Man beats woman hurrendously for not dancing with him

[Lionheart]

A 'nut' was offended when a beautiful young lady wouldnt dance with him at a night club. She goes to the restroom and he follows her in, where he proceeds to pound the heck out of this poor soul, absolutely mercilessly, breaking her jaw, her left eye socket, her nose, and the left side of her skull. He kept going, slamming her face into the toilet.

They got him...


Now.. Being a Christian, I am at a point where I have to say, should we let someone like that live? Should we let someone back out into society that would do this to a defenseless woman? Will it be a kid or little old lady next?

An hour later, on the same news channel, I hear people are upset about a guy they just let out of prison who killed 5 women...

My thoughts, again as a Christian, are troubled. I would think we should take someone out, like that, and shoot them. Just get them out of here. They cannot be trusted with human life. Thats my thoughts, anyways. In the old days, you stoned them and made sure they didnt get back up. Use big rocks!


No wonder I never watch the news......



Bill

[FengZ]

I'm w/ you 100% on this one Bill.

-fz

[OBIO]

I originally had a nice post on this subject written up...but after I typed it, I realized that the subject of the death penalty can become quite political and very heated...so I will just say....let's keep this thread civil and maybe it can last more than 5 hours.

OBIO

[Quixoticish]

There is no reason for the death penalty in society and I worry about anyone who believes that there is.

There, that's my 2p on the subject, and I can't be swayed from this opinion. If you examine the situation impartially and logically from every approach then this is the only conclusion that can be drawn regarding the subject.

Regarding the OP; I have a friend who was in the exact same situation. Dancing in a nightclub, refused to dance with a chap and he turned nasty and started accusing her of being racist. He followed her into the toilets and beat her black and blue.

Fortunately her really picked the wrong person to beat up as she is a PCSO so the man in question is now having the book thrown at him in court.

It's scary when you see how many people out there have such short fuses and go out looking for a fight on a Saturday night.

[ericts]

That is why I can't stand TV news. What really offends me, almost as bad as the violent acts, is the fact that the news stations make big bucks whoring violent stories like these. News shows wait in anticipation for bad things to happen to young, white, pretty girls/women because it improves their bottom line. They may wring their hands and look sympathetic on-camera, but they react with a ghoulish sense of glee to such stories once the cameras are gone. I have observed this in person. It makes my skin crawl.

[gigabyte]

This truly is one of those subjects that evokes strong emotion and can turn ugly very quick so like OBIO says lets try to be careful with the comments.

Being a Canuck, and living in a country that has not had the death penalty for many years, the subject only comes up in our media when there is a very outrageous crime, and then the talking heads bash it about for a week and it is gone again. I am not as strongly opposed to the death penalty as Chris (although I do respect you position) I do feel there are some people who are not able to function in society and in SOME cases the death penalty is justified. I guess my biggest fear is and has always been seeing an innocent man or women put to death, and that is my main opposition to capitol punishment.

I have always felt that our justice system while it claims to be fair and to seek the truth is more often than not blinded by petty "Technicalities" and in the end offers far too much protection to accused and not nearly enough to victims and the society it is supposed t protect. The other big fault I find with the courts and justice system in general is sentencing for major crimes is not appropriate, Life in Prison should be LIFE! In Canada Life in Prison means Max 25 years before you can apply for parole, often as little as 10, and while not many get parole on the first try some do, however, their victims are still dead. Then the real outrage is over the offenders who are released and re-offend (that happens all too often) and it becomes easier to understand those who support the death penalty.

I firmly believe in second chances and rehabilitation, no question it can and does work, BUT, there are cases and individuals that have had second chances (and third etc...) and for whatever reason can not be rehabilitated or function in a civil society - is it fair or just for law abiding citizens to support these people in prisons and see them possibly go free in the future?

Tough subject, and there is no easy answer, but I do hope we can keep it respectful.

[Blackbird686]

I agree with you Bill... I would hate to think what might happen if I ever caught someone doing something like that to a woman, much less anyone for that matter.

