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Devildog73
December 23rd, 2009, 16:26
When I fly missions from Dobodura to Wewak using any P-38F model on drop tanks with my own or auto fuel adjutment I run the drop tanks dry and have to switch over to my wing tanks which are full on manual fuel management, as is my Reserve tank. I skin the drop tanks for drag issues as in real flight back in the '40s. No problemo.

In any of David C. Copley's P-38s no matter what I do manual or auto fuel management, I am out of fuel at Wewak. I can fly at 50% throttle and still be out of fuel.

I know this is not real life the way it was. I am building missions based upon actual missions from the 5th Air Force history. P-38s, all variants had the range to fly these missions.

How do I correct which file value to make Copley's Lightnings realistic?

ckissling
December 23rd, 2009, 16:57
Devildog
I would check the air files for the amount of fuel each is carrying,
the p-38F may carry more fuel or have more tanks listed. ckissling

Rockster234
December 23rd, 2009, 17:46
Are you warping...........???

Are you using a converted FS9 to CFS2 ........and if so.........did they use the original aircraft.cfg file

FS2004 fuel gauges and fuel config..............may not work in CFS2

See aircraft.cfg.......

fuel_air_auto_mixture= 0????

[fuel]
//xp-38 had 400 gal, others had either 300 or 410 (F-H and Some early J's had 300)
LeftMain=-2.400000,-3.300000,0.000000,90.000000,0.000000 //Nose: Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
RightMain=-2.400000,3.300000,0.000000,90.000000,0.000000
LeftAux=0.600000,-3.800000,0.000000,60.000000,0.000000
RightAux=0.600000,3.800000,0.000000,60.000000,0.00 0000
//mid&late J, L and M had wing tanks
//LeftTip=-0.500000,-20.000000,0.000000,55.000000,0.000000
//RightTip=-0.500000,20.000000,0.000000,55.000000,0.000000

This may be important?????

// ** remove '//' to use external tanks **



//External1=-0.600000,-4.00000,-2.400000,150.0000,0.000000 //external tanks (std. would be 150 to 165 US gal; from G on, could be 300 or 310 for very long range)
//External2=-0.600000,4.00000,-2.400000,150.0000,0.000000
fuel_type=1.000000
number_of_tank_selectors=2
electric_pump=1


fuel_flow_scalar= 1.000

All of which are complex and not CFS2.........???


Also, go to abacuspub.com and get flight dynamic editor...........

open the air.file

The center tanks are listed .......but have no fuel quantity?????

So ......maybe have to work in tandem????


Great model......by the way.............

Oglivie
December 23rd, 2009, 18:17
Historical Fuel Qtys
P-38E/F/G: 300 gal internal
P-38J(late)/L/M: 410 gal internal

Air File (with AirEd utility)
===================
There are a multitude of various possibilities

section 312
fuel weight per gallon, must be at 6.000
CFS2 appears to use fuel rate based on pounds. If it is less than 6 pounds, CFS2 will see this as less fuel qty. Sample: If it is set 3 pounds per gallon, CFS2 will read this as half the fuel that is set in the fuel sections of the air file.

sections 525,526,maybe 531, should add up to correct fuel qty

section 534 & 535 for drop tank qty

section 505 piston engine
Things that may effect high fuel consumption:
To high of compression
prop start delay should be .035
low altitude supercharger = 1.00 (maybe?)

perhaps compare to another 38 file for input

sections 508 thru 512
should be set correctly

Section 1101, check drag coefficients and skin friction coefficient.

compare to another 38, make backup of air file and adjust or delete and copy a section from another 38 file. Perhaps a 1% 38 air file will do for comparison.


Warping in CFS2 with multi-engine drains the tanks too quickly. Recomend the fuel dump gauge for multi-engine warping.

Oglivie
December 23rd, 2009, 19:29
All of which are complex and not CFS2.........???
Rockster,

I speculate that some of FS entries in the aircraft.cfg are only used by FS and are not used by the CFS2 engine (would be interesting to do some experimenting to see for sure). A good sample, I think, of CFS2 entries used by CFS2 are the stock aircraft.cfg s, although there may be a few other entries that could be used. FS2002/2004 flight sims (including CFS2) reads the entries it requires from the aircraft.cfg first, and then reads the air file. If any required entries are not in the aircraft.cfg the sim will search the air file for them.

Rockster234
December 23rd, 2009, 19:42
You are probably correct...........

I never know which aircraft.cfg text works and which don't from fs2002 and fs2004 to cfs2

I just take out everything that is not common to a stock aircraft........

Still here's another thing to consider..............

Open air.file with Flight Dynamic Editor........

change wing tanks to number 2's center tank to number 2's and drop tanks to number 1's.......is that allowable.........??? if you don't have wings tanks.......you may not be able to start your aircraft???? I have never tried that....

so first you use drops....then use wings??/

maybe change your center tank and drop tanks to 1's and wing tanks to 2's

put a little gas in the center .....so you don't throw off the Center of Gravity???

even with that done...............center tank has no fuel.........check that it is critical not to unbalance the aircraft

Currently total fuel with drop tanks ......

P-38F

wings 2x205 gals= 410
center 1x0 gals =0
drop 2x150 gals=300

Total =710 gals


is that correct to get you where you need to go???

I also agree that.......if you take out all the engine and fuel data from the aircraft.cfg from the 2004 model..............you may have to play with the engine data in Flight Dynamic Editor.......

Here's the rub......devil dog hopes someone......(probably done already) has released a cfs2 aircraft.cfg and air.file that has address this ump'teen times in the past............

So stay tuned..........it probably will surface.

