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Piglet
January 25th, 2010, 19:59
Just saw this vid.
Looks cool!
http://www.aero-tv.net/?videoid=caca4586-bb28-41e0-bbae-0707641feffe

DennyA
January 25th, 2010, 20:06
That is one nice-looking aircraft!

Naki
January 25th, 2010, 20:24
Not really a new aircraft though...its a really a Czech Sport Cruiser and we already have a few of these here at our local airport for over a year or so, but agree nice looking aircraft.

Lionheart
January 25th, 2010, 21:12
This is a huge selling plane in Europe. Its built by Aerospeel. I have had many requests to make this. She is one sharp looking bird.


It looks like for Piper, the rudder is slightly different, the center console is changed, and the stock model will have rear 3/4 windows.


Sweet looking plane. These things actually take up gliders in Europe. Glider tow planes....





Bill

Kiwikat
January 25th, 2010, 21:15
It looks especially cool outfitted with those Dynon screens! Hi tech stuff for a LSA. I guess the Cessna Skycatcher is also pretty hi tech with its garmin units.

I wonder how much cheaper the piper will be vs the cessna? :kilroy:

Lionheart
January 25th, 2010, 21:16
The Piper's price tag is set at about $140K.





Bill

Kiwikat
January 25th, 2010, 21:19
The Piper's price tag is set at about $140K.

That REALLY hurts! The 162 is around $110K. Wheeeew!

They are very different planes, but I would have thought piper would try to keep it cheaper than cessna.

Naki
January 25th, 2010, 21:32
There is a cheaper version - as per the link:


PiperSport will be available within a few weeks and in three variants -- The PiperSport, which sells for $119,900; the PiperSport LT (primarily a training model), which sells for $129,900; and the PiperSport LTD (professional model), which sells for $139,900. Each model features leather seats, a 100-hp Rotax 912 engine, and a BRS complete aircraft parachute recovery system

Edit: I wonder how that price compares to the Czech Sport Cruiser?

Lionheart
January 25th, 2010, 22:20
I believe the Cessna Skycatcher sells for $110K USD. The Piper will come with an optional steam gauge panel, basics..

Bottom line, what is faster, more reliable, more fun, nicer and sportier looking.

The lower wing might be in the way, but I would take the Piper over the Cessna. Sharp looking bird.




Bill

Francois
January 25th, 2010, 23:50
And then the production went (already?) to China and they're making a huge profit on them again.... :icon_lol:

I think Cessna is building a 162 in China?

Naki
January 26th, 2010, 00:19
Yep the 162 is been built in China....

Bill where did you get the name "Aerospeel" from? I always thought they were built by the Czech Sport Aircraft or Czech Aircraft Works...heres another article

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/01/25/337534/piper-enters-the-light-sport-market.html

expat
January 26th, 2010, 01:11
Appreciate the post. Interesting aircraft concept. I will be over in Vero Beach - where Piper is based and where I do my flight training - in about a month and may have to try to schmooz my way into a free demo flight!:running:

alca
January 26th, 2010, 06:36
Naki, the Aerospool company is producing WT-9 Dynamic ultralight aircraft (www.aerospool.sk (http://www.aerospool.sk)). It looks similar, but is a fiber glass design. The new Piper (or Sportcruiser previously) was designed from beginning as LSA. I do not know if Dynamic holds a LSA certification in the US. Based on the news in Czech aviation press, the new Piper should still be produced in the Czech Republic.

:salute:
Cheers, Josef

cheezyflier
January 26th, 2010, 07:38
I have had many requests to make this.


well? are you just gonna drop a few crumbs and leave us hangin?
or are you gonna tell us if you're doin it or not? :kilroy:

Lionheart
January 26th, 2010, 07:49
The Piper Sport 'is' the WT-9 Dynamic. They are importing it to America. They have added subtle changes to the design, but overall, its a Czech plane (by Aerospool) that is imported by Piper.




well? are you just gonna drop a few crumbs and leave us hangin?
or are you gonna tell us if you're doin it or not? :kilroy:


Yes. I have been working for two weeks on it. I had planned to make it early last year and built up a huge data base on it. I hate to say anything about it as I still have several planes going, well, 3. This makes number 4. But the interest is spiking, so its priority might be shifted. I didnt know Piper was releasing it so soon. I was going for the WT-9 as its MASSIVELY popular in Europe. Having it for FS would be great for the Europeans for learning about the plane with.