BB686:USA-flag:

[Lionheart]

I firmly believe in second chances and rehabilitation, no question it can and does work, BUT, there are cases and individuals that have had second chances (and third etc...) and for whatever reason can not be rehabilitated or function in a civil society - is it fair or just for law abiding citizens to support these people in prisons and see them possibly go free in the future?

Gigabyte


I agree.

Thats like unleashing terrorists into the community. If they will always be a risk, a severe risk, then why deal with this. Why give it the opportunity to happen again.


I didnt mean for this to go political.. I hope it does not. I was just freaked out, literally, that this happened. Then I hear of another guy that just went free after having killed 5 people.

Luckily this woman didnt die, but man, did she come close or what?


There are indeed monsters that walk among us..

[Cazzie]

Now Bill, you are a Christian and Christ forgives. You want revenge, you have to become a cold-hearted assassin on the same level as the assailant.

Me, I am more of an eye for an eye Muslim justice; rob someone, cut off a hand; rape someone, cut off a penis; kill someone, cut off a head. It makes perfect sense to me, it is probably the only part of Islam I agree with, but it sure beats Christian justice the way we define it. Christian justice slaps a perp on the wrist and tells him not to do it again and probates him. Whack off an appendage and I guarantee perps will think twice before committing a similar offense.

He shouldn't be shot, just beat unmercifully like he did the woman, that justice in the right order.

Caz

[Snuffy]

Cap him ... have done with it.

[Terry]

Cap him ... have done with it.

Amen!

[lifejogger]

I am against capital punishment. I would rather have them spend the rest of their life in prison rather than take the chance of executing an innocent person.

[Snuffy]

I am against capital punishment. I would rather have them spend the rest of their life in prison rather than take the chance of executing an innocent person.

According to Mr. Bill's original post, they proved his guilt, he's no longer innocent so that concern should no longer haunt you.

With regards to having him spend the rest of his life in prison ... I'm tired of supporting oxygen sucking scum like this with my hard earned money. The more of these types we off, the less debt we have to support this scum.

-----

Bill for the record, "being a Christian" ... please note that JC came, NOT to replace the law ... but to fulfill it. Meaning that the law as originally written still stands. The law specifically stated that if a person was deserving of punishment for his crime then he should be punished. Being as how this clown practically killed this woman, should he be practically maimed as well? Ye old eye for eye routine?

I'm a firm believer that if capital punishment were more in vogue, there would be less criminal activity. Theoretically the thought process goes ... "Gee if I commit this crime and get caught, I could be snuffed out." goes a long way in stopping a person to commit criminal activity to start with.

And that's all I'm gonna say on this.

[Emil Frand]

The death penalty wouldnt have stopped this guy from doing what he did, though I agree "cap his ass" and be done with it applies he'll be charged with assault, probably serve some time and be on the streets again, probably more pissed off than he was before.
Last week in a small city near us, Appleton,WI, some perv sicko scumbag followed two 13 yearold girls in a Target located at a mall, he followed them outside and told them he was a cop and saw them shoplifting, he took one of them behind some dumpsters and moltested her. He was caught on video and was captured yesterday, he was visiting family there and was arrested in Minnesota at his home. A family member saw the video on the newss and turned him in.
These are the people that scare me, this guy will serve time and hopefully while iin prison will meet his demise in a gruesome fashion but if not he gets released, do you think the next time he does this he'll leave a witness? That sicko in California who served time for sexual assault was released then killed that 17 year old girl and is suspected in the death of another 14 year old wasnt going to take that chance of being caught again, thank god he was.
If the death penalty was in play I believe these guys would kill more of thier victims but released offenders seem to do this to cover their tracks so what do or what should be done with them? They have the highest percent of repeat offenders of all crimes and soing a simple check on the internet will show you how many live in your area.
Theres video of a father who waited for the guy who molested his daughter(or son, cant remember which) and as the guy was being led in handcuffs escorted by two cops went up and blew his frikkin brains out, to me thats justice and Im affraid to say it but Id probably do the same thing.

[Killbilly]

Now Bill, you are a Christian and Christ forgives. You want revenge, you have to become a cold-hearted assassin on the same level as the assailant.