Oglivie
December 23rd, 2009, 20:26
Open air.file with Flight Dynamic Editor........

change wing tanks to number 2's center tank to number 2's and drop tanks to number 1's.......is that allowable.........??? if you don't have wings tanks.......you may not be able to start your aircraft???? I have never tried that....

As far as I know about this is that the -44 entries with FDE are 1 for internal fuel and 2 for drop tanks. I although I'm not quite clear about these entries either.


so first you use drops....then use wings??/

When CFS2 flight realism is set to auto fuel management, CFS2 uses drop tank fuel first and then uses fuel from all internal tanks at the same rate. With out auto fuel management the fuel tank selector can be used to select whatever tank one wishes to use, normaly drop tanks first.


maybe change your center tank and drop tanks to 1's and wing tanks to 2's
put a little gas in the center .....so you don't throw off the Center of Gravity???
even with that done...............center tank has no fuel.........check that it is critical not to unbalance the aircraft
Currently total fuel with drop tanks ......

P-38F

wings 2x205 gals= 410
center 1x0 gals =0
drop 2x150 gals=300

Total =710 gals

is that correct to get you where you need to go???

I guess some experimenting and testing to do there. Cheers.

Sarg Willy
December 23rd, 2009, 21:08
I use air ed version no 3 ini file for Cfs-2 ,,, and when I set up fuel tanks ,, the last section is marked unknown ,,, This applies to user,s on Manuel fuel control ONLY ,,, never tryed with Auto fuel ,,, so the results may be different for Auto fuel ,,,
Back to the unknown part ,,, I always leave one tank usually the main tank listing no 1 tank as set to unknown=1 ,,,, and all other consecutive tank no,s 2,3,4,5 are all set to unknown =2 ,, Under a warp condition the only tank to empty is unknown =1 ,,, all the others at unknown =2 stay at full level ,, and that allows me to control long distance milage ,,,

Devildog73
December 24th, 2009, 03:36
Okay, yes, I am warping. Dobo to Wewak flat out at full power is 1:25 hour flight. At cruise speed 1:55. Nobody is going to want to fly that in real time even for the excellent combat at the other end.

I think that DCC's P-38's are 2002 or 2004 conversions to CFS2.

If I manual fuel it using drops first in all other aircraft, my wing tanks and center tanks are full, drops are BONE dry.
If I auto fuel mgmt it, ALL tanks are empty, essentially. I have 7% remaining upon arrival. From what I have read, even though the center tank is called RES on the switch, pilots used it for take off and climb to empty it out just for balance and flight dynamics.

I will open the aircraft config 1st and see what the values are and adjust if needed. Then use my aired to open the air file to adjust, if needed.

I will let you all know what I find.

Thanks for the info.

"I'll be back"

Devildog73
December 24th, 2009, 03:41
Warping in CFS2 with multi-engine drains the tanks too quickly. Recomend the fuel dump gauge for multi-engine warping.

Okay, please explain........:bump:

Devildog73
December 24th, 2009, 03:57
Great model......by the way.............

Rockster, ABSOLUTELY A JOY TO FLY! I love this aircraft, except for the fuel management. Short term for the missions I am building, I am violating my principles and checked "unlimited fuel" in the settings menu.

I like to keep things as close to real without bullets as I can get them.

I will eventually get around to getting into the config and air files.

Oglivie
December 24th, 2009, 10:39
Okay, please explain........:bump:

DD,

Gauge allows to put fuel in tank at any time. Can select the qty of fuel in percent. Allows to dump fuel also. Can be helpful for warping when the tanks run dry, put more fuel in with the gauge. It is freeware, but do not know where to find at present. I attached in the zip.

Devildog73
December 25th, 2009, 08:01
Thanks Oglivie!

Also, found some of the problem(s).

The air file had center tank= 0.00000 for gallons of fuel. I changed it to allow for total of 400 between the 150 in each wing tank and put 100 in center tank.

Section 534 & 535 I accessed, but it was just a bunch of numbers that make no sense to me, so I left them alone.

I did enter the info into the aircraft.cfg though.

Devildog73
December 25th, 2009, 08:05
Another problem I have found though, .....
I put "Marge" skin on my P-38F stock aircraft and now drop tanks don't show. I have the fuel, just no visuals on the aircraft.

I used Hellcat44's repaint with Marge on the left side of the nose.

Why would the tanks NOT show up?

Rockster234
December 25th, 2009, 11:51
I first backed up all my stock P-38F files..........

I then installed B24 Guys Lighting Overhaul and Overhaul Update from Combat Flight Center..............that includes the model files, panel files, air.cfg, airfile, and dp.

I did not use the textures because I will add Bong_Textures below

I intalled the Lighting Overhaul update...including model and canopytexture

I Finally installed the Bong_Textures....

It works fine?????

Start from stock, backup and then reinstall??

Maybe you over rode your stock drop tanks ......or p-38f dp file???

Oglivie
December 27th, 2009, 12:46
Thanks Oglivie!

Also, found some of the problem(s).

The air file had center tank= 0.00000 for gallons of fuel. I changed it to allow for total of 400 between the 150 in each wing tank and put 100 in center tank.

Section 534 & 535 I accessed, but it was just a bunch of numbers that make no sense to me, so I left them alone.

I did enter the info into the aircraft.cfg though.


DD,

Here is section 534 & 535 with the AirEd utility program showing DTs for stock 38 with 150 gallons drop tanks. Maybe it will help you out some.

Devildog73
December 27th, 2009, 17:50
Thanks guys for all of the help.

I am up and running just fine now.
Plenty of fuel for the missions, even with warping.

BIG difference!