A different take on Led Zepplin ...

[Snuffy]

J7_T095ja78

D'yer Mak'r

[Ken Stallings]

Good music is good in any form. Besides, this makes a perfect circle, since most Led Zeppelin songs were blues in origin.

Robert Plant and Jimmy Page both are really blues artists in their souls.

Cheers,

Ken

[cheezyflier]

more like blues plagarists, since they used many peoples work without paying royalties and often not even giving credit. not that i don't dig their music. but that's the truth, look it up and see.

[tigisfat]

more like blues plagarists, since they used many peoples work without paying royalties and often not even giving credit. not that i don't dig their music. but that's the truth, look it up and see.


I think the more accurate way to describe what they did would be to say that they made new arrangements of many traditional blues songs without giving credit or paying people that made the songs the most famous. Some songs, such as Robert Johnson songs, had noone to pay royalties too. There were probably hundreds of people making money off many blues songs, and most never paid royalty. Led Zep was and is just an easy target.

(Being a musician) I could venture to say that anyone who plays blues is a copycat. There are only so many old blues songs and arrangements. To invent something new would be to leave the genre entirely.

[cheezyflier]

(Being a musician) I could venture to say that anyone who plays blues is a copycat. There are only so many old blues songs and arrangements. To invent something new would be to leave the genre entirely.

that's the excuse george thorogood uses, and i call b.s. on him too. if it wasn't for john lee hooker he wouldn't even have a career. there are guys out there doing blues, and blues-based music that are producing new stuff. using the 12 bar format or doing the basic train shuffle isn't what makes them copycats. it's resting directly on someone else's work that is what i mean. i play guitar. i don't write my own stuff anymore. i just like to sit down and play to a cd.
if i play for somebody, i don't play "gator country" and tell people i wrote it.
nothin personal tig, i just disagree. if i'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time :icon_lol:

[pilottj]

lol you can tell from my avatar I am a fan of the blues :D

A lot of those bands in the 60s were heavily influenced by the blues. The Doors, CCR, Stones, Zepplin, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Animals...etc as well as 50s rockabilly's relation to the blues. And many bands today are influenced by those bands from the 60s. Blues is a 'root' form music so it is a very logical that rock bands would simply take it and alter it to more of a rock format.

One could even argue that the English 'saved' the blues because in the 50s-60s the blues artists were living in a very segragated society and they found a much more enthusiastic audience in Europe. Guys like Clapton, Keith Richards...etc were part of that audience and were very taken by the blues and put that sound into their music. I think a lot of the old blues artists who toured Europe where quite happy that their music was very appreiciated and would be carried on. Then by the time the Stones, Zepplin...etc were popular bands they could bring that sound back to the US where by now you had a more tolerant audience who could appreciate the music more as well too. Most of those bands knew very well where their music came from and were always humbled when they were playing with one of the blues greats.

here is a great jam with the Stones, Clapton, and John Lee Hooker


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11u5WAQG4do

But 'blues' is also a state of mind, and its quite a universal state of mind/sound that can be found in all sorts of music, even music that has no real relation to 'blues' from Irish jigs to Japanese traditional music. You can hear that melancholy 'blue' tone in so many forms of music. If you want to really get into it, listen to some Ali Farke Toure or Salif Keita...blues from Mali/West Africa...good stuff :)

Anyway, if the music makes you feel somthing when you listen to it or play it, then it is all good :D

Cheers
TJ

[tigisfat]

good posts, guys. This conversation is an old one, but there's some good perspective in this thread that makes it fresh.

[Ken Stallings]

more like blues plagarists, since they used many peoples work without paying royalties and often not even giving credit. not that i don't dig their music. but that's the truth, look it up and see.

Oh most certainly true! No debate whatsoever. Robert Johnson was long dead well before they covered several of his songs.

Cheers,

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

lol you can tell from my avatar I am a fan of the blues :D

A lot of those bands in the 60s were heavily influenced by the blues. The Doors, CCR, Stones, Zepplin, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Animals...etc as well as 50s rockabilly's relation to the blues. And many bands today are influenced by those bands from the 60s. Blues is a 'root' form music so it is a very logical that rock bands would simply take it and alter it to more of a rock format.

One could even argue that the English 'saved' the blues because in the 50s-60s the blues artists were living in a very segragated society and they found a much more enthusiastic audience in Europe. Guys like Clapton, Keith Richards...etc were part of that audience and were very taken by the blues and put that sound into their music. I think a lot of the old blues artists who toured Europe where quite happy that their music was very appreiciated and would be carried on. Then by the time the Stones, Zepplin...etc were popular bands they could bring that sound back to the US where by now you had a more tolerant audience who could appreciate the music more as well too. Most of those bands knew very well where their music came from and were always humbled when they were playing with one of the blues greats.

here is a great jam with the Stones, Clapton, and John Lee Hooker


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11u5WAQG4do

But 'blues' is also a state of mind, and its quite a universal state of mind/sound that can be found in all sorts of music, even music that has no real relation to 'blues' from Irish jigs to Japanese traditional music. You can hear that melancholy 'blue' tone in so many forms of music. If you want to really get into it, listen to some Ali Farke Toure or Salif Keita...blues from Mali/West Africa...good stuff :)

Anyway, if the music makes you feel somthing when you listen to it or play it, then it is all good :D

Cheers
TJ

I don't know if I fully agree with all your points. No question that the British "invasion" seasoned the blues and certainly expanded the audience. However, John Lee Hooker and B.B. King (among others) were successful and had large audiences before these English acts gained their popularity.

