How hard is it to become a pilot? [Archive]

View Full Version : How hard is it to become a pilot?

Ken Stallings

April 16th, 2010, 16:01

How hard is it to become a pilot?

The short answer is "not very difficult at all!"

And that's the total truth!

In terms of the type of pure fun flying inherent in the Light Sport Aircraft and Airman certification for the United States' market, it is every bit as easy as learning to drive a car. Flight in good VFR weather conditions and in a local area you are familiar with, is truly delightful and easy to achieve.

Among the most frustrating of myths I see perpetuated is the myth that being a pilot is really anything special. What's very special is the level of pure joy that piloting an aircraft provides for the person flying! That's undeniable.

Costs have historically been a prime obstacle, and I can understand that. Medical has been another. The sports pilot certification process with the FAA in America changes the second obstacle. If you can earn a driver's license, you have all the medical requirement needed to earn and maintain a sports pilots license!

This is because of the limits in the aircraft's performance you can pilot. And, also the limits on where and when you can fly it. But, make no mistake, being restricted to VFR flight conditions, an aircraft with only two seats, low weight, and low horsepower single engine, isn't a negative as much as it is a purely liberating invitation to some of the most unmittigated fun a human being can have!

In terms of costs, it's about half what it costs to earn your private pilot certificate. For around $2,500 you can earn this certificate. For around $70 an hour, you can rent an aircraft. In fact, your biggest obstacle to renting will be living in an area blessed with a local company at your municipal airport that has an LSA to rent you!

But if more people decide to embark upon this path to joy, the opportunities shall surely expand. If millions of Americans in a nation populated with around 300 million folks wanted to become pilots, a path would be beaten down upon the grass to supply the aircraft for the training and future flying.

Take the gamble folks! Take the path less traveled by, and enjoy the experience it shall provide for you!

Ken

djscoo

April 16th, 2010, 16:22

Thanks for the info, around how long does it take to earn a Light Sport certification?

tigisfat

April 16th, 2010, 16:24

Thanks for the info, around how long does it take to earn a Light Sport certification?

If you had a week off, you could do it in a week.

tigisfat

April 16th, 2010, 16:25

For around $70 an hour, you can rent an aircraft. In fact, your biggest obstacle to renting will be living in an area blessed with a local company at your municipal airport that has an LSA to rent you!

Ken, when was the last time you rented? Perhaps the privelege of owning a few nice planes has put you behind about five years or so. :icon_lol:

Ken Stallings

April 16th, 2010, 16:33

Ken, when was the last time you rented? Perhaps the privelege of owning a few nice planes has put you behind about five years or so. :icon_lol:

There is a place within 30 minutes drive of my house that will rent you a servicable Skyhawk for $70 an hour. They will rent you a Piper Twin Apache for $250 an hour.

I respectfully submit I know of what I speak. :engel016:

Cheers,

Ken

brad kaste

April 16th, 2010, 17:01

Thanks Ken for posting. You've answered some questions that have always crossed my mind.

OBIO

April 16th, 2010, 17:14

Last spring I had the chance to talk to the president of the local Light Sport Aircraft club. He was a flight instructor who said he could get me into the air as a LSA pilot for around 15 hundred dollars. And he said that I wanted to go further and get my PPL, he could be my instructor for that as well. And he said his best friend had a vintage Piper Cub that was up for sale....$40 thousand, freshly inspected, low hours on the motor and on the total rebuild of the plane.

Yeah, sounded great.....if I only had the cash to lay out for all of that. I am hard pressed to pay for a $21 oil change on the 96 Corsica.

OBIO

lifejogger

April 16th, 2010, 18:34

When I did my flight training (way before the Light Sport Certification) it was $35 and hour for the instructor and $70 an hour for the Piper Cherokee 140 I learned to fly in. Multiply that times 64 hours and the Light Sport Certificate is a bargain. I would encourage anyone who can to give it a try, there nothing better going flying on a Sunday after noon.

cheezyflier

April 16th, 2010, 18:40

that price is very encouraging. so if one had a light sport licence, what would the limitations be? could i fly 600 miles? could i cross the american canadian border? could i bring the wife?

N2056

April 16th, 2010, 18:59

I have an unusual dilemma. I have flown for years with my father in the various planes we have had. I have a fair amount of flying experience, but I do not have a ticket. I could go the LSA route which would get me legal in our Pietenpol, or opt for the "full meal deal" which would allow me to fly the Piet and the Thorp.

Which route would make more economic sense? If I got my recreational ticket first to at least fly the Piet and then wanted to upgrade later would it really make a difference in total cost when compared to just getting my PPL outright?

Ken Stallings

April 16th, 2010, 19:12

that price is very encouraging. so if one had a light sport licence, what would the limitations be? could i fly 600 miles? could i cross the american canadian border? could i bring the wife?