The death penalty isn't about revenge. It really isn't about justice, either. Justice implies making amends, and there is no earthly justice that can ever make amends for what some people take from others. The death penalty is about loss of privileges. We have rights, but we can lose them. In the US we have the right to drive a car. However, our actions can cause us to lose that right when we become a danger to the rights of others because we can't control our car. We also have the right to life, and the same consequences should apply when we can't control our life. Of course, people can get their driving privileges back, but maybe they shouldn't. There is ample evidence that imprisonment does not keep violent people from victimizing others (even within the prison). The death penalty certainly does. I forgive those people and feel sorry for their miserable, pathetic choices; but I still expect them to face the consequences of those choices, and I expect our legal system to protect others from those bad choices.

Anyway, that's my two cents. All of which would go straight out the window if I actually caught someone in the act. As forgiving as I am after the fact, I don't think I could be forgiving in the moment.

[Lionheart]

Now Bill, you are a Christian and Christ forgives. You want revenge, you have to become a cold-hearted assassin on the same level as the assailant.

Caz


You see my difficulty in this.

My thought is, a monster is a monster. He did this and perhaps has done it before and perhaps will do it again as its in his blood. Unless we can put him on an island where he will stay, I think we should probably 'take him down' so he cant hurt anymore people. Its like a terrorist. They live to kill, and to kill many. Its beautiful to them. Why waist our tax money keeping a monster alive?

Although.... The thought of giving him what he gave to others comes to mind. Equal balance.

difficult..



Bill

[Willy]

I know that with horses, sometimes you just run up on one that is going to kill you regardless of what you do if you give him half a chance. Those horses are just not right mentally and are hopefully euthanized before they do kill. Some people are the same way, but unfortunately they get to kill someone else before they are put down.

[cheezyflier]

as an average joe, my opinion would be lock them up and throw away the key. i don't believe prisons should be resorts with televisions and workout rooms. i think prisoners food and medical care should either be donated by people who want to do these things, or they should work for their meals, or starve.

as a christian person, i suspect that these people are possesed. (laugh if you want, i don't care) if they can't be cleansed, lock them up. those of you who are also christian cannot rely on old testament justice because we are under a new covenant and the old laws do not apply to those who have accepted Christ. you couldn't follow all 613 laws if you tried. that was the whole point. that's the reason why the jews are the only ones still trying to follow them. because they haven't accepted Jesus, so they don't understand those laws are no longer valid.

i've seen some pretty nasty stuff, just like the rest of you. probably more/wordse than many of you.
i've been left for dead myself, after being beaten by 3 guys. capital punishment (in my view) is murder.
life in prison, is justice.

[oakfloor]

A 'nut' was offended when a beautiful young lady wouldnt dance with him at a night club. She goes to the restroom and he follows her in, where he proceeds to pound the heck out of this poor soul, absolutely mercilessly, breaking her jaw, her left eye socket, her nose, and the left side of her skull. He kept going, slamming her face into the toilet.

They got him...


Now.. Being a Christian, I am at a point where I have to say, should we let someone like that live? Should we let someone back out into society that would do this to a defenseless woman? Will it be a kid or little old lady next?

An hour later, on the same news channel, I hear people are upset about a guy they just let out of prison who killed 5 women...

My thoughts, again as a Christian, are troubled. I would think we should take someone out, like that, and shoot them. Just get them out of here. They cannot be trusted with human life. Thats my thoughts, anyways. In the old days, you stoned them and made sure they didnt get back up. Use big rocks!


No wonder I never watch the news......



Bill
As I am also a born agian Christian, and a bible reader. Let us not forget that God is the avenger, and he will take revenge in due time. We love the sinner and hate the sin, but remember this, he may very well be cast into a lake of fire to burn forever and this I WISH THIS NO ONE ..all will be judged and rewarded for there evil or good deeds while here on earth NO ONE will escape there due.. Meanwhile people like this will roam the world until someone stops them.

[Quixoticish]

As I am also a born agian Christian, and a bible reader. Let us not forget that God is the avenger, and he will take revenge in due time. We love the sinner and hate the sin, but remember this, he may very well be cast into a lake of fire to burn forever and this I WISH THIS NO ONE ..all will be judged and rewarded for there evil or good deeds while here on earth NO ONE will escape there due.. Meanwhile people like this will roam the world until someone stops them.

