other objects had scratched or dinged it. Someone had engraved 'cobra' into my keys as well.

I was told when I picked it up that I was going to have to take it up with the service manager. I called him, and he never got back to me. Finally I called the owner of the dealership. He told me he'd call me right back, and he didn't. Two days later, he calls me and offers to replace the windshield. I told him that they needed to cover all the damage they did. He offered up weak explanations, saying that they didn't have an engraving tool, noone worked under the dash, and he didn't address the other physical damage.

Any dremel or rotary tool could've done the stupid engraving on my keys. It was pretty shoddy. I wouldn't write 'Cobra' on my keys because I have two cobras. There's no need to differentiate.

Noone worked under the dash? They were working a computer code. That's how you pull them.

This guy was a jerk too. He kept interrupting me and saying that he refused to have a conversation with me about the damage, and that he didn't care. That was his offer, "take it or leave it". I told him that I was "sorry he was closing the door on our talks, and that I was even more sorry things didn't work out amicably" and then I told him how much I "hate litigation". He immediately started yelling at me over the phone. "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM!! YOU'RE GOING TO THREATEN ME WITH LITIGATION?! BRING IT ON!!"

This whole situation is just disgusting. Alright SOH, what would you do? Insurance claim? lawyer? It's more along the lines of small claims court, unfortunately.


pic related, this is the car:

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt32/walkeramerican/2004%20Mystichrome%20Cobra/frontquarteringleftfull.jpg

[euroastar350]

Lawsuit is what I would do. Thats a dam shame that they to go to the extremes just to cover their a**es:isadizzy:

[tigisfat]

Lawsuit is what I would do. Thats a dam shame that they to go to the extremes just to cover their a**es:isadizzy:

The gross part is that it's never that simple. We're talking about a few thousand worth of damage, and maybe 5-6,000 to have everything fixed show-ready like the car was. The small claims limit is 7,500 dollars. A good lawyer will want a 10,000 dollar retainer.

Three months ago a company refused to pay mine, and the litigation was painstaking and brutal. We had 100% proof from beginning to end, and there was never a doubt we'd get paid, but it still sucked the life out of everything for a while.

[robcap]

In Holland it would be an insurance claim: let the 2 insurance companies do the fighting.
Nice car you have there, too bad they damaged it. Seems like someone took it for a spin while it was under their care.

R.

[Lionheart]

This happened with my brother. Took his BMW V-12 750i into the local Scottsdale dealership for a checkout. Thats it.

Later in the day, he gets a call. 'We need you to come down'. He figures he's picking up his car. Nope... A kid was playing around in a 2 seat convertable Bimmer and rammed his car at good speed in the back lot. Brothers car is a rare thing, owned by a guy from Iran, (of all places). Bullet proof glass, double plated door skins, etc, etc... They say they will have it all repaired. No worries.. He goes home. 45 to 60 days later and many phone calls (parts were hard to get) they call him. 'Sir, you can pick up your BMW now'. He goes down there. Still damaged parts on the front, like a chrome side bumper trim piece, hanging, scuffed. He complains, very angry. No car for 2 months..

They through him off the lot, told him he couldnt come back, threatened lawsuits, etc, etc... He calls London, in charge of US Dealerships, lodges a complaint.. Months go by. Basically, he lost. They messed him up royal, and ripped him off. Dont deal with Brocks. Bottom line.


Bill

[luckydog]

legalmatch.com

[wombat666]

Save yourself the time, money and ultimate frustration, get it fixed yourself and do not take it near ANY dealership again.
EVER!!!
Find a specialist.
:173go1:
And buy a Porsche!

[Moparmike]

First off I would start with contacting your local BBB. Start here http://www.bbb.org/ to find your state office.
Next I would file a claim with your insurance company giving the details...they'll be in touch with the dealership and their insurance provider.
Grab your camera and document the damages...if you've got pre-damage shots to compare em with that will help too.

If your insurance and/or the BBB deems legal action is necessary, then work with them to get legal stuff underway. Court if needed, but usually getting the BBB on the case will get things squared away.

Been there, done that, with my folks' '78 F150 back in 94. I dropped it off to get the windshield replaced after my shop fire. When I went to pick it up, it had an extra 90 miles on it and the rear tires had a bit less tread and the missing rubber was plastered to the wheelwells (This is a 2wd 460 truck that had only 45,000 on the odo at the time...it's one of my babies just like my '48 F-6 and I don't hotrod on it).
I didn't have photo proof, but I was using it as my shop vehicle at the time so I had a mileage log. At first the dealer tried to deny it, but when I whipped out my logbook and mentioned the BBB they got their act together pretty quicklike.
The kid in the body shop that "borrowed" it lost his job, I got a new set of tires, and the Ford dealership got a black mark on their record over the deal, and they lost a regular customer.

