Any freeware aircraft which can perform Pugachev's Cobra?

[TheOptimist]

This is for the benefit of a screenshot competition I'd like to enter, the deadline for which is coming up fairly soon.

I severely doubt this, but are there any freeware aircraft which can perform a flat cobra? I've tried in a couple (270 knots, ramming the stick back) but I've got no AOA limiter to turn off, and I just end up entering a vertical climb rather than rotating around the lateral axis.

It has to be freeware, payware is not allowed in this competition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9w6HWmyZ3g - This guy manages a semi-decent one (he gains a lot of altitude so it needs polishing) but I don't know which aircraft he's flying.

Ideally I'd like an SU-27 or alike, just because it is fitting.

Is it even possible? Thank you in advance for your replies.

[Wittpilot]

If it's a screenshot competition... whats stopping you from putting the plane in slew and snapping it?

[TheOptimist]

:icon_lol: I can see what you mean, and without knowing my idea my original post must look very stupid!

I don't intend to capture the plane at just one point in the manouvre (which would of course be easy, like you said). Instead I intend to fly the whole thing, then with FSRecorder put in 'ghost' planes, to show the entire manouvre. Once I've done it I'll post it here. I do definately need a plane capable of doing it to achieve the aim though.

I've stumbled across a su-27 pack that says it can do it, I won't have a chance to try until the morning now. Still, if anyone has any aircraft that they know can do it for sure then let me know.

Thanks.

[tigisfat]

The default hornet can do it, as can piglet's freeware Zlin and the KBT Super Hornet. There are tons that can do it.

I don't know if a screenshot can really help you determine if it has been performed.

[TheOptimist]

Hmmm. What am I doing wrong then?

In the Hornet for example, do you just slow to around 270knots then pull back hard? The real hornet definately couldn't perform the manouvre, so I'm a bit surprised that the FSX version can! The HARV can but the stock FA18 doesn't have the capability.

I've come across a few aircraft that can do it to some extent but they gain a lot of altitude in the process. Minimum altitude gain is preferred.

Also, as for the screenshot, it will make sense when the time comes.

[MenendezDiego]

default hornet, set trim full up

[djscoo]

If you slow to 270 knots, you'll just gain altitude. If you go full afterburner in level flight and get up to speed, the cut power and pull back you'll do a pseudo-cobra in the default Hornet. It may not be realistic, but it gets the job done. Also, I've seen the real life Hornet do some pretty high alpha maneuvers. Specifically the minimal radius turn at airshows, but when it pulls up the nose is straight up in the air and its still got a lot of forward momentum. It may not be a true cobra but still impressive.

[TheOptimist]

In real life it's done at that speed because any higher and you'd be tearing the aircraft apart/GLOC'ing the pilot. Honestly I can't see how doing it faster will do anything but make me go into a vertical climb/loop.

I'll give it a go in the morning, I'll try this SU-27 that apparently can do it properly (I want a proper one or none at all!). Thanks for all your input, I might post a video if I pull off a true cobra.

[Daube]

You can give a try to Piglet's Mitsubishi F-1 if I'm not mistaken.
Its "flying brick" flight model might allow a nice Cobra. Be prepared for a severe stall during your desperate recovery ;)
It's been a while since I tried that manoeuver, now that I think about it... thanks for the idea :)

[tigisfat]

The real life hornet can perform the cobra, both in legacy and super hornet editions. There was actually software installed to prevent it from happening because pugachev's cobra offers little to no advantage on legacy hornets.

The cobra and super cobra maneuvers are both functions of extreme angle of attack, not attitude or speed. Keep in mind that AOA is the angular difference between the relative wind and the wing chord. What flight regime are high angles of attack most commonly found? Slow airspeeds. Slow your aircraft way down to perform the cobra. 270KIAS is way too much. The default hornet can actually perform tailslides and falling leaf maneuvers.

@theoptimist: There isn't a large g load associated with the cobra maneuver. A vertical acceleration is required to impart positive and negative G's. The idea of the cobra is to open up AOA while maintaining the same flight path. Make sense?

[dominikx]

Alphasim Su 33 can do it






:salute:http://www.avsim.com/pages/0507/Su33/1----Su33-Exterior-1.jpg

[Railrunner130]

I found it on wikipedia at one time. There's actually a lot of information available, including other, similar manouvers. There's also a list of aircraft that can perform those manouvers as well.

