Adding Immersion to Missions thread

[O-1Driver]

Are any of you guys interested in a continuing thread that teaches how to add immersion to missions in ETO. We have some very good mission builders that could possibly benefit as well as a lot of new "closet" mission builders who are making their own missions that could greatly improve their learning curve. I know I learned the old fashioned way by trial and error and it took many years. We need more mission builders actively participating new and old.

The thread will not get into the debate of Historical vs What if missions, only ways to improve the realism, immersion and quality of both. A mission can be either type, be accurate but sterile.

Immersive missions require more time and effort to build either historical or what if but the results are well worth the additional time and effort required.

O-1

[O-1Driver]

These are a few of the type of things I am talking about.

An RAF Bomber pilot prepares for takeoff from his home airfield at night. He is number three for departure and as he waits for his turn to take the active he notices the green (cleared for takeoff) caravan flare launching continuously and floating in the clear night air.

In the near distance fuel and ammo trucks are moving hastily away from the revetment area after fueling and arming thee aircraft.

As the pilot takes the active he can see searchlights in the distance marking the presence of Luftwaffe bombers hitting a factory and town several miles away. as he breaks ground he can see the large fires left by the German incendiaries, the glow is large and vivid against the night sky from miles away.

As the pilot turns on course to join the bomber stream and passes the coast he can see large AA bursts over a shipyard along with a single searchlight as the guns track outbound medium altitude German bombers.

Even though you took off in clear weather fog and low clouds are now forming mid channel as the weather worsens during your flight East..

As you near the French coast searchlights begin to probe the night and you can see a British warship in the near distance shelling some target in the night. Vivid star shells illuminate the surface battle but it is too far away to determine what is going on.

Suddenly and shortly after passing the coast German AA guns armed with AA flare shells appear and illuminate bombers ahead of you in the stream.

Then .................................................. ..:icon_lol:

O-1

[O-1Driver]

Here is a daylight example.

As an Allied fighter bomber in France pilot you are starting your engine in the revetment area as the fuel truck pulls away. You are tail end Charlie in your group and the others are taxing out for takeoff. A C-47 is taking off ahead of the fighters. two more C-47s are passing over at low altitude as they begin swinging out for their downwind landing leg, watch out for them as you near the runway for departure.

You will be departing with a left crosswind today of five knots so be sure and input some rudder before adding power and beginning your takeoff roll. Left aileron and right rudder will insure a good track down the runway.

It is after D-Day and the Germans are in full retreat, your mission today is to attack German vehicles and troops in the vicinity of a major cross roads.

After takeoff and only a few miles North East of your airfield you can see a French town that bore the brunt of a major offensive by Allied tanks. Many burning buildings are evident and large areas of drifting smoke cover the area. In the fields north of town near a tree line a pair of burning Tiger tanks and several other smoking vehicles give testament to the ferocity of the battle.

Some miles away to the left of your course line heavy explosions can be seen and the immediate area is heavily covered with shell craters.

You pass over a destroyed column of German tanks and armored vehicles that are still exploding as fires ignite the fuel and remaining ammunition. Heavy black and gray smoke is drifting across the ground from the vehicles located on the road.

Your target is a group of 88mm guns that are shelling Allied tanks moving across a large field. The German 88s are taking a heavy toll of the Allied armor and a single lone Tiger is adding to the mayhem from his hidden position inside a damaged building.

Heavy low level German AA fire is coming from up at you from several German 37mm guns and the large green golfball tracers look huge as they pass your wind shield.

As you swing out for your first run on the 88s you can see a flight of British aircraft pounding additional targets to the west.

Suddenly you spot a lone Storch flying low over the trees.......................................

