FM's For Noobs

[Moses03]

I have been bitten by the airfile bug and want to dive into the process the right way. After plowing through this forum the last several days my head is starting to spin though. I have been fiddling with Ito's Wyvern for example but doing it poorly. Need a little direction here.

AirWrench, AirEd, FSEdit, and ACM are some of the tools mentioned but my question is where is the best place to start in doing an airfile?

Say I have most of the info I need for a particular aircraft, should I start with FSEdit and then AirWrench? I know some of you approach it a little differently but maybe if you could list some common steps and tools to get me rolling in the right direction.

Thanks much-
Moses

[fliger747]

MOZ:

Glad to see you bitten!

The first place to start, especially with an Ito bird is checking the dimensions. Aircraft container manager, shows the wire frame and wherre everything is (you would be really surprised sometimes...). Unfortunatly it is no longer available, great piece of software though!

Abbacus makes a "Airfile Manager", check their website. Usefull for editing those curves if you are not a hex genius. AirEd, an airfile editor isalso usefull.

For starters, AirWrench (from Jerry) is an excellent starter tool. From that you might try progressing to his 'spreadsheet/workbook' approach. I am not so pleased with FS edit, can do some wierd things.

Tom....

[java2srv]

Hey Moses, count me as a noob too. Let me just recommend at the start that you take is slow and be patient.

I started by using Jerry "Sparks" Beckwith's "Flight Dynamics Workbook" which is an Excel workbook you can download from Jerry's website:

http://www.mudpond.org/

The workbook is free, it is pretty complex but has helped me develop some of the relationships between all the flight model parameters.

Also check out the Microsoft Software Development Kit (SDK) from the FS9 web site

http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimulator/fs2004_downloads_sdk.asp

There are a whole bunch of kits listed here, I got them all... be sure to scroll down the whole page so you get an idea of what's there, then grab everything. :jump:

These documents and tools are cookbooks and references for all the programable parts of Flight Simulator, and there are a lot of them. :isadizzy:

You're interested in flight dynamics but you may gain some insight into how the SDKs work if you scan through some of the other docs, say Weather Themes for example.

For looking at the mysterious ".air" file I've used AirEd in the past and now I use Sparks' "AirWrench" which you can also get from mudpond.org --there's a small registration fee for AirWrench, but combined with the Flight Dynamics Workbook I think the two give a great end-to-end view of the flight model. Use AirEd also to give you 2 views of the same information, you can get AirEd at Avsim or Flightsim.com (aired152_update806.zip)

FSEdit is the tool from the SDK that lets you create and modify aircraft, its not my first choice for really seeing how a flight model goes together but it is part of the SDK.

The "Aircraft Container" SDK and "Panels and Gauges" SDK are probably going to be more informative, but you don't actually make much with them as opposed to FSEdit. :kilroy:

The Aircraft Container SDK isn't the same as the no-longer-available Aircraft Container Manger. ACM was a graphical user interface for editing a lot of different aircraft model settings.

I never had ACM, and kind of prefer the incremental approach using the SDK documents, Flight Dynamics Workbook and AirWrench. Your approach probably depends on how you learn best and what works out to be the best way to absorb the info.

My 2-cents on how I've approached the hobby within a hobby. If I were starting an air file from scratch I'd probably go with the Flight Dynamics Workbook. Hope the comments are useful and hope you post again soon to let us know how its going. :)

[fliger747]

It's a lot of fun!

The now extinct Aircraft Container Manager was a great tool for working with existing aircraft to check on and adjust the physical parts of the plane, position and geometry of wings, contact points, fuel tanks etc.

Then there is the test flying, trying to figure out why something isn't working as you hoped...

Good luck with the Wyvern, you will need to go through everything!

Regards: t.

[Moses03]

I have been using FSEdit & AirEd. AirWrench is a must from what I have been reading here. Been looking over the workbook from Mudpond trying to get familiar with the process. Bummer that the ACM has gone extinct. Something like that should show up as freeware one of the days if you ask me. :engel016:

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

Moses

[java2srv]

Hi Moses!

Hope yer project is going well, my "latest" was a re-engine for the Ford Trimotor with the R-1340 Wasp from the T-6 --same basic engine but much later version. That projects been going on a year. :-)

In my last post I was thinking I'd read something here about Kazunori Ito's GMAX models and I found the thread -- it was posted when he released the F-82 Twin Mustang.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=29192



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ad.php?t=29192 (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=29192)

Post #13
Henry, (and others taking a shot at the flight dynamics) when you look at this plane in ACM you see the CG is right at the trailing edge of the wing. This is another case of a designer centering the project in the design program for ease of viewing and then when finished forgetting to hit "select all" and moving the entire project until the CG is in a reasonable place, like 1/4 chord behind the leading edge. You can also see in ACM he has had to make some very strange weight , fuel and engine locations to compensate. I was going to redo the flight dynamics starting with a P-38 set but without the source code to make the CG adjustment it looks too tedious.
I recognize this mistake because I have done it myself a few times.

Paul (PutPut)

Post #16
Paul i always have that problem with his AC
the p61 was that way also
it is a nightmare and a shame
he does make some great models
thanks
H
If the GMAX model uses a center that isn't located near the aircraft CG all the distances and measurements to wingtips, tail, weight of the engine, weight of the fuel, are going to be relative to the center of coordinates chosen when the model was made.

One of the big advantages of ACM was that you could see where the model center was located.

You might want to talk someone who's got ACM into giving you a hand with the Wyvern.

I agree, it'd be great if something like ACM showed up again as freeware.

I'm in school until September otherwise I'd offer to team up with you; All The Best!:wavey:
J

[fliger747]

The FM's that I did for the Twin Mustangs needed the virtual plane moved about 8 ' forward to match the 'pysical model'. Once that transpired, progress was possible.

I did the same thing and sent the 'stuff' to Moses for the Wyvern. Ito needs to team up with a VC person and a FM person! Few of us are good at everything (though I can think of a few!).

T.

[Moses03]

You might want to talk someone who's got ACM into giving you a hand with the Wyvern.



Tom was nice enough to do just that as he mentions. :ernae:

[fliger747]

M:

If you come up against any 'walls', just e-mail me. Not that I know all the answers, but I know many of the errors!

T.

[PRB]

Dang Moses, you and me had the exact same thought at the same time! I just payed my 18.00 dollars for AirWrench this morning, and I have decided to try to learn this as well. I too was inspired by the friendly flight dynamics food fight going on in the top secret racing hideout.

I've decided to make a T-28B air file. The reason for the T-28 is simple. I have 1) a T-28B/C NATOPS manual, and 2) an original copy of North American Aviation ESTIMATED PERFORMANCE DATA FOR NAVY MODEL T-28B TRAINER CONTRACT NOa(s) 53-313 (NAA MODELS NA-199 AND NA-200) book. It has tons of data.

Seems like without knowing odd stuff like propeller efficiency, root chord, maximum flap defection angle, it would be hard to make a flight model, and where the heck do you find stuff like that? In the case of the T-28, at least, I have all that and more. Plus there's Piglets beautiful T-28 model out there to inflict, err, test my flight model on. :)

[fliger747]

The T-28 is a cool plane. There used to be two of them here in Fairbanks, used by the Forestry dept. One of My First Officers, an ex Navy type had the T-28 as his first (ever) airplane!

If you have a lot of data, try out Jerry's (free) workbook. It is somewhat more sophisticated than Airwrench. As you will find, there is a lot of bend to fit, paint to match in airfile work!

For many WWII fighters, "America's Hundred Thousand" has almost everything you need data wise, as well as good descriptive information.