[viking3]

A little OT but I have seen the CF-18 do some wild high AOA maneuvers. One guy had the thing almost 'waddling' down down the showline at about 100 knots and maybe 30+ AOA. I was sure he was gonna fall out of the sky but he just powered up and climbed away. They also like perfoming the 'square' loop in which they pitch up quite severely before the power pulls them through the 90. Sorry to wander, just brought some great memories of airshows past.

Regards, Rob:ernae:

[TheOptimist]

The real life hornet can perform the cobra, both in legacy and super hornet editions. There was actually software installed to prevent it from happening because pugachev's cobra offers little to no advantage on legacy hornets.

Are we talking about the same cobra? I don't just mean a high AOA (60 degrees), I mean full 110-120 degree AOA. I'm sorry but I remain completely unconvinced that the FA-18 can perform the manouvre. I've been looking everywhere for evidence that it can but I've found nothing. Do you have a link? Also, the FA-18 can achieve the AOA but only with a significant verticle climb, at which point it's no longer a true cobra. Of course the hornet can also do the hornet walk, but that's nothing like a cobra either. I'd love to be proved wrong!

The cobra and super cobra maneuvers are both functions of extreme angle of attack, not attitude or speed. Keep in mind that AOA is the angular difference between the relative wind and the wing chord. What flight regime are high angles of attack most commonly found? Slow airspeeds. Slow your aircraft way down to perform the cobra. 270KIAS is way too much. The default hornet can actually perform tailslides and falling leaf maneuvers.

My general research has shown that between 200 and 270 knots is standard for SU-27's. Perhaps not for a Hornet, but as I said I'm sure they can't do this properly :icon_lol:.

@theoptimist: There isn't a large g load associated with the cobra maneuver. A vertical acceleration is required to impart positive and negative G's. The idea of the cobra is to open up AOA while maintaining the same flight path. Make sense?

I don't know much about the G loads imparted during the cobra, although common sense tells me there will be a fair few! If you're doing 270 knots and pull towards you as hard as you can you sure are going to feel it! The whole point is to decelerate very very quickly. I'll try and find something on this.

Edit: The SU-27 I downloaded pulled it off beautifully. It took a hell of a lot of practise though. I'll post a link to the aircraft later.

[TheOptimist]

Thought I'd post a quick update.

Below are a few screenshots of a relatively successful cobra. The aircraft used can be found here: http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/perlfect/search/search.pl?p=1&lang=en&include=&exclude=&penalty=5&mode=all&q=flanker - it's the 60mb one.

The method used is as follows (in Lehmans terms);

1. Around 200 knots.
2. Full down trim (hold '1' on the numberpad)
3. Quickly idle thrust
4. Rag your stick back
5. Apply full power when you are beyond the vertical
6. Nose down

These screenshots demonstrate what I was able to achieve, it's not perfect because of my height gain but that's just because I was a little fast.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/%5BURL=http://img3.imageshack.us/i/cobra1g.jpg/%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8171/cobra1g.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D

[Daube]

I wish somebody would create a nice freeware Flanker with a virtual cockpit :/

[peter12213]

So do I, even a payware one I can't understand why we've never got one its such an iconic and fun aircraft both to watch and to fly I would think!

[Daube]

So do I, even a payware one I can't understand why we've never got one its such an iconic and fun aircraft both to watch and to fly I would think!
There are payware Flankers with virtual cockpits already, but they are for FS9 and I don't know if they port to FSX nicely or not...

[jmig]

*He feels a bit like Rip Van Winkle waking up*

I never knew you could do this with an airplane like the F-18. Amazing.

I can see why the military doesn't consider it a practical maneuver. Unless it slows you down like NOW and makes your adversary overshoot, all you are doing is giving him a bigger gun target.

:gameoff:

[Cazzie]

It's not a jet, but the new freeware Zivko Edge 540 for FSX and FS9 (available at FlightSim and Simviation) can do a Cobra, just don't try it close to the ground like TO in his Flanker. :icon_lol:

It is also an excellent little aircraft for the Lomcevak maneuver. Whoo-Hoo, good roller-coaster ride!

Read the PDF and do not do aerobatics with the wing tanks full. :ernae:

Caz