Calling Cody Coyote!

[Skywolf]

I posted this before the crach but didn't write it down.How do you get multiple aircraft in a single squadron during a mission?

Thanks!

[Jagdflieger]

Skywolf,

There should be an explanation in the tutorial posted by Cody on how to do it. It's just a matter of editing the .mis file for the mission.

The tutorial is here in the library.

[Skywolf]

Thanks, But it wasn't in there. I will try e-mailing him.

[sc7500]

While we're at it, here's a copy of a posting from last year by CC. IMO, once you know how to change plane types in a flight, the next logical step is to increase the number !

Enjoy
SC
:kilroy:
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Flights of More than Eight Aircraft
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I saw on another forum where someone asked if it was possible to increase the number of enemy planes in Quick Combat beyond eight. That isn't possible at this time, but it is possible to increase the number of planes in your flight or an AI flight to more than eight in any mission that you fly.

It requires a fair amount of hand editing, but if you read the chapter on hand editing in my Mission Building Handbook you'll be OK. Here's a simplified explanation of the process:

Mission Containing Only the Player's Flight - The process is a little simplier if your mission only has a player flight.

Begin by locating the units in the player's flight. This should be easy, they will most likely start with [unit.0] and run through [unit.7]. Using the first seven as an example, add as many additional units to the formation as you would like. In this example I show you the last of the original player's wingmen (unit.7) and I've added three more:

[unit.7]
id=9162
type_id=3954
name=%name_string.7%
allegiance=3
skill=3
aggression=2
payload=0

[unit.8]
id=9163
type_id=3954
name=%name_string.8%
allegiance=3
skill=3
aggression=2
payload=0

[unit.9]
id=9164
type_id=3954
name=%name_string.9%
allegiance=3
skill=3
aggression=2
payload=0

[unit.10]
id=9165
type_id=3954
name=%name_string.10%
allegiance=3
skill=3
aggression=2
payload=0

Note that the unit number, ID number, and name_string number must increase by one each time. The name_string number should always match the unit number.

Next scroll down to the formation section. You will need to add an additional line for each plane that you added to the flight.

unit_id_position.0=9155,0,0.0,0.0,0.0
unit_id_position.1=9156,0,-300.0,-600.0,0.0
unit_id_position.2=9157,0,300.0,-600.0,150.0
unit_id_position.3=9158,0,600.0,-1200.0,150.0
unit_id_position.4=9159,0,1200.0,-1200.0,300.0
unit_id_position.5=9160,0,900.0,-1800.0,300.0
unit_id_position.6=9161,0,1500.0,-1800.0,450.0
unit_id_position.7=9162,0,1800.0,-2400.0,450.0
unit_id_position.8=9163,0,-100.0,-100.0,0.0
unit_id_position.9=9164,0,-200.0,-500.0,0.0
unit_id_position.10=9165,0,200.0,-500.0,150.0

In the example above you can see where I've added our three planes. Make sure that the unit and id numbers match those that you entered above. Also, make sure that the relative position information does not match that of any shown in the original flight or you'll have two planes trying to start in the same spot causing those planes to crash at mission startup.

Finally, scroll down to the bottom of the mission file and add new name_string lines for your additional wingmen.

"name_string.0"=Argo
"name_string.1"=Argo-1
"name_string.2"=Argo-2
"name_string.3"=Argo-3
"name_string.4"=Argo-4
"name_string.5"=Argo-5
"name_string.6"=Argo-6
"name_string.7"=Argo-7
"name_string.8"=Argo-8
"name_string.9"=Argo-9
"name_string.10"=Argo-10

Save the mission and the next time you fly you'll have a flight of ten instead of eight.

In theory you could use this method to create a flight of one hundred B-17's all controlled by you. They would follow your commands and bomb the targets you bracket. They would also turn with you and try to take off and land with you. I say "in theory" because I haven't tried doing a flight that large, but technically I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Mission Containing Player's Flight and AI Flight - The problem is a little more complex when you have AI planes in your mission. Even if you only want to increase the size of the player's flight you must still modify the AI flight information to get this technique to work.

Using our example above we'll say that our mission also included a flight of Zeros. After you've made the changes described above to the player's flight, locate the list of the units in the AI flight.

