Wings of Prey

[Old Crow]

Have not seen anything on this posted. It looks very promising. :jump:

http://www.airwargame.com/eng/start/

[gajit]

Wow - well spotted Old Crow - that looks superb - did you see that winter landscaping as well as all the other great features :jump:

[X_eidos2]

I took a quick look at the video that they had a link to on that website.

The opening scene of the Hurricane taxiing out of the hanger reminded me of the fact that folks who make opening trailers for flight sim games or movies rarely know anything about how real airplanes operate. To the best of my knowledge, aircraft never start or run their engines inside a hanger. This video from the ASB website shows why

http://www.asb.tv/videos/view.php?v=d7e6120d&a=category&catID=21

When I worked at Eidos Interactive the guy tasked with making the opening game movie for Confirmed Kill (WW2 online fighter sim - never published) admitted that he had never seen a airplane with a propeller start it's engine and knew nothing about the clouds of smoke coming out the exhaust at start up.

[deimos256]

Wow, very impressive, looks to be a very complete game, all theaters, great visuals, looks like a decent damage model, Ill certainly buy it.

[centuryseries]

I guess on the whole aircraft don't start on run engines in a hangar but there are some exceptions - the first one that springs to mind is the SR-71 - but the front and back hangar doors open, so I guess it's not the same.

I did read a slightly scray account of an SR-71 in RAF Mildenhalls SR engine test hangar where the doors were not open enough at the front creating enough suction in burner that started to suck ground equipment and personnel towards the twin funnels swallowing the burners at the back of the hangar :icon_lol:

Shame no-one seems to be building a new modern sim, we're fairly well covered when it comes to WW2 and WW1, but I'm more interested in the jets that would be part of WW3!! Lockon is long in the tooth.

[MCDesigns]

Wow, this looks real impressive!

[ryanbatc]

Demo download available here:

http://www.gamershell.com/download_54548.shtml

user shots from avsim here (where I first heard of it)
http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=270893

http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=270996

[guzler]

Wow, this looks excellent. Those graphics look years ahead of CFS3.

[IanP]

Just started the demo downloading. Thanks for the heads-up. Looks good! :salute:

[tigisfat]

Aircraft start up and run inside of hangars all the time. There are hardened aircraft shelters, sun shelters, bunkers and all kinds of places aircraft are preflighted, serviced and launched from. Most of the time it's a security or weather issue.

[Scratch]

I've been playing the demo for a few days now and it is visually the best looking flight sim ever. It is way better looking than IL-2 1946 with the latest mods even. If you have a Saitek X-45 you will have to fly it from the keyboard which sucks big time. They have a fix coming out for that this month though. FMs are convincing enough to me. The sounds are really well done, but it's the atmosphere that will take your breath away at times. FSX can't even come close.

[DennyA]

Scratch, I have it working fine with the Saitek X-52. I just had to manually map all the joystick buttons and axes.

I haven't put a lot of time into this, but what I've played is awesome. Absolutely beautiful graphics engine, flight models feel good, though they've overmodeled accelerated stalls IL-2-style.

[ryanbatc]

After playing the demo this game looks very nice! Great environment, damage modeling, aircraft modeling, clouds/cloud shadows!

My question is: How to assign my HAT switch to look around cockpit and external camera view????

[guzler]

It says the minimum is a 3.2Hhz intel, anyone running the demo with less than that ? I have a 2.4Ghz sinlge at the moment, but would love to give it a go

[MCDesigns]

AACK, was about to run a couple of errands with the extra purpose of getting this at the store and just realized it's d/l only, bummer. I hope it hits the store soon, want to check it out.
I have no desire to do an online purchase (they don't accept paypal) and wait for it to d/l.:a1451:

[ryanbatc]

well i got my hat working. Just need to go to controls and assignments and set the hat switch to the view up/down/left/right stuff

[EgoR64]

:wavey:

Sweet - Thx for the HU -

Played Demo - Liked it - Downloading whooper 6.2GB -
Phew................


Cheers

[Scratch]

I borrowed my daughters joystick, an old Logitech Attack and I can finally shoot stuff down now. I enjoy watching the replays almost as much as flying. The graphics are top notch. It looks really cinematic. The terrain even looks better than that of Rise of Flight.

[Wittpilot]

I want to try it dang it... but I've downloaded it twice...each time the file being corrupt...any ideas?

[olaf1924]

I find that my msffb2 stick will not work with this demo. Is anyone using this stick for this game and how or what did you do to get it to work. I sure hope this is not another dud like blazing angels 2.

[ryanbatc]

I have a FFB2 stick works great. You need to set the axises in the profile->options area

You'll have to move the stick left to assign ailerons and forward to assign elevators, and twist for rudder. I have the CH throttle so thats my throttle axis.

[olaf1924]

ryan I tried what you said and still no luck with assigning functions. I am wondering if you can give me step by step instructions on how to assign functions for my stick? I can give you my email if needed. I have worn out buttion 8 on my stick.

[tigisfat]

Now why in the hell can't we get an awesome modern jet warfare game?

[ryanbatc]

Now why in the hell can't we get an awesome modern jet warfare game?

what I was thinkin

Oh I miss the days of Jane's.... :applause:

Anyway to the guy with the joystick problem. Have you gotten into the options screen where you setup the devices? That's where I was. Where it says aileron, you have to click the space and then move your stick when it asks to assign an axis.

[RyanJames170]

looks intresting.. im going to try it out

[olaf1924]

ryan I will give it a try one more time.

[Scratch]

I want to try it dang it... but I've downloaded it twice...each time the file being corrupt...any ideas?

I used the torrent on their site and it went pretty fast and worked well.

[c87]

I've been flying the demo, mainly on tutorial to get a feel for it this past weekend. Granted, I'm an eye-candy simmer more than a flight-model grognard so I might be a bit biased, but this is the best looking flight sim I've ever seen. I think it even beats FSX on a great day. The White Cliffs of Dover have never looked so good. It's definitely worth giving it a shot seeing as how they have a free demo.

