Drawing coastlines

[UncleTgt]

I'm trying Jean Bombers approach to drawing coastlines for cfs2 & learning as I go.

I decided a quiet part of the Indain Ocean - The Andaman Islands, as ny first try.

The attached bmps show the Coco Islands

The DEM geotiff
The tiff as a separate image - notice the difference in shape.

The tiff is closer to the ahape showing on satellite images & maps, so I used that as a template for my coastlines.
Am I correct in assuming the DEM outline isn't the coastline?

G2K screen - This is in 256 colour & if I zoom in close the island shapes bounce around a bit, making perfect position pretty much trial & error.

Lastly, 2 images from cfs2.

In general, this is the effect I'm seeing, with the coastlines a little way offshore, but if I try the DEM geotiff, the shape & size of the islands are too small, & not like the watermasks that Rhumba has already provided for cfs2.

So, before I go too much further, is this the correct approach?
Does this mean providing fresh landmasks to match the coastlines as drawn, or should I be trying to match rhumbas watermasks more closely?

[Jean Bomber]

Hi Uncle

You are on the good way :applause:.

In the case of an Island ,you can have the land masks with the coastlines:
(look as example the Sylt island in the SDC's tuto)
Keep your coastlines already drawed and instead of tick "line/lakeshore" in the dialog box tick "poly with shore" ,you will keep your lines and tick also "land" as LWM .
To make that the island show up you must draw all around ,in the water,a new "poly without shore" ,tick for "water" as LWM. the water poly must close up the island to make it as water then the land with coast will show up with your previous "land poly with shore".
I hope that my explanations are clear :icon_lol:

"Am I correct in assuming the DEM outline isn't the coastline?"
The Dem outline are not exactly the coastlines so it's good to download the shapefile "swdb" you need the TatukGIS Viewer to open them and edit a jpg or png .It's the same size and projection but the swdb concern the water areas.
You can with the swdb and the DEM make a two layer psp file and edit a background bmp for G2K.
here the link for the swdb
ftp://xftp.jrc.it/pub/srtmV4/SRTM_Water_2D/

for Tatuk viewer searching on google you will find it easely.



JP

[UncleTgt]

Thanks for the help Jean. I was worried I might be putting a lot of work in that I'd only have to redo later on ...

It was your hard work on Truk & the Med that made me take a look at "helping out" - there's such a lot of coast to get through!

I'll stay in the quiet of the Indian Ocean & practice some more ...

Off to get tatukgis viewer ...:salute:

[UncleTgt]

Small update ...

takes some getting used to, & I always want to draw too large an area, then G2K hangs on bgl creation ...:angryfir::banghead:

here's a look at my first small attempt, Barren Island in the Andamans ...

Rhumbas mesh & watermasks

Before & After

New LWM poly, coastlines, landclass & waterclass ..

[Jean Bomber]

Small update ...

takes some getting used to, & I always want to draw too large an area, then G2K hangs on bgl creation ...:angryfir::banghead:

here's a look at my first small attempt, Barren Island in the Andamans ...

Rhumbas mesh & watermasks

Before & After

New LWM poly, coastlines, landclass & waterclass ..

Hi Uncle

Nice Job :applause: The g2k tool needs to be dompted but with the rule of :"draw lines ,generate and save often " if a issue happens generating a bgl it's possible to go back at the previous save and the project by this way can progress :running:

Before & After.....http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif.......http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon14.gif

An advice to generate the bgls more faster from a big project like a GeoTIFF sized it's better in this case of several islands to make several subprojects from the main saving it as and renaiming the bgl for each island subproject( file/save as "COCO.LWM" ,for ex,close the main.LWM open the COCO project delete all that you don't need ,go to files parameter rename the bgl COCO.bgl you have now a COCO subproject for a smaller area) ,with the common background bmp you can generate the bgls faster for each subproject than a big one that need 20/30 mn to generate a big bgl :a1451:,It's better to go walk the dogs during the processor is crying for its mother-board .......:crybaby:......
That' s something I've learnt making the desert coastlines scenery ....the corrections are more faster and easy on several small subprojects :pop4: than a big one to load a bgl .It's also safety to don't keep the eggs in the same basket.



