Question about re-painting programs (Photoshop)

[Roadburner440]

Alright I have decided to finally take the plunge and repaint aircraft. Now I know that I need photoshop for the .dds plug-ins and such. My question is though there is like hundreds of versions of photoshop all the way from $40 to $1,000. Is the Adobe Photoshop Elements 8 able to do the things I would need it to do for repainting, or do I need one of the other programs? Thank you guys in advance for any advice that you have. I would like to hopefully keep the expense at $100 or less.. obviously it isn't worth it to me to spend $1000 to just repaint aircraft for myself (although I also intend to upload them for others if they want them as well).

[dswo]

You may be able to do everything you want with freeware GIMP or freeware Paint.NET. Lots of plug-ins for both.

[huub vink]

Hi Roadburner,

You don't need photoshop to create .dds files. I use DTX1 bitmap manipulator from Martin Wrigh to convert dds files into bmp format and bmp file into dds format. You can also do this with the ACES image tools which can be found between the SDK files on you FSX DVD (as long as you have the de luxe verion or Acceleration).

I use Paint Shop Pro 7, which is old, but does the job. In the past I have even made some repaints using MSPaint. So in my opinion you definitely don't the latest version or the most expensive program.

Cheers,
Huub

[falcon409]

Indeed you do not need to pay for a program to do repainting, there are some available for free and basically, if you want to go beyond just colorizing a texture and do layering (very important for any decent repainter), then follow this link. This talks about version 9.0 for less than $10.00, but there are also earlier versions you can find here that are free and do just about the same things. Photoplus is an excellent program and very similar to paintshop pro.
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/photoplus/

[OBIO]

Roadrunner

As Huub Vink stated, using Martin Wright's DXTbmp is the way to go to convert the stock .dds files to Windows bmp format, then to convert your new .bmps to .dds. You can find DXTbmp on this site:

http://www.btinternet.com/~mnwright/ (http://www.btinternet.com/%7Emnwright/)

Go to the programs list, then scroll all the way to the bottom of the page. You will see a link to download the latest .dll package...you will need that in order to run Martin's programs.

Once you have that downloaded, look through the programs list and find the DXTbmp listing.

DXTbmp is a very easy program to use. If you have any questions, there are lots of folks on this site who use and can give you the answers you need.

As far as what version of Photoshop to buy....buy the latest version you can afford. I started skinning with a very basic photo editor that came with my old $30 digital camera. Then a friend gave me a copy of Photoshop 5.0 LE (Limited Edition) that she found at a yard sale for $1. 5.0 LE was bundled with new computers back in the day and was a stripped down version of Photoshop 5.0. It had everything I needed. Then I got a copy of Photoshop 7.0.

If you are not 100% set on Photoshop, you can also use Paint Shop Pro....I have it..don't like it. I am running a give away contest for an unopened Paint Shop Pro 8.0 if you want to take your chances on winning. Check out the entry thread in the Newshawks forum.

OBIO

[djscoo]

Elements is not the program for repainting. It has basic tools to allow for color correction, cropping, and some effects.
You are most likely looking for the Creative Suite. Photoshop CS4 is your best bet. Also, I don't know if you are still in school or not, but you can find CS4 in student bookstores for super cheap.

[PRB]

Also, the latest versions of Paint Shop Pro are under 100.00 and will do everything you will ever need for painting FS planes, and many other things. I'm sure there are things PS will do that PSP can't, but I don't know what they are!

[falcon409]

Also, the latest versions of Paint Shop Pro are under 100.00 and will do everything you will ever need for painting FS planes, and many other things. I'm sure there are things PS will do that PSP can't, but I don't know what they are!
Yep, I use Paint Shop Pro as well (8.0) and it's excellent. It's all in what you're used to. If you can find a program that allows for layering, that's an important tool. Otherwise, it's whatever you feel comfortable with and has the least amount of learning curve to it.

[Lionheart]

There are some great freeware programs out there, and I certainly do not think any sane person would spend $1,000.00 for a paint program (thats ludicrous, unless you are a millionaire and do not care).

But... Photoshop is highly recommended. I love it.. (I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE it). But I have an ancient issue, Photoshop 6.0.

Some people sell it on Ebay, versions 6 or 7 are good.

I purchased Photoshop Elements last week for my Mac (mac version of PS) and it is brilliant. I am really impressed with it. I would check to see if you can use the nVidia tools with it (Elements) and if so, you can have the lastest Photoshop for $99.00. If you can afford $99.00, its worth it. It does layers and effects, etc, and is pretty nice compared with PS 6.0. (I may have to upgrade my PS to Elements if it can do the nVidia tools for when I am in Windows mode).

The cool thing with the nVidia tools is that you can double click right on a DDS file in FSX and it opens right up in PS. You can save as PSD and then to DDS in PS which makes PS ultra useful in doing heavy painting in FSX. For converting to FS9 formats, I just use DXTBmp by Martin Wright. Great program. It would be cool if he could figure out how to do a addon script/tool for PS that would enable DXT format saving, like nVidia did with DDS textures. That would be the ultimate painting setup.