O-1

[ndicki]

My favourite involves getting caught on the airstrip (Anywhere on Malta's a good one) with your pants down - starting up your Spit V and taxying out as the first wave of SM.79s unload on your airfield, things going off everywhere, major flap on, vehicles getting away from the parked aircraft, ack-ack banging off at everything in sight, and you're careering down the strip trying to avoid the craters and get off as a flight of Macchis comes tearing out of the sun shooting at you... If you want QC, you've got it. Staying alive on one of these is a major challenge! Paradoxically, CFS2 does this better as a rule. CFS3 is cantankerous, and the absence of triggers means you can't "plant" bombs to go off at interesting moments, among other things. You have to rely on the AI enemy actually to drop things, and you know what they can be like.

If anybody wants to tell me how to trigger an explosion in CFS3 - when for example the enemy flight enters a certain area, whether they bomb or not - I'd be thrilled to bits. So probably would my wingman... One thing I used to do was get a bomb to "fall" just as I cleared the runway...

[O-1Driver]

My favourite involves getting caught on the airstrip (Anywhere on Malta's a good one) with your pants down - starting up your Spit V and taxying out as the first wave of SM.79s unload on your airfield, things going off everywhere, major flap on, vehicles getting away from the parked aircraft, ack-ack banging off at everything in sight, and you're careering down the strip trying to avoid the craters and get off as a flight of Macchis comes tearing out of the sun shooting at you... If you want QC, you've got it. Staying alive on one of these is a major challenge! Paradoxically, CFS2 does this better as a rule. CFS3 is cantankerous, and the absence of triggers means you can't "plant" bombs to go off at interesting moments, among other things. You have to rely on the AI enemy actually to drop things, and you know what they can be like.

If anybody wants to tell me how to trigger an explosion in CFS3 - when for example the enemy flight enters a certain area, whether they bomb or not - I'd be thrilled to bits. So probably would my wingman... One thing I used to do was get a bomb to "fall" just as I cleared the runway...

Nigel that sounds excellent for sure with great immersion

I am headed out for the afternoon but when I get back in we will use your questiuon as the first item as a "How To" in ETO. It can easily be accomplished with the current ETO install.

Steve

[ndicki]

Sounds good - I think this will be a very productive thread! Good thinking there. Another thing I used to use in CFS2 was radio calls generated by a reduction in the capability of an aircraft; or to put it bluntly, when one or two (but far from all, hence the problem) aircraft went down, you'd get a screamer. A different one each time, so not what I did with the pilot kill effect. Generated by the status of the aircraft in question dropping below a certain percentage. Now if you can do that too, I'll start believing in Father Christmas! It can be used in all sorts of ways, not just for radio calls, of course.

[middle]

If you guys wou;ld like I can stick this one...let me know....mid

[Led Zeppelin]

For me, there are a few things that are really important for immersion:

1- briefing / debriefing sections.
I like to have as much details as posible, especially for historical missions (squadrons involved, pilots names when possible...). I also like to have details of what happened in the real mission in the debriefing section (not in the briefing section, this is an immersion killer), this is much better than "Godd job" or "Better luck next time". For me, this means that the mission builder has made deep researches, this part can take much more time than building the mission itself.
A historically accurate frontline is also an important item. This is very, very long to do but a good briefing text with an historical frontline then, the immersion begins before take off and the mission is much more immersive and pleasant.

2- historical accuracy is a major point for me, I don't really enjoy what if missions. Sometimes I do but it's rare. What really kills the immersion for me are things like: Emils that intercept B17's in 1945, Spitfire MkXIV defendig Malta, Do17 over Normandy in 1944 or things like that.
Sometimes, what I do is changing the skins of some aircrafts just to play one mission if I find skins with historical markings (this is what I do when I fly the Clostermann mission set for exemple).
Talking about skins, what a really hate is D Day stripes in 1943, that's completely kills the immersion for me.

[Phenozo]

What would you say a good scale would be to use when representing large historical encounters...

Say there was 200-300 total aircraft in the actual formations that participated.

How many aircraft should one aircraft represent, given the limitation considerations of x,y, and z?

Proper scaling like this really connot be done without adversely affecting formations and tactics drastically, so,

What is the judgement call here?

Keep those missions parameters within the scope of what CFS3 and it's expansions can represent?