[VFR Reviews]

Really looks pretty good to me :)

I shall have to have a gander, so thanks for the HU :ernae:

[TheOptimist]

In theory I will love this, but I have a few problems to overcome first.

1. Do they not support an FSX-style mouse arrangement? If you set the mouse as the aileron and elevator axis's it doesn't behave like fsx - if you move the mouse far right, for example, it only turns a limited amount. Then you have to jiggle the mouse back and forth to get it to roll. I guess I need a joystick.

2. I wish wish wish they had done a little more on the flight dynamics. You can stall this thing by farting.

[EgoR64]

:wavey:


I dove in - 6.2GB to download all nighter - well worth it, Using a Cyborg X Joystick, By using the Key Mappings & mixture of Device Settings I have it setup perfect.

Graphics are Insane - :applause::ernae::applause:

Damage is good -

To make it fun - make sure to fly in the Simulator mode and use your Map often to find the Enemy - Arcade mode is to easy and the little red/yellow triangles will just make it more confusing -

Great stuff - Thumbs Up -

Funnest I have had since Lock-on came out - :guinness:

Many Cheers -

[Scratch]

In theory I will love this, but I have a few problems to overcome first.

2. I wish wish wish they had done a little more on the flight dynamics. You can stall this thing by farting.

That has been a huge weakness of all Il-2 games is the flight model, esp. the stalls. No matter what a/c you fly it feels like you are balancing on the head of a pin. Of all the flight sims that have come out in the last ten years IL-2 FMs are the worst. WOP is a little better it seems, but still too close to other IL-2 products.

[CodyValkyrie]

So I am taking it that this is not much of simulator, but more of an arcade style game? How are the instruments, etc?

[d0mokun]

If it's a PC 'port' of the console IL2: Birds of Prey (which it looks very much like), then it's not so much a simulator- definitely a game. It focuses more on the shooting with little in the way of instrument watching, systems etc.

I guess it could be summed up as an IL2 game for the masses; which is good. It's fun.

[CodyValkyrie]

It's a port it seems of the of the console game, and they play almost exactly the same but this obviously is for the computer. Not for serious simmers, but damn fun. I shot down a whole german flight of JU-88 bombers in about 3 minutes. LOTS of parachutes all around.

[Ark]

If it's a PC 'port' of the console IL2: Birds of Prey (which it looks very much like), then it's not so much a simulator- definitely a game. It focuses more on the shooting with little in the way of instrument watching, systems etc.

I guess it could be summed up as an IL2 game for the masses; which is good. It's fun.


It may be a port, but not one like you would think. It is obvious that the development team has spent and is spending quite a bit more time with the PC version (no "press triangle for eject!". The graphics being the best looking I have ever see in a flight simulator (The scenery doesn't even "pop-in"!). IMO, they make FSX quite poor in comparison and the performance is excellent. The FM is similar to IL-2's but seems to be improved in some ways as well, and the support from the developer is amazing.

Dedicated servers and quite a few other things are also "in the pipeline" it seems. Responses from the developer in their forum is refreshing as are the, so far, very quick updates. In the past week or so there have been about 4 updates (IIRC).

The fact that I can run a game that looks this good at 2560x1600 with 6xFSAA and 16xAF in-game at "Ultra High settings" is extraordinary. The amazing performance coupled with the very smooth TrackIR movements is a flight experience like no other I have experienced on my PC. Amazingly, since purchasing WoP a few days ago, I have not even touched FS9 or FSX. I used to play each for hours on end...not any more. Both of which I still love.

WoP, to me, is sort of what I wanted IL-2 to look/feel like (though I know that probably wasn't possible at the time). It is so immersive with the visual environment and whatnot it just draws you in. Is the FM perfect? No. Does the product need work? Yes, but so do most others. However, this title IS getting worked on. The devleopers are active within the community and it seems like they listen to what people have to say. I also heard the team working on WoP is fairly large so that may attribute to the great support.

It may not be as accurate FM wise as....I don't know, what WWII flightsim out there is accurate FM wise, lol? But it is not a simple "arcade" game. It does have some arcade elements (starting in the air on some maps, I believe...but even this is one of the things the developers may be changing), but it is quite good. The are various settings, starting with arcade or simple (can't remember which) and moving up to Realistic and Simulation. At the higher realism settings, I do believe engine management is a pretty big factor (the mapping screen looks a LOT like the mapping screen from IL-2 key wise).

It really is a product that should not be missed by WWII sim pilots. I really do think it is that good. Some may disagree, but the title has been well received thus far. If the development team sticks with it and continues to create improvements/additions, I could see WoP being a really heavy hitter i the flight simulation market.

On a side note, I challenge somebody to find me a video of a flight sim product that draws you in as much as this (well, if you like WWII sims, lol):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU8ZnA02g2g

:ernae:

[Ark]

It's a port it seems of the of the console game, and they play almost exactly the same but this obviously is for the computer. Not for serious simmers.

I am going to have to disagree with you regarding the "not for serious simmers" comment. WoP offers options that are plenty intensive (with room for improvement as is true for all sims) with regards to the flying experience.

If you are a fan of the IL-2 series, you can get into WoP pretty easily. At the maximum realism settings it is pretty darn good. The comparison videos betwen IL-2 and WoP out there offer some pretty decent insight. :)

The best part is the development team seems to be pretty devoted to the product. I can't wait to see what they come up with in the coming months.


...............now if I can just convince the RoF team to "switch" over to WoP's graphics engine (not the RoF looks bad by any stretch of the imagination). :D

[Bjoern]

Now why in the hell can't we get an awesome modern jet warfare game?

Strike Fighters.


WoP looks like a nice arcarde graphics demo.