And those of us who aren't Christians can look after your pets while you guys are all busy enjoying judgement day. (Assuming you aren't burning in the aforementioned lake of fire, of course!)

It's a win-win situation!

http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/

[Snuffy]

And those of us who aren't Christians can look after your pets while you guys are all busy enjoying judgement day. (Assuming you aren't burning in the aforementioned lake of fire, of course!)

It's a win-win situation!

http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/

LOL!

MHO ... there's gonna be a lot of disappointed folks. :wiggle:

[Henry]

with regards to Religion and politics over this matter
i believe they really do not come into play or at least should not
this is about an eye for an eye
or a rabid dog
now does he deserve a death penalty, im all for saving money
cheaper than life in prison but there again one innocent man is too much to pay
it seems like he was apprehended and seen in the act
put him in the slammer, would he change yup but not for the reasons he needs too
he never killed anyone this time
but next time?
darn im just glad i cannot dance:wiggle:
the 1st commandment states thou shall not kill
that has to work both ways [Religious ]
imprisonment vs death [political]
whatever happened to the stocks, rotten eggs and tomatoes
and just put him on display
stone the sob
HenryVIII :salute:

[oakfloor]

And those of us who aren't Christians can look after your pets while you guys are all busy enjoying judgement day. (Assuming you aren't burning in the aforementioned lake of fire, of course!)

It's a win-win situation!

http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/
Well Im not the judge God is, so you dont have a valid point. And no one will be enjoying that day sorry, And you can have all the pets you want.

[Quixoticish]

Well Im not the judge God is, so you dont have a valid point. And no one will be enjoying that day sorry, And you can have all the pets you want.

My post was meant in jest oakfloor.Anyway, talking about valid points all seems rather futile when you're discussing something subjective like an alleged invisible man living in the sky.

[Curtis P40]

Now Bill, you are a Christian and Christ forgives. You want revenge, you have to become a cold-hearted assassin on the same level as the assailant.

Me, I am more of an eye for an eye Muslim justice; rob someone, cut off a hand; rape someone, cut off a penis; kill someone, cut off a head.

Caz

I think Cazzie is on to something. Spent alittle time in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, and every Saturday in the town square was judgment day. Makes people think twice about doing something stupid. Besides, where's the modern day America or Australia to send them to?
Curt

[oakfloor]

My post was meant in jest oakfloor.Anyway, talking about valid points all seems rather futile when you're discussing something subjective like an alleged invisible man living in the sky.
In jest? I think your replys say exactly what you mean, so I will just leave it alone.

[TARPSBird]

Those of you who are so strongly against the death penalty should have seen some of the court proceedings in the trial of Richard Allen Davis, convicted in 1996 of the kidnapping and murder of 12-year-old Polly Klaas. If ever there was a piece of sh*t who deserved to be executed it was Davis. Unfortunately he is still on Death Row at San Quentin, thanks to the legal time warp of the appeals process. I'd still gladly make the trip out to California to throw the switch on him, were I invited to do so. :mad:

[oakfloor]

Those of you who are so strongly against the death penalty should have seen some of the court proceedings in the trial of Richard Allen Davis, convicted in 1996 of the kidnapping and murder of 12-year-old Polly Klaas. If ever there was a piece of sh*t who deserved to be executed it was Davis. Unfortunately he is still on Death Row at San Quentin, thanks to the legal time warp of the appeals process. I'd still gladly make the trip out to California to throw the switch on him, were I invited to do so. :mad:
He will get his day, and it's coming sooner than we think.

[tigisfat]

(prepares shield for oncoming attacks)

You guys are going way overboard here.

A guy gets turned down for a dance and then beats her up? BS. I'll bet there is WAAAAAAAAY more to this story.


Like I said, there has to be way more to this story, and this 'poor innocent little girl' is probably a monster. Girls love to dance! They don't turn down ugly or loser dudes for dancing. Only the most miserable 'Paris Hilton' snotty brats do. Still, that doesn't warrant a beating: there has to be more.

