OT: Proper ciriculum to be taught in VA Schools

[Snuffy]

Hopefully this will counter all the crap as seen on tv ... this should be done on a national level.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/24/virginia-teach-gun-safety-elementary-students/

[TeaSea]

Okay, this is odd....

I was taught to shoot in High School. On a range, in the High School. By a teacher, hired by the state.

I was primarily taught gun safety, and shooting as an afterthought. It proved to be good teaching, because the Army, although it tried, did not teach me as well as my High School teacher.

The reason of course is because the Army was teaching me to kill or suppress targets, and not to shoot.

The two are different in some respects.

Now, I grew up in a hunting family, (although I personally preferred to go fishing and never picked up the hunting bug), so the result of that is that I have never viewed guns with any trepidation and in fact, am shocked to find people out there that do. To me, they are simply tools. No more or no less than a hammer. I've never been impressed with hammers, and am not with guns. I do have a small collection of historical firearms because I happen to appreciate their historical value. I shoot them very rarely.

I think people who are raised around guns, are less likely to view them with any particular fascination, and less likely to use them as weapons. My personal opinion obviously...but in keeping with that, agree with you that regular instruction would likely lead to less problems later.

BTW, I remember both my High School lessons, and my Army lessons.

[cheezyflier]

i was hoping they were going to teach kids how to properly handle firearms instead of DON'T TOUCH THE EVIL GUN! GO GET AN ADULT!

[djscoo]

i was hoping they were going to teach kids how to properly handle firearms instead of DON'T TOUCH THE EVIL GUN! GO GET AN ADULT!

Eddie Eagle says:
"Stop! Don't touch! Leave the Area! Tell an adult!"

I learned how to avoid guns via an animated rapping eagle in elementary school. I learned to safely handle and use a gun through boy scouts.

[stiz]

sorry but whenever i think eddie the eagle i think of this :icon_lol:

9UjkLC5w_fU

maybe you guys should chose a better name for your gun safety thing :running: :icon_lol:

[PRB]

I guess we don't have enough threads locked or closed, so we need to stir up some more crap. I can't think of a better subject designed to stir up heated acrimonious debate than gun control. Geez.

[Trans_23]

I guess we don't have enough threads locked or closed, so we need to stir up some more crap. I can't think of a better subject designed to stir up heated acrimonious debate than gun control. Geez.
Was just thinking the same thing :gameoff:

[TARPSBird]

With some of these recent topics I wouldn't feel comfortable discussing them with friends in a bar, not to mention on an internet forum where I have no idea what strong opinions the rest of you may hold.

[stansdds]

In before the lock! :wiggle:

I doubt this is the correct forum for such discussions.

[Ken Stallings]

The only reason such lessons in school are resisted is because some adults believe that if it's never talked about then it will go away.

If adults truly care about child safety, they recognize that regardless of politics, the Eddie the Eagle program has worked to improve gun safety around children. And that goal should be something all adults agree upon.

Leave the politics among the adults in a civic forum. Teach the kids the undeniable facts and keep them safe!

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

I guess we don't have enough threads locked or closed, so we need to stir up some more crap. I can't think of a better subject designed to stir up heated acrimonious debate than gun control. Geez.

That's the whole point!

If it is TURNED into a discussion about gun control it will only be because some members wish to change the topic to suit their aims.

The point of THIS thread is child safety and providing children an undeniable message.

If they see a gun, "STOP! Don't Touch! Leave the Area! Tell an adult!"

If you disagree with telling a young child that warning, then please proceed to say why you don't want a child to follow this advice when they see a firearm.

If you want to talk about something else, then I respectfully suggest another forum.

Cheers,

Ken

[PRB]

That's the whole point!

If it is TURNED into a discussion about gun control it will only be because some members wish to change the topic to suit their aims.

The point of THIS thread is child safety and providing children an undeniable message.

If they see a gun, "STOP! Don't Touch! Leave the Area! Tell an adult!"

If you disagree with telling a young child that warning, then please proceed to say why you don't want a child to follow this advice when they see a firearm.

If you want to talk about something else, then I respectfully suggest another forum.

Cheers,

Ken

Fantasy Land.

It started as about gun control. Although I agree 100% with your first post in this thread, to think this topic isn't about gun control is, well, as I said, fantasy. I'm not debating, here, the topic of gun control (which is what this is) but about the proclivities, of some people here, to constantly push the envelope, to see how far they can go, how many posts will it take before my thread gets closed, against the explicit wishes of the people who run this site.

[djscoo]

Fantasy Land.