And given that, what is the object numbers limitation a mission can reach? Is it 128, or is that just aircraft?

[HouseHobbit]

Hey all these do sound like fun,
Would anyone mind if I build these missions??

Your ideas have got me thinking..
If No one would object to this i'll get some along these lines started..
For malta (MAW) and BOB in ETO
Just asking..
With Led Zeppelin's Help I think I can come up with a few historical Missions for everyone also..

[O-1Driver]

You can create simulated bomb explosions and or damage on an airfiled either during takeoff or arrival back at base.

In the drop down menu for facilities are three facilities, "Vehicle mine", "tank_mine" and "bomb_explosions". These can be used separately or together. These facilities are invisible and will show no tags when used in missions. In order to create damage to a facility, factory or airfield select the bomb_explosion and code it as German if placing on an Allied facility.

The bomb_explosion is actually an invisible large caliber gun which will target buildings and facilities within it's range. It will destroy any building or facility it targets such as hangars or warehouses.

The vehicle mine is also invisible and will target any vehicle (not tracked) within a limited range. It will shoot thru buildings in order to focus on a jeep or truck.

The "tank mine" will attack any tracked vehicle including tanks and half tracks.

The invisible facilities will actually destroy moving vehicles and other aircraft taking off around the player.

These facilities can be used as direct placement or as spawned facilities. To simulate a takeoff under fire do the following in mission building:
1. Place a formation of enemy bombers timed to arrive directly over the airfield as the player is taking off. These aircraft will "drop" the bombs that will explode all around the player.Tactical or high flying aircraft may be used. Multiple aircraft formations can be used. Aircraft Spawns are not recommended in this application.
2. The desired effect can be accomplished by placing one or more of the Bomb explosions or vehicle mines on the friendly facility until the desired damage is achieved. Use caution as the explosions are real and can kill the player before he is able to complete his takeoff.

The bomb explosions and vehicle mine can be used as a spawned facility to cause recent destruction to an airfield as the player approaches or to factories or other facilities as the player approaches them during the mission. This way a player can view burning shipyards, airfields or factories at any point in the mission.

All of the stock facilities in ETO have long burning fires and smoke and you can use timing to reach the desired result in visible damage or to have the player attacked while in the landing pattern.

The facilities can be used with mission target facility and the range at which they spawn is controlled by 8K, 10K 12K etc.

O-1

[O-1Driver]

If you guys wou;ld like I can stick this one...let me know....mid
Thanks Mid but normally when something gets a sticky it is the kiss of death for active continuing posts. I would like to see this one continue as a living thread unless it gets to big and complicated.

thanks

Steve

[O-1Driver]

What would you say a good scale would be to use when representing large historical encounters...

Say there was 200-300 total aircraft in the actual formations that participated.

How many aircraft should one aircraft represent, given the limitation considerations of x,y, and z?

Proper scaling like this really connot be done without adversely affecting formations and tactics drastically, so,

What is the judgement call here?

Keep those missions parameters within the scope of what CFS3 and it's expansions can represent?

And given that, what is the object numbers limitation a mission can reach? Is it 128, or is that just aircraft?

Maybe Loic will answer this one as I have never done any large formation missions.

Steve

[O-1Driver]

I agree with Loic that when a specific historical event is being duplicated, every attempt shold be made to get all the details as accurate as possible, sometimes this may mean new skins just for a specific mission.

I also think it is important to remember that there were hundreds of thousands of sorties flown every day during the war that are not chronicled in aviation history. Those missions were none the less exciting and dangerous to the chaps involved in them. I would like to see a lot more "what if" missions built that represent sorties flown that are correct for time and place but are not part of recorded history or significant on a large scale. examples of this are:

Anti shipping missions, ground attack missions, bomber intercept missions and so on. I have a friend here in town who flew P-40s in the Pacific and saw active combat but the missions he flew were not published as historical in nature. None the less they were very real and dangerous to him.

