ATI help needed

[guzler]

Hi guys,

Got my new pc today. I7 920 2.66mhz, 6gm ram, ATI 5850.

FPS before SP1 & 2 were around 15. Now after SP2, locked at 30. Problem is I am getting some screen rippling - not terrible, but annoying. I have followed Harleys settings for his ATI so far. Does anyone have any advice on how to get rid of this ?

Apart from this, very pleased with the set up.

Thanks

[harleyman]

Man...I had that for months and it drove me nuts...

It turned out for me that it was my vid card as its was a dual GPU 4870X1 ...

but yours should not..

Match screen resolutions in FSX and desktop(vid card)

Check refresh rates (60Mh for flat/ wide screen)

Install your monitor drivers ..if ya got em..Have FSX in config set to widescreen

Is that 5870 a 128 or 256 interface card?

And you followed the guides that I posted here for ATI too?


Hmmm

Try reducing some FSX settings and see if it improves..if it does something may be overworked and we can look into that...

[guzler]

Everything appears to be correct. I have got it set in wide screen by adjusting setting in cfg. Apart from this niggle, I love it. 400 kts low level in the Hunter without blurries is worth every penny !!!

I think its 256, its a 1Mb card, so has some punch. I will continue to tinker over the next few days and add things ! I'm now enjoying planes that I had to avoid in the past as they were FPS hoggers !

[ajaakko]

WideViewAspect=False.
Is this the line of the config set you have changed?
What would be the correct value when I have 22" Flatscreen

[harleyman]

WideViewAspect=False.
Is this the line of the config set you have changed?
What would be the correct value when I have 22" Flatscreen



Yes...Change that to =True

[ajaakko]

harleyman
Tank you again

[harleyman]

harleyman
Tank you again
Most welcome..sorry I missed this...Oppps lol

[cvearl]

Forgive me if you already know about this.

The rippling you are talking about might be screen tearing when you turn or pan. This is when vSync is not enabled.

Enabling Vsync makes sure that the video card sends a completly drawn frame to the screen and not in pieces (Normally a video card will send renders to the screen with not a care in the world of how the screen looks). Bottom half of the frame might get drawn a half second before the top or visa versa and the effect is a torn image (SCREEN TEARING). When you pan or turn is when SCREEN TEARING is most noticable if vSync is not working. Vsync tells the card to WAIT for the screen to be completely done drawing the last frame. LCD's draw at 60Hz normally which is 60 fps. or 60 refreshes per second. If you leave FSX at unlimited and somehow had managed to use a setting where you were ALWAYS over 60 fps and used vSync, the screen would draw 60 fps. Frame rate limiting in FSX help with blurries by reducing work load and also seems to smooth things out for many and a good setting is half the frefresh rate of the LCD. ie: lock at 30. Still tearing happens though. So regardless, vSync is still needed to get the card to WAIT for the screen or SYNC with it. No more tearing.

Note: In titles that do not have a vSync setting internally (like FSX), Vsync does NOT work in Vista and Windows7. Thank you Microsoft. Even if you force it in the driver (nVidia and ATI). In ATI CCC you can have vSync to ALWAYS ON and no difference in FSX will be noted.

In Windows XP, forcing Vsync from the driver still works.

In Win7/Vista, you have to use a third part app regardless of card mfg. With ATI, you can use RIVATUNER. Install it and there is a mini app that becomes available. Don't use any of the other features or tools in Rivatuner. Believe me. The app you CAN use is called D3DOverrider and it gets installed WITH Rivatuner. It has the VISTA VSYNC workaround checkbox thing in it and then with D3DOverrider running and the workaround enabled, you have vSync in FSX. But then there is a side effect...

With flying tips enabled, screen will flash white and or black and then back to FSX when tips display. You can disable those. However. ATC window causes the screen to flash or blink out as well. Very annoying.