You want to kill someone because he beat someone up? Anyone that wants the death penalty for this guy should realize their hypocrisy in sensationalizing the situation. If this was some random dude beating up another dude, noone would care. This christain stuff can be downright offensive, and this isn't the place for it. I usually do'nt say anything because most of the time your religious thraeds are harmless. It's particularly offensive right now because the typical christain 'holier than thou' attitude warrants making a big deal out of something because 'I could never be driven to do something that bad because I'm so christain' but you want him murdered in cold blood? If there was a Jesus, how do you think he'd feel about you saying that?

[Bjoern]

Taking the "frustrated" in "frustrated single" too far...

And what Tigisfat said.

Also: If there were death penalties for fist fights, the world population would be cut down to half by now.

[oakfloor]

(prepares shield for oncoming attacks)

You guys are going way overboard here.

A guy gets turned down for a dance and then beats her up? BS. I'll bet there is WAAAAAAAAY more to this story.


Like I said, there has to be way more to this story, and this 'poor innocent little girl' is probably a monster. Girls love to dance! They don't turn down ugly or loser dudes for dancing. Only the most miserable 'Paris Hilton' snotty brats do. Still, that doesn't warrant a beating: there has to be more.

You want to kill someone because he beat someone up? Anyone that wants the death penalty for this guy should realize their hypocrisy in sensationalizing the situation. If this was some random dude beating up another dude, noone would care. This christain stuff can be downright offensive, and this isn't the place for it. I usually do'nt say anything because most of the time your religious thraeds are harmless. It's particularly offensive right now because the typical christain 'holier than thou' attitude warrants making a big deal out of something because 'I could never be driven to do something that bad because I'm so christain' but you want him murdered in cold blood? If there was a Jesus, how do you think he'd feel about you saying that?
So typical "holier than thou" and "downright offensive" he made the choice to beat her and will have to live with that. Like I said it's not my place to judge him, anyway you can have the last word. And as a Christian, Im praying that he will change his ways, but if he does not..then so be it.

[Snuffy]

(prepares shield for oncoming attacks)

You guys are going way overboard here.

A guy gets turned down for a dance and then beats her up? BS. I'll bet there is WAAAAAAAAY more to this story.

You want to kill someone because he beat someone up? ...

Lets approach this from another angle. I assume you don't have any sisters. I also assume you don't have a girlfriend.

NOW, suppose this girl that got the crap beat out of her by this low life was your sister, or your girlfriend, Now how do ya feel?

The point is, his actions warrent some form of punishment. Guys who go around beating on women don't necessarily fit into society very well, because ... well .. obviously, its not a normal thing for this to happen. So already he's working against society.

Will he recoupe after a stint in prison? Most likely not, the odds are not infavor of it, so then when he gets out he's got this great big humoungous dislike for this woman because his actions against her landed him in jail ... now he's not only mad he's vindictive ... he'll most likely look her up ... try for another dance and when she realises who he is, and refuses, he'll kill her.

Nice. If you would have just offed him from the start then the innocent life lost would be spared.

[tigisfat]

Lets approach this from another angle.Well, oakfloor took the more non-confrontational angle, and I had so much respect for his mature response that I was gonna leave this alone. If we have to, I guess we will approach it from another angle.



I assume you don't have any sisters. I also assume you don't have a girlfriend.I have four stepsisters and a longtime girlfriend of six years.


NOW, suppose this girl that got the crap beat out of her by this low life was your sister, or your girlfriend, Now how do ya feel?.OH MY GOD THAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT!! No it doesn't. I try not to let my emotions rule my opinions of what proper justice in our society should be. I'm not part of the christian base in this country that would DEMAND banning wild birds if an adorable three year old blonde white girl was attacked by a bird. How much of that is real emotion, and how much is being a part of a culture where you must always try to outdo others? Shouldn't your relationship with god be between you and god and not you and other christians?


The point is, his actions warrent some form of punishment. Guys who go around beating on women don't necessarily fit into society very well, because ... well .. obviously, its not a normal thing for this to happen. So already he's working against society.I agree with you. The system should be capable of reviewing all evidence, his prior offenses and coming to a FAIR and equitable conclusion.


