ATI Catalyst 5.6 release... the revolution ?

[A350fly]

--> https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=27

Is it a revolution ? ATI say with this new drivers : "Performance, Stability, Visual quality and Innovation".

5.5 --> 5.6 : + 200 pts with 3Dmark 2005
But are there differences with CFS3 ?

[Winder]

Ohhh yes definite difference with CFS3 - every time I exit the desktop reverts to 848 x 480 60 Hz.....lol...

Still trying to fix that issue so I know nowt about any FPS differences....yet

Ahhh computers best way to waste an evening....

Weird

WM

[rafael]

Started already a thread about this new wonder driver :wavey:

http://72.36.178.76/sohforums/showthread.php?t=304

[tml6171]

I'm just hoping it works with my 9200....testing it tonight after work. If I get even a few frames in CFS3 it'll be cool with me.

[Winder]

I found the cause of my problem - it is a clash with the Refresh Force app that I am using - now I have disabled the Refresh Force app and using the built in ATI refresh force CFS3 now will only run at 60Hz lol......:barf:

What a load of bollocks....anyone got the refresh force within the ATI control panel working?

:monkies:

WM

[CybrSlydr]

Don't use that prob WM, sorry. :(

Just installed them and now off to test CFS3.

[Winder]

Hello CS,

You mean you don't have XP I assume?

WM

[CybrSlydr]

What I mean is I don't use a Force Refresh prog. I just set it in the Control Panel - it's set to 60 anyway, so it doesn't really affect me.

I do notice some much better frames with this release. I'm playing 16X12 on all 5s and getting around 50+ fps in QC with.. 4 B17s, 2 GC 110s and a V1.

[Winder]

Ahh O.K but 60 gives me the heabies - I have to run at at least 75 otherwise I can detect the flicker with the ol Mk1 eyebol lol

WM

[A350fly]

75 ! :icon_eek: lol
I always run at 30-50 FPS with a X800 but I play with 5-5-5-5-5 + AA4x/AAS8x.
What is your card and settings WM and CybrSlydr ?

tml6171 : People say that you can gain 25% on 5.6 with the "olds" cards. :)

rafael : didn't see :) It seems that you can obtain +50% performance in Lock on... !

[Winder]

Ahhm I am talking 75Hz monitor refresh rate not FPS!!! With my budgets I am only sitting around 20 - 22 FPS at best although I have yet to test the latest driver FPS wise - still stuck at 60Hz....lol

WM

[A350fly]

Ok sorry :redf: lol !

I don't understand you haven't got this choice in control panel ?

[CybrSlydr]

I'm running an X800 also on an AMD 64 3500+. I just saw my AA and AF were on 0, so I'm gonna refly with 'em on 8 and 16.

[Polovski]

Winding Man, best to uninstall all the ATI drivers completely, then reboot with no drivers installed if it detects hardware just cancel. Then install the new drivers and then reboot again.

[CybrSlydr]

I'm still getting about 40+ FPS at 16x12 at AA6 and AF16. Damn good!

As for drivers, I just go to the add/remove, uninstall the ATi drivers, reboot, used Driver Cleaner Pro and delete everything ATi, reboot and then install the new drivers and reboot one more time and I'm good to go.

[Winder]

Mark, yep I have done that twice!

350fly - I have all the frequency options - I set mine to 85Hz but there is a known MS XP issue that causes a lot of full screen 3D games to run only at 60Hz refresh rate.

Traditionally I have used Refresh Force to force this to 75Hz (this is the max that my monitor can do at 1600x1200).

Now with the latest ATI driver/control panel Refresh Force screws up the ATI system such that it defaults back to a low desktop res everytime I quit a 3D game!

Disabling Refresh Force solves this issue but now I am stuck with 60Hz in CFS3 - the built in ATI refresh force just will not work! (on my rig at any rate heh heh)

WM

[bzhyoyo]

the 100$ question : does it kill specular reflections?

[Winder]

O.K I have got it working I deleted/uninstalled the lot again (3rd time) then cleaned out all ATI registry settings, deleted all ATI DLL's from \system and \system32 and rebooted twice then ran the installer....again...
Now I can force refresh settings - weird stuff these PC's eh! lol

I gain about 3 FPS....hmmm

Lionel not sure will check when I get back from the seaside - bucket and spade are packed, I have repaired the hole in the elbow of my swimming costume and I am ready to go!!! ;)

WM

[bzhyoyo]

no hurry mate, enjoy :)

[stiz]

i gotta gain of 10 fps so i'm doing bout high 30's to 40's now in CFS3 :icon_eek: i was running mid 20s before

Same with FS9 as well.

