FSD JETSTAR NO MORE?

[expat]

Very disappointed to read this by Steve over at FSD's forums but not surprised as it has been stalled for so long the work has become dated.


The Jetstar was started about 6 years ago using obsolete design software. It falls into the same category as the others I'm afraid. It would have been fine for Fs2004 if it was released about 4 or 5 years ago as was intended but it was never given the priority it should have been and was not designed as a solid mesh project. It's chunky lines and the absence of round curved surfaces on it simply would not pass scrutiny and would not meet customer expectations, I'm afraid.

Oddly, it still is listed in their work in progress page, but I think this is now a dead duck.

I am probably in a minority here but I would really like to see more quality, including payware, FSX business jets - particularly long rangers - but am also aware IP legal issues hamper getting, e.g., a G5 or Falcon 7x. Shame someone else doesn't have a go at a Jetstar - the original and most classic business jet of them all.

expat

[falcon409]

That announcement is kinda anticlimactic really, most of us knew it was never going to see the light of day, much like the MU-2 which has been "on the drawing board" for years as well.:salute:

[skyhawka4m]

wow...this sucks. I was dying for that Jetstar.......too bad cause I actually thought it looked rather nice. The MU-2 is another on I was hoping for also. bummer.......

[MaddogK]

Yup, totally disappointing. If I could lay my hands on that mesh...

O' well, maybe I can convert it if it ever comes out for FSX.

[falcon409]

. . . .The MU-2 is another on I was hoping for also. bummer.......
I didn't want to let on that I knew some inside scoop on the MU-2, but given the reasons for dropping the Jet Star, I would have to think the MU-2 would be dropped for the same reasons.:salute:

[n4gix]

...using obsolete design software.

Say what? When did GMax v1.2 become "obsolete?" :isadizzy:

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

The Project list does have both an MU2 and a Jet on it , i was at an airfield last year and took a number of interior and exterior pics of the MU2 , re the Biz Jet , more on that later.

As to Gmax , its inability to use Vray and render to texture put's it at a disadvantage, tools like automatic UVW mapping can save weeks of work, and rendering parts with shadowing cuts down time in Photoshop as well.

[Lionheart]

Say what? When did GMax v1.2 become "obsolete?" :isadizzy:

I agree. Still a very powerful design engine.

I would think that the company that makes the actual Jetstar are also difficult to deal with and do not wish to have it released as a FS plane...



Bill

[Gibbage]

Gmax was introduced in 2002, and Autodesk discontenued supporting it in 2005. The software is 8+ years old, and is a stripped version of Max. Since then, autodesk has added numerous features to Max that save time and make the product look better. There is no way I could of make a product like the P-38 in Gmax using its limited tool sets in a reasonable time or quality.

Thats my openion. Anyone that still uses it, I salute them :salute: but its a bit like wood carving using a chain saw. Sure, there are people who can, and do a wonderfull job doing it, but the added tools can only make the finished product look all that better. The two biggest obsticals is price (Gmax is free, 3DS is $5000) and learning the new tools.

[tigisfat]

That announcement is kinda anticlimactic really, most of us knew it was never going to see the light of day, much like the MU-2 which has been "on the drawing board" for years as well.:salute:

Well, ya just gotta have that Alphasim attitude. YEARS go by and you keeping telling people to 'chill out, it's coming' and then you release part of it. :icon_lol:

[gajit]

Well, ya just gotta have that Alphasim attitude. YEARS go by and you keeping telling people to 'chill out, it's coming' and then you release part of it. :icon_lol:

Very true :ernae:

[tigisfat]

I'll bet peopled lining up out the proverbial door to buy that thing for five bucks if you slapped it together guys....hint hint....

It'd be a good way to generate a little extra revenue.

[Skittles]

What does 3DS max do that Gmax can't (in FSX terms)?

3DS max is clearly a more powerful program for the majority of purposes, but what extra benefits does it give me in aircraft design/texturing that Gmax can't?