The other tool if you don't like D3DOverrider is ATT or ATI Tray Tools. It too has an override setting but it is not global in it's behaviour. You have to go into ATT and "make a profile" for FSX and make that FORCE VSYNC enabled in that profile and save it. Then when you launch FSX from within ATT, vSync will work. Same side effect as I hav stated above apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Tray_Tools

I have not used the tools in Windows 7 and cannot comment on success or failure in that regard.

If you do not want to use these workarounds, locking at 50 fps minimized the effect but it is hard to have framerates that high all the time.

Hope this helps.

Charles.

[harleyman]

Great Charles..I had actually forgotten about Rivatuner..

ATI tool tray also works for that too...

[guzler]

Thanks Charles, I will try this.

[cvearl]

And if ANYONE has found a better solution to vSync with either brand without the third party app and the screen flashes, I am all over it. What I posted above was my findings from about 3 months ago talking to other users here and there and my own testing.

If a new nVidia card and latest drivers eliminates these issues I would jump to nVidia. I have owned almost all models of each brand at one time or another and have no real loyalties one way or the other.

Another lesser known fact is that in XP 32bit, the total memory map is 4GB and due to reservations of addresses, the larger the on board video memory the lower the amount available to the system and the increased number of OOM issues you have like floating trees and sqaures on the ground and so on. FSX likes SYSTEM RAM more than VIDEO RAM is my theory. After 512MB on video cards, it becomes all about SYSTEM RAM.

The catch 22 seems to be that going Vista64 or the Win7 variant to overcome RAM limits introduces vSync problems. :blind:

Charles.

[guzler]

What I find strange is on my old single core, I never experienced these tears. The FPS were much lower and textures took longer to load and blurries were a nightmare, so I am really pleased with my new system. It just seems strange to have a problem that wasn't there on lesser hardware. I was running a 512mb 8800gt and an AMD 3400+ at 2.2Ghz. I have read of problems getting ATT to work on Win 7, so will see what info comes out of this thread.

Cheers

[cvearl]

What I find strange is on my old single core, I never experienced these tears. The FPS were much lower and textures took longer to load and blurries were a nightmare, so I am really pleased with my new system. It just seems strange to have a problem that wasn't there on lesser hardware. I was running a 512mb 8800gt and an AMD 3400+ at 2.2Ghz. I have read of problems getting ATT to work on Win 7, so will see what info comes out of this thread.

Cheers

What OS was your old computer running? On your "old single core" I mean.

Charles.

[guzler]

XP 32 home.

After some more tweeking, I am now running texture bandwidth 70 and bufferpools 200000000. This has improved things alot, now there is very little tearing. To say I am loving this new system is an understatement.

Dino's Tomcat is now getting some air miles and Acceleration is excellent, a worthwhile investment.

[cvearl]

And if ANYONE has found a better solution to vSync with either brand without the third party app and the screen flashes, I am all over it. What I posted above was my findings from about 3 months ago talking to other users here and there and my own testing.

If a new nVidia card and latest drivers eliminates these issues I would jump to nVidia. I have owned almost all models of each brand at one time or another and have no real loyalties one way or the other.

Another lesser known fact is that in XP 32bit, the total memory map is 4GB and due to reservations of addresses, the larger the on board video memory the lower the amount available to the system and the increased number of OOM issues you have like floating trees and sqaures on the ground and so on. FSX likes SYSTEM RAM more than VIDEO RAM is my theory. After 512MB on video cards, it becomes all about SYSTEM RAM.

The catch 22 seems to be that going Vista64 or the Win7 variant to overcome RAM limits introduces vSync problems. :blind:

Charles.

I cannot edit the messege so I will quote myself...

I wanted to change it to this...

A theory I have but am still trying to prove is that in XP 32bit, the total memory map is 4GB and due to reservations of addresses, the larger the on board video memory the lower the amount available to the system and the increased number of OOM issues you have like floating trees and sqaures on the ground and so on. FSX likes SYSTEM RAM more than VIDEO RAM is my theory. After 512MB on video cards, it becomes all about SYSTEM RAM.

*EDIT* I thought the above statement was fact. I am researching to confirm though. I had good links on it back in the day and cannot find it now. I hate MS sometimes.