[deathfromafar]

I have the sim and it is the best WW2 simulation I have seen yet in many aspects. It flies very well with believable dynamics and solid feel. There are selectable levels of realism from simple arcade like modeling to difficult levels. The weapon modeling is very good as is the damage modeling. The exteriors, VC's, and terrain all look excellent. I have not trouble running the game at max levels and getting ultra smooth frame rates. This is the best all around air combat simulation I have seen since the then excellent CFS1 and 2 came out. It's a winner in my book! Got a lot to delve into getting to know this sim. As noted above, perhaps there are some things the developer may change to suit a wider group of PC pilots. I am happy as hell with it.

[DennyA]

It cracks me up when I see the IL-2 fanboys in other forums who feel the need to criticize the flight models when anyone else dares make a sim. IL-2's models are on the numbers, but stalls are ridiculously overmodeled and are way too easy to enter compared to when flying a real plane, where you get g-force and buffeting cues.

Amusingly, there's a development/licensing connection between Wings of Prey and IL-2, and they actually carried over quite a bit of the IL-2 flight modeling, including the ridiculous departure modeling that makes the game nearly unplayable on consoles at realistic settings.

At any rate, as Death from Afar says, this is a believable, fun sim that looks stunningly beautiful, with amazing cockpits (on par with the FSX payware planes some of ya'll don't hesitate to pay $50 for), TrackIR support, and a much less sterile, boring environment than the IL-2 series. It's not perfect, but it's very much a modern successor to Jane's WW2 Fighters, with the 10 years of PC/graphics development that have occurred in the meantime. I have zero regrets on spending the $50.

[crashaz]

Wow based on your review Denny... nuff said! You have never led me wrong during the years. :wavey:

[DennyA]

Cool deal, Crash! :)

There's a free demo available, too, though I'd already purchased it before that came out, so I'm not sure how much it includes/omits.

The hardest of the hardcore will find plenty to complain about (but they'd gripe if you dropped them into the cockpit of a real Bf-109E, saying the stall modeling didn't match IL-2's :-).

But if you're looking for a fun sim that's realistic enough to give you a sense of immersion, this one delivers!

[CodyValkyrie]

I stick by my statements. Rather than go to an in depth review of why this is not a SERIOUS simmer's escape (I dare say for those looking for a very serious simulation hold out), the game focuses nearly entirely on the aspects of a combat simulator that catches people's eye, such as explosions. In a single mission I had to bomb several airbases, fight off waves of enemies, and fly to a flag that ended the mission. I had little to no control of my AI counterparts, but they liked to tell me such important things as "I have one on my tail," without giving me a single clue who is "I," there seemed to be little importance to the importance of your engine (unless of course you get a few bullets in it), my flights when I was shot down all ended in explosions, a single burst from my Spittie blew of whole wings of HE-111s, beyond basic flight controls such as flaps, mixture etc, there was little to no ability to adjust other features of the plane such as locking the artificial horizon, switching coms, flight maps, etc, ther weather while impressive visually had little to no effect on the plane (turbulance, shear, and wind speeds), enemies planes SPAWN into the battlefield and are ALWAYS located at fixed locations which upon your arrival they begin to fly their missions, etc etc etc.

Guys, don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful game and there are some impressive effects. It is however not a complete hard core flight simulation but rather falls into the movie-esque style of flight combat simulators. Each plane tends to feel and react like the one before it, without the convincing traits given to the planes in question (other than nice mapping, textures and decent modeling).

It would be a wonderful game to film in, unfortunately I do not have the type of camera control I would love. I just don't feel that as a study simulation this will meet everyone's expectations. In all of my flights, even under advanced flight, all I had to do was use my throttle stick and rudder with absolutely no regard for my engine (short of not using WEP for too long).

So, yes, I very much disagree this is a true simulation along the lines of DCS or Rise of Flight, or even many of the warbirds built for FSX. It's fun, but pretty isn't everything. I'll get some fun flights every once in a while shooting down 109s however.

[EDIT] Lastly, forgive my crude spelling and grammatical mistakes. I'm too tired to go back and fix them all, but after reading it through I am at least keenly aware of them.

[DennyA]

(I dare say for those looking for a very serious simulation hold out)
Hold out for WHAT exactly? It's not 1997, there's not exactly a stream of upcoming sims in development. :)

No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.

What this is, is a fun and entertaining sim with enough of a nod to realism that you won't scream "arcade silliness" when you try to fly the plane, and the unrealistic elements that are there are geared towards making the virtual air combat an entertaining experience.

I'm not arguing your points that this isn't a dead-on authentic WW2 experience. But what is? And what's coming that is?

"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.

If you're looking for a "serious sim," then lighten up and let yourself enjoy the quality "mid-range" sims when they come out, and provide constructive feedback to the developers. Then you might very well get a serious sim someday if the genre can get kickstarted. If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.

[CodyValkyrie]

Hold out for WHAT exactly? It's not 1997, there's not exactly a stream of upcoming sims in development. :)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start any issues here, I'm just stating that some purists might not enjoy this sim. Since there is a demo, naturally people can find out for themselves. For me, unfortunately, I won't be spending a lot of time with it.

As for what is out there:
-IL2
-BoBII
-DCS series
-RoF

There are others as well. A full list is beyond the scope of this conversation and is beyond the context and message I am trying to portray.


No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.I do not disagree, but it also depends on what you are looking for.


What this is, is a fun and entertaining sim with enough of a nod to realism that you won't scream "arcade silliness" when you try to fly the plane, and the unrealistic elements that are there are geared towards making the virtual air combat an entertaining experience.I do not disagree.


I'm not arguing your points that this isn't a dead-on authentic WW2 experience. But what is? And what's coming that is?I am not at liberty to say. There are however alternatives for those looking for a high end simulation.