[unit.8]
id=9163
type_id=3806
name=%name_string.8%
allegiance=4
skill=2
aggression=2
payload=0

[unit.9]
id=9164
type_id=3806
name=%name_string.9%
allegiance=4
skill=2
aggression=2
payload=0

Note that the original unit and id numbers of the AI flight match the newly added player wingmen. These old numbers must be changed. Renumber the AI flight starting with the next numbers in sequence from your modified player flight.

[unit.11]
id=9166
type_id=3806
name=%name_string.11%
allegiance=4
skill=2
aggression=2
payload=0

[unit.12]
id=9167
type_id=3806
name=%name_string.12%
allegiance=4
skill=2
aggression=2
payload=0

Since we stopped numbering our new player's wingmen at [unit.10] and id=9165, begin numbering your AI flight at [unit.11] and id=9166. It's simple really, all of the planes (units) must be numbered in sequence. Spend a few minutes studying the format and it will come to you. Make sure that you also change the number_string to match the new id numbers.

Finally, drop down to the bottom of the mission and add the correct name_string information for the AI flight.

"name_string.8"=Argo-8
"name_string.9"=Argo-9
"name_string.10"=Argo-10
"name_string.11"=Abaniko
"name_string.12"=Abaniko-1

The more other units you have the more complex it becomes but if you stay focused you can make the modifications and increase your formation sizes. Make sure you follow all of the steps above to insure success.

I've attached a couple of images of a flight of 16 Martlets. I don't think you can see them all in any one shot, but it gives you the idea. I've also attached two PDF documents; one is a simple mission with 8 Wildcats and 8 Zeros, the other is the same mission modified to have 16 Wildcats. In the modified version all of the new information that has been added or changed is in bold so that you can see it easily. If you wanted to, you could copy the text from the PDF document into Notepad and save it as a mission file for use in CFS2.

As with may other hand edits, if you open the mission in Mission Builder and make any changes you will lose all of your modifications and the mission will revert back to just seven wingmen.

Have fun and if you have any questions either PM me here or email me at cody_coyote2000@hotmail.com

[Tango_Romeo]

Thanks, But it wasn't in there.



.....Having Your Wingmen All Fly Different Planes, page 136. :173go1:

[Jagdflieger]

Skywolf,

Go to page 136 for the full explanation.

Whoops! TR you beat me to it. Thanks for the help.

[Cody Coyote]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. I'm on the road and mostly away from all Internet access.

I got an email from Skywolf and he was after how to increase the size of the filghts above eight and not how to add different planes. I posted that here after the Handbook had been released. Unfortunately when I tried a search for it I couldn't find it. It might be a victim of the crash.

Thanks sc7500 for posting my original post as I am without my PC and unable to get a copy. Thanks also to the rest of you guys for "covering" for me and trying to help skywolf. This real life stuff sure makes it tough to keep up with CFS2!

[Skywolf]

.....Having Your Wingmen All Fly Different Planes, page 136. :173go1:

That's not what I meant. I know how do that, but not how make a squadron have 30 planes.

[Skywolf]

Ok, I have that copied down. Now I hopefully won't loose it! Thanks for all your help guys!

[Blue Devil]

Hey SW, ...

The prob w/ a thirty(30) AC squadron is that ALL the AI will follow and protect the leader, ...and come after you if you attack him, ...like twenty nine(29) wingmen, ...not very realistic.

Suggestion:

Find out what the SMALLIST flight unit was for the A/C/nationality/time period, ...and use multiples of that.

i.e.
If ya want a thirty(30) A/C squadron of "A6M Zero's" in PTO '43, ...

IJN in '43 used three(3) A/C sections, ...w/ three(3) sections to a flight, ...w/ three(3) flights to a squadron, ...for a total of twenty seven(27) A/C.

This also allows you to change the skill level of each flight, ...like two(2) "Ace", four(4) "Vet's", and three(3) "Rookies".

Or you can hand edit each section to reflect a mix.

For USN/USMC/USAAF, ...who used four(4) A/C sections, ...I'll break'em up into two(2) A/C divisions, ...a leader and a wingman.

This GREATLY improves the random dynamic aspect of a bounce/fur-ball, ...small units of leaders and wingmen, ...of different skill levels, ...doin' different maneuvers, ...and ya never know who's on you "six".