[cvearl]

I cannot edit the messege so I will quote myself...

I wanted to change it to this...

A theory I have but am still trying to prove is that in XP 32bit, the total memory map is 4GB and due to reservations of addresses, the larger the on board video memory the lower the amount available to the system and the increased number of OOM issues you have like floating trees and sqaures on the ground and so on. FSX likes SYSTEM RAM more than VIDEO RAM is my theory. After 512MB on video cards, it becomes all about SYSTEM RAM.

*EDIT* I thought the above statement was fact. I am researching to confirm though. I had good links on it back in the day and cannot find it now. I hate MS sometimes.

Here was another place it was dicussed...

http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&showtopic=247261&view=findpost&p=1563252

[guzler]

Playing around a bit last night, I changed my texture limit to 2048 in my cfg file and it seemed to reduce the tearing somewhat ????????? Not sure why, but gonna leave in there for now.

[harleyman]

Playing around a bit last night, I changed my texture limit to 2048 in my cfg file and it seemed to reduce the tearing somewhat ????????? Not sure why, but gonna leave in there for now.



That can be a sign that your Vid memory or your onboard ram is being over worked..

What ATI card you running? what are the mem clock speeds for it? you can OC it some and maybe improve that some what and go back to higher res textures???

[guzler]

I'm running a 1Gb ATI 5850, would of thought this would soak it up without too much hassle. I don't want to OC it as I have never done it before and fear melting it although open to advice.

Core clock 725Mhz
Mem clock 1000Mhz
Bandwith 128GB/s

[harleyman]

Maybe the problem is in the bandwidth at 128 bit...

I always get a card that has 256 bit bandwidth..There is a big difference in the two..Both in price and performance.

Price them at newEgg and you will see the difference..The 128 bit cards can bottleneck there in your system, causing all other components to seem uncapiable of fastness.

In FSX and all games its about open bandwidths..

Thats why I get similuar performance as you on a 500 dollar box..All my bandwidths are open

[guzler]

Damn !

[harleyman]

Its just a thing.........

I also learned the hard way through mush experimentation as to what workes with what...



$400.00 256 bit App..

$144.00 128 bit App and NewEgg does not even offer them now it seems

[txnetcop]

As far as I know, and I work with ATI engineers in Austin, the HD5850 is a 256 bit video card. The tearing occurs only in FSX (of course) so raise your texture max to 2048 or 4096 you should see an improvement. ATI knows about it and all ATI show tearing in the VC...another trick is to leave the VC at full zoom 90% or better and you will see less tearing it just isn't very authentic
Ted

[harleyman]

As far as I know, and I work with ATI engineers in Austin, the HD5850 is a 256 bit video card. The tearing occurs only in FSX (of course) so raise your texture max to 2048 or 4096 you should see an improvement. ATI knows about it and all ATI show tearing in the VC...another trick is to leave the VC at full zoom 90% or better and you will see less tearing it just isn't very authentic
Ted



Hi Ted Yea..I could only find a 256 bit 5850 also............

i think he lowered his texture res and foung improvement...Go figure...Gotta love FSX...lol

[guzler]

No, to the contrary, I increased it and it improved as Ted said.

According to the CCC info page, the card is 128 bits.

Just playing with buffer pools as I have read it can be better to reduce it, but I seem to get less tearing with it increased.

[txnetcop]

Guzler I don't know why the info page is reading 128 bit unless the card is defective. There never was a 128 bit HD5850, but as I said the tearing only occurs at less than 4096 texture max. ATI knows it but it was not worth the fix for just one game. They did try a software fix that made things worse-so I switched back to Nvidia but they have intermittent driver issues-however I have never had the tearing effect when using nHancer properly! ATI is a better card in many respects though such as color and clarity. However even that is subject to the eyes of the beholder! So enjoy your ATI HD5850, it is a great card
Ted

Hey Guzler are you using a notebook with the HD5850 mobility by Radeon that is 128 bit, however you may still use the 4096 texture max and get good results. ATI did make a mobility chip with 128 for onboard video