Will he recoupe after a stint in prison? Most likely not, the odds are not infavor of it, so then when he gets out he's got this great big humoungous dislike for this woman because his actions against her landed him in jail ... now he's not only mad he's vindictive ... he'll most likely look her up ... try for another dance and when she realises who he is, and refuses, he'll kill her..C'mon, you don't know half the story but you're already deep into his psyche? This is just like the Duke Lacrosse thing, where more details will come out.


If you would have just offed him from the start then the innocent life lost would be spared.Whatever you say. That is rediculous. I can't win this one by appealling to your better judgement and common sense, apparently. Half the problems with our country are caused by emotional fanatics, the deeply religious and special interest groups; usually the push for oppressive legislature is created by a group that falls into all three categories. People like you are the reason some criminals go unchecked and some accused are subject to what can be likened to lynchmob justice: the reason that many innocent men and women have gone to jail for child molestation.

I hope someone doesn't accuse you when you're innocent of some heinous crime that you're unable to defend yourself against. A system of freedom, weights and balances and the ability to appeal and defend yourself are supposed to be the hallmarks of a good society.

[AckAck]

I'm not part of the christian base in this country that would DEMAND banning wild birds if an adorable three year old blonde white girl was attacked by a bird.

Where is that Church? Kansas? I'd guess that that is a pretty small base, so you not being part of it isn't that surprising. Most of the rest of the Christian churches would ban wild birds if she was brunette too - and some even if she were hispanic, or - (gasp) four.

(see, you forgot the proper HTML tags) :d

Brian

[magoo]

Simple.

When the man goes to jail, find a way to pass on the court transcript to one or more of his jailmates. Most of those gentlemen have wives or girl friends, sisters, daughters, and (ummm...) mothers. Most are massively unhappy in an environment of harse conduct, high stress, and more than a little violence.

Word'll get around and the Darwinian way shall prevail.

No religion, no politics, no right or wrong. Merely survival of the fitest, the strongest, the smartest.

[Ken Stallings]

I learned a long time ago that invoking an absolute in any human enterprise is rife with error.

To my view, it makes as much sense to advoate total abandonment of the death penalty as it is to advocate total enforcement of it. All human situations have shades of meaning and context.

When you have a mass murderer like Timothy McVeigh or Osama bin Laden, don't hand me that line that the death penalty is not an appropriate sentence! If not Hideki Tojo then what if Adolph Hitler had not killed himself and been captured?

But what really bothers me is the totality of mindset which reinforces the desire for absolute rejection of the death penalty with the assuredness that all who advocate allowance under circumstances as somehow lacking in moral terpitude or judgment.

There are in this world, certain classes of criminals who are without any reasoned expectation of rehabilitation -- near complete certainty of recidivism. Combine that with crimes of dire evil, such as child rape and/or murder, and it seems clear to me that certain crimes fit criteria for certain punishments.

I would hope that a fuller consideration of the factors would yeild a far less strident conclusion. If nothing else then, at least a concession that their is room for consideration of the alternative point of view.

Ken

[MCDesigns]

I'm with you Bill, take him out of society, permanently! Beating the crap out of a stranger simply because they won't dance with you shows extreme mental instability and he shouldn't be in society!

[tigisfat]

I'm with you Bill, take him out of society, permanently! Beating the crap out of a stranger simply because they won't dance with you shows extreme mental instability and he shouldn't be in society!


C'mon, how likely is that really? The guy is old enough to get in clubs, he's not in jail already and he hospitalizes her over a dance? This story is flawed.

[djscoo]

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/nurse-beaten-in-midtown-bar/

The woman was the victim of an attempted sexual assault. She fought back, the guy got pissed off and beat the s#!t out of her.

The guy should be charged for the crimes he committed, none of which carry the death penalty.

[tigisfat]

It's just as I thought. There weren't witnesses, just her statement. Of course she doesn't want to tell the full story of why she got beat up.

[djscoo]

It's just as I thought. There weren't witnesses, just her statement. Of course she doesn't want to tell the full story of why she got beat up.
Yeah...

Can we all agree to post links to news stories when we are talking about stuff like this from now on?

[gigabyte]

I learned a long time ago that invoking an absolute in any human enterprise is rife with error.