The main thing of all of this, with PSP, PS, Gimp, is the ability to do layers. If you do not know about Layers, they are basically 'stacks'. You see from the top down, so some top layers will hide bottom layers. You can turn off layers, give layers effects, group them in folders of layers, etc, but are all stacks. From a stack, you can burn a JPG, BMP, DDS, etc, from them, but keeping the stacks 'stacked' and not flattened. Thus you can insert a layer of different stripes (stripes only) over a white background, change the background to beige, green, etc. Thus, stacks are totally amazing for repainting. Some layers can have just rivets, some have panel lines with effects for shading, etc, etc....

Great fun painting in layers..

Bill
LHC

[Roadburner440]

Thank you guys for all the quick replies. Wasn't expecting them this fast. I have done a little bit of research, and went on Avsim forums and looked at their tutorials, but everything is old which is why I wanted to come on here and see what everyone is currently using. It is good to see that the answers go from spending no money at all to getting the PS Elements for $100. I will give them all a try (of course with PS Elements as the last resort). The stacks sound like what I would want to work with. Cause ideally I would like to keep the rivets, etc, paint the body (I know there are different view for the wings, fuselage, and that everything is spread amongst multiple files in 2D). I would like to keep the functionality as good as possible. Cause I want to repaint the A2A B-17 Accusim, add a tail number to my P-47D, and change the registration number on my MD-11X.. then of course mess around with repainting other stuff, but those 3 are high on my pri-list.

[ndicki]

One thing I can't stress enough is that whatever program you use, it MUST have layering. It's the only way to be able to reproduce details such as panel lines and riveting, for example, and still work on the basic paint scheme below them. Also if you don't have each detail on a separate layer, you'll have trouble making the specular sheet or alpha channel you need to determine reflectivity. Obviously just fusing the layers are desaturating them won't be accurate enough.

Just a quick foray from my home next-door in CFS3-land!

[Skittles]

If you don't go with GIMP you're clinically insane.

In terms of repainting aircraft, there is nothing you can do it photoshop that you can't do with GIMP.

If you were a high-end graphics editor then you'd choose photoshop (that said, only for the user interface which is slightly easier for some tasks) but for chucking some paint on aircraft? GIMP all the way.

For you it would be mental to spend any more than £0.

Whatever you go with (gimp) give it some time to become accustomed to the program. It's not like MS paint. You'll have plenty of frustrating moments. A good example is trying to draw on your image and nothing shows up: "Why aren't you showing up? I've got the paint tool, now paint. WHY WON'T YOU SHO....wrong layer."

[jankees]

I'm using Photoshop CS3, but only because I get it for free from my employer. I would NEVER spend the asking price if I'd have to pay it myself. I'd use the GIMP instead, which does everything photoshop does as far as I can tell, and for free too!
So, get DXTbmp here (http://www.fly.to/mwgfx/), and the gimp here (http://www.gimp.org/), all for free, and you can paint everything I can paint.
I'm looking forward to your paints!

[Roadburner440]

Thanks Jankees. I'm not mistaken you are the one that did my Black P-47D for me, which I immensely enjoy. I am looking forward to finally giving her a tail number. :ernae:

[jankees]

Thanks Jankees. I'm not mistaken you are the one that did my Black P-47D for me, which I immensely enjoy. I am looking forward to finally giving her a tail number. :ernae:
you should have told me you wanted a registration, nothing easier....but now I'll let you sort that out for yourself...

[Skittles]

Jankees - do you do photoreal or 'hand painted' repaints? Or both?!

[dswo]

Both GIMP and Paint.NET can handle layers, so no worries on that score.

[jankees]

Jankees - do you do photoreal or 'hand painted' repaints? Or both?!

purely handpainted, though I may (rarely) lift an occasional piece of noseart...

[Lionheart]

Whats cool when you have rivets or panel lines on a layer, and you change your background color from say bright polished aluminum to dark olive, you can tone down layers, make them slightly transparent (so they arent so bright or 'eye catching' and blend better), and you can colorize things like panel lines, give panel lines effects like upside down Bevel so it looks like bump mapping with its shading. Its awesome...


Bill

[monk1]

If you don't go with GIMP you're clinically insane.

In terms of repainting aircraft, there is nothing you can do it photoshop that you can't do with GIMP.

If you were a high-end graphics editor then you'd choose photoshop (that said, only for the user interface which is slightly easier for some tasks) but for chucking some paint on aircraft? GIMP all the way.

For you it would be mental to spend any more than £0.

Whatever you go with (gimp) give it some time to become accustomed to the program. It's not like MS paint. You'll have plenty of frustrating moments. A good example is trying to draw on your image and nothing shows up: "Why aren't you showing up? I've got the paint tool, now paint. WHY WON'T YOU SHO....wrong layer."

I'll second that! Besides, it's free so it'll cost you nothing to try it out. If you don't like it, then you can spend some money on payware.