Here is the latest FAA Code of Federal Regulation (FAR):

Code of Federal Regulations

<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>
http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/expand.gif (javascript:_dSectionExpand('1'))Sec. 61.101

http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/collapse.gif (javascript:_dSectionCollapse('1'))Sec. 61.101

<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD width="100%" colSpan=2>
Part 61 CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width="50%">Subpart D--Recreational Pilots</TD><TD width="50%">

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Sec. 61.101

Recreational pilot privileges and limitations.

(a) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate may:
(1) Carry no more than one passenger; and
(2) Not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with a passenger, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenses, or aircraft rental fees.
[(b) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft on a flight within 50 nautical miles from the departure airport, provided that person has--]
(1) Received ground and flight training for takeoff, departure, arrival, and landing procedures at the departure airport;
(2) Received ground and flight training for the area, terrain, and aids to navigation that are in the vicinity of the departure airport;
(3) Been found proficient to operate the aircraft at the departure airport and the area within 50 nautical miles from that airport; and
(4) Received from an authorized instructor a logbook endorsement, which is carried in the person's possession in the aircraft, that permits flight within 50 nautical miles from the departure airport.
[(c) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft on a flight that exceeds 50 nautical miles from the departure airport, provided that person has--]
(1) Received ground and flight training from an authorized instructor on the cross-country training requirements of subpart E of this part that apply to the aircraft rating held;
(2) Been found proficient in cross-country flying; and
(3) Received from an authorized instructor a logbook endorsement, which is carried on the person's possession in the aircraft, that certifies the person has received and been found proficient in the cross-country training requirements of subpart E of this part that apply to the aircraft rating held.
[(d) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft in Class B, C, and D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, and to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower, provided that person has--]
(1) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized instructor on the following aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation, as appropriate to the aircraft rating held:
(i) The use of radios, communications, navigation system and facilities, and radar services.
(ii) Operations at airports with an operating control tower to include three takeoffs and landings to a full stop, with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern at an airport with an operating control tower.
(iii) Applicable flight rules of part 91 of this chapter for operations in Class B, C, and D airspace and air traffic control clearances;
(2) Been found proficient in those aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation specified in paragraph (d)(1) of this section; and
(3) Received from an authorized instructor a logbook endorsement, which is carried on the person's possession or readily accessible in the aircraft, that certifies the person has received and been found proficient in those aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation specified in paragraph (d)(1) of this section.
(e) Except as provided in paragraphs (d) and (i) of this section, a recreational pilot may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft-
(1) That is certificated-
(i) For more than four occupants;
(ii) With more than one powerplant;
[(iii) With a powerplant of more than 180 horsepower, except aircraft certificated in the rotorcraft category; or]
(iv) With retractable landing gear;
(2) That is classified as a multiengine airplane, powered-lift, glider, airship, balloon, powered parachute, or weight-shift-control aircraft;
(3) That is carrying a passenger or property for compensation or hire;
(4) For compensation or hire;
(5) In furtherance of a business;
(6) Between sunset and sunrise;
(7) In Class A, B, C, and D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, or to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower;
(8) At an altitude of more than 10,000 feet MSL or 2,000 feet AGL, whichever is higher;
(9) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles;
(10) Without visual reference to the surface;
(11) On a flight outside the United States, unless authorized by the country in which the flight is conducted;
(12) To demonstrate that aircraft in flight as an aircraft salesperson to a prospective buyer;
(13) That is used in a passenger-carrying airlift and sponsored by a charitable organization; and
(14) That is towing any object.
(f) A recreational pilot may not act as a pilot flight crewmember on any aircraft for which more than one pilot is required by the type certificate of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted, except when:
(1) Receiving flight training from a person authorized to provide flight training on board an airship; and
(2) No person other than a required flight crewmember is carried on the aircraft.
(g) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate, has logged fewer than 400 flight hours, and has not logged pilot-in-command time in an aircraft within the 180 days preceding the flight shall not act as pilot in command of an aircraft until the pilot receives flight training and a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor, and the instructor certifies that the person is proficient to act as pilot in command of the aircraft. This requirement can be met in combination with the requirements of Secs. 61.56 and 61.57 of this part, at the discretion of the authorized instructor.
(h) A recreational pilot certificate issued under this subpart carries the notation, "Holder does not meet ICAO requirements."
(i) For the purpose of obtaining additional certificates or ratings while under the supervision of an authorized instructor, a recreational pilot may fly as the sole occupant of an aircraft:
(1) For which the pilot does not hold an appropriate category or class rating;
(2) Within airspace that requires communication with air traffic control; or
(3) Between sunset and sunrise, provided the flight or surface visibility is at least 5 statute miles.
(j) In order to fly solo as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, the recreational pilot must meet the appropriate aeronautical knowledge and flight training requirements of Sec. 61.87 for that aircraft. When operating an aircraft under the conditions specified in paragraph (i) of this section, the recreational pilot shall carry the logbook that has been endorsed for each flight by an authorized instructor who:
(1) Has given the recreational pilot training in the make and model of aircraft in which the solo flight is to be made;
(2) Has found that the recreational pilot has met the applicable requirements of Sec. 61.87; and
(3) Has found that the recreational pilot is competent to make solo flights in accordance with the logbook endorsement.