They got my thumbs up :)

Stiz

[rafael]

My settings are 4-4-5-5-4-1 with AA4x/AAS4x and i get 20 - 22 fps. Before 5.6 i ran all sliders four with nearly the same framerates. So just a little gain in performance for me.

@winding man
Found something about the colours in the "view.xml" concerning brightness. I changed all the colours to a bright green (0xFF80FF80) except my friends. They got (0x1f80FF80) and you can see the difference in the attached picture. Even the friendly announcemets look like that.

btw, recordings should be ready tomorrow evening

[Charlie]

Mixed thoughts too early to tell, pending further tests when BF2 come out.

Simple System

Amd2800xp
768 DDR @333
Rad9700ProX4agp (will try enabling X8)

Settings all 5`s now, 1024X768X32, D3d_4 samples

[I.B.Trippin]

Just Installed the new drivers for my 9700 pro. First test flight and all went well. I have no issues so far but I need to do some more testing before I'm sure. But my inital impression was that my game did seem to run a bit smoother

[Eraser]

make that question $200.

I'm running cat 4.12 I think with specular shine still, I want to upgrade further, preferably to 5.6 right away, but I want to keep my shine(might be able to incrementally)

[pied]

Is anyone using these with XP Home Edition, SP1? I'd like to give them a go but..... It would be a shame to ruin a Sim that is working very well.

PIED

[Squiffy]

WM,

Sorry to hear about your refresh problem. Ran accross that myself while sorting out my screen res. I may encounter this too since I used the refresh force programs to help out along the way. I thought the ATI software would help. Hmmmm, I hope I don't have to manually purge my system the way you did. :icon36:

[Polovski]

They seem to improve things for me by about 10%. Using WM's OFF budgets and according to WM this is effectively running sliders on "7" lol. 1600x1200 6xAA16XAni getting 20-40 fps about 4-5 fps higher than before.

[Wulfmann]

I installed the 5.6 cat. My SH3 CTD when I start a campaign or single mission. MAW goes to the second screen and stays there with the hour glass and I have to shut it down. CFS3 (Stock only to load MAW) ran. I guess I will have to uninstall all ATI and start over.
Bummer.
Wulfmann :cowboy:

[Squiffy]

Yes big bummer. I had trouble tonight too. But I realized I blew through the dl too fast. I didnt' grab the full version so that's why my control center disappeared. Dl'd the full version, reinstall. Hey, I have been able to just install overtop an old driver since I got the new card. Even off the cd the new ati install software removes old version with out fussing. So effective it removed my control center ha-ha. :) So I am reinstalled and running fine. I see about a 10% increase too. All 5s and WM budgets tweaked a little logarithmically. So I have higher density close in and lower far away. Can do a steady 20 fps on the deck in traffic. Just had some nice dogifghts 4 on 4. Man this new card and 1600x1200 is sweeeet! :icon31: OK day off tomorrow get some :sleep:

[Whisky_Papa]

What is WM's OFF budgets??

[Winder]

Spoke too soon - whilst I did get the refresh forced to 75Hz by twiddling in the control centre when I rebooted and started CFS3 again it was back at 60 - "force" setting in the ATI CC still 75Hz

Mark I concur I seem to have 3 or 4 FPS better on "7" :mixedsmi:

:toilet:

Still OFF to the seaside the 60Hz refresh issue must wait....cheers.

WM

[A350fly]

I think it's better to stay with ATI Control Panel. ATI Control Center use too much memories...

[Polovski]

What is WM's OFF budgets??

Winding Man has tweaked the texture and landscape settings in OFF to effectively change slider "5" to be the equivelant of "7" :D

[tml6171]

The new cat 5.6 let me bump my sliders to 5/4/4/3/1 (Max's clouds). I run at 1024x768x32. I got a solid bump of around 5 frames. I was flying the Ground Crew BF-110 campaign in anti shipping strikes. En route I was in the high 20's to low 30's, striking the ships with lots of flak popping I dipped to 19-21. I used to dip to around 13-15. And remember this improvement is with my sliders bumped up. Overall I'm pretty impressed.
This is on a Athlon 64 3200+/512 mb pc3200/radeon 9200se 128mb, no aa.

[Wulfmann]

Had big problem with SH3, reinstalled that and it works but saved campaigns do not, they CTD.
MAW will not load with 5.6. It still hangs on the second full screen . I installed 5.6 on my older PC and MAW did exactly the same thing. I uninstalled and reinstalled MAW and still the same. :icon34:I reinstalled the stock drivers and MAW loads fine again.
Beyond me.
I have not run SH3 yet other than to make sure it works but the test for that is effects and ports for FPS.
BIA is much better with 5.6. It might be this is looking ahead and as always depended on other factors in each system.
I have little to no clue!!!
Wulfmann :cowboy:

[Eraser]

so basically ATI is screwing us cfs3 people.

back to Nvidia it is then!