[cvearl]

Guzler I don't know why the info page is reading 128 bit unless the card is defective. There never was a 128 bit HD5850, but as I said the tearing only occurs at less than 4096 texture max. ATI knows it but it was not worth the fix for just one game. They did try a software fix that made things worse-so I switched back to Nvidia but they have intermittent driver issues-however I have never had the tearing effect when using nHancer properly! ATI is a better card in many respects though such as color and clarity. However even that is subject to the eyes of the beholder! So enjoy your ATI HD5850, it is a great card
Ted

Hey Guzler are you using a notebook with the HD5850 mobility by Radeon that is 128 bit, however you may still use the 4096 texture max and get good results. ATI did make a mobility chip with 128 for onboard video

Are you refering to vSync related tearing? Are you saying you don't get that with nVidia? In Vista/Win7? And if not, that's because you are forcing via nHancer? Or does it just work.

ATI Tray Tools and D3DOverrider can force vSync as well in Vista/Win7. ATI Tray Tools does it via a game profile where you "enable" the Vista vSync workaround. D3DOverrider has the simular "vSync Workaround" for Vista. You get it with Rivatuner.

If you don't need a 3rd party tool to force vSync with nVidia in Win7 in FSX, I will swap out to an nVidia card right now. I love my 4870 but I spend all my free computer time in FSX these days.

PS - If you are forcing vSync with nHancer (just like ATI Tray Tools), what happens when you open ATC? I get a split second screen flash every time and it annoys the heck out of me.

Please advise.

Charles.

[guzler]

Hi Ted,

Am I reading the right thing then ?

Here is a review of the card and it states on it...

"Up To 128GB/sec of memory bandwidth"

http://hothardware.com/Articles/AMD-ATI-Radeon-HD-5850-Performance-Review/

I'm using a desktop PC Ted. apart from the slight tearing, I do like the card, it's limitations do show through differently than the NVidia cards I have been used to, but tweeking and fiddling is helping me to understand how to get the most out of it. The colours are very vibrant, although how much of that is the card and how much the monitor, I don't know.

Cheers

Neil

[harleyman]

The colors are all ATI..

Yea..That post above may be your ticket..i never messed with those apps much, as I never needed them..but they can force V Sync ...

[txnetcop]

Hi Ted,

Am I reading the right thing then ?

Here is a review of the card and it states on it...

"Up To 128GB/sec of memory bandwidth"

http://hothardware.com/Articles/AMD-ATI-Radeon-HD-5850-Performance-Review/

I'm using a desktop PC Ted. apart from the slight tearing, I do like the card, it's limitations do show through differently than the NVidia cards I have been used to, but tweeking and fiddling is helping me to understand how to get the most out of it. The colours are very vibrant, although how much of that is the card and how much the monitor, I don't know.

Cheers

Neil

What you are referring to is 128GB/s bandwidth speed not interface. All HD5850s except for ATI Radeon Mobility are 256bit interface
Ted

[txnetcop]

Are you refering to vSync related tearing? Are you saying you don't get that with nVidia? In Vista/Win7? And if not, that's because you are forcing via nHancer? Or does it just work.

ATI Tray Tools and D3DOverrider can force vSync as well in Vista/Win7. ATI Tray Tools does it via a game profile where you "enable" the Vista vSync workaround. D3DOverrider has the simular "vSync Workaround" for Vista. You get it with Rivatuner.

If you don't need a 3rd party tool to force vSync with nVidia in Win7 in FSX, I will swap out to an nVidia card right now. I love my 4870 but I spend all my free computer time in FSX these days.

PS - If you are forcing vSync with nHancer (just like ATI Tray Tools), what happens when you open ATC? I get a split second screen flash every time and it annoys the heck out of me.

Please advise.

Charles.