It started as about gun control. Although I agree 100% with your first post in this thread, to think this topic isn't about gun control is, well, as I said, fantasy. I'm not debating, here, the topic of gun control (which is what this is) but about the proclivities, of some people here, to constantly push the envelope, to see how far they can go, how many posts will it take before my thread gets closed, against the explicit wishes of the people who run this site.

Why is this thread still open then? If you don't want people to push the envelope then shut it down before it has time to devolve. Have we not proven ourselves time and again incapable of keeping our opinions to ourselves?

[Ken Stallings]

Why is this thread still open then? If you don't want people to push the envelope then shut it down before it has time to devolve. Have we not proven ourselves time and again incapable of keeping our opinions to ourselves?

OK, I will provide a reason.

I have two children of my own. I personally think it is good when school systems do what is demonstrated time and again as being in the best interest of child safety.

And I say again this thread is purely about providing safety lessons for children to help keep them unharmed.

Do you really think a thread with that goal in mind should be closed?

Ken

[Snuffy]

Fantasy Land.

It started as about gun control. Although I agree 100% with your first post in this thread, to think this topic isn't about gun control is, well, as I said, fantasy. I'm not debating, here, the topic of gun control (which is what this is) but about the proclivities, of some people here, to constantly push the envelope, to see how far they can go, how many posts will it take before my thread gets closed, against the explicit wishes of the people who run this site.

As the OP of this thread, you have no clue as to why I posted this article to start with! And if you even think to know that I started it as a discusson in favor of gun control you could never be more wrong.

The point is, children and kids are getting their hands on guns and they are killing people with them, because of what is being put in their heads regarding guns based on the crap they see from hollywood, or other misinformation.

If a proper respect is taught early enough, then perhaps we will see less and less misuse and misunderstanding of what guns can do, from kids so young.

When I was a kid I was always around guns, my father taught me to respect the weapon for what it was ... every kid should have this opportunity.

[djscoo]

OK, I will provide a reason.

I have two children of my own. I personally think it is good when school systems do what is demonstrated time and again as being in the best interest of child safety.

And I say again this thread is purely about providing safety lessons for children to help keep them unharmed.

Do you really think a thread with that goal in mind should be closed?

Ken

After rereading the story, I just can't figure out the purpose of this thread's existence.The news story is about kids being shown an Eddie the Eagle video.I was in kindergarten in 1995 and we watched Eddie the Eagle then.

Okay, good for Virginia for finally catching up with the rest of the country. Seriously, what more is there to discuss? The way Snuffy's post is worded could be construed as anti-gun control which is sort of provoking a response from those in favor of gun control.

[Cratermaker]

Oddly, this thread hasn't turned in to an actual argument about gun control, but an argument about whether this thread will cause an argument about gun control!

[Henry]

Oddly, this thread hasn't turned in to an actual argument about gun control, but an argument about whether this thread will cause an argument about gun control!
lol one never knows:isadizzy:
H

[HouseHobbit]

"argument about whether this thread will cause an argument"
OKAY... This is a first, even for this place..
Time to mark this date..
LOL..
a "argument" about a "argument" that hasn't happened yet, sounds like Monty Python
TOO COOL..
Only at SOH..Think what the rest of the world is missing..
Next thing is a Post about Nothing,
No wait already did that one..
LOL..

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I think everybody is "gunshy" :d

-Ed-

[pilottj]

you want an argument eh?...think we should consult the masters of argument...:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

[Ken Stallings]

"argument about whether this thread will cause an argument"
OKAY... This is a first, even for this place..
Time to mark this date..
LOL..
a "argument" about a "argument" that hasn't happened yet, sounds like Monty Python
TOO COOL..
Only at SOH..Think what the rest of the world is missing..
Next thing is a Post about Nothing,
No wait already did that one..
LOL..

Shall I count to three to hurl thy holy hand grenade at thy foe so he shall snuff it? :icon_lol:

Ken

[Cees Donker]

you want an argument eh?...think we should consult the masters of argument...:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM


:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: :icon_lol:

Cees

[TeaSea]

With all due respect, I think some of you moderators are getting overly sensitive. Ride loose in the saddle my friends.

[Toastmaker]

I guess we don't have enough threads locked or closed, so we need to stir up some more crap. I can't think of a better subject designed to stir up heated acrimonious debate than gun control. Geez.



Yeah, geez is right! Why don't you just post a list of topics that you approve of and we'll decide if we want to participate!

What the hell is gioing on around here? We're adults - not children.

[jmig]

With all due respect, I think some of you moderators are getting overly sensitive. Ride loose in the saddle my friends.