[Skywolf]

I was thinking of using it more for bomber formations, since they keep their course. (Mostly)

[Blue Devil]

Works for bombers too, ...

IJN '43 used a "Vic of Vic's", ...three(3) A/C shotai formations in a triangle (shotai) flight formation, ...at slighty varried altitudes.

For U.S., ...use four(4) A/C sections in staggered formations stacked at 500ft intervals for several thousand (2-3,000) ft.

[Tango_Romeo]

How do you get multiple aircraft in a single squadron during a mission?

...is answer the question asked. :d

[Skywolf]

Anyone know what formation the Germans used?

[Jagdflieger]

Bombers or fighters?

[hewman100]

Luftwaffe bombers were commonly formated in 'vics' of three or five with the leading vic at the the lowest altitude and the following one stepped back at higher altitude. These were usually then together in Gruppes (12 to 15 a/c IIRC)

The basic German fighter formation was the 'Schwarm',what the Allies refer to as the 'Finger Four'. This could then be split down into two 'Rotte' of leader and wingman.

[Skywolf]

Thanks Hewman! I am going to try this out.

[miamieagle]

This are the Formation available thru the Builder



1 .The inverted V formation

A great formation for bomber flights and escorts for many reasons: The slot to the front is open and the center is open and the center is where the bombers should be with escorts surrounding them: this allows for easy departure of the escorts to attack enemy forces that are attacking the bombers yet also allows bomber cover because not all escorts are needed to protect the bomber or bombers and it will help to ensure that the bombers do their job. Of course this all depends on the number of escorts and bombers that you have, but none the less, it is a proven and effective method to use.
2.The W or twin V

This works in much the same way and is primarily used when you have 3 or more bombers for each bomber is in the slot;1 in each of the V's with them being surrounded by escorts.
3.The I formation

This works quite well with at least 1 bomber and 3 to 4 escorts. Two escorts take the lead with the bomber in the middle and two escorts bring up the rear. If enemy attacks from the front then those 2 escorts break and engage while the 2 from the rear form the I by one going up front and one remaining to the rear and visa-versa if they attack from the rear. But at the same time one from the front and one from the rear can break and attack just as well and still maintain the I with the bomber no matter where the enemy attacks from.
4.High-Low wingman tactics

work real well in any situation. If the wingman that is low gets into trouble or has a bogie on his 6 then the high man can dive on him from above and still be able to keep his manoeuvrability at the same time; the trick is to make sure that u lead your shots just enough ahead so the enemy plane actually runs into the line of fire and that u are more likely to hit his engine and do severe damage to it for sure; once this is done then it's just a matter of seconds before your counter part is turned and on him as well. This tactic also works well with bomb runs. The trick to this is to maintain a distance of not more than 900 to 1000ft away from your wingman at all times and if necessary speed up or slow down to maintain that distance. Even if you crash into the attacking aircraft and your wingman gets away safe then you have still done your job and that is to protect your wingman at all cost.
5.Counter and Strike

This is when wingmen are flying in relatively close formation; usually about 150 to 250 ft apart either by being to the rear and to the left or right of the lead pilot. Yet even in this tactic it is always best to be just a little below the lead pilot of which I will explain. Lets say that the lead pilot is 200ft to your left front and u are approximately 25ft below him, this would put u 225ft behind him so to speak because u have to count that distance as well in order to know exactly where each is. If u have an enemy come up on your 6 it then will be an easy kill for either of you to take out the enemy plane. The lead pilot breaks left and u break right in a hard turn and maintain that turn till u see your lead pilot; the lead will be doing the same thing and usually u can catch the enemy between u two and if for some reason he isn't then the closest pilot engages with the other in close proximity to cover the one who is engaging and if the lead or the one engaging over-shoots then that puts u in a position to take the enemy out as well. The trick to any wingman tactic is to maintain eye contact and communication with your wingman at all times and to practice wingman tactics as often as possible with all members of your squad so that u can learn what to expect from each pilot and know what the other is going to do in any situation.
6.Never, never

Never pull up to do a loop and someone on your 6. It leaves you too open for hits and always cuts your airspeed a great deal. If u think that you need to pull a loop then this is what I suggest that u do and will aid in making that loop as fast and short as possible. Use your pitch elevators up key to it's max, pull back on stick and use cowl flaps to full open and adjust mixture to 50%.All this will help to ensure that u don't stall out and end up getting full of holes and will allow u to turn and adjust to put u on the enemies 6 allot quicker and possibly take him out before he can get u. Just hope that your wingman is there to aid in making sure that you don't by the farm and that the enemy is the 1st to go down.
7.The Y formation