Lets have some fun with mission building in ETO and be tolerant of every ones efforts and give encouragement and help to the new guys coming along.:)

I don't have an answer to everything in MB and there are a lot of talented members like Loic and Nigel that can also provide a lot of answers and help. Nonato and House Hobbit are coming along raidly and should also be a great source of help for newbies.
O-1

[Talon]

I know this is for ETO but I'm more a PTO person and do have some surprises for you.How does a night landing on Carriers sound to you? Night fighters protecting the fleet or PBY's attacking IJN Carriers at night before the Battle of Santa Cruz grab you?How about P-39's and F4F3's at Henderson?I even have a What if which could interest you.I have alot of things planned for thr PTO update missions wise with accurate bomb loads for the planes and some new skins by Bravo for what I'm working on.

Steve doesn't know it yet but he's going to do some new effects for some ships.:jump:


Talon

[O-1Driver]

I know this is for ETO but I'm more a PTO person and do have some surprises for you.How does a night landing on Carriers sound to you? Night fighters protecting the fleet or PBY's attacking IJN Carriers at night before the Battle of Santa Cruz grab you?How about P-39's and F4F3's at Henderson?I even have a What if which could interest you.I have alot of things planned for thr PTO update missions wise with accurate bomb loads for the planes and some new skins by Bravo for what I'm working on.

Steve doesn't know it yet but he's going to do some new effects for some ships.:jump:
Talon

Al, It is so good to have you back! without a doubt you are "The Man" with regard to mission building in PTO. Looking forward to working with you on this next update.

Steve

[Talon]

Steve,I'll be back to working on PTO in about a month.With some of the new stuff already in the works I think PTO fans will be greatly surprised.


Talon

[MajorMagee]

Steve,I'll be back to working on PTO in about a month.With some of the new stuff already in the works I think PTO fans will be greatly surprised.


Talon

If there's anything I can do the help the PTO Team please feel free to ask.

[FAFL342Pascal]

What would you say a good scale would be to use when representing large historical encounters...

Say there was 200-300 total aircraft in the actual formations that participated.

How many aircraft should one aircraft represent, given the limitation considerations of x,y, and z?

What is the judgement call here?

Keep those missions parameters within the scope of what CFS3 and it's expansions can represent?

And given that, what is the object numbers limitation a mission can reach? Is it 128, or is that just aircraft?

My biggest is 72 allied aircraft vs 32 axis (and spawns). All that over multiple targets around Calais with flak make your fps drastically go down, and sometime stop.

Think also that real bombrun didnt have the efficiency of our CFS3 simulation. A flight of 4 bombers is enough to destroy a submarine yard, where in real hundreds heavy bombers in many pass didnt succeed to destroy a single uboot hangar (but all around, including the town) (st nazaire, Lorient).

I pay attention on briefing notes... i noticed ledzepp remark :i will pay some more attention to debrief that are by now "good job".... lol.

[ndicki]

(Meanwhile, I can't do missions for ETO simply because it ran correctly as a new 1.3 install, but it runs no more. It didn't appreciate something I did to it, but I can't for the life of me work out what! But I'm a Desert Rat at heart anyway, so I'm going to try and import all the goodies Steve mentioned above into MAW in any case. The problem of course is that it won't be general public... And given the number of **** answers I've been having to give of late, no, I'm not going to do a MAW upgrade package!) (Well, we'll see. But not now. Too much work in real life.)

[Pat Pattle]

But I'm a Desert Rat at heart anyway, so I'm going to try and import all the goodies Steve mentioned above into MAW in any case. The problem of course is that it won't be general public.

I think at one time there was an idea to do just this as a sort of MAW upgrade Nigel but it wasn't to be for some reason or other. I can't see why it couldn't be done as an add-on pack though, just like any other mod?

Great thread btw folks, the mysterious workings of the MB need exposing for numpties like me to use!