JP

[UncleTgt]

That' s something I've learnt making the desert coastlines scenery ....the corrections are more faster and easy on several small subprojects :pop4: than a big one to load a bgl .It's also safety to don't keep the eggs in the same basket.

I hear you loud and clear on that one JP...

A small update ...

Preparis Islands, with a rather fanciful interpretation of the reefs ... all I have is a google earth satellite photo, plus several hand drawn indications of the islands having a reef system to the West, south, & East.

The reef bmps are retinted JBTruk bmps, renumbered (...b...) & tinted to blend with the MS "rest of the world" sea. The sand is a recoloured 137b2su1, lightened to represent a whiter sand, & the vshoresu bmp has been reworked by blending JB's waveshore bmp & the beach. I discovered I could make nearly everything apart from the whitecaps transparent using bmp2000 - it means you have to be even more accurate placing the shorelines, but it allows you to use the same shoreline on the sandbars as well - I'm sure that ability within bmp2000 to adjust transparency will have even more uses with the other coastline & riverbank bmps ...

[UncleTgt]

Coco Islands ... unfortunately CFS2 won't reproduce variations of water textures like it does land textures :blind:, only ...2SU1 bmps show. So the reefs need a bit of work to make them look less uniform.

[Jean Bomber]

....
The reef bmps are retinted JBTruk bmps, renumbered (...b...) & tinted to blend with the MS "rest of the world" sea. The sand is a recoloured 137b2su1, lightened to represent a whiter sand, & the vshoresu bmp has been reworked by blending JB's waveshore bmp & the beach. I discovered I could make nearly everything apart from the whitecaps transparent using bmp2000 - it means you have to be even more accurate placing the shorelines, but it allows you to use the same shoreline on the sandbars as well - I'm sure that ability within bmp2000 to adjust transparency will have even more uses with the other coastline & riverbank bmps ...


You know what.........:icon_eek:.....before your post I've never noticied that the bmp that I've used for Truk was ...h... series ,the nose on the project ,making the water classes the textures showed up normally in cfs2 I didn't search no more.....:icon_lol:
I don't known what are the rules about the b or h texture series ,why the h work with Truk and in other place of the world that's the b ...,?
I like the color of your sand ,with the vtp1 poly or line it's possible to add our own ,with the 137b2su1 I would like to make a new dunes,with vegetation texture for use with the beaches the default is too yellow .
You can also use and retinted the coral lines I've made for Truk ,JBvrocksu and any others ,if you want use them for your project in g2k you have to add them in the own lines txt in the main g2k folder,you can look at this thread ,if you don't ever do it :

How adding personal line.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=12995

here also a grid I use in psp that help to paint new lines ,for a better junction between each segment you can also check with it some existing lines and that can give some surprises ,as I've had with the first railway texture.


JP

[UncleTgt]

G2K takes some handling:isadizzy:, but I'm making some progress ...

Various views of North Andaman Island.

I'm using some of the new "darker jungle" textures uploaded recently, suitably renumbered for the "b" textures used everywhere other than the Pacific.

[Jean Bomber]

"G2K takes some handling:isadizzy:, but I'm making some progress ..."
....and you see the immediate results that give satifactions and some new pleasant places to fly .....and for the minimum better than a cfs2 stock landmask scenery http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon14.gif

JP

[UncleTgt]

Some more screenies ...

200 Sqdn RAF Liberator GRV takes a peek over North Andaman.:kilroy:

JP, you can see the default textures still showing on Middle Andaman in picture 1 to the left. I haven't overwritten the scendb/world/ textures. Although it doesn't follow the guidance, it seems to work OK so far...:monkies:

This means I can use the default water untouched in the "plain" areas, & use different textures in the areas I want by calling up the landclass/ waterclass.

For instance, in the right hand picture there is a large shallow bay, & in the left hand picture the narrow strait/ river between north & middle andaman.