Bill

cheezyflier
January 26th, 2010, 09:45
schweeeeeeeet!!!!!

lookin forward to it, as well as the others you have comin up :applause:

Naki
January 26th, 2010, 11:21
Guys - I am totally confused. Its my understanding that the Piper based aircaft is based on Czech Sports Sports Criuiser not the WT-9 Dynamic. Refer to the Flight Global article above. The WT-9 Dynamic is totally different plane, although there appears to have been a connection between the two at one time but they have now gone their seperate ways with Sports Cruiser now distributed by Piper.

Check these sites out and read the first page in the first link:

http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/home.html


http://www.aerospool.sk/?str=ul&lang=en

Lionheart
January 26th, 2010, 13:11
Naki, you are correct.

I was just corrected by the American office for Aerospool. Piper is bringing in the Sport Cruiser, not the WT-9 Dynamic.

My humble apologies over this mistake.

They are two very similar planes, identical canopies, cowlings, landing gear skirts, rear quarter windows.


The Sport Cruiser is fully aluminum and doesnt have the composite carbonfiber fuselage. The rudder is much different as well.


Thanks Naki for the information and links.

Neat plane, none the less.



Bill

Naki
January 26th, 2010, 13:24
No problems..both look like great planes. :ernae: I didn't read Josefs post properly as he was correct in the first place. Presumably Bill you are making the WT-9 Dynamic not the Sport Crusier?

Lionheart
January 26th, 2010, 13:52
No problems..both look like great planes. :ernae: I didn't read Josefs post properly as he was correct in the first place. Presumably Bill you are making the WT-9 Dynamic not the Sport Crusier?

Yes, the Dynamic.

I'll be saved from all the bump mapping on the fuselage. :d

Lionheart
January 26th, 2010, 14:17
Here are some screenshots of the Sport Cruiser and WT-9 Dynamic side by side.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4307849314_2044cf721f.jpg
Sport Cruiser

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2736/4307107547_1120a9f6ea.jpg
Sport Cruiser


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2774/4307107027_8652925a2a.jpg
WT-9 Dynamic

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4017/4307848608_057ae839c5.jpg
WT-9 Dynamic

Note the similarity in the canopy. Almost identicle.

ryanbatc
January 26th, 2010, 17:41
Nice avatar piglet lol

I'm liking this piper LSA entry. It looks really sleek. I do also like the Skycatcher though. This whole LSA thing is making flying affordable again.

Piglet
January 26th, 2010, 19:41
I figured it was a Euro import. Cool that it's all metal.

alca
January 26th, 2010, 21:47
Bill,

it is a good news! :applause: Dynamic would be a great addition to our hangars.


Back to the Sport Cruiser. Before going under Piper "wings" the Czech Sport Aircraft works expressed the intention to develop a training variant of it, capable of basic aerobatics. Let us see....

Josef

Rimshot
February 28th, 2010, 01:49
Incidentally I came across this post again, only to read you're building a Dynamic, Bill. Great news! I take lessons in the one below. It's a fantastioc little airplane with impressive performance. Let me know if I can help in any way :)


810
811
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/misc/pencil.png
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/misc/pencil.png

Lionheart
February 28th, 2010, 06:29
Hey Rimshot,

Awesome. I certainly will. I'll need some input on its handling, speeds, etc. I am working with the factory also, but this might be just as good if you are flying it weekly.

Thanks for the offer.

Looks like a really nice one.



Bill

Rimshot
February 28th, 2010, 14:36
The Dynamic is brand new and was delivered to our flying club November of last year. So far I've only logged one hour in her. I hope to fly her again soon. Weather is clearing up overhere the coming week :jump:

Wing Nut
February 28th, 2010, 15:03
pardon for sidelining this thread but the commercial for that Cirrus jet really caught my eye. Anybody know anything about it?

Ken Stallings
February 28th, 2010, 15:08
I agree that the Piper aircraft is aesthetically superior to the Cessna LSA.