[ndicki]

Clive, I thought the upgrade was going to be a total revision - including the actual sandbox, gsl, etc. That admittedly did die the death for a number of rather complicated reasons, but there's no reason whatsoever that I can see why there can't be an effects upgrade. Obviously Steve would be the best one for this, as they're his effects and he knows what goes with what, but he's apparently a bit busy!

[Led Zeppelin]

I never build missions with too many aircrafts for two major reasons:

1) FPS hits

2) less fun. In the Memphis Bell campaign (Fire Power) there are many bombers and I was not attacked by fighters so often as most of the time, they used to attack oher streams. I've rebuild all of them. Now, there is only the player box (8 aircrafts) and missions are much more challenging.
Moreover, it is the same to have 100 bombers vs 50 fighters than 8 vs 4.... except FPS hit.

[HouseHobbit]

I have several missions i have built with as many as 250 aircraft involved..
I use AI to keep the FPS up, and have NO problems with flying them..
It quite a sight to jump into a gaggle of aircraft like this and a lot of fun..
I always run out of ammo before i run out of targets..

I have found it does Make a Big difference which aircraft are used, some are FPS hogs and need to be avoided in these kinds of missions

[loverboy1]

I WILL GO PRIVATE ON TUTORIAL WITH A MEMBER SOON AND SEE IN MONTHS WHAT I CAN PRODCUE IF, this works out well and i can actually make a decent mission with all the goodies then a formatt can be built around this ..CALL IT

"MISSIONS FOR DUMBIES " im the ginea pig for this .....and if joshua can pull this off in months then anyone can trust me ........


stay tuned


loverboy1

[HouseHobbit]

Bravo LB..
I am very pleased to hear you are jumping into mission building..
This is Great..
I have been building them since the CFS days 15 years or so I gress.
And I always find something new to try..
It is a learning experence for me each time..

[loverboy1]

oh forgot to meniton ....your the mentor for this , in another month or so ....lol ....



lb/joshua

[HouseHobbit]

No problem,
it will be the "Blind leading the Blind"..
But at lease it will be fun..
LOL..LOL..

[ndicki]

I can't get these bloody "mines" to work. I've imported them into MAW - most were there already - and set them up as German on a British airfield, my Hurricanes taking off while Macchi 200s meander aimlessly around while they try to remember what the order "Attack" means and if they should take it seriously (CFS2 really WAS better in this respect - I generally failed to get off the ground!) - but no banging and flashing down on the deck. Hmmf. And the joys of the CFS3 Mission Thrower-Togetherer. I refuse to call it a Mission Builder. That's what there was in CFS2. Another terrific step backward for MS to compensate for all the things that CFS3 does do better...

Edit - Cancel some of that - I hadn't imported the required guns xdps. But the Mission Thrower-Togetherer is still rubbish!

[O-1Driver]

To improve the action on the ground and create more realism for the player, ETO has taken the stock vehicles and greatly enhanced their effects. The smoke and fire from the vehicles last for a much longer time and "cookoff" effects with multiple delayed explosions now occur long after the tank is hit as fire reaches the remaining fuel and ammunition.

To create a column of damaged vehicles for the player to view on the ground do the following in MB.

1. Select any stock Allied or German vehicle for the column (only the stock vehicles have enhanced effects).
2. There are two new vehicles with specific and different explosions and they are the gas and ammo trucks.
3. Set the column of vehicles up either as direct or "by road" if you want the column to be static use a speed of .01 for both WP's and it will not move.
4. The Herringbone formation works well for vehicles and a 1.5 spread will place them along both sides of the road as a real column would be traveling.
5. After placing your vehicle column place the vehicle and tank mine facilities around the column and very near to it. The land mines have a limited range. Also the mine is oriented 360 degrees so those mines at the top of the column (North) should have a facility heading of 180 degrees to point the mine gun at the column. Same concept for East and west positions. For maimum effect alternate vehicle and tank mines to insure good coverage of the column.
6. Vehicle mines will only attack trucks, troops and non-tracked units. Tank mines will attack any tracked vehicle and armored personnel carriers.
7. When using the "by road" option the column may move from where you initially placed it on your MB map. If this happens you will need to relocate your mines to the new location by overflying them, pressing M.