[bzhyoyo]

FYI, cat5.6 kill specular reflections. Back to cat3.9 for me. Can I have the 200$?

[Mathias]

so basically ATI is screwing us cfs3 people.

back to Nvidia it is then!

LOL, actually a done decision for me, just saving some bucks so that I can afford a new Nvidia based card.
Not only do the ATI drivers suck with CFS3, they also are pretty buggy with Gmax and Max. Had more corrupted files and CTDs in the last half year that I'm running that ATI card than in all the years before on Voodoo and Nvidia.

[NachtPiloten]

Why does the refresh setting impact framerates?

FYI: Installed 5.6 and sliders at 3 get about 67 with just cockpit, with six lancs and 7 halifaxs around 40 with damage on a few bombers.

AMD3200+, Radeon 9800 256, 1 GB RAM Screen at 1240x1024

[Squiffy]

Screen refresh is all part of the display system. It is the old fashioned 'beam panning' of the crt, corrrect? Either that, or the net speed at which the monitor (including lcd) can redraw the eintire screen. If this is slower than the card, then the system has to wait for ther mointor to catch up, causing a bottle neck and stuttering or some other headache. Think of the classic illustration of motion picture technology: A wagon wheel from in old western. THe spokes of the wheel can appear to mover backwards or forwards depending on the speed of the wheel. The camera was fixed at 24 fps. If it varied it speed in either direction, you got the apparrent movement backwards or forwards. Unfortunately, we have to wait for the computer to work its stuff out when animating. When we watche a movie with a constant fps, we get the wagon wheel effect while everything looks comfortable to the eye and brain. Ha-ha, just hacking around. Help me out if I missed something.
:a1089:

[Winder]

FYI, cat5.6 kill specular reflections. Back to cat3.9 for me. Can I have the 200$?

Lol Lionel - cheque is in the post!:mixedsmi:

But seriously it was a forgone conclusion - no way ATI would patch for CFS3....but I do not miss it in WW1

I am grabbing SP2 to see if it enables the ATI CC refresh force to work properly....

WM

[Winder]

Screen refresh and FPS are tied to gether ONLY if Vertical Sync is on.

With Vertical sync on the FPS is capped at approximately half (make sense) of the monitor refresh:

60Hz refresh aprox 30 FPS MAX
80Hz approx 40 FPS MAX

With vertical sync OFF then the FPS "cap" does not exist.

BTW I always run with vert sync on to avoid tearing but the cap is not the issue for me - I cannot stand seeing the screen flicker at 60Hz refresh......

HTH

WM

[gerard]

But seriously it was a forgone conclusion - no way ATI would patch for CFS3....but I do not miss it in WW1

WM

To each his own but for me the loss of specular shine is simply unacceptable, especially for WWI crates. Specular shine is very important for simulating the subtleties of doped fabric.

It's prolly the result of some lame attempt to increase performance by saving a render pass... shame on you ATI!

gh

[bzhyoyo]

It's prolly the result of some lame attempt to increase performance by saving a render pass... shame on you ATI!
gh

That's why most people notice improved fps with later versions : they would get the same result by disabling specular reflections in cfs3config.
And I agree that specular reflections are a must, even for WWI crates.

[Winder]

Now if I could get specular reflections on water bodies that I would never pass up - but some wing reflection not a problem for me as of course the main issue is not really bounded by CFS3 at all - other FPS games that my son's play benefit and some even "need" later ATI drivers so it is not really a personal decision simply a practical one.

Now that I am about to buy a new vid card maybe it is time to swing the other way.

I assume Nvidia still renders the specular reflections?

In terms of performance I notice 3 - 4 FPS gain from a non specular rendering driver to 5.6 (non specular rendering) so this is a REAL gain - but again not really enough to make me say - yep 5.6 is the way to go for CFS3 - but it is possibly the way to go if your rig is used for other "games" and by other users - a lot are!

WM

[bzhyoyo]

other games? You mean Gmax? :D
Seriously, I don't have any issues with my drivers in Gmax (still haven't installed MAX ;) ) contrary to Mathias for example, so I'm really happy with my 9800pro and cat3.9. But I think I will get an Nvidia next time.

[Wozza]

Hi Winding man
are you using this ? http://www.pagehosting.co.uk/rf/
it only needs to be run once after a new driver is installed
you will need to (sometimes) change the max mhz your monitor can handle for each resolution as it dosnt always pick it up
Cheers
Wozza

[Winder]

other games? You mean Gmax? :D
Seriously, I don't have any issues with my drivers in Gmax (still haven't installed MAX ;) ) contrary to Mathias for example, so I'm really happy with my 9800pro and cat3.9. But I think I will get an Nvidia next time.