I think far more interesting is how blues has been almost wholly abandoned as an actual art form by modern day African-American music artists. There are a few out there, such as Lenny Kravitz, who carry on the rock-blues form, but if you look at the audience for blues being played today, it is almost entirely European and North American whites.

Jazz is even more so this way.

This is another reason why I don't really care for the rap and hip-hop genres. I just think there is a greaty quality of music out there being shunned that survived for generations without the slightest interest among Americans outside the segregated black culture. For so many decades until rock came along, so few white Americans even understood what they were missing, totally ignorant of some truely American musical creations -- jazz and blues.

Cheers,

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

One thing though is undeniable. I believe Hooker was in his '80's when that concert was recorded! I just hope to be alive then! That man was still able to play some really nice notes on that guitar! :applause:

Ken

[jmig]

These were great songs. I love the Boogie sound. Thanks for the links.

[cheezyflier]

blues being a state of mind, that's a basic truth if ever there was one, i think.
you can see that the blues scale has actually seen wide use long before there were blues as we know them. every culture has used the scale to some degree in their music. i swear i read somewhere that china was using the blues scale as far back as 2nd century.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Here is what the blues is all about.


<table width="600" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="50" align="right">1.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning..."</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">2.</td> <td width="500" align="left">"I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, unless you stick something nasty in the next line like, "I got a good woman, with the meanest face in town."</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">3.</td> <td width="500" align="left">The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes... sort of: "Got a good woman with the meanest face in town. Yes, I got a good woman with the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher, and she weigh 500 pound." </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">4.</td> <td width="500" align="left">The Blues is not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a ditch--ain't no way out. </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">5.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Blues cars: Chevys, Fords, Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don't travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft and company motor pools ain't even in the running. Walkin' plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die. </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">6.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, "adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">7.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place in Canada. Hard times in Minneapolis or Seattle is probably just clinical depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City are still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don't get rain.</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">8.</td> <td width="500" align="left">A man with male pattern baldness ain't the blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cause you were skiing is not the blues. Breaking your leg 'cause a alligator be chompin' on it is.</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">9.</td> <td width="500" align="left">You can't have no Blues in a office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster. </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">10.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Good places for the Blues:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. Highway</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. Jailhouse</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. An empty bed</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. Bottom of a whiskey glass</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">11.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Bad places for the Blues:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. Nordstrom's</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. Gallery openings</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. Ivy league institutions</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. Golf courses</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">12.</td> <td width="500" align="left">No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be a old ethnic person, and you slept in it. </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">13.</td> <td width="500" align="left">You have the right to sing the Blues if:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. You older than dirt</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. You blind</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. You shot a man in Memphis</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. You can't be satisfied</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">14.</td> <td width="500" align="left">You don't have the right to sing the Blues if:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. You have all your teeth</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. You were once blind but now can see </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. The man in Memphis lived </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. You have a pension fund </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">15.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues. Sonny Liston could. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues.</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">16.</td> <td width="500" align="left">If you ask for water and your darlin' give you gasoline, it's the Blues</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">17.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Other acceptable Blues beverages are:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. Cheap wine</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. Whiskey or bourbon </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. Muddy water </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. Nasty black coffee </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">18.</td> <td width="500" align="left">The following are NOT Blues beverages:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. Perrier </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. Chardonnay</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. Snapple </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. Slim Fast </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">19.</td> <td width="500" align="left">If death occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse and dying lonely on a broke-down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or while getting liposuction. </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">20.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Some Blues names for women:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. Sadie</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. Big Mama</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. Bessie</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. Fat River Dumpling</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">21.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Some Blues names for men:</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">a. Joe</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">b. Willie</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">c. Little Willie</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">d. Big Willie</td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">22.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Persons with names like Michelle, Amber, Debbie, and Heather can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">23.</td> <td width="500" align="left">Make your own Blues name Starter Kit: a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Melon, Kiwi, etc.) c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) For example: Blind Lime Jefferson, Jackleg Lemon Johnson or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. (Well, maybe not "Kiwi.") </td></tr> <tr> <td width="50" align="right">
</td> <td width="500" align="left">
</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50" align="right">24.</td> <td width="500" align="left">I don't care how tragic your life: if you own even one computer, you cannot sing the blues.

-Ed-
</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Henry]

thanks ED
true
H

[tigisfat]

holy cow, that was one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time.

[letsgetrowdy]

Love Led Zep, but if I had to choose it would be Mark Knopfler/ Dire Straits any day :jump:

[jmig]

Hey All,

Here is what the blues is all about.



-Ed-


Ed, I LOVED that!!! It is so witty and factual.

Now, I am NOT an expert on Blues (or any other kind of music) but, I would think a man like you, and any cowboy, can't sing the blues either (with possible exception of Willie Nelson), unless you sing the cowboy Blues.

[cheezyflier]

i laughed so hard i woke my stepdaughter, who should be awake by now anyhow

[Ken Stallings]

Ed,

That was absolutely brilliant!

But, please remind me never to be in Memphis same time as you are! :icon_lol:

Ken