I actually have access to 3DS max so I'd really like to know!

[Gibbage]

#1, render 2 texture. Baking in advanced lighting and shadows from Vray and Mental Ray made the P-38 and F6F cockpit come to life.

#2, UV tools greatly speed up the process of UV mapping.

#3, too many modeling tools to list. Things like Freeform sculpting really help in modeling things quickly and easy.

#4, D3D shaders in viewport. You can preview and get a good idea for how things will look before you export things into FSX.

#5, the ability to render out screenshots for forum users without having to export it into FSX. Print screen in Gmax works, but Max default lighting can kill a lot of detail.

These are just a few off the top of my head. Lets not forget all the Max plugins that dont work in Gmax. Also the ability to save and export to other programs like Maya and so on.

[Skittles]

#1, render 2 texture. Baking in advanced lighting and shadows from Vray and Mental Ray made the P-38 and F6F cockpit come to life.

#2, UV tools greatly speed up the process of UV mapping.

#3, too many modeling tools to list. Things like Freeform sculpting really help in modeling things quickly and easy.

#4, D3D shaders in viewport. You can preview and get a good idea for how things will look before you export things into FSX.

#5, the ability to render out screenshots for forum users without having to export it into FSX. Print screen in Gmax works, but Max default lighting can kill a lot of detail.

These are just a few off the top of my head. Lets not forget all the Max plugins that dont work in Gmax. Also the ability to save and export to other programs like Maya and so on.

That's just a list of more things that I don't know how to do lol.

Sigh.

Guess I'll get looking at some tutorials. Hopefully when I import my Gmax model so far (I imagine I can do that some way or another) I won't decide to start the whole thing again in Max.

[Bjoern]

What's going to happen to the already done parts now?
Trash bin? A folder in the farthest corner of a dev's HDD?


What I want to say: Give someone the chance to finish that thing!

[expat]

What's going to happen to the already done parts now?

Was wondering that myself. Would be a shame to waste the work + many would be happy with it I am sure as a freeware goodwill gesture.

[skyhawka4m]

How about if they handed it over to SOH as a donation aircraft. I'm sure someone here could make magic with it.

[Helldiver]

That is really too bad. I know that Sylvania flew two Jetstars in it's fleet and they were handsome aircraft. They kept them at the Sylvania's hanger at Beverly, Massachusetts.

[Skittles]

To those suggesting that they open it up as freeware;

If they are saying that they are ditching it due to obsolete design programs etc, you can assume it is a completely obsolete design. I imagine it would be better for someone to start from scratch.

It is a funny old plane though. Wouldn't be much fun to model.

[Bjoern]

If they are saying that they are ditching it due to obsolete design programs etc, you can assume it is a completely obsolete design. I imagine it would be better for someone to start from scratch.

If the modeling program was FSDS 1/2 I tend to agree, but Gmax is far from obsolete...

[Skittles]

If the modeling program was FSDS 1/2 I tend to agree, but Gmax is far from obsolete...

No mate, I use Gmax lol - I'm not referring to the design program.

I mean that if they are saying the design program is obselete, it's more likely that the mesh is of a poor standard, and it would probably be easier to start again.

[n4gix]

What's going to happen to the already done parts now?
Trash bin? A folder in the farthest corner of a dev's HDD?

The person who was modeling the Jetstar left the team; hence his work-in-progress went with him...

...I don't know for certain, but I suspect that the artwork was done by another team member, so the rights to the artwork remain his/hers, and therefore cannot be used by JG now.

Understand that until a model is completed and turned over as a "finished product," the exclusive rights have not been transferred (unless of course the modeler was a salaried employee!)...

[Lionheart]

You know, the owner of that model could publically announce it up for sale.

A design team might be very interested in taking it off of his hands.

One might wish to check with Gulfstream though and find out if they would allow it to be sold or released, what ever would happen. I still think that is the main cause of it not being released.