[NoNewMessages]

This whole situation is just disgusting. Alright SOH, what would you do? Insurance claim? lawyer? It's more along the lines of small claims court, unfortunately.

If you carry comprehensive coverage on your automobile policy and this vehicle, then I would see about filing a claim with your carrier. Deductible comes into play, but the carrier *should* then use their subrogation option to go back against the dealership and the dealership's insurance carrier. If your company is successful in subrogation they should also get the amount back for the deductible.

Disclaimer: It's been a while since I was in the personal lines property and casualty field, but that's what the advice would have been "back then".

[Quixoticish]

I'm not sure how the laws work in the US but is your car not insured? If it is then it should just be a simple case of phoning your insurance company and letting them deal with the hassle and legal fees?

[kilo delta]

You've no option really, you'll have to go down the legal route or cut your losses and fix the car yourself. I'm with wombat...I'll NEVER,EVER use a dealership to work on my cars. I've always carried out most maintenance on my motors myself using OEM parts bought off the internet. I have a dedicated notebook and cables for clearing codes and diagnostics. Any jobs that I'm not comfortable doing myself, or requiring equipment that I don't have I'll entrust to a local specialist.
Nice car,btw.

[Brian_Gladden]

As a former Ford Dealer employee, I'm appalled. If anyone had done that at the dealership I worked at, the boss would have fired them on the spot.

Another avenue besides the BBB is Ford itself. The Regional Manager can put pressure that even a lawyer cannot (Like possibly pulling the franchise) Also I would look for another Ford dealer to do the warranty work on your car.

And three weeks to pull a code and then fix the problem?!?!?!

Give me a break. That's a one day job to pull the codes. Even if they needed to order parts, you can get nearly every part in the entire catalog overnight. Even if Ford itself doesn't have it. I know that because I worked in the Parts Department.

If another dealer doesn't have it locally, you can have it Fed-EX'd from the regional Ford Warehouse or from another dealership further away. (We used to get stuff overnight from Fred Jones Ford in Tulsa because they had more stuff in stock than the Ford warehouse in NJ did...)

There is simply no excuse to do what they did on a used POS Escort, let alone a sweet ride like a Cobra.

Let em' have it with both barrels! Dealers like that give the rest a bad rep. I'm sure that you are not the first one to been treated like this.



Brian

[Cratermaker]

I was going to bring up something Moparmike mentioned:

Any idea how many miles were put on it while it was in their hands?

[cheezyflier]

i had a dealer damage my trans am years ago. i had to do a little bitching but they did do the repairs. funny thing was, as an apology they offered me 25% off my next service. as if i'd ever go back there again.

thing is, you never really know who you're dealing with. there was a service station once, who worked on this guy's 78 cougar XR-7. he told them the engine would stall when he would hit a bump or turn a corner. they told him he needed a new steering column because the bushings couldn't be replaced. so they did the work, and he paid them. a block from the garage the car stalled when he tried to turn into his neighborhood. when they refused to fix the problem they charged him for, the guy got angry because he couldn't afford a lawyer to do things the right way. so he went back that night and threw a cinder block through the service bay window, followed by a molotov cocktail.

[Moparmike]

As a former Ford Dealer employee, I'm appalled. If anyone had done that at the dealership I worked at, the boss would have fired them on the spot.

Another avenue besides the BBB is Ford itself. The Regional Manager can put pressure that even a lawyer cannot (Like possibly pulling the franchise) Also I would look for another Ford dealer to do the warranty work on your car.

And three weeks to pull a code and then fix the problem?!?!?!

Give me a break. That's a one day job to pull the codes. Even if they needed to order parts, you can get nearly every part in the entire catalog overnight. Even if Ford itself doesn't have it. I know that because I worked in the Parts Department.

If another dealer doesn't have it locally, you can have it Fed-EX'd from the regional Ford Warehouse or from another dealership further away. (We used to get stuff overnight from Fred Jones Ford in Tulsa because they had more stuff in stock than the Ford warehouse in NJ did...)

There is simply no excuse to do what they did on a used POS Escort, let alone a sweet ride like a Cobra.

Let em' have it with both barrels! Dealers like that give the rest a bad rep. I'm sure that you are not the first one to been treated like this.



Brian


I agree with you about contacting the regional office too Brian...I know Ford used to be very particular about their dealership franchises. I can't speak for any other marques since we've never bought any other brand brand-new.

[GT182]

Back before we moved to DE we had somewhat the same problem at a Ford dealer in Malone, NY.

Took the wife's 2000 Focus in to get a leak in the windshield fixed. Bought the car thru them and it was still under the warranty. They fixed the leak but cracked the windshield.