Remember the cook off explosions will all happen within the first several minutes of the vehicles being damaged but the smoke and fire will last much longer. The stock vehicles also will show torn up earth beneath them along with a random charred ground effect. Also the smoke patterns are different between the APC's, tanks and trucks.

O-1

[ndicki]

I think I've got some testing to do...

[O-1Driver]

Quote
Edit - Cancel some of that - I hadn't imported the required guns xdps. But the Mission Thrower-Togetherer is still rubbish![/QUOTE]


Nigel, I think all of us will agree with you that the MB in CFS3 leaves much to be desired. It is a long time consuming process to place items on the map and requires countless trips back and forth between MB and test flying to get things to work properly.

I wish someone could take the basic MB and figure out a way to make it more user friendly and effective.

Steve

[Nonato]

Quote

I wish someone could take the basic MB and figure out a way to make it more user friendly and effective.

Steve


Steve

This is exactly what I think and have been praying for: a new MB!!! I guess the way it is now makes mission building much more a matter of transpiration than inspiration!!..:wavey:

Cheers

Non.

[ndicki]

Quote
Edit - Cancel some of that - I hadn't imported the required guns xdps. But the Mission Thrower-Togetherer is still rubbish!


Nigel, I think all of us will agree with you that the MB in CFS3 leaves much to be desired. It is a long time consuming process to place items on the map and requires countless trips back and forth between MB and test flying to get things to work properly.

I wish someone could take the basic MB and figure out a way to make it more user friendly and effective.

Steve[/QUOTE]

That is the most intelligent thing I've heard in this forum for a long, long time! :icon_lol: :applause:

[ndicki]

Honestly, though - after the beautiful, seamless piece of work they did for CFS2, where you can actually see all the buildings and scenery from above so you can position every element not on the map but directly into the scenery, and then fly it without exiting the MB... It was brilliant! So if somebody can build a whole new MB for CFS3 that does the same, the number and quality of missions would go shooting up!


Meanwhile, I've realised that just as there are fighter pilots and bomber pilots, so there are those who find one type of mission the most immersive, and those who find another type so. Steve clearly likes the long, careful bomber pilot approach, where you fly in onto the target from some distance, navigating carefully, etc, etc. I on the other hand, like being bounced while I'm on the runway... A very different style of mission!

[Nonato]

Quote
I wish someone could take the basic MB and figure out a way to make it more user friendly and effective.

Steve


Steve

Would it be so difficult to build another MB?

Non.

[O-1Driver]

Steve

Would it be so difficult to build another MB?

Non.

Nonato,

That would be way beyond my ability I am afraid.

Steve

[O-1Driver]

The ability to add burning towns, cities, factories both night and day will add realism to some missions.

For Night missions they will be important for:
1. Bomber stream pilots to see areas that have already been hit with incendiaries. The player will see the target and immediate area burning from previous strikes before he arrives.
2. The player will be able to observe towns and factories that have been hit by German bombers as he is departing or arriving back home.

For Daylight missions:
1. The player will be able to see areas of destruction such as Dunkirk or England while flying defensive CAP.
2. The burning towns and facilities can be used to create a feeling of the destruction of war when flying low level tactical fighter/bomber missions.

Facilities such as factories, airfields etc. can be destroyed by placing the facility "bomb_explosions directly on top of the facility you want to destroy. It will be burning and smoking by the time the player arrives on the scene.

For large areas of simulated destruction you can use the "Fire_storm" facilities which generate large areas of fire and smoke. The large fire storm will also provide flickering light up to higher altitudes where the aircraft can be seen by interceptors. These fire storm facilities should be placed directly on top of the terrain landscape towns and cities, or facilities in ETO.