However, I am concerned with the prices of these two LSA's and also by the reduction in domestic construction. When it was originally announced in concept, the Cessna 162 was to be domestically constructed and priced in the $50,000 to $60,000 range. That is why peoples' excitement was so high, and why so much disappointment was aired throughout the industry with the final result.

Instead, the Cessna 162 is priced at $140,000 and made in the PRC.

Piper is doing much better on the price with an expected cost of about $100,000. However, this still puts the aircraft slightly outside the cost structure most middle income people are willing to plunk down. I fully realize there is a vast difference in required training (and therefore training costs and time) involved, but to put this into comparison, a new Piper LSA costs only $10,000 to $30,000 less than a 1970's to 1980's vintage used high performance twin engine aircraft, and about $50,000 more than a 1980's and even early 1990's vintage Cessna 172SP.

Airplanes well cared for last a very long time and the prices I quoted are for high quality (well maintained) used aircraft. That $50,000 to $60,000 cost structure would have offered a real revolution in personal aircraft ownership. It would have put a 15 to 20-year loan in the range of an average new car payment. Combined with the new aircraft depreciation option, it would have leveraged an undertapped market. The resulting expansion of the GA market would have applied cost pressures to lower prices of avionics and likely have increased the pool of maintenance and avionics shops.

I'm certainly not privvied to the spreadsheets of Cessna and Piper, but I must conclude that there is too much excess cost built into these two LSA's. When I think of the technologies in these two designs I cannot come to any other conclusion but that the two designs are still over priced for their intended markets. I'm not sure what must be done, but on a purely objective consideration, I refuse to believe it is impossible for an establish US-based aircraft company to build a $50,000 to $60,000 LSA and construct it within the nation to keep our aviation industry healthy and vibrant.

Further, I am more convinced that if that barrier were broken, that it would realize advantages elsewhere that are truly underappreciated by nearly the entire aviation industry.

Cheers,

Ken

Naki
February 28th, 2010, 15:16
I had sit in one at a recent local airshow...not bad...now if only had a spare $NZ200,000 ...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l193/Naki_04/DSCF8699.jpg

Ken Stallings
February 28th, 2010, 16:56
Wow!

Based on the conversion rate I found online, that's a cool $140,000!

That's substantially more that what Piper's charging for essentially the same aircraft!

And I thought $100,000 was bad! :isadizzy:

If I recall correctly, the original price of a 1977 C-172N was $22,300. Inflation and cost of living have increased about three fold since then. So that means talking apples to apples, that Skyhawk in 1977 should be priced around $67,000 today. This for a 160hp, four-place aircraft.

So, this is why I believe if the concerted effort were made that an LSA should, and can, be sold for $50,000 to $60,000.

Looked at another way, in 1977 an average annual family income was right at the sale price of a Skyhawk. Today, it should be only $45,000. So, that's another measure which shows how things have gotten so out of kilter.

Anyway, I'm jousting windmills, standing upon a soapbox, spitting into the wind, tugging on Superman's cape ... all that sort of stuff. :mixedsmi:

Ken

Lionheart
February 28th, 2010, 18:56
I had sit in one at a recent local airshow...not bad...now if only had a spare $NZ200,000 ...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l193/Naki_04/DSCF8699.jpg

They are a nice looking little plane. No doubt. They have some cool little storage boxes in the wings.


Ken,

I know what you mean on costs... Who will be able to afford that. But at least we have some new planes coming out.

Dad, years ago, bought a 172 and then a 152 new, ordered them from the factory. Back then, they were about 20K. The 152 was one awesome little plane new. Too bad it was just a two seater. I was a little young to remember our 172. The new 182 is just awesome. At 120 knots, you push that throttle in and she presses you back in the seat until you max out at about 140 to 150 knots. The old 172's sure cant do that, lol...



Bill

Sundog
March 1st, 2010, 00:29
If you're looking for affordability, think Sonex (http://www.sonexaircraft.com/). Depending on what you put into it, you could build one for as little as $20K. Although, with everything I would want, it would be $30K. Of course, the version I want wouldn't qualify as an LSA because it would be too fast. :)

Of course, there is also the Tailwind Lionheart modeled, which is one of my favorites. As well as the RV series. But in terms of performance for cost, the Sonex is hard to beat.

Lionheart
March 1st, 2010, 02:37
Ok, wait.. I have something less expensive...

:d