Day aafter I picked it up from the dealer I noticed it. Called our Insurance company and they said take it to an autoglass shop of my choice, which I did. I call and they ordered a new tinted windshield for it.... car has airconditioning. Windhield came in and the young lad that was going to install it asked what hapapened. Told him and he said it was the dealer's fault. The trim was improperly taken off and the guy craked the windshield. We both went to the dealer and they denied it. So the young lad with me spoke up and TOLD them what happened. They still denied it until I got inthe shop manger's face, called him ahd the mechanic liars and threatened to get a lawyer and sue their a$$es after eh went in a talked to the owner. Told him the same agan... botht the young lad and I, and his boss at the glass shop. After 2 hours of arguing, with us making them tell more lies the dealership gave in and replaced it. But... with a plain untinted windshield. Cheapskates to the nines. Afterwards I spead this around the North Country. With mine and others having major problems with this dealship, Ford took it away from them..... for cheating and lying to their customers.

So Bill, tell your brother to stick with it and go after them for ALL the repairs for ALL the damages they caused. Call Ford and a lawyer too. He will win in the end.

[Willy]

I'd call the zone office. I worked at a small GMC Truck dealer for a few months that would do similar stuff. They were supposed to send their shop people out for certified GM training but they never did and getting anything fixed in that shop was hit or miss. After I'd been there a couple of months I got a better offer, packed up my tools and moved on. It's hard to do a good job for the customers when your boss won't let you.

Burch GMC had been a GMC dealer since right after WW I. I worked there in 1980. Within a couple of years after I left, GMC had enough of them and pulled the dealership out from under them and gave it to the local Olds dealer.

[TeaSea]

Yep, Get hold of Ford....

Also contact the BBB, and let Ford know you're doing it.

I'd do that before I'd go the lawsuit route. Lawsuit takes time, costs money, and anything can happen.

[Ken Stallings]

Write a letter to the state Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division. Outline all that happened in a very factual manner and if you have any photographic evidence (before and after) add that to the letter, and solicit statements from people who know the car and who can verify this damage was caused at the dealership.

I suspect the AG office will contact the dealership and advise them a consumer complaint was initiated against them. That is an attention getting step.

If that doesn't cause the dealership to do the right thing, then take them to court.

Ken

[tigisfat]

I doubt these guys will own up under any pressure. Noone cares about the BBB or complaining customers anymore. Since I've been in business management, I've not seen a single gentlemanly transaction, dealing or proceeding outside of the recreational fraternal organizations I frequent.

People's true colors really show up when the economy's bad, and that's no BS. To protect the company I worked for until very recently, we had to make it a standard practice to immediately file 20 day notices of lein. Four years ago, you'd have had a VERY angry phone call as soon as the lein was filed from an insulted COO.

[hey_moe]

What a pain to have to deal with something like this. If they are a member of the BBB they signed documents that they would come up with a fix for the problem. If the dealership refuse to do anything it is just a bad mark againt them. I use the dealership all the time here.By the time the warranty expires I am ready to get rid of it anyway. The first thing I do when I take a car in is ask for the service manager. I take him to the car and show him there isn't one scratch,mark or door ding on the outside of the car. I then open the car and let him view it. I then tell him that is how I want it returned.

[Moparmike]

I doubt these guys will own up under any pressure. Noone cares about the BBB or complaining customers anymore. Since I've been in business management, I've not seen a single gentlemanly transaction, dealing or proceeding outside of the recreational fraternal organizations I frequent.

People's true colors really show up when the economy's bad, and that's no BS. To protect the company I worked for until very recently, we had to make it a standard practice to immediately file 20 day notices of lein. Four years ago, you'd have had a VERY angry phone call as soon as the lein was filed from an insulted COO.

They won't have to fess up and make things right if you don't pursue the problem. The BBB (and Ken's suggestion of your state's Attorney General office) carry more weight that you think with retailers. Yes they do still set things right if you are persistent about it.

Ford's home office isn't really wild about getting complaints about their dealers either. They WILL light a fire under the local owner/manager or they'll pull their franchise.


What a pain to have to deal with something like this. If they are a member of the BBB they signed documents that they would come up with a fix for the problem. If the dealership refuse to do anything it is just a bad mark againt them. I use the dealership all the time here.By the time the warranty expires I am ready to get rid of it anyway. The first thing I do when I take a car in is ask for the service manager. I take him to the car and show him there isn't one scratch,mark or door ding on the outside of the car. I then open the car and let him view it. I then tell him that is how I want it returned.

Same here Moe. After my F150 fiasco I'm very cautious about taking something in to get worked on, whether at a dealer or an independent shop. And if the service manager happens to notice that you snap a few pictures of your ride when you drop it off (even with a cellphone cam) they'll likely put a little extra effort into ensuring that everything is okay when you come to pick it up.
And if any parts are replaced, yes I want to see the old ones when I pick up my wheels.
(I do most of my own maintenance...but there are times when I don't have the tools or the time to do it myself. At $80/hr I sure try to make time though!!!)