I took a bmp from the pactex river delta set & renumbered it 001b2wa1.bmp. When I call it up in the waterclass, it shows as shallow, silty water, & it blends just the same with the pre existing default waterclass.:wiggle:

Do you know of any potential problems with arranging things this way? I've not come across any issues so far, but I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on something that most other people can't use & enjoy.:pop4:

[Jean Bomber]

Hi Uncle

There so few water texture bmp in cfs2 that it's sometime good to make a imcomplete water class and keep some area with the default that will increase the variations of the colors in the landscape .
For Truk mainly a waterclass rework I have made two scenery one using the default water texture and one "Truk atoll" using custom atoll texture,"truk atoll" could be called "atoll" scenery and only display atoll texture every where in the world ,it's possible to create another scenery called "deep water" displayind only deep water texture ,another called lake delta river working only for these area and that for all around in the world the only limitation mixing the bmp it's that you can't joint two different 007b2wa1.bmp or 008... 009..etc from different set a 007.. from set A must be mixed with a 008 9,10 or 011 etc...from set B if not that give square in cfs2 .For Afnor II I think to do a "lake delta river" scenery folder to introduce these green dirty water for some large stream ,lake or delta that have these colors on some very closed areas,and some ports or harbor have often not clean clear waters .....
for information the 001b2wa1 is not flotable and if you shoot on it there is dust impact......

JP

[SdC Redux]

Good to see there's still people making cfs2 lwm/vtp scenery.
MAkes it even more worthwhile to rewrite the VTP1 creator tool. As you have found out, working with ground2k is very time consuming and awkward.
When I complete my tool, you can use SBuilder (not SBuilderX) for cfs2; that way you can import FS2002/2004/CFS2 BGL's directly, edit them in the SBuilder interface (which is much much better than ground2k) and export as CFS2.

[UncleTgt]

Hi Uncle

.....for information the 001b2wa1 is not flotable and if you shoot on it there is dust impact......

JP

Ahh, missed that (rather critical) difference. I may abandon the river/ shallow bay WC entries then. Pity, I really liked the visual result ...:pop4:

Sdc - Welcome back! Feel free to help JP out in tutoring this scenery newbie ... I'm trying to keep all the exchanges where everyone can see them in the hope we can all learn as I go along ...

Who knows, it might get someone else fired up to lend a hand, it was Jean Bomber,s stunning work on Truk & his follow ups in the med that got me thinking if I could learn enough to lend a hand ... there is soooo much still to do ...

[UncleTgt]

Hi Uncle

... the only limitation mixing the bmp it's that you can't joint two different 007b2wa1.bmp or 008... 009..etc from different set a 007.. from set A must be mixed with a 008 9,10 or 011 etc...from set B if not that give square in cfs2 .For Afnor II I think to do a "lake delta river" scenery folder to introduce these green dirty water for some large stream ,lake or delta that have these colors on some very closed areas,and some ports or harbor have often not clean clear waters .....

JP

JP, so we are creating an incomplete waterclass for an area around a river delta, it would be very unusual for the default terrain to show any "deep water" bmps (012b2wa1.bmp). Perhaps we could use this bmp to show the muddy, silty water?

I will try it out with the North Andaman files, replacing 001 with 012 & report back.

Stay tuned, pictures at eleven ...:wavey:

[Snuffy]

Don't mind my interruption. This has been pretty informative. Thanks guys!

:ernae: :applause:

[rhumbaflappy]

Here's what we know about waterclass:

As Jean points out, Value #1 ( represented by 001b2wa1.bmp, or 001h2wa1.bmp ) is very shallow. The b refers to the worldwide default, while the h refers to the tropical Pacific region.

Looking in TMFViewer, you can load worldwc.bgl and view all the world waterclass. 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 are the values used... and correspond to the "wa" texture files. ( Except that 002h2wa1.bmp / 002b2wa1.bmp is oddly missing... this is a mistake by the Aces team ).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We can make our own waterclass files.

They are usually made from 257x257 pixel 8-bit RAW data files, and cover one complete LOD5-sized area. In PaintShopPro, I can make a palette for the needed waterclasses, valued 1-12, and value 254 for transparent, and paint a waterclass... then export it as 8-bit .raw for use in an INF file for resample.