Amdt. 61-110, Eff. 9/1/2004; Amdt. 61-125, Eff. 10/20/09
<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/expand.gif (javascript:_dSectionExpand('2'))Comments
http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/collapse.gif (javascript:_dSectionCollapse('2'))Comments

<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/expand.gif (javascript:_dSectionExpand('3'))Document History
http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/collapse.gif (javascript:_dSectionCollapse('3'))Document History
Notice of Proposed Rulemaking Actions:

Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. Notice No. 02-03; (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgNPRM.nsf/2ed8a85bb3dd48e68525644900598dfb/ae5ca362d276d7ef86256b79006a9406!OpenDocument)Publ ished in the Federal Register on February 5, 2002.
Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. Notice No. 02-07; (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgNPRM.nsf/2ed8a85bb3dd48e68525644900598dfb/31180a24e002b1e086256b8200721305!OpenDocument) Published in the Federal Register on March 19, 2002.

Final Rule Actions:

Final Rule. Docket No. FAA-2001-11133; (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/c03aa95a6d5f3d57852564720071b601/1d47971728e12ba286256edf004385aa!OpenDocument)Publ ished in the Federal Register on July 27, 2004.
Final rule. Docket No. 2006-26661 (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/861ae0b1f7efc3ee85256453007b0e8a/72dfc1b3808d2cb486257656006e4d11!OpenDocument); Issued on 8/21/09
<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

Ken Stallings

April 16th, 2010, 19:18

The Reader's Digest version of all this is that you can fly anywhere in the US provided you have the endorsements added for cross country, radio operation, and Class C and B operations. If not, then you can fly within 50nm of your home airport.

Regardless, you are restricted to day VMC conditions, only one passenger, and a single engine of under 180hp.

Ken

OBIO

April 16th, 2010, 19:39

I thought light sport had to be 100hp or less and max air speed of 100mph or less, max of 2 seats (pilot and 1 passenger)...can't recall the weight range of the aircraft in the LSA category.

Is there a difference between Light Sport and Recreational?

OBIO

deathfromafar

April 16th, 2010, 20:11

The Recreational Category has been awfully slow in my parts but as post 9/11 insurance rates have gone through the roof as well as the cost of fuel, many FBO's are charging ridiculous rates for rentals and instruction. Rates for rentals alone ranging from $80 to $120 per hour let along Dual rates. The net result is 1/20th the student intake that was seen only 10 years ago. Things were on the decline even before that due to rising costs and fewer wanting to put the bill. When I started nearly 20 years ago, I could rent good Piper and Cessna aircraft for under $40 per hour. Now, the hourly cost is out of sight and it is obvious the FBO's aren't investing much in their rental aircraft except what is legally required by the FAA. My goodness, I can't tell how many times I have had radio and transponder failures in those rentals. A patchwork of garbage, literally! When this new classification came out, I was hopeful it might boost the dying General Aviation market but it seems that slow death will go unabated. That is not to mention the now extreme expense of Part 141 and 91 schools for those who want to go commercial through the civi pipeline. I'm glad I got all my training when I did and am lucky enough to stay current at least for now.

I just think General Aviation will all but disappear in our lifetime. Sad to even think it.

6297J

April 16th, 2010, 21:24

Flying is easy - paying for it is not.
Unless you learn for free in the forces it's beyond the budget of most, although it's certainly cheaper to learn in the US.
So it's actually quite hard to become a pilot unless the Air Force or Daddy pays for it.

Bushpounder

April 17th, 2010, 02:38

There is a place within 30 minutes drive of my house that will rent you a servicable Skyhawk for $70 an hour. They will rent you a Piper Twin Apache for $250 an hour.

I respectfully submit I know of what I speak. :engel016:

Cheers,

Ken

MAN! Prices sure have climbed a little! When I got my multi, I flew an Apache. It was $40.00 an hour! LOL! A factory fresh Seneca II was $100.00. I do disagree with one thing you said. While it doesn't take a special person to become a pilot, not everyone who tries will be successful. I know of many who simply could not get it and quit, even after multiple instructors. Some people can fly, others sail, others walk. Better for all if they grasp the one they are better at! :)

Don

stansdds

April 17th, 2010, 03:31

Recreational pilot's license or 2 months of home mortgage payments, tough call.

That is actually the reason I do not have at least a recreational license. Years ago I was all set to start training, but instead bought a house. Since buying the house, I have not been able to afford anything else.