ETO also provides a "burnable" town called ETO_town. This town can be placed anywhere a burnable city is needed. There is also a facility named "Docks" that is a large collection of warehouses normally see adjacent to ports and dock areas, these buildings are all burnable and burn and smoke fiercely.

There are also two facilities called Burning_Houses and Burning_Apartment that can be placed anywhere most normally on top of terrain buildings to simulate damage.

Finally there are several fire and smoke facilities that can be placed on top of other facilities or buildings. These range in size and height with the largest reaching several thousand feet in to the air. The large fire_smoke is used at Dunkirk and will reach above the low cloud layer.

All of the buildings and components in the stock facilities have been updated with new explosions and have long lasting fires and smoke damage. The refineries have spectacular damage effects now.

Attached is a picture of Dunkirk with the addition of some smoke and the Dock facility. The ETO_Town can also be seen.

O-1

[remcoc]

Hi Steve,

I haven't build much missions lately: the realworld takes much of my time. When is the European economy going to settle down?? http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon28.gif

Anyway: 2 questions regarding this thread.

1. How to start a mission not on the runway, but somewhere at an airfield? How to do this in the MB?

2. I allways hoped some-one could realise taxiing aircraft. I dream of Lancasters or Mosquitos lining up on the airfield with turning props while I'am taking off.
I asked the question before ont his forum. I saw a video based on the Korean add-on. In this video some jetfighters drove over the airfield. I was told that these were planes adapted to vehicles. But no futher help was given.

So I have the next questions:
a. is this allready possible in ETO?
b. If not: who has the skills to explain me how to do that?
c. Could this be done with propellorplanes to?

RemcoC

[Led Zeppelin]

1. How to start a mission not on the runway, but somewhere at an airfield? How to do this in the MB?
Not possible with the mission builder. You have to open the mission xml file and setup the first waypoint with the following parameters:
Type="turn"
Speed="0"
Alt="0.00"

The most diffucult thing is to setup the Lat-Lon accurately. Personnaly, I use to ride around an airfield with a vehicule and when I'm at the location I want the aircraft to be in the mission I'm building, I just note Lat-Lon values by pressing 'z'.



2. I allways hoped some-one could realise taxiing aircraft.
These missions exists in the "ETO FirePower USAAF HeavyBombers2" pack. You have to taxiing your B24 at night behind a lighted truck up to the runway in the 492nd BG missions (09-05-44 Crapetbagger OG Team Chistopher Mission for exemple).

[Nonato]

Not possible with the mission builder. You have to open the mission xml file and setup the first waypoint with the following parameters:
Type="turn"
Speed="0"
Alt="0.00"

The most diffucult thing is to setup the Lat-Lon accurately. Personnaly, I use to ride around an airfield with a vehicule and when I'm at the location I want the aircraft to be in the mission I'm building, I just note Lat-Lon values by pressing 'z'.


Hi LZ

Yeah, but have you already remarked how imprecise Lat/Lon can be using "z" or whatever other resource? Sometimes I have to spend many hours trying the best location for a facility with the MB. And the taxi or runaway lights, then? A true Job's work!! (Or Job's job?)

[Led Zeppelin]

absolutely, it's a real pain.

[BeauBrummie]

Not so much MB issues, but the CFS3 map, in translating real world locations to the sim. As we all know it's a very crude copy, but often target features are non-existant or very different, so historical missions are sometime difficult to position accurately. Classic for me was trying to find the dutch large supply canal for the target in one of my Hurricane IV missions. Eventually I found that there was no canal but a small stream/ small river.

But perhaps this enough of the negatives, which regular mission builders already know.

I too enjoy adding atmosphere to take offs and landings too and have already picked up some good tips and ideas mentioned here. I always try to have over flying aircraft and have other friendlies orbiting further out. The UK especially had a busy airspace. Ground activity in areas where you are not warping adds immersion too. I would like to see more non goal spawns for this.

[O-1Driver]

Hi Steve,

I haven't build much missions lately: the realworld takes much of my time. When is the European economy going to settle down?? http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon28.gif

Anyway: 2 questions regarding this thread.