"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

Perhaps you need to rethink your statement. Saying this is the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past seven years is a broad brush to be painting with. I could put a nice list up, including some of the games listed above and others. I digress though, again off of my point and certainly only further inflaming what appears to be a hot topic.


The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.I do not disagree again. I would like to point out that I also help with many of the developers here on this board, and I feel I have a decent heartbeat of what at least the FSX community is looking for. That is however not to say that many here will not find this a fun game. All I said is that for those looking for a high end simulation of combat, this may not be their ultimate answer. I didn't state the game was rubbish, I only accounted for a few reasons why I felt it wasn't a study simulation.

There is honestly no reason to be so defensive in this, and I am puzzled by your defense of the subject. In my case, I tried this game several months ago on the X-Box and the fun factor died for me after a few days of enjoying the game. I didn't realize at download however this was the same game, but I knew right away when I loaded it. Regardless, I spent a few hours playing it. As I said, I probably won't again. For me, I am moreso concerned with not only the combat, but the application of tactics, equipment realism and other factors. Unfortunately, there are few games for me that offer this. My experience won't necessarily match others, but I think it is clear that I personally enjoy a pure simulation than a limited one. As it is my hobby to decide what I like or don't like, I am entitled to my opinion, and may share it.


If you're looking for a "serious sim," then lighten up and let yourself enjoy the quality "mid-range" sims when they come out, and provide constructive feedback to the developers. Then you might very well get a serious sim someday if the genre can get kickstarted. If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.I do not appreciate these kinds of comments. What I choose to do is my own, but I will say I have spent plenty of time working with and for teams doing exactly that, developing core simulations. Just because I make an off the cuff comment that this game is not a hard core simulation is not meant to demean the product itself, and it is clear to me that a lot of time has been spent developing it. What I don't appreciate however is that I somehow need to lighten up and enjoy a simulation that you clearly enjoy. I do not personally enjoy a game such as this because I cannot find more than a few minutes of depth when playing it. For me, I gain my enjoyment out of the management of the aircraft as much as the combat, and I like to learn of the individual planes respective weaknesses and powers and systems. This does not offer that level of simulation, so therefor I cannot enjoy it. So it is what it is I guess. You enjoy the game. There is nothing stopping you from doing so, but do not express to me my need to "lighten up" because I do not see eye to eye with you about it.

I am not condemning this title. In many ways it pushes new boundaries and concepts, especially graphically in the flight sim genre. I will not however pretend this sim is enjoyable for myself and what my preferences are. I am sure that many will agree. I am also sure many won't. But please, don't tell me what I should or should not do.

[EDIT] For what it is worth, since my comments are already stated, I seek no reason to remove them. As someone who works with many developers however I have found once again that my personal opinions should not be stated publicly in such a manner. For those who potentially see my comments as negative, please feel free to come to your own conclusions. This is a good game and many will enjoy it.

[DennyA]

Thanks, Cody. Between our two differing viewpoints on this, people should find plenty of info to make an informed decision. :)

I'd urge folks to at least try the free demo (http://yuplay.com/story.php?title=Wings-Prey--demo-version) to see if it's something they might have fun with. I do strongly feel that it's critical for the community to support sim developers. I'm not saying buy something you don't want, but if you're on the edge of making a decision, err on the side of helping send a message that this genre can matter again to software publishers.

[CodyValkyrie]

Thanks, Cody. Between our two differing viewpoints on this, people should find plenty of info to make an informed decision. :)

I'd urge folks to at least try the free demo (http://yuplay.com/story.php?title=Wings-Prey--demo-version) to see if it's something they might have fun with. I do strongly feel that it's critical for the community to support sim developers. I'm not saying buy something you don't want, but if you're on the edge of making a decision, err on the side of helping send a message that this genre can matter again to software publishers.
The state of flight simulation has indeed seen better days. I daresay however we are better off than we were even 5 years ago however. It seems simming has started to spark up a bit with new titles starting to be released.

I like that they included a demo. It gives enough of an idea for one to truly decide for themselves if this is something they will enjoy.

I also would like to point out that giving developer's a thumbs up is also a good thing as well as good communication with them when stating any issues. It is easy for developers to be put off by negative feedback when things when they feel they are on the defensive.

I wonder if this team will be licensing this engine....? That would be absolutely brilliant!

[deathfromafar]

First of all, what is this doing in the FSX forum since it isn't FSX. Secondly, for the point that thegame/simulation isn't being demeaned, a lot of time and effort is going into negative dissection of it. I strongly disagree that so called "purists" might not like it. I have been flying sims of many types since the late 80's up to now. Amazing how much has changed in terms of realism since those days. I started actual primary training in the early 90's and I have a Commercial Pilots License, CFI, CFII, and MEI ratings along with now a few type ratings in list. Not to burst developers bubbles here but I can speak that without a doubt in my mind that there is not a single FS model or stand alone sim/game that is anywhere near being 100% capable of replicating every system and detailed aspect of the real plane the sim is trying to model. That is a pipe dream at best. My hat is off the the devs who try to produce these sim models. They have done a hell of a lot to move forward PC based simulation but there are still glaring limitations. I can tell you that if you take any hard core PC pilot(who flies complex PC/FS sim models) who doesn't hold an FAA License or Rating and drop them into a Full Level-D sim, I guarantee they will fall flat on their face trying to handle the flight dynamics and systems. The rubber meets the road when you get into real simulators and then go out and do your bounces in real life. Huge difference.

This sim/game as it is, is fun and has good depth/immersion to it. Fun being the key word and not leaving the user bogged down trying to manage systems around a VC by mouse clicking rather than a mock-cockpit surrounding them.


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[TheOptimist]

I downloaded the demo a few days ago and have tried so hard to love it. I've been wanting a good WW2 flyer for years. Unfortunately, I don't like this at all.