We're cool. If I seem a little jumpy, it is because I sat in the wrong spot at the music festival and gave ants in my pants. ;)

[cheezyflier]

it's not just the mods. in case folks haven't noticed, their job has become alot more difficult lately. if they are getting a little jumpy, it's because there is a small group of people here, who i don't think i need to identify, that seem too ready to be offended by any subject. these are the people who will ruin newshawks for the rest of us. whining and complaining until every post is sanitized to their satisfaction, what we will eventually be left with is a forum so frightened of offending someone, no one will even post here anymore. i grew up being taught that if you enter a group and don't like the atmosphere, you find another group that better suits you. well, i've loved the atmosphere here up until recently, when it has begun to be infected by people bent on changing the outhouse into something that no longer resembles what it was/is. sadly, the drawback of the internet is that aren't all here face to face. troubles like those i'm speaking of would be alot easier to solve.

[txnetcop]

Yeah, geez is right! Why don't you just post a list of topics that you approve of and we'll decide if we want to participate!

What the hell is gioing on around here? We're adults - not children.


LOL:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
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[RyanJames170]

intresting article

[Ken Stallings]

it's not just the mods. in case folks haven't noticed, their job has become alot more difficult lately. if they are getting a little jumpy, it's because there is a small group of people here, who i don't think i need to identify, that seem too ready to be offended by any subject. these are the people who will ruin newshawks for the rest of us. whining and complaining until every post is sanitized to their satisfaction, what we will eventually be left with is a forum so frightened of offending someone, no one will even post here anymore. i grew up being taught that if you enter a group and don't like the atmosphere, you find another group that better suits you. well, i've loved the atmosphere here up until recently, when it has begun to be infected by people bent on changing the outhouse into something that no longer resembles what it was/is. sadly, the drawback of the internet is that aren't all here face to face. troubles like those i'm speaking of would be alot easier to solve.

I've written this privately to some of the staff and perhaps it is now time for the majority of us to say it publicly in a respectful tone, and not for the benefit of the staff, but rather the benefit of a very small number of members who seem unable to resist being mean in what they post.

I do believe what has happened here is a very small group who want to poison the atmosphere so that people are intimidated from posting anything they don't personally like. Rather than ignore what is posted, or engage in civilized discussion, they instead deliberately post the most insulting and nasty replies imaginable, questioning other members' most basic morality, including the implication of murder! I believe it is delberate and I term it censorship through closure!

I submit that when this takes place, as difficult as the job is, perhaps the answer is to censure the few individuals vice censor the total discussion. Those who cannot disagree without being disagreeable should endeavor to ignore what they do not like or else develop the ability to disagree in a civilized manner.

I have tremendous sympathy for the staff. As many know I used to be a member of the staff here, but I resigned because I grew so tired of the nasty side of the politics and the constant no-win situation with a few of the members. And it was merely a few. The great majority of folks here are fine, upstanding citizens of the world and I enjoy their company.

Any topic can be discussed civilly. And for me the ultimate way to ensure it is discussed civilly is to require that all posts be civil and if not, issue a private warning and remove the offending post entirely. If the member doesn't agree to reform and act civilly, then ban him permanently. Some object to removing posts and I understand and respect their point of view. But removing precisely what was wrong, vice closing the entire discussion, works to promote the openness desired by most everyone while encouraging civilized discussions.

The most difficult balance for a staff is to create a welcoming environment without welcoming uncivilized behavior. But that's really the trick, the goal. This thread is proof that any topic can be discussed civilly. What's actually been written here in this thread is very civilized and respectful. The staff just has too many recent examples where stuff that was posted in an honest and civilized fashion got dumped on in a very negative and hostile manner. I am certain they were simply trying to "head them off at the pass" so to speak. Perhaps their initiative has helped to create the welcome harmony. So, even as we express concerns, perhaps their gameplan worked!

Cheers,

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

We're cool. If I seem a little jumpy, it is because I sat in the wrong spot at the music festival and gave ants in my pants. ;)

You mean you took ants out of your pants and gave them to others by dumping them into their pants while they weren't looking!

Wow! No wonder folks are keeping a wide distance from you! :icon_lol:

Keep you belts tight folks! Their's mischief about! :icon_lol:

Ken

[Snuffy]

After rereading the story, I just can't figure out the purpose of this thread's existence.The news story is about kids being shown an Eddie the Eagle video.I was in kindergarten in 1995 and we watched Eddie the Eagle then.

Okay, good for Virginia for finally catching up with the rest of the country. Seriously, what more is there to discuss? The way Snuffy's post is worded could be construed as anti-gun control which is sort of provoking a response from those in favor of gun control.