Bill

[expat]

Bill,

I think that woud be Lockheed rather than Gulfstream or General Dynamics, but the fact that they haven't made or sold one in decades might make them more relaxed.

expat

[Lionheart]

Thanks Expat.




For those wondering now about going to Max, let me give you a rude awakening.

Only Max 7 thru Max 9 and Max 2008 work with the FSX SDK.

Max / Autodesk no longer sell these Editions. Further, they only sell the year they are on, such as now, Max 2010. They also say that you cannot buy 'past' editions of Max. So getting Max 2008 or Max 9 from them presently is an impossibility. This is from them, via two agents I contacted concerning this.

The only way you can get the Max version you need is possibly through Ebay or some other place (Amazon?) where someone is selling their old package. Good luck getting it to work as Autodesk only sell it 'once' to one single person, so if its been activated already, you are out of luck. If its sealed in the box, never been used, you are good to go.

If you get the Student edition, bad news. It lasts a temporary amount of time and has watermarks on all renders and outputs. Basically worthless to a Dev.


So, if the world is changing to Max........ oops...




Bill

[Jim Goldman]

Guys:

If FSD does not develop the Jetstar as they have in so many words suggested, I would be interested in exploring further development of the Jetstar with a new gauge and FD developer, and bringing it into FSX. BTW, I am the author of the artwork for that aircraft.

Best to all

Jim Goldman

[N2056]

As good as 3DS Max is for me the choice is easy. I model because it is a hobby that occasionally makes me a few $$$. It's not my livelihood. I can live with my limitations. If I had that much money to toss at a spare time occupation I would be getting my pilot's license! :d

[Bjoern]

No mate, I use Gmax lol - I'm not referring to the design program.

I mean that if they are saying the design program is obselete, it's more likely that the mesh is of a poor standard, and it would probably be easier to start again.

Well, it would in any case be enough for a freeware release...




The person who was modeling the Jetstar left the team; hence his work-in-progress went with him...

...I don't know for certain, but I suspect that the artwork was done by another team member, so the rights to the artwork remain his/hers, and therefore cannot be used by JG now.

Understand that until a model is completed and turned over as a "finished product," the exclusive rights have not been transferred (unless of course the modeler was a salaried employee!)...

Aww shoot. :(

[n4gix]

Guys:

If FSD does not develop the Jetstar as they have in so many words suggested, I would be interested in exploring further development of the Jetstar with a new gauge and FD developer, and bringing it into FSX. BTW, I am the author of the artwork for that aircraft.

Hi Jim! It's good to know that you also "own the artwork," as that will make it easier to complete, should circumstances allow.

Good to here from you again!

Shalom

[Jim Goldman]

Hi Jim! It's good to know that you also "own the artwork," as that will make it easier to complete, should circumstances allow.

Good to here from you again!

Shalom

Hi Bill:

I am looking towards a brighter future, health and life circumstances are getting better everyday. All I can say is that we are blessed.

Hope you are doing well my friend.

Saludos

Jim

[Niceone98]

Very disappointed to read this by Steve over at FSD's forums but not surprised as it has been stalled for so long the work has become dated.



Oddly, it still is listed in their work in progress page, but I think this is now a dead duck.

I am probably in a minority here but I would really like to see more quality, including payware, FSX business jets - particularly long rangers - but am also aware IP legal issues hamper getting, e.g., a G5 or Falcon 7x. Shame someone else doesn't have a go at a Jetstar - the original and most classic business jet of them all.

expat


Someone take over to finish the Lockheed Jetstar. Nice aircraft and if they can make one for FS9 even better. Come on people, we can do it. hehe
:jump::applause::running::wavey:

[Ferry_vO]

Someone take over to finish the Lockheed Jetstar. Nice aircraft and if they can make one for FS9 even better. Come on people, we can do it. hehe
:jump::applause::running::wavey:

After over four years....? Not going to happen....