The control system is the worst I have EVER seen in a game. Unless you are on a joystick it is almost completely unplayable. Furthermore, unless you have TrackIR or equivalent it is completely unplayable. This might be forgivable if it had vaguely realistic flight dynamics, but it doesn't. This game is the equivalent of trying to play pacman with every key on the keyboard having a function. Absolutely awful.

Graphics are gorgeous, sound is gorgeous, damage modelling is fairly decent, but the flight dynamics and control system is apocalyptically bad. It might be amazing with a joystick, but I don't have a joystick and don't want one. Why on earth they couldn't implement an FSX style mouse-yoke system is beyond me.

The one other thing I really hate is the blackout/redout features. This is a gripe with FSX as well (although in FSX you can' turn it off). You can't feel the G-force, so don't turn my screen black. The problem with this game is that when controlling with the keyboard, you have no control over the rate of turn etc. You cannot turn tightly WITHOUT constantly blacking out.

If I ever get a joystick and get used to TrackIR then I might pay this another visit. Until then I can't face the diabolical controls one more time.


"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.?

What awful advice. I'm not buying a game just so I feel justified in telling them what's wrong with it. If I don't like it I don't buy it. I don't choose my purchases on some pity basis - if they expect me to part with MY money then they make a product that I like.

[deathfromafar]

The control system is the worst I have EVER seen in a game. Unless you are on a joystick it is almost completely unplayable. Furthermore, unless you have TrackIR or equivalent it is completely unplayable. This might be forgivable if it had vaguely realistic flight dynamics, but it doesn't. This game is the equivalent of trying to play pacman with every key on the keyboard having a function. Absolutely awful.

Graphics are gorgeous, sound is gorgeous, damage modelling is fairly decent, but the flight dynamics and control system is apocalyptically bad. It might be amazing with a joystick, but I don't have a joystick and don't want one. Why on earth they couldn't implement an FSX style mouse-yoke system is beyond me.

The one other thing I really hate is the blackout/redout features. This is a gripe with FSX as well (although in FSX you can' turn it off). You can't feel the G-force, so don't turn my screen black. The problem with this game is that when controlling with the keyboard, you have no control over the rate of turn etc. You cannot turn tightly WITHOUT constantly blacking out.

If I ever get a joystick and get used to TrackIR then I might pay this another visit. Until then I can't face the diabolical controls one more time.

How can that be considered a fair assessment if you don't have a proper control system?

Having a joystick is definitely a prerequisite with this sim. Trying to fly it without one I would agree can't be any fun. I have mine set up and mapped with my Saitek X52 and it works fine and the control feel is solid as it gets. I do not use Track IR and still get quick and accurate view/head movement via the Hat Switches. The flight dynamics are fine and the blackout/redout function isn't an issue if you're not being ham handed with it same as a real aircraft. Pull too hard and bad things happen.

In my group of Flightsim Enthusiasts there are two former Fighter Pilots. One a retired F-16 driver, the other flew F-4's back in the day. We all have this game/sim and these two guys felt it to be a good, fun, and credible effort for a "PC combat simulation".

[TheOptimist]

How can that be considered a fair assessment if you don't have a proper control system?

Having a joystick is definitely a prerequisite with this sim. Trying to fly it without one I would agree can't be any fun. I have mine set up and mapped with my Saitek X52 and it works fine and the control feel is solid as it gets. I do not use Track IR and still get quick and accurate view/head movement via the Hat Switches. The flight dynamics are fine and the blackout/redout function isn't an issue if you're not being ham handed with it same as a real aircraft. Pull too hard and bad things happen.

In my group of Flightsim Enthusiasts there are two former Fighter Pilots. One a retired F-16 driver, the other flew F-4's back in the day. We all have this game/sim and these two guys felt it to be a good, fun, and credible effort for a "PC combat simulation".

FSX (a dedicated flight simulator) makes excellent use of the mouse as a yoke/stick. For Wings of Prey not to do this is lunacy. I don't buy a game and have it tell me what I need to buy, unless it's clearly specified or obvious. I'm not spending money on a joystick so I can fly an arcade shooter. Of course I downloaded the demo so have no actual complaints per se, that is the benefit of the demo.

However, for anyone considering buying this game without a joystick just don't. Terrible experience.

Someone up above was mentioning that flight sims like this struggle in the market - I'm not surprised if you can't play them without purchasing additional equipment.

I think the flight dynamics are poor too. I'm lucky enough to have taken a couple of trips in a replica spit (with identical performance) and this game is quite poor. If the stall modelling in this game was anything like real life there wouldn't have been a Battle of Britain. They'd all crash 7 minutes after takeoff.

Finally, the blackout function is absolutely an issue given that the majority of people who buy/try the game won't have a joystick and as such will find it as infuriating as I do.

[DennyA]

Actually, the number of people who buy flight sims who don't own at least a gamepad with a joystick on it, if not a real joystick, is miniscule. Flying with the mouse hasn't been common since the Flight Sim 4 days. I can't see how someone can claim to be a flight sim enthusiast and not be willing to spend $20 on a cheap USB joystick...

[TheOptimist]

Actually, the number of people who buy flight sims who don't own at least a gamepad with a joystick on it, if not a real joystick, is miniscule. Flying with the mouse hasn't been common since the Flight Sim 4 days. I can't see how someone can claim to be a flight sim enthusiast and not be willing to spend $20 on a cheap USB joystick...

1. I assume you'd be a qualified as a flight sim enthusiast if you spend $20 on a little bit of plastic which neither looks nor feels anything like that in a real aircraft?

2. I assume you have a full homebuilt cockpit for every plane you fly?

3. Wings of prey is 40% simulation 60% game.

4. All of my PC gamer friends would buy a game like this, yet none of them have joysticks. Plus, last time I checked IL-2 on the consoles wasn't being sold with joysticks, and that's seemed to sell alright....