Toastmaker

April 17th, 2010, 05:26

brad kaste

April 17th, 2010, 06:08

...I know a chap who was a recreational flier for many years. However, he finally gave that up a few years ago because of the cost and getting re-certified annually .

Bjoern

April 17th, 2010, 06:32

Everything is easy if you want it. :)

Roadburner440

April 17th, 2010, 07:24

I have debated getting my pilots license many times. The main dilema I have is not the money, but just not being able to have access to aircraft that I would actually want to fly. I have toyed around with the idea for many years now and after flying GA aircraft in FSX I just do not think to me it would be worth the money. I would much rather fly classic aircraft, and there is no way to rent them. So on top of the $12,000 or so it would take for me to get the actual pilots lisence plus IFR, high power endoresements, etc I would need another million or so to pick up an aircraft. $2500 is a steal for this new sport rating, but you may as well get the actual license with other endorsements so you can do more than just fly in clear daylight weather. Plus I am sure a lot of people have families so only being able to carry 1 passenger isn't enough. I agree with the best way to learn is the military though. Our pilots our rated for multiple engines/rotor craft/fixed wing and VFR/IFR. All while getting paid for it. I should of definately gone to college and gone the officer path just for that bit alone... Not to mention they get their flight physicals and such through the military as well so they can go anytime and just rent an aircraft.

txnetcop

April 17th, 2010, 09:05

There is an easier way to go from an expense standpoint. I fly as much as I like.

http://www.all-about-ultralights.com/faq.htm

A true single seat ultralight requires no license to fly (assuming it meets the requirements of Part 103 for an ultralight aircraft).
Ultralights are defined and operate under simple guidelines specified in FAR Part 103. A summary of the rule is provided here:

Single occupant only for recreation or sport purposes with 5 gallons maximum fuel.

Unpowered free flight empty weight under 155 pounds or powered weighs under 254 excluding floats or safety devices.

55 knots maximum calibrated airspeed at full power in level flight, power-off maximum stall speed 24 knots calibrated.

Can be inspected by FAA to make sure it meets criteria as an ultralight.

Vehicle not required to meet any airworthiness certification standards

Pilot not required to meet any aeronautical knowledge, age, or experience requirements to operate or to have airman or medical certificates.

Not required to be registered or to bear markings of any type.

No operation is allowed that creates a hazard to other persons or property.

Only operate between sunrise and sunset unless equipped with a suitable anti collision light extending flight time to twilight periods 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset.

Yield the right-of-way to all aircraft and not create a collision hazard with any aircraft.

Do not operate an over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.

All operations are conducted in uncontrolled airspace unless prior authorization from the ATC facility to operate in within Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace, or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport.

Must comply with flight restrictions in the proximity of certain areas designated by Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) and Temporary Flight Restrictions (TRF).

No person may operate an ultralight vehicle except by visual reference with the surface.

Visibility and cloud clearances similar to general aviation airspace. (see www.asa2fly.com for the specific FAR 103)

From the freedom to fly unregulated with a few public safety limitations the industry has successfully self regulated. However, common sense and the need for training was well recognized and the ultralight training exemptions were born to meet this need. Three national organizations obtained training exemptions for two place ultralight powered training.

It is inexpensive and easy to learn to fly. Several skills are utilized in brush country like the Texas Hill country. There tons of good ultralight fields with skills training around the world.
Ted
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

tigisfat

April 17th, 2010, 10:03

There is a place within 30 minutes drive of my house that will rent you a servicable Skyhawk for $70 an hour. They will rent you a Piper Twin Apache for $250 an hour.

I respectfully submit I know of what I speak. :engel016:

Cheers,

Ken

That's great that you have those resources available, but if we're being helpful, non-pilot readers need to know that nationwide Cessna 172 averages are probably more like 110/hr right now if I had to guess.

Let's also make sure they don't think that they can complete their sport pilot training in a cessna 172. I think a 152 might qualify though. I'll look that up and get back.

TomSteber

April 17th, 2010, 10:06

tigisfat

April 17th, 2010, 10:17

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It's all about the $
It's hard enough for me to come up with the money to do THIS hobby let alone do it for real.
As it was metioned here by someone (I think) I get to fly anything here. In the real world, I know I can fly a Cessna 172(almost anyone can), Aeronca L-3, sailplane, etc because I've done it.
Even landed them. BUT, I honestly can say from someone who pretty much still lives paycheck to paycheck to pay the bills, I just can't afford to start lessons as much as I would LOVE to.
For now, I'll settle for this hobby and the occasional discovery flight my wife will buy me.

If aviation is a lifelong passion, money comes second.

Most large flight school have financing programs. I did all my flight training as an E-1 and E-2. Just about everyone here knows how much they make.

The price is only going to keep getting higher, and it won't get cheaper. There's no better time than now!! Wives be darned.