[Roadburner440]

Well its like you say, you can give a man to fish, or you can teach him how to fish. I figured you were kind enough to do the paint, so the least I can is figure how to put a registration on it. Intend on painting the B-17G in the same paint scheme as well. :cool: If my experiments pan out I want to customize all of my aircraft. Messing with the GIMP software now.

[Roadburner440]

Thank you guys for keeping $100 in my pocket... GIMP seems to do all that I want to do with my birds. I will post some screens up when I get home back to FSX. For now I will just play with the B-17 paint kit and hopefully get better with it.

[FelixFFDS]

Yep, I use Paint Shop Pro as well (8.0) and it's excellent.


I've been a registered user of Paint Shop Pro since version 1.0 (Many moons ago) and v.8 is the one version that spent the least amount of time on any of my machines.....

I still have 7.0 on my office laptop, but have X, X2 on my "development" machines.

I've fiddled with other programs from time to time, but always come back to my "security blanket" of PSP.

[falcon409]

Yep, everyone has a favorite something or other and skinners, repainters, texture artists. . .whatever, have their favorite programs and their reasons for being passionate about them. Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop, Photoplus, Gimp, it makes no difference, they all have their good points and bad, it's simply a personal preference. They'll all do what you need them to do, it's just whatever you feel most comfortable with.

As all of us have beat into the ground, the most important function is layering, without that you're very limited in what you can do. It looks like Roadburner has made his decision and I'm sure we wish him the best in his future as a repainter. May your road be paved with as few bumps and bruises as possible and may your layers be merged and flipped successfully.:salute:

[anthony31]

If you don't go with GIMP you're clinically insane.


You'd best call the men with the white coats then cause I hate GIMP. I like everything on one screen and the gimp uses two plus the file handler is an absolute pain in the arse. Having said that, I still use it on occasion (for making Normal maps for one thing) plus it was able to open a Photoshop file whch PaintShopPro couldn't. I 've also noticed that the GIMP can be rather slow when handling large files (5000x5000+ pixels which I sometimes use for photoreal scenery).

Still, if you can figure out how to use and be comfortable with the GIMP then good luck to you. You've saved yourself $100 which you can spend on more FSX stuff :)

I used to use a free copy of Photoplus 7.0 that I got off a computer mag DVD although compared to PaintShopPro X2 (which is the main program I use now) it is very limited.

If you go to the various publisher websites you may be able to download a demo version. I think there is a demo for corel paintshoppro and photoshop but I don't think there is a demo for photoplus.

[jmig]

If you don't go with GIMP you're clinically insane.

In terms of repainting aircraft, there is nothing you can do it photoshop that you can't do with GIMP.

If you were a high-end graphics editor then you'd choose photoshop (that said, only for the user interface which is slightly easier for some tasks) but for chucking some paint on aircraft? GIMP all the way.

For you it would be mental to spend any more than £0.

Whatever you go with (gimp) give it some time to become accustomed to the program. It's not like MS paint. You'll have plenty of frustrating moments. A good example is trying to draw on your image and nothing shows up: "Why aren't you showing up? I've got the paint tool, now paint. WHY WON'T YOU SHO....wrong layer."

While I know Skittles didn't mean to imply actual insanity, we all need to be careful with descriptive words which can be inflammatory. Terms such as above have more than once in the past started a flame war that destroyed the educational value and pleasure of the post.

Just be careful, please!

[Roadburner440]

I tend to not take stuff in the literal sense, but understand your point. It sure does take awhile converting files back and forth, and opening them. I managed to add a registration to my P-47D though (although it is backwards on the one side, but that isn't very hard to fix). Messing around with the B-17G repaint kit though and that seems like it is going to be a much harder task...

[falcon409]

. . . . .Messing around with the B-17G repaint kit though and that seems like it is going to be a much harder task...
Yep, with progress comes confusion, lol. FS9 was so much easier, but apparently there is so much more you can do now with specular lighting and bump mapping, yada, yada, yada, lol. Paint kits (when done correctly) have become more involved, more layers to play with (or get lost in) and of course then there's the obligatory merge and flip before you convert to DDS. There are some true artists among us that have produced some amazing liveries, folks who take this livery painting to a whole different level and then there are those like me who splash some paint on the various layers, merge, flip, convert and fly. . .totally oblivious to what could have been if we took it seriously, lol. I don't, but I'm also glad that there are those who do. You can choose to be anywhere along that line that you want.:salute:

[Bjoern]

Paint.net, because the magic wand tool is more than awesome.
GIMP for the whole rest.

Money spent - $0.00

[Roadburner440]

Well I must say after painting aircraft in real life (for 7+ years now) I would of thought this to be easier.. but now I think it is easier to take a few hours, mask off the entire helicopter, wait for it to dry, re-mask off all the marking and paint it. I see what you guys are talking about with the layers though. Before I was painting over rivets and such, but it is easier to take a color layer, and move it to the back, make the current layer slightly transparent (or vise versa).. My issue now is I'm trying to get rid of the bomb markings on the nose (the yellow ones), and those are all kinds of integrated in with the rivet/skin lines right there.