Wrong again ... but ... eh ... no worry.

[djscoo]

Wrong again ... but ... eh ... no worry.

About what?, and when was I wrong the first time?

:crybaby: I don't understand what's going on in here...

[tigisfat]

Wrong again ... but ... eh ... no worry.


I believe he did say "could be".

[Ken Stallings]

About what?, and when was I wrong the first time?

:crybaby: I don't understand what's going on in here...

Folks, I believe I've already stated clearly what Snuffy's motivation was.

Let me state it for him, and he's free to say if I got it wrong.

He believes the best way to keep kids safe around firearms is to give them smart training at a young age and the first step is simply to teach them that if they find a firearm they should not touch it, and go tell an adult where they found it. If the firearm is in the house, then the adult can secure it appropriately. If the firearm is found outside, then police can be brought in to treat it as possible evidence -- based upon the chance it was thrown away by a criminal to avoid detection.

His purpose to create this thread was to report the newsworthy event that despite some controversy driven by a few groups, Virginia took what he and I think is the smart step to implement this youth training.

Cheers,

Ken

[Snuffy]

Mr. Stallings is 100 percent dead on on this thinking. (Thanks for expressing it ... )

Dj, you're "wrong again" in that you were the second one to post here and try to second guess my motivation as a "gun control advocate" for posting this thread. Being second makes you "wrong again," despite being wrong for the first time, and despite using the word(s) "could be".

Yeah, I believe in gun control. Its never having to say, "I missed." And it also requires the use of two hands most times. But in both cases it requires having a gun, which I have no problem with.

Outside of that, a practical and well founded education early in life, for everyone, will help to stymie any phobias about guns and their purposes, and could very well go a long way in the future safety of this country and its people.

There is nothing uncivilized about gun ownership, or of using a gun properly. Its the improper use of firearms that is uncivilized.

And with that, I'm done here.

[TeaSea]

Like I said in my post...a gun is a tool, nothing more, nothing less.

Like all tools, they need to be used safely. I don't leave my chop saw plugged in and hot in my garage. Likewise, I don't leave my pistol laying around loaded without a trigger lock. Just common sense.

Any program that educates folks on gun safety is a good program.

[TeaSea]

BTW, I do want to express my thanks to the unpaid and often unloved moderators of the various forums connected with the outhouse.....

Just in case you were feeling particularly unloved....I dream of you at night......:wiggle:

Maybe you didn't want to read that.....

[txnetcop]

BTW, I do want to express my thanks to the unpaid and often unloved moderators of the various forums connected with the outhouse.....

Just in case you were feeling particularly unloved....I dream of you at night......:wiggle:

Maybe you didn't want to read that.....

I don't think Jmig loses a lot of sleep over this. He is pretty level guy! I just wanted to add I have never had a gun accident and I have handled them since I was nine. My dad and grandfather taught me one rule I have never regretted learning. Never ever assume a weapon is unloaded. Even if it has been locked away in your gun case. The so-called unloaded weapon has been used to accidentally kill and injure so many! I've seen soldiers and cops (I've been both) shoot themselves because they forgot this rule. Gun safety training is a must for children and adults!
Ted

By the way, the National Rifle Association gives the best gun safety training program available today.
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[djscoo]

By the way, the National Rifle Association gives the best gun safety training program available today.
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Better than this guy?
DJjLKH5Eegk

[Ken Stallings]

Words fail me!

I've handled hundreds of automatic pistols and to unload them is a simple process and it's no doubt that you have unloaded it provided you do two required things. First, you remove the magazine. Second, you rack open the slide and inspect the chamber to ensure it is clear of rounds.

Then, you can leave the rack locked aft and discuss the weapon to the class. You could set it upon a desk for a thousand years and in that condition would be impossible to be a significant threat to anyone.

So, yeah, I think when the NRA conducts a hunter's safety course the firearms instructors would know this and therefore perform a better demonstration of firearms safety than did this police officer -- who's performance in front of those students, I might add, totally chilled me to the bones!

Ken

[txnetcop]

As I said, I have seen both cops and soldiers shoot themselves with just plain stupid thinking. Never ever assume a weapon is unloaded, always clear it before handling and you won't end up looking like a fool or injured or dead!
Ted
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[TARPSBird]

Familiarity breeds carelessness. Weapon turnover when relieving a security watch for example. I always did the verbal passdown first, before turning over the .45, so I wouldn't be distracted while removing the clip and clearing the chamber or vice versa if I was the oncoming watch. Didn't want to be responsible for putting another hole in the ceiling, there were already a couple tiles replaced from past .45 rounds. ;)