Apple Reveals Child Labor was Used to Build iPods,iPhones and Macs

[hey_moe]

It is kind of hard to believe this is still going on >> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Reveals+Child+Labor+was+Used+to+Build+iPods+ iPhones+and+Macs/article17818.htm

[Snuffy]

Why is that so hard to believe Mike? Its the society of the country the parts are built in. Not every country in the world has "standards" as "human" as the U.S.' or the U.K.

[GT182]

When you see China, or any other country that thinks the way they do, it shouldn't suprise anyone at all. Child and slave labor is the norm... especially in China. And the fact we've let our own buisnesses reap the rewards of doing buisness in these countries. High prices and junk... yep we love that stuff. :rolleyes:

[Ken Stallings]

Doesn't surprise me at all, Mike!

Nike did the same junk years ago. To see Apple do it doesn't surprise me at all.

First, these companies ship paying jobs overseas to save a plug nickle. What surprises us that they would conveniently look the other way when child labor is used to build the devices they can then sell for a 700% or higher profit.

What I want to know is when people are going to get fed up with this crap and stop buying the products. And, when is the media going to do their real job and blow the lid off this junk every single time, every single case!

One final point to make, and it's to undress this bunk that Apple is being responsible. Nuts!

If Apple were truly responsible they would have identified the factories where the child labor was used. They are cowards to avoid releasing that data. They don't want the risk of law suits. I will bet the plants were in the PRC. The second reason Apple doesn't want to disclose those necessary details is they can now keep doing business with those factories! Frankly, I believe all labor laws in America should reside with the company who subcontracted just as it applies to the actual factory. In my view, Apple should be prosecuted by the US Justice Department just as if the child labor violations took place within the United States.

If nothing else, perhaps it will sober some of these domestic companies to their obligations and responsibilities as citizens of this nation and its laws!

Ken

[djscoo]

Just because it happens all the time doesn't make it right...these are human beings.

[Willy]

Another reason to not buy anything by Apple.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

This is about as political as you will ever see me get here at SOH.

Ever since Dodge vs Ford in about 1916 1917 where Ford wanted to pay his employees more the die has been cast.

Here is the judgement from that Supreme Court case as stated by wiki


The Court held that a business corporation is organized primarily for the profit of the stockholders, as opposed to the community or its employees. The discretion of the directors is to be exercised in the choice of means to attain that end, and does not extend to the reduction of profits or the nondistribution of profits among stockholders in order to benefit the public, making the profits of the stockholders incidental thereto.
Because this company was in business for profit, Ford could not turn it into a charity. This was compared to a spoilation of the company's assets. The court therefore upheld the order of the trial court requiring that directors declare an extra dividend of $19 million.
Apple's duties are to it's shareholders - morals and ethics and even laws that are not applicable due to the crime being committed in another country are irrelevant unless profit is threatened then you go into damage control mode to protect profit. Even the big banks today only see government bailout money as another revenue stream for shareholders.

Thats all I'm gonna say as I am as disgusted as anyone by this kind of stuff and we don't do political here. The American public and press will never do anything about it as all they have is a wishbone (for riches and stuff) not a backbone for what is right.

-Ed-

[Snuffy]

Just because it happens all the time doesn't make it right...these are human beings.

No one said it was right ... just stating facts. It happens. Face it.

[djscoo]

No one said it was right ... just stating facts. It happens. Face it.

I dunno, I guess this comment just rubbed me the wrong way:


Its the society of the country the parts are built in. Not every country in the world has "standards" as "human" as the U.S.' or the U.K.

Perhaps you could clarify what exactly you meant by that?

[Lionheart]

I heard, years ago, about a kids work camp in China, typical environment.

A building with a dirt floor, basically single story. A family sends the child to the business. They have a roll up small mat made of string and thin bamboo sticks, very thin, like a tablemat, but for sitting on. They have toys and things that they must paint, daily. They basically live on the mat for several months, I think terms of 3 months usually. They work 'ALL' day long and at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, they eat on that little mat.

Things like little toys and things that need hand painting is the specialty of kids.

After they finish creating the batch of merchandise, they are free to go back to their family's village along with the money they earned, which goes to the family.

Its a different world and a different way of life, one that we started down many years ago during the industrial revolution, having 8 year old kids working in steel refineries. Luckily we realised how invaluable our kids are. Mind you, money is money and times are tough everywhere.. They probably see it as a good thing.



Bill

[Lionheart]

This is interesting. Did they know about it?




The report describes, "Apple discovered three facilities that had previously hired 15-year-old workers in countries where the minimum age for employment is 16. Across the three facilities, our auditors found records of 11 workers who had been hired prior to reaching the legal age, although the workers were no longer underage or no longer in active employment at the time of our audit. One facility attempted to conceal evidence of historical cases of underage labor. Two other facilities presented falsified records that concealed evidence of violations of Apple's Code regarding working hours and days of rest."


Sounds to me like Apple discovered these things only recently. That they had 'first' set up proper payment for all employees, had rules setup for not having kids working on their merchandise, and these companies were doing it anyways, breaking the rules of Apples agreements, and the companies had falsified the evidence. Sounds to me Ken like Apple had the inniciative of doing things professionally from the get go already like a responsible American company should.

Apple also discovered that these companies were not paying overtime to their employees.

Bill

[Piglet]

How do you think I make my FS planes so fast?!?!
Back to work, Junior!

[tigisfat]

15 year old workers? OH NO!!!!

I was working full time when I was 14. I'm not sorry, either. I got my GED and got a head start on college and the military. So, noone makes their children do chores?