Lol no Lionel I mean SH3, Brothers in Arms, COD, Mohaa, AVP and a host of other FPS games that my sons play on the Lan - so they need my PC to work with these games as well so as to have their "Local Lan shoot em up Fests"!!
So as I say it is not really a choice I can make - I need to keep the PC up to date Driver wise. :mixedsmi:

Well anyhow I have solved my ATI refresh problem - I downloaded and installed the 5.6 driver with the ATI Control Panel as opposed to using the Catalyst Control Centre and I am back to normal biz. Thanks A350fly - great suggestion!

I can now use my fave Refresh Force applet as before and all works well - albeit yep no specular reflections on the wings alas...

:icon_eek:

WM

[Wulfmann]

If the trend in VCs continues we will all have two HDs and two VC and boot up the one we have the compatible games on, One ATI and one NVidea as games must choose to be great on one or the other.:blind:
Could be worse, :crybaby:there could be three choices!!!
While this may seem annoying remember the two competing drives the quality up to a much higher level than one standard.
For those that love SH3, ATI is much better and in the broader game world there are some that need the certain brand to run right.
But, if you play CFS1 or Space Invaders what do you care?:costum:
Wulfmann :cowboy:

[A350fly]

I will send a mail to ATI. I will speak about specular reflections. But, do you have other requests for CFS3 (not SH3 :) ) ?

[Squiffy]

OK,

If both A350fly and WM like control panel, I may just have to go back to it. :sheep:

As far as questions for ATI goes. How about "Fast Read AND Writes." I can never get mine both active. Specular reflections would be great. This reminded me of the config setting for dual pass render. Might there be a benefit to having it set ON? "Would it make the speculars work?" (he asked with much hope.) I really can't complain since it runs fine now on my rig. I AM using the gloss tweaked-edit and non stock planes. It's been a while since I have seen 3.9s.

p.s. I shut down the ati apps when I start the sim so memory usage is not a big deal for me. Does this cancel the effects of a force routine? :confused:

[Eraser]

There just has to be a way to get it to stay on later drivers. I had 5.x after i went to a new XP install and my shine was gone, before that(on later cat versions 4.X) I still had shine.

I reverted to 3.9 and got them back, tried upgrading over them with the 5.x and shine was gone. i reverted again. So far I've upgraded to 4.4 without losing 3.9's shine. I've done this by not uninstalling the 3.9 drivers before updating.

I've asked ATI about it, so far they've just said any display problems are mostly due to settings(very generic halfassed answer) but they didn't say they no longer support the game as alot of people claim.

I've yet to hear back yet after replying that their generic suggestions didn't help any and specifically asked if cfs3 was still supported.

[Squiffy]

Eraser,

I noticed that ATI no longer requires you to remove previous drivers. Might there be an assumtion (!!!?) that if you update from 3.9's using the new versions that it will preserve the shine while it runs the update on it's own? Maybe not because I think many people had trouble even going up to early fours after 3.9. Did you do this and find otherwise? Mine (5.6) still look pretty good. Maybe this is what happened for me too?

[Eraser]

perhaps. If you install 4.x without 3.9 you probably won't have shine, but if you update to each version incrementally without skipping any, it might stay. it has so far for me

[Squiffy]

I'm almost positive I had 3.9's at one point. Can't say I would want to test the incremental installs all the way up though. :sleep:

[Eraser]

I got another reply back from ATI. they say they their drivers still support cfs3 and that they're going to look into problems 5.6 is causing ( spec shine and problems wulfmann was having)

For the most part it sounds like a standard bureaucratic response, but it at least means the problems are on the list of game related bugs and our game is still supported.

[Mathias]

I got another reply back from ATI. they say they their drivers still support cfs3 and that they're going to look into problems 5.6 is causing ( spec shine and problems wulfmann was having)

For the most part it sounds like a standard bureaucratic response, but it at least means the problems are on the list of game related bugs and our game is still supported.

Hell, that's more than everybody else got so far so there may be hope!:greenbo:

[Winder]

Eraser - great stuff! :icon29:

WM

[fox]

they're going to look into problems 5.6 is causing ( spec shine and problems wulfmann was having)


great news indeed !!! :icon29::D
only problem they don't have MAW installed...:rolleyes: they will test cfs3 and they see that everything's fine...:rolleyes:

[Eraser]

The thing is we haven't changed anything with the MAW that would affect how drivers work, except maybe higher resolution textures than cfs3 usually has. have we even changed the shaders at all? or maybe your effects are too particle intensive for ATI to handle :p

[fox]

or maybe your effects are too particle intensive for ATI to handle :p

oh dear, what have i done...:icon_eek:

ehehehe... not a chance mate !!! :D lol...:D