Who on earth ends their post questionning someones enthusiasm based on the fact that I don't want to buy a joystick? Forgive me for not wanting to spend money on a chunk of plastic which just gives me another way to confirm I'm definately not flying :rolleyes:

I'm sorry that I'm not worthy of your standards. In future I'll try harder.

[DennyA]

[Comments deleted so as not to take this further off-topic and into flame territory. I'll just note that console controllers have a pair of joysticks on them and quietly back way from the topic. :)]

[Bjoern]

Amusingly, there's a development/licensing connection between Wings of Prey and IL-2, and they actually carried over quite a bit of the IL-2 flight modeling, including the ridiculous departure modeling that makes the game nearly unplayable on consoles at realistic settings.

Realistic flight sims aren't for consoles.

Although you have a point with the stall modeling. Flying the Fw-190 for exampe isn't fun at all in IL-2.



No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.

A modded IL-2 and FSX do a pretty good job in terms of a "live" environment.
The last really "living" battlefield I've seen was in Falcon 4. Ever since, flightsim developers apparently lost the art of drawing the player into the environment.

If you want sterility, put LO:MAC and DCS:BS on top of the list. They don't even have a simple dynamic campaign.


If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.

Fine for me, as long as there's still people doing mods for them.

If I want casual dogfights, I'll just fire up Forgotten Hope, which also has the benefit of a living battlefield. (Poor pun intended.)

[MCDesigns]

Finally, the blackout function is absolutely an issue given that the majority of people who buy/try the game won't have a joystick and as such will find it as infuriating as I do.

I also find it very odd that anyone wanting to try the demo (or any flying game/sim for that matter) wouldn't have either a joystick or gamepad (with joystick on it). I once tried flying in FS2000 with keyboard only and found it very, VERY infuriating, not to mention difficult as hell, LOL.

[TheOptimist]

I also find it very odd that anyone wanting to try the demo (or any flying game/sim for that matter) wouldn't have either a joystick or gamepad (with joystick on it). I once tried flying in FS2000 with keyboard only and found it very, VERY infuriating, not to mention difficult as hell, LOL.

I use the mouse to fly, which is actually very effective. It takes more effort to 'get good' in the long-run as opposed to using a joystick, but it works very well (for example when you want to stop banking with a joystick you let go - it returns to centre, whereas with a mouse you have to move back to centre etc).

Personally I have no need for a joystick, and unless one day there is a properly immersive experience available I never will. You don't get any G-force, vibrations, 'true' feedback from the stick etc etc...you still have to click cockpit buttons with a mouse/assign them to a button on a joystick etc.

Essentially it all boils down to the fact that it doesn't increase immersiveness/realism for me. Plus, the £100 I'd spend on the joystick buys me an hour in the C150 and I know which I'd rather have.

[EgoR64]

:salute:

I got me Six kicked in a I-16 Type 28 - LOL - Man What a Difficult Bird to Fly - Spinning all over the place - I could Have sworn I saw the the trees moving back an forth - I do believe they have the trees animated -

It is all good fun -

Cheers - :guinness:

[Deano]

hi Olaf1924

I managed to get my msffb2 stick to without error, and for the life of me cant remember which tab / menu I used.

[SirBenn21]

FSX (a dedicated flight simulator) makes excellent use of the mouse as a yoke/stick. For Wings of Prey not to do this is lunacy. I don't buy a game and have it tell me what I need to buy, unless it's clearly specified or obvious. I'm not spending money on a joystick so I can fly an arcade shooter. Of course I downloaded the demo so have no actual complaints per se, that is the benefit of the demo.

However, for anyone considering buying this game without a joystick just don't. Terrible experience.

Someone up above was mentioning that flight sims like this struggle in the market - I'm not surprised if you can't play them without purchasing additional equipment.

I think the flight dynamics are poor too. I'm lucky enough to have taken a couple of trips in a replica spit (with identical performance) and this game is quite poor. If the stall modelling in this game was anything like real life there wouldn't have been a Battle of Britain. They'd all crash 7 minutes after takeoff.

Finally, the blackout function is absolutely an issue given that the majority of people who buy/try the game won't have a joystick and as such will find it as infuriating as I do.

Dude are you serious. Control with a mouse. hmmmm let me think how realistic that must be. Nope the Cessna pilot doesn't use one and I don't recall a 747 pilot using one. Must be top secret F16 pilots that use a mouse to fly.
:173go1: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

Thats funny.

Ben

[heywooood]

I use the mouse to fly, which is actually very effective. It takes more effort to 'get good' in the long-run as opposed to using a joystick, but it works very well (for example when you want to stop banking with a joystick you let go - it returns to centre, whereas with a mouse you have to move back to centre etc).

Personally I have no need for a joystick, and unless one day there is a properly immersive experience available I never will. You don't get any G-force, vibrations, 'true' feedback from the stick etc etc...you still have to click cockpit buttons with a mouse/assign them to a button on a joystick etc.

Essentially it all boils down to the fact that it doesn't increase immersiveness/realism for me. Plus, the £100 I'd spend on the joystick buys me an hour in the C150 and I know which I'd rather have.

man - get a joystick

how can you be so critical of them if you have never used one??
ludicrous

[SirBenn21]

man - get a joystick

how can you be so critical of them if you have never used one??
ludicrous

My sentiments exactly! :mixedsmi:

[Thoe6969]

I use the mouse to fly, which is actually very effective. It takes more effort to 'get good' in the long-run as opposed to using a joystick, but it works very well (for example when you want to stop banking with a joystick you let go - it returns to centre, whereas with a mouse you have to move back to centre etc).

Personally I have no need for a joystick, and unless one day there is a properly immersive experience available I never will. You don't get any G-force, vibrations, 'true' feedback from the stick etc etc...you still have to click cockpit buttons with a mouse/assign them to a button on a joystick etc.