[Snuffy]

burn the place down!

just a suggestion ... :bump:

[AckAck]

burn the place down!

just a suggestion ... :bump:

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Brian :bump:

[tigisfat]

It's all too easy to mention lawsuits. I've been here before, guys. Simply preparing this lawsuit and not taking it to court can EASILY top 10,000 dollars, for you uninitiated.

[b52bob]

I may be wrong, but in California when I went to small claims court, lawyers were forbidden. It was you, the guy you're suing, and the judge. No need to pay the blood suckers

[Snuffy]

Sounds like Judge Judy time! :wiggle:

[hey_moe]

Well to be honest with you by the time you hire a lawyer, miss time from work and the lawyer takes his piece of the pie you are just about left with nothing.In Hampton we have a TV station called ten on your side that will take the case go down to the dealership and expose them to the public what they did. Which ain't to good for a dealership in this day and time. The results from this kind of TV viewing is almost 100%, good for the customer and bad for the company. For what little bit of damage you are talking about, I don't understand why the dealership doesn't take care of it. For what it would cost them it's really nothing other than the cost of the windshield which they get at wholesale anyway.

[wombat666]

Well to be honest with you by the time you hire a lawyer, miss time from work and the lawyer takes his piece of the pie you are just about left with nothing.In Hampton we have a TV station called ten on your side that will take the case go down to the dealership and expose them to the public what they did. Which ain't to good for a dealership in this day and time. The results from this kind of TV viewing is almost 100%, good for the customer and bad for the company. For what little bit of damage you are talking about, I don't understand why the dealership doesn't take care of it. For what it would cost them it's really nothing other than the cost of the windshield which they get at wholesale anyway.

The main problem from where I view this is simple.
If the Dealership admits liability they probably fear further action.
No offence intended but America is not known as "The Land of Litigation" for nothing.
:monkies:

[jmig]

Too bad it isn't the 1060's and you aren't in San Antonio, TX. :)

When I was just a young shavetail Lt. I remember a story that SMSgt from Lackland AFB told me. Evidently, there was an auto dealership in SA who keep taking advantage of young soldiers and airmen. Some General took it upon himself to call the local base and fort commanders. They put the dealership off limits to the military. Within six months the dealership was ou tof business.



Disclaimer: the above story was related to me third party at a time when I accepted just about anything from a Sr. NCO as God's truth. SO, the story may be true or it may be allegorical, or it may have been outright fiction. Caveat lector.

[GT182]

There ya go Tig....

Confront the Dealership... stand your ground but keep it civil, only make legal threats you can carry out. Make no physical threats. And have a witness with you... that is important.

Call Ford's main office and complaint line. But make sure the dealership is still connecred with Ford. Some only have the sign up and only use he Ford name thru another dealer. Yes it is and can be done that way by shysters.

Make a claim with the BBB and Attorney General's office

TV if possible

Small Claims Court

And last but not least... get an Attorney. Usually an initial consultation is free. You can sue for Attorney's fees too in some states, depending on the lawsuit. Might also be worth talking to one before taking Small Claims Court action. A good lawyer will guide you on what to do, and ususally won't charge you..... they know you could be back and really need them.

[Willy]

Too bad it isn't the 1060's and you aren't in San Antonio, TX. :)

When I was just a young shavetail Lt. I remember a story that SMSgt from Lackland AFB told me. Evidently, there was an auto dealership in SA who keep taking advantage of young soldiers and airmen. Some General took it upon himself to call the local base and fort commanders. They put the dealership off limits to the military. Within six months the dealership was ou tof business.



Disclaimer: the above story was related to me third party at a time when I accepted just about anything from a Sr. NCO as God's truth. SO, the story may be true or it may be allegorical, or it may have been outright fiction. Caveat lector.


I've seen it happen around Navy bases to used car dealers that preyed on service members. Putting a business off limits didn't always solve the problem either. When I was a Division Chief, it amazed me when young sailors would go to a known off limits business and then come back to the ship complaining of getting ripped off. I had one guy that did it twice with the same car dealer. He wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with.

[Roadburner440]

I hate that stuff like this has to happen.. but this is why when I drop my car off I do a video walkaround with my Kodak Camera, and a service person.. Then when I pick the vehicle up before I sign any paperwork I do another video walk around/document mileage/etc. The Dodge dealer that I take my SRT-8 to now hasn't done anything to the car, but Jack Caruso Dodge (now closed thank god) I have caught them doing burnouts in the back lot, and reving the crap out of my engine in their garage.... Their managers reply to my accusations was "prove it".. which is why now I sit at the dealership till I get my car back, or if it has to stay for an extended period (like the transmission leak it just had) I document everything from tire tread depth, fluid levels, photographs/video, etc... Cause you will not win in court if you cannot prove the condition of the car the day before you drop it off. Other than that it is just he said/she said to them.