Used for bomber escort or bomb runs themselves which is 1 of my favorite formations to fly. Reason being is that the bottom leg of the Y is always used as your attack aircraft and the bomber or bombers are in the slot or the opening of the V which allows them to continue without interference to carry out their mission. This formation takes from 6 to 10 aircraft to form properly but is the best formation there is for escorting bombers to their target.
8.Line formation

The title throws most people because as u look at the formation it appears that everyone is in a straight line but really aren't. It's actually somewhat like the V formation and looks like the V formation from above or from below but just by looking at it from head on it appears to be just a line of planes. Put 3 to 4 planes in a line up front (side by side) at approx. 3 to 400ft apart, then line up 2 to 3 planes in the slots at approx. the same distance apart. As the enemy gets closer the planes in the slots break and engage while the remainder keeps a steady course and carries out their mission.
9.X formation

As u can c there a 4 slots in this formation which is suitable for the use of 3 to 4 bombers, one in each of the slots surrounded by fighter escorts. Now depending on which side the enemy is attacking from determines which group of fighter will engage the enemy and that decision has to be made by the commanding officer as to which group will do what. But it is an excellent formation when u have a group of 3 or 4 bombers to escort and is very effective against any enemy force. In this formation though there is 1 draw-back; the bombers cannot fire their guns while the escorts are still in formation due to possibly hitting your own escorts, so this has to be taken into consideration as well. These formations are by no means easy to do without continuous practice for airspeed and distance has to be maintained at all times other-wise they are not as effective as they normally would be.
10.The over and under formation

Put 2 to 3 bombers in the center at approx. 400ft apart; put 3 fighters above at about the same distance from the bombers and themselves and the same for below the bombers. Anything coming in high the high group engages and the same for those that are below. Which ever way the enemy attacks the bombers and the rest of the group continue on with their mission and the others will join when enemy have been taken out.
11.Wing scouts

They deploy on both sides of the group at approx. 800 to 1000ft. left and right or can be front and rear in which case it is left up to the wing commander how to deploy them. Any either case; they are not to engage the enemy but are there to locate and report back to the group commander number of planes direction of travel and speed; at that time they may rejoin the group or keep an eye on the enemy and report periodically to the wing commander if things change and can be used a backup defense if need be or can be used as the primary attack team in which case if they are deployed to do so then they will more than likely have to form up and work as a team to accomplish and carry out their orders.
12.The Box

4 fighters flying in a box type formation;1 left,1 right and 1 behind each of those 2 at approx. 4 to 600ft. apart leaving the center open. This also works if u want to protect your wing commander for he can be placed in the center of the box, thus he is protected on all sides and should not engage the enemy but should gain altitude and only assist if a pilot is in serious trouble other wise he should help his wingmen by telling them their targets to engage, who's on their 6 and so forth. Many will disagree with this and think or say that the commander is a coward when in fact he's not. he's the commander for many reasons but primarily because of his knowledge in fighter tactics and so forth and excepts full responsibility for all his actions. In many instances the commander will usually lead the way in an attack but statistics show that if the commander gets downed then the wing is usually at a loss as to what to do or how to do it in order to get the job done; at least this is the case with most new pilots or new wing members for they lack the leadership and experience to carry the mission through.
13.Team-work

Is a MUST and must be carried out as so. NO ONE pilot can carry the load alone without help no matter who he or she is. Working together as a team increases your chances of winning for the whole team wins. Even if you lose and you worked together as a team then you still win because you did what you were suppose to do (worked as team) and it only means that you were out-classed and know that you need more practice as a team is all. Never think that you can't lose because you usually become too cocky and think you are invincible and start to make one mistake after another and will usually lead to a hard-downfall and a very rude awaking. Always remember this, no matter how good u think u are that there is always someone just a little bit better than u. If u always put forth 110% of yourself and u still lose then still feel proud for u have given it your best and no-one can fault you for that no matter who it is. Everyone makes mistakes but some learn from them while others do not and learning from them will do allot more good than not.

this Information can be found here http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_formation.htm