Essentially it all boils down to the fact that it doesn't increase immersiveness/realism for me. Plus, the £100 I'd spend on the joystick buys me an hour in the C150 and I know which I'd rather have. Pardon me but there are several good force feedback joysticks avalable that that do just that.

[TheOptimist]

man - get a joystick

how can you be so critical of them if you have never used one??
ludicrous

I've used plenty, from the £10 cheap job from PC world, to the X-52, to the Thrustmaster Cougar. They don't really change the experience for me. They don't make the experience real in any way, unless you're talking about the cougar for the F-16 and so on.

In what way is it ludicrous?

[TheOptimist]

Pardon me but there are several good force feedback joysticks avalable that that do just that.

Yes but unless you've got the vibrations going through your arse at the same time/feeling the G-forces I just find that irritating.

[SirBenn21]

I've used plenty, from the £10 cheap job from PC world, to the X-52, to the Thrustmaster Cougar. They don't really change the experience for me. They don't make the experience real in any way, unless you're talking about the cougar for the F-16 and so on.

In what way is it ludicrous?

Dude look around. you the odd one out with your mouse.
If that's the way you like it so be it. But to slate a game because it does not have mouse control. That is LUDICROUS!

[TheOptimist]

Dude look around. you the odd one out with your mouse.
If that's the way you like it so be it. But to slate a game because it does not have mouse control. That is LUDICROUS!

Until they start packaging all PC's with joysticks included it's not ludicrous at all.

I feel the same way about TrackIR, or in my case Freetrack. I know I said 'if I ever get TrackIR' but I do actually have a freetrack headset (home built of course). I've used TrackIR and my arrangement works exactly the same way.

It was fun for about 7 minutes, but then my back started hurting and I shuffled down into my chair a little. Couldn't see squat. That doesn't see any action nowadays.

[nio]

I use the mouse to fly, which is actually very effective. It takes more effort to 'get good' in the long-run as opposed to using a joystick, but it works very well (for example when you want to stop banking with a joystick you let go - it returns to centre, whereas with a mouse you have to move back to centre etc).

Personally I have no need for a joystick, and unless one day there is a properly immersive experience available I never will. You don't get any G-force, vibrations, 'true' feedback from the stick etc etc...you still have to click cockpit buttons with a mouse/assign them to a button on a joystick etc.

Essentially it all boils down to the fact that it doesn't increase immersiveness/realism for me. Plus, the £100 I'd spend on the joystick buys me an hour in the C150 and I know which I'd rather have.

IIRC you are the gentleman who performed Pugachev's Cobra in an SU27.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=28647

Although you referred in that thread to "ramming the stick back" I now understand this was a euphemism for "ramming the mouse back".

Kudos.



nio

[TheOptimist]

IIRC you are the gentleman who performed Pugachev's Cobra in an SU27.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=28647

Although you referred in that thread to "ramming the stick back" I now understand this was a euphemism for "ramming the mouse back".

Kudos.

nio

Thank you. Turns out I nailed the cobra, I didn't use the shots in the contest as late on there were some ridiculously good entries and I couldn't get what I wanted.

I'm going to go and grab a screenie now actually.

[Slug Flyer]

Strike Fighters.


Strike Fighters has the depth of a koi pond, turn-of-the-century graphics, crushingly bad AI, and doesn't get more modern than about 1985.

BTW, I haven't used a mouse as my controller in a flight sim since I was playing FS98. Just throwing that out there.

[Bjoern]

I could Have sworn I saw the the trees moving back an forth - I do believe they have the trees animated -

The animated trees were a part of the engine since at least IL-2: Forgotten Battles. And that was 2004.
Same for water fountains casting shadows.



Strike Fighters has the depth of a koi pond, turn-of-the-century graphics, crushingly bad AI, and doesn't get more modern than about 1985.

You obviously don't know about Strike Fighters 2 or the brazillions of mods for it. Flying a F-22 in SF isn't a problem since this thing is the FSX of combat sims in terms of "sandboxiness".

Oh, and did I mention that it's developed by a single guy who throws every new edition or generation of it on the market for half the price of a proper FSX add-on aircraft?

AND IT HAS A FREAKING DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN ENGINE!

[EgoR64]

:wavey:

Hi bjoern,

You are correct, It has been awhile since IL2 was on me machine, I was actually on may way down to motha earth with a Fatal wound to the Tail section of my Aircraft when out of the corner of my eye the trees appeared to have waved at me - It was definitely Blurry - and all the :icon29: did not help - :blind:

Cheers -

[JimC1702]

Sure does look pretty!

25463

Jim

[Bjoern]

25463

Those forests make me drool.

[Dimus]

Fell for it and bought it. Not perfect on the sim side but the graphics are jaw dropping. Lots of promise though and the devs seem to listen. Made a couple of short videos in training mode:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=043y5aQA4NA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx80XNK_fQM

[guzler]

I was reading a thread about the green tint on their website. It seems a shame to put such a good visual package together then stick a tint on it. Having seen some pictures edited to show the tint removed, I sure hope they give this option as it looked so much better (IMO).

[Mobayrasta]

I use the mouse to fly, which is actually very effective. It takes more effort to 'get good' in the long-run as opposed to using a joystick, but it works very well (for example when you want to stop banking with a joystick you let go - it returns to centre, whereas with a mouse you have to move back to centre etc).

Personally I have no need for a joystick, and unless one day there is a properly immersive experience available I never will. You don't get any G-force, vibrations, 'true' feedback from the stick etc etc...you still have to click cockpit buttons with a mouse/assign them to a button on a joystick etc.

Essentially it all boils down to the fact that it doesn't increase immersiveness/realism for me. Plus, the £100 I'd spend on the joystick buys me an hour in the C150 and I know which I'd rather have.