To my view, it makes as much sense to advoate total abandonment of the death penalty as it is to advocate total enforcement of it. All human situations have shades of meaning and context.

When you have a mass murderer like Timothy McVeigh or Osama bin Laden, don't hand me that line that the death penalty is not an appropriate sentence! If not Hideki Tojo then what if Adolph Hitler had not killed himself and been captured?

But what really bothers me is the totality of mindset which reinforces the desire for absolute rejection of the death penalty with the assuredness that all who advocate allowance under circumstances as somehow lacking in moral terpitude or judgment.

There are in this world, certain classes of criminals who are without any reasoned expectation of rehabilitation -- near complete certainty of recidivism. Combine that with crimes of dire evil, such as child rape and/or murder, and it seems clear to me that certain crimes fit criteria for certain punishments.

I would hope that a fuller consideration of the factors would yeild a far less strident conclusion. If nothing else then, at least a concession that their is room for consideration of the alternative point of view.

Ken

Exceptionally well put Ken I agree with you 100%!

Tigsfat, having been the victim of an act of RANDOM violence and also witnesses to two other serious assults (I ended up testifying as a witness in court for one of the cases) that were completely unexplainable believe me it is entirely possible and quite PROBABLE there was no other reason for the attack in that story than the young womans refusal to dance, and women refuse to dance with guys ALL the time.

I was attacked from behind a few years ago, pushed to the ground, and received several powerful kicks to the gut, had it not been for a few "Gentlemen" (bikers who just happened to see what was happening) I very well could have been seriously hurt. The background story, the COWARD who attacked me from behind said he asked me to hold the door for him and I didn't... I had never seen this person before in my life, he had just arrived in our city that week from another provice, and although he had no idea I could not have heard him if he used a bull horn from 5 feet (I was stone deaf at the time it was 6 months before I received my Cochlear Implant), he wanted me to hold the door and I didn't so I was attacked. Thankfully his attack was cut very short, 2 bikers in full colours came to my aid, and held him while the police were called. His story - 2 previous convictions for assult time spent in jail, (he ws not responding to rehab efforts very well) and he got an ROR release, that was almost 7 years ago, he has not been seen around here since. So don't tell me there has to be more to the story, there are men (and women) who will not accept any type of rejection or refusal, and they often respond violently it happens all the time!

I am in no way saying the guy in the original story deserves capitol punishment, but like Ken put it there are cases where it is justified.

Your statement "The guy is old enough to get in clubs, he's not in jail already and he hospitalizes her over a dance? This story is flawed." does not hold water with me, how do you know if this guy has not already served time for assult, rape, or even murder, it was not in the news story to begin with, DON'T label something FLAWED without the whole story, the only purpose in that is to stur up a $h1T storm, but then again you seem to do that from time to time.

[Lionheart]

COMMENT EDITED OUT BY MYSELF


She did live, so maybe he shouldnt get the firing squad.

What else should he deserve? Lets make this more positive. What would happen to this 'thing' if he lived in N. Korea? How do they treat such freaks?

[SdC Redux]

Ummmm isn't this thread supposed to be in the Cantina (or the Q-Noon Saloon if it were open)?????
In Newshawks I hope to find normal informational/anecdotial posts..... and has the likelyhood of offending more people than just me.

[jmig]

That is an interesting point gigabyte. It shows how we rarely know what is in a person's heart. And, yes,! There are a number of people who have emotional stability problems. These people are a menace to society. In the "old" days, friends of the woman would have had a discussion with this bully behind the wood shed. End of story. That method of justice, much like Cazzie's "eye for an eye" is also frought with injustice and relies on who has the bigger stick. Modern justice is supposed to be fair, but often isn't.

Just for the record, I am against the death penalty. My reasons have nothing to do with the criminal's rights or life. Emotionally, I sometimes think the scum should die slowly and painfully. Those emotions of mine point to my reasoning. I am against the death penalty not so much because of what happens to the convicted criminal (although I do agree innocent people have been killed) but, instead what it does to us as people and a society.