1. How to start a mission not on the runway, but somewhere at an airfield? How to do this in the MB?

2. I allways hoped some-one could realise taxiing aircraft. I dream of Lancasters or Mosquitos lining up on the airfield with turning props while I'am taking off.
I asked the question before ont his forum. I saw a video based on the Korean add-on. In this video some jetfighters drove over the airfield. I was told that these were planes adapted to vehicles. But no futher help was given.
So I have the next questions:
a. is this allready possible in ETO?
b. If not: who has the skills to explain me how to do that?
c. Could this be done with propellorplanes to?
RemcoC

Here is a real easy way to start your aircraft anywhere on the airfield, that does not require any lat/longs.

Build your mission in MB and place the player aircraft near or over the airfield, use something slow to start with maybe an L-5 or Storch. You can change the aircraft later. It is easier to spot things on the ground at 80 mph than 200.

Next take an easily recognizable vehicle that will be different from anything else on the airfield and place it on the airfield using MB. When you do the WPs be sure and use .01 as the speed so the vehicle does not move.

Fly the mission and then see where you have placed the vehicle and the direction it is pointed. You can also place invisible facilities around to help give you position and bearing information on that horrible MB map.

Open up MB and move the staging vehicle in the direction and distance you need to locate it properly. The key is to have some reference items on the MB map to use as a basis for relocating the staging vehicle.

Once you have the staging vehicle where you want it and it is pointed in the right direction, simply replace it with the player aircraft. With practice you can accomplish the placement pretty fast and with only a few test flights.

Be sure you have the rest of the mission completely built before you start fooling around with the player aircraft or you will waste time editing the mission in notepad.

BTW it is possible to make some of the other aircraft taxi slowly with their lights on during night missions near the runway. It dose not work for all but will for some. I know the Storch will do it as I have done it in missions.
Steve

[O-1Driver]

As mentioned before the key to locating anything in MB is to have points of reference. The MB map is not of much use so I make my own points of reference. They can be the player aircraft wps, staging facilities, ships or facilities randomly placed near where you are working and these will give you distance and bearing to work from.

It is important to remember that when you zoom in and reduce the scale of the map in MB that a one inch move of an item is much less than the distance moved with a larger scale. Use the same scale each time when positioning the item or you will drive yourself crazy. For example if you are using a MB map set at 3.0 miles and you move something 1/2 inch it will move a much greater distance than it will if you are using .6 miles.

If you are trying to locate something near a coastline pepper the area with several different small ships pointed different directions. Then when you test fly in MB you can see where they are, fly your aircraft to the exact location you want the item located and then press M. Hit pause and then write down the direction you need to move the item and the distance in inches from the scale of your M map screen. Or something like move item right halfway between the PT boat and the cargo I staged". Also you will learn how to rotate the facility the correct number of degrees to make it line up.

Remember the top of your MB map is always North. You will learn to estimate the angles and direction you need to move with practice.

Steve

[Barnstorm]

I have not had the time befoe now to get into mission building, but I will gladly offer my time/talents as a software tester to anyone strapped for time/resources. I have done SF testing and writing error reports professionally (MCSE, A+) and would be honored to be of assistance, if needed.

[remcoc]

I have not had the time befoe now to get into mission building, but I will gladly offer my time/talents as a software tester to anyone strapped for time/resources. I have done SF testing and writing error reports professionally (MCSE, A+) and would be honored to be of assistance, if needed.

Kind offer: I will keep it in mind. Time is one of my scrce resources nowadays!

RemcoC

[HouseHobbit]

I an doing a Airfield mission for you Nigel as I type this..

You will be jumped by the germans, and have to taxi your bird to the runway.. And Get up,
During this the Hun will be pounding your airbase, and your wingmen are Catching H**L also..
I'll send it to you when finished..
Let me Know if there is a special aircraft you want to fly in this..

[mongoose]

lets keep this current!

[grizzly50]

:kilroy::bump::d