With nHancer loaded I do not have VSync tearing in the VCs of the aircraft either on my system or test systems we use at TechCorp. We use GTX260, GTX 275, and GTX 285 video cards for our testing. If we test ATI we use 256 bit interface cards only which cover the HD4850, Hd4870, HD5850 and HD5870 the 128 bit HD5750 was a big disappointment for gaming considering the costs. But every one of our ATI cards have some VC Vsync tearing and ATI has never fixed it for FSX or FS9.
Ted

[cvearl]

With nHancer loaded I do not have VSync tearing in the VCs of the aircraft either on my system or test systems we use at TechCorp. We use GTX260, GTX 275, and GTX 285 video cards for our testing. If we test ATI we use 256 bit interface cards only which cover the HD4850, Hd4870, HD5850 and HD5870 the 128 bit HD5750 was a big disappointment for gaming considering the costs. But every one of our ATI cards have some VC Vsync tearing and ATI has never fixed it for FSX or FS9.
Ted

Well 5750 is really kind of a budget card (~$150) that, at least around where I live, is priced against the GTS250 which it trades blows with in games regardless of memory bandwidth. Thankfully the rest of the family is 256bit past that point.

In WinXP, vSync force works in the ATI CCC Control Pannel for FSX and FS9. However in Vista/Win7 it does not. At least not without a 3rd part app simular to Nhancer. There is ATI tray tools for forcing vSync in Vista and Win7. I am testing the 10.3 drivers tonight I think though. Hopefully the CCC can force it now. But I doubt it.

So ultimately, when you open ATC on nVidia cards with vSync forced, you don't get the screen flash or blink? With ATI on Vista this only happens with vsync forced. This flash doe snot happen in XP thankfully.

I have to find an nVidia system to test this on (ATC window open and close) or grab an eval one of my own. If you can force vSync on Win7 64 without any screen flash in ATC window I will switch as I said. I really want 64bit for it's benefits to FSX. :)

Thanks for the info. :salute:

C.

[guzler]

What you are referring to is 128GB/s bandwidth speed not interface. All HD5850s except for ATI Radeon Mobility are 256bit interface
Ted

I see, another thing I have learnt today, my brain needs a rest !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[atf300]

let me chime in my ati problem (well not really, had it on nvidia as well)


ive changed gfx card to 5850 from an 8800 gtx which died.

the sim runs smoother now (almost no micros stutters , that plagued me before in tongass) ,
but some of the addons make my fps drop , some more some less . the addons are :

Carenado 185
Captain Sim 130
Iris PC 9

the Iris PC 9 is the worst ( going from a smooth 27 to 17 ) , the thing is that ive had the same problem with the 8800 gtx , driver try and error helped with that , but i could never get the driver which gave good fps totally stutter free . With ati, i dont have that many driver choices .

im running all this on a i7 oc to 4.2 , 6gb cl7 ram. xp64

did any one experience anything similar ? i read somewhere that it could be the reflections in the cockpit and the alpha channel , but i dont know how to fix that . the only other thing i could think of is to reinstall windows , which i didnt do when i swapped cards, just uninstall drivers and safe mode driver sweeper.

any help will be appreciated . tnx !!

[harleyman]

Those addons are a bit hard on most systems..but Yea, it might have something to do with what you said.

maybe check with theor support sight and see what others are doing to fix that problem..

I see no need to reinstall windows... Its not a window problem I think...

You have plenty of CPU thats for sure. i would suspect the add ons...

[atf300]

as i said, must be a driver problem, had the same issue with nvidias, only one driver worked .

found one more addons where this is exhibited : the 1.5 version of the duke

[guzler]

I've got the CS 130 and mine runs fine, I7 920 2.66Mhz. I've used two drivers for the 5850 and not really noticed any differences between them. Can't comment on the others as I don't have them. Computers are just like women !!!!

[atf300]

which drivers did you use and which os ?

[EgoR64]

Hi,

I moved to an ATI 4890 other than the fan noise which Goes away after it warms up this card does a really good job with FSX, My FSX Happy was a Simple increase in the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=140 - 180.

Dunno why, but FSX was Smoother after the change -

Cheers -

[guzler]

which drivers did you use and which os ?

Driver 8.69 currently and Win7 64bit