In my view, killing someone makes us not much better than the murder. It lowers us, as a society, to his level. We just do it cowardly (IMO) behind the black robed justice system. That is all I will say. If anyone wants more or to argue, PM me.

tigisfat, you made a very logical argument of your views. There may or may not have been other factors? However, you also made a blanket judgmental statement against Christians. Blanket statements will 99.99999% of the time be wrong. A Christian is someone who tries to follow the teachings and life of Jesus Christ, whom they believe is the Son of God, thus God Himself. The key word here is "tries".

We all fail at being perfect. There is a seldom used word to discribe this failure to always be perfect. It is called "sin." Unfortunately, some Christians don't often act very Christian and what is worse, they see in others what they do not see in themselves. In other words, they fail to see the plank in their eye, as they point out the splinter in another's.

Still, in my experience, most Christian people do try to do what is right. The teachings of Jesus are good rules upon which to base you life. We try but we too sin.

BTW, I really don't think Jesus would have wanted to have this guy executed.

I want to complement everybody on stating views while keeping away from overt personal attacks. These types of discussion can easily collapse into rancor. In my opinion we did well here.

[Mathias]

A 'nut' was offended when a beautiful young lady wouldnt dance with him at a night club. She goes to the restroom and he follows her in, where he proceeds to pound the heck out of this poor soul, absolutely mercilessly, breaking her jaw, her left eye socket, her nose, and the left side of her skull. He kept going, slamming her face into the toilet.

They got him...


Now.. Being a Christian, I am at a point where I have to say, should we let someone like that live? Should we let someone back out into society that would do this to a defenseless woman? Will it be a kid or little old lady next?

An hour later, on the same news channel, I hear people are upset about a guy they just let out of prison who killed 5 women...

My thoughts, again as a Christian, are troubled. I would think we should take someone out, like that, and shoot them. Just get them out of here. They cannot be trusted with human life. Thats my thoughts, anyways. In the old days, you stoned them and made sure they didnt get back up. Use big rocks!


No wonder I never watch the news......



Bill

But isn't that what it's all about being a christian? Trying to stand to your believe (father forgive them because they don't know what they do) even when you are being challenged?

[djscoo]

THowever, you also made a blanket judgmental statement against Christians. Blanket statements will 99.99999% of the time be wrong.

Blanket statements are always wrong? How ironic....

[cheezyflier]

in my mind, you can judge people by their behavior. if a guy was to go to jail for stealing a car, or being a burglar, i would say that however slim, there is a chance that he may realize the error of his ways and reform.
i did. when i was a teen, i was a burglar. i broke into dozens of houses and cars in my area. i went to juvenile hall. when i got out, i vowed never to do something that would put me in jail ever again. that was 28 years ago. since then i have kept to my vow and tried to be a productive member of society.

violence is not the same thing. violent offenders do damage that can't be undone. i have yet to meet any that changed their ways. i have known many violent types. there's not one of them i would trust. those are the people i think should be locked up permanently. just my opinion.

[Emil Frand]

It's just as I thought. There weren't witnesses, just her statement. Of course she doesn't want to tell the full story of why she got beat up.


Seriously? So there werent witnesses so it didnt happen? Yeah just her statement, a broken eye socket,nose, possible skull fracture and unconsious for 2 or 3 hours and this you compare to the Duke incident where a drug addicted prostitute acused those boys of raping her? And what in your opinion is "the full story" and why you think she doesnt want to tell it?
Personally it wouldnt surprise me if beating women was a pass time of yours, you sound that frikkin ignorant.

[jmig]

Seriously? So there werent witnesses so it didnt happen? Yeah just her statement, a broken eye socket,nose, possible skull fracture and unconsious for 2 or 3 hours and this you compare to the Duke incident where a drug addicted prostitute acused those boys of raping her? And what in your opinion is "the full story" and why you think she doesnt want to tell it?
Personally it wouldnt surprise me if beating women was a pass time of yours, you sound that frikkin ignorant.

This is getting too personal, Emil Frand. We do not post character judgments of other member in this forum.

[mariereid]

My gosh, you guys know how you are supposed to behave here. Can't we discuss news items without getting all bent out of shape? :salute:

[redriver6]

This is getting too personal.

yes it is...

[Willy]

Ok, it's gotten personal, so I'm closing this.