Wow......I can't believe you play so many flight sims and don't have a joystick. Mouse control in a sim or a game is so highly unrealistic. Even if it is a piece of plastic it makes the immersion 100 times better. I will offer to buy you a joystick and send it to you. I am a struggling family man with a wife who is disabled and two children but I would love to see you change your mind. I really value your opinions but I think you are really off the ball on this one. I am not trying to flame at all, but I really feel you are missing so much trying to fly with a mouse/keyboard setup. My offer is real. I would even be willing to let you try my X-52 if you would like to give it a real go. I personally LOVE my Microsoft Force Feedback 2 and feel the feedback really helps with immersion. I bought two of my best friends used ones off ebay ( not made anymore) this Christmas for less than 30 dollars a piece.

You said you would rather spend your money on an hour of flight in a 152 which is pretty cool. But I think the hours and hours of enjoyment you are missing out on not having a joystick is welll worth missing that 1 hour of real flight. I have almost 20 hours now toward my PPL and I agree that a joystick is not a yoke but it sure is a lot closer that a mouse.

If you want I would also let you try my CH Yoke (can be found used for around 65 dollars) much more realistic but I use my microsoft FF2 most of the time because I just love force feedback.

Like I said I am in no way trying to put you down as you seemed to take some of the comments in this thread personally. I just really think you are missing out and would love to see you have even more enjoyment in this great hobby of ours. Hell even a 20 dollar USB Xbox 360 controller from gamestop is more fun than flying woth a mouse.



Getting back on the subject of this thread. I find this game alot of fun but it is really more of an arcade expierence than a sim, which is fine with me. Heck I love playing 1946 with unlimited ammo so I can blow the hell out of a whole bomber squadron. I also enjoy playing it as close to a sim as possible. Birds of Prey is a happy medium in between both sim and arcade. I am hoping the community grows and the mods continue to fix the nagging little problems that all games/sims come with.

In these times we can use all the flying games we can get. I miss the days when I would walk into a computer store and there were so many good sims on the shelf I had a hard time picking which one to go home with. Those times are long gone and I feel we need to support the developers that are still trying to cater to us. Is that a reason to buy a game maybe not, but to me I want to see the sim community grow as much as possible. When you have a developer that really seems to want to make their customers happy I am all for buying their product.


Respect to all

MoBay

[wichner]

I downloaded the demo but was afraid to download what appeared to be a new version of some needed mirosoft software...i think it was ???? can't remember. game would not play without it! did anyone else encounter this and can you say exactly what they wanted me to download. thank you.

[smithcorp]

I've downloaded the demo (yet to install) but while I was doing that I looked at some youtube vids of the training mission that apparently comes with the demo. The narrator repeats those old chestnuts about the throttle making the plane go faster and the elevator making it go up and down. Another generation learning stuff that might get them killed in real life.

Feel like packaging a copy of Stick and Rudder and sending it to the devs.

smith

[Thoe6969]

I downloaded the demo but was afraid to download what appeared to be a new version of some needed mirosoft software...i think it was ???? can't remember. game would not play without it! did anyone else encounter this and can you say exactly what they wanted me to download. thank you. It just tries to update Direct X which you should keep updated anyway.If it is up to date it dont install anything.

[Snaker]

It just tries to update Direct X which you should keep updated anyway.If it is up to date it dont install anything.

Yep just hit cancel when it asks. The demo works fine for me....

[spotlope]

Am I nuts, or is it physically impossible to purchase WoP at the moment? I keep getting a message that credit card processing is offline, but will return soon. Seems like a pretty king-sized glitch, innit?

[DennyA]

BTW, folks, if you still haven't bitten on this, it's $24.99 through 2/28 at yuplay.com. I just bought a second copy so I can teach my 7-year-old how to fly formation. :)

[olaf1924]

Thanks DennyA for the heads up on the sale. I am looking foward to giving wop a try this coming week end.

[DennyA]

No problem, Olaf. It's a fun game and they've already fixed a bunch of the complaints that folks had early in this thread.

Just given the sheer number of well-modeled (flight and 3D models) you can fly in the sim, it's well worth the $25 even if you never fly a mission. :)

Sale's still on, though I imagine it's getting close to the end of the day in Russia. :)

I got the second copy up and running, and now my kid's practicing crashing into the ground while he tries to learn to follow my plane.

[Scratch]

I have to say I love this sim. It is visually stunning. Easily the most immersive sim out there. And it runs buttery smooth for me even with everything maxed out. I haven't been able to make it stutter even once. It is a steal at half price.

[dswo]

Ok, I bought it this morning, because next week is spring break. (Woot! Woot!) Still need to install it though. Can we play it on the server here?

[deimos256]

i installed the demo last night and it made me realize how rusty i am at air combat! The visuals are stunning, the AI is formidable and it runs smooth as silk on my aging system. i wish I could have taken advantage of the sale however I have too many bills to pay and College is taking up a lot of my free time these days.

[Scratch]

Smackin' the Axis in Sicily.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Villicus/Sicily.jpg

[Scratch]

This is gonna hurt............

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Villicus/?action=view&current=Heinkel.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Villicus/Heinkel.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Villicus/Heinkel.jpg)

[heywooood]

oh this has potential...

[Mithrin]

I'm still flying this sim every now and then and just wanted to point out that it's on sale at steam today for only 12,49 Euro. More than worth the money if you ask me.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/45300/

[stiz]

what planes are actually flyable with a vc??? i've only seen shots of the spit, hurri, 110,109, mustang,thunderbolt and p40 .. there any others or is that it??

[heywooood]

the I-16 Yak3 and a few other Russian planes are also flyable...

its a great looking sim with some fun to be had but don't look for an in depth campaign mode or outstanding online DF flights because they aren't there yet.

for this price it is well worth it though and you can now obtain custom repaints

flying through the clouds at dawn or dusk or anytime in Wings of Prey is a treat - the terrain and topography in this sim are photorealistic

[wiltzei]

I´ve totally forgotten that I bought WoP from the last sale. Anyone interested in MP session sometime?