People grow up fast elsewhere. In undeveloped countries, the life expectancy is much shorter. If you do live to be 70 there, you probably aren't jobbing it like my great aunt does. There is absolutely no reason why a 15 year old shouldn't work just because we have developed an American tradition of letting teenagers piss their teen years away.

[djscoo]

That may be a true story, but it's not always the case. It is very nearly slave labor in some places, and the world doesn't give a crap...EasyEd has it right. Corporations have no moral responsibility, they answer only to the shareholder. I suppose Apple could be commended for coming clean.

[Panther_99FS]

Corporations have no moral responsibility :ques: What about responsibility to obey laws :ques: (regardless of what the law is specifying i.e anti-trust)

[djscoo]

15 year old workers? OH NO!!!!

I was working full time when I was 14. I'm not sorry, either. I got my GED and got a head start on college and the military. So, noone makes their children do chores?

This isn't like that...I've had a job (part time) since I was 14 as well, but I have laws that protect me and insure I am paid fair wages, recieve proper schooling, and aren't over-worked. In Texas, kids under 16 can't work past 7pm during the school year and can't work more than 8 hours a day and 40 hours a week.

These kids are going in to escape poverty and an agrarian lifestyle only to be essentially enslaved. There is obviously a problem if Apple has terminated their relationship with the manufacturer.

[tigisfat]

Corporations have no moral responsibility :ques: What about responsibility to obey laws :ques: (regardless of what the law is specifying i.e anti-trust)


Let us never confuse law and morals. Morals are constantly changing. The downfall of freedom is when we let the creation of laws follow whatever direction the wind and the moral majority is blowing.

[Cratermaker]

Before anybody gets on their high horse about Apple discovering and admitting in there own audit that eleven 15 year olds were working in one of their suppliers overseas, you might want to do a little research about underage workers in the USA. (Hint: farm workers)

[Panther_99FS]

Tigisfat,
Problem is, I disagree with concept that a corporation's responsibility is only to it's shareholders.....

That's hogwash, corporations also have the responsibility to obey laws too.....

(And nowhere have I mentioned morals here)

[Kiwikat]

The downfall of freedom is when we let the creation of laws follow whatever direction the wind and the moral majority is blowing.

If that's the case, I don't feel that Americans have too much "freedom" anymore. Or did we ever?

I was going to add more, but well, this isn't the place for politics. :blind:

[Panther_99FS]

this isn't the place for politics. :blind:

:applause::applause::applause:

[djscoo]

Corporations have no moral responsibility :ques: What about responsibility to obey laws :ques: (regardless of what the law is specifying i.e anti-trust)

Here's a good documentary regarding the moral & legal vs. monetary responsibilities of a corporation.
http://www.thecorporation.com/index.cfm?page_id=10

The corporation has all the rights you and I do, without a physical body.The corporation is bound by laws, but if it (as an entity) violates the law, who is to be imprisoned?

[Panther_99FS]

.The corporation is bound by laws, but if it (as an entity) violates the law, who is to be imprisoned?

Null statement since individuals have violated laws and oftentimes, only ended up with fines....

[tigisfat]

(And nowhere have I mentioned morals here)

Really? check the statement I quoted. You tooooooooootally did.:ernae:

[Panther_99FS]

Tigisfat,
Problem is, I disagree with concept that a corporation's responsibility is only to it's shareholders.....

That's hogwash, corporations also have the responsibility to obey laws too.....

(And nowhere have I mentioned morals here)

No morals mentioned here and THIS is the statement I was referring to :mixedsmi:

[Panther_99FS]

Well,
This has become circular for me now...I've stated all that I've wanted to.....nothing left for me to say now :)

[djscoo]

Null statement since individuals have violated laws and oftentimes, only ended up with fines....

But those fines are coming out of their pockets. When you fine a corporation you aren't punishing it, you are just putting a price tag on that wrong deed. There is no personal accountability.

[tigisfat]

Corporations have no moral responsibility :ques: :kilroy:

[Lionheart]

My dad had a 15 year old working for him for a year.. It was my brother. Kid was trying to work there when he was 14, lol.... Dang guy was as good as the other employees, a real natural.

[FengZ]

It's true China has all sorts of problems, and it'll take years for them to be solved. But this is something that every country goes through when moving from an industrialized society to economical society. China is moving too fast, and thus a lot of problems are forced into the open. As people are hungry for quick and stable money, laws will be broken.

If i'm not mistaken, when the US was going through the same changes back in the 20s and 30s, child labor was the norm. As a society advances, laws get passed to protect against such acts. But it's unfair for a country who has "made it" to start telling other countries what not to do.

Another example is the "western" countries telling China that its producing too much pollution. Well, guess what? All those factories are making goods to supply the western demand!

I'm a US citizen who has started many companies in Asia (one in Beijing, one in Singapore)....so i have first hand view of the situation. There are ways to fix these issues, but it'll take time...and pointing fingers is not the way to do it. I do my part by hiring employees and teaching them that by working hard and taking on responsibilities, you will be rewarded...and that's the true path to success. Taking shortcuts and burning-bridges only equal to short-term gains (something Asia loves to do)....but if you spend the time, build a relationship, it can equal to a life time of wealth....

anyways, my 2cents :)

-feng

[wombat666]

Just to get away from the overblown 'Moralistic High Ground' v the 'Real World' rhetoric how about considering Boeing and their use of Ferrets to build aircraft???
The Ferrets would have been 'under-age' as well.
:173go1:
This is really a subject for the Quarter Moon Saloon, not Newshawks.

[hey_moe]

Hey, sorry guys you are right. This is getting political, let me close it before ya come after me.