[Source]
Type = WaterClassU8
SourceDir = "."
SourceFile = "CFS2Waterclass.raw"
Lat = 11.25
Lon = 138.75
NumOfCellsPerLine = 257
NumOfLines = 257
CellXdimensionDeg = 0.0146484375
CellYdimensionDeg = 0.010986328125

[Destination]
DestDir = "."
DestBaseFileName = "CFS2Waterclass_h"
NorthLat = 11.25
SouthLat = 8.4375
EastLong = 142.5
WestLong = 138.75
UseSourceDimensions = 0I believe ground2K and Sbuilder for FS9 can make waterclass files as well.

Waterclass and landclass assigned textures are Global in the sim.

If you make a waterclass BGL of an LOD5 area, and place it in a scenery folder, it will show the default water textures... but if you include a twin 'texture' folder containing your own textures, named as the default names, that area will then show your new water textures corresponding to the new waterclass... and where value 254 exists, it will transparently show the global ( original ) waterclass textures. This would be known as a local waterclass.

This new local waterclass should have all the textures used within the bgl placed in the local 'texture' folder... don't leave any out ( at least that's how it is in other flight sims ).

Additionally, you should be able to use all 12 numbers locally.. This gives you the default global waterclass 7 values, plus 12 local textures, for a total of 19 colors. Just remember that any value of 1, whether global or local, is shallow. I don't know if the blendmasks may be used with waterclass textures ( the "m" textures ).

You also can use VTP1 polys of layers 0-3 as floating water polys... with alpha transparency ( if I remember right )... giving a nearly unlimited amount of water texturing.

Dick

[Jean Bomber]

Hi S*nd*rs
in first : I'm really very happy of your come back ,one more :guinness:!


Good to see there's still people making cfs2 lwm/vtp scenery.
.........

.

Yes we can ...to try when the events are favorable ,today and tonight I'm off I need to reinstall cfs2.....a shame I 've a plain afternoon for ....:banghead:...".. there is soooo much still to do ..."
I know .... G2k have some issues and for large area ,in "hand" mode is very time consuming ....sure it's not the best way to quickly change the world ...but today I've not find best tool to do it in cfs2 mainly concerning to draw the vtp1 lines . we can also make some news as needed ....
In fact to resume :
I started from the mesh side and in same time I wanted to built some blended MR's style airfields on them ,one day surfing on the net I found this old 30's picture (1) and I don't why .....I decided that will be The project... ..............:engel016:....
newbie as I was........at the begin my first attempt was using fssc with the placement of some montains objects ......the result was a kind of Rio's Poa do azucar ,no really good ...and I could fly through them... ,not really the result wanted (2003).....the web ...the mesh..... bla bla bla....hgts+Blackart + srtm to bgl 104 etc...the mesh ok ...one step (2004) a rock already existed summary with some water on it ...but it was here ....flatten around to fix it....ok ...first WOW! moment .....g2k + your Sylt tuto http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon14.gif.....Land water mask + vtp1coastlines......second WOW! moment ....some artefacts...Malta......DDcrash :pop4: all loose...... the event of the life etc...pause
(2006) reinstall of cfs2 ...and directly to the Rock.....obsession....rebuilt .....pause
(winter2007)...SOH forum ...your site http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon3.gif......,I've learn so many :medals: ,......(old method,"don't use it " ).... I've used it http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif .....to draw on the g2k background bmp from swdb and srtm ......I think it's the only way to make that the mask match with the mesh ......vtp1fix ......artefact fixed....http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon14.gif...
autocoast ...I've tried it with some swdb (p2) or made Black and white bmp from srtm the problem was for me the r2v tool (99$!!!) ,the shared version did not let me the time to have a favorable opinion because In the first tries I've did (surely because of the settings) i've spare so many time in the lines block corrections that I thought I could directly do it by hand for the only 1*x1* srtm area I wanted around the rock ...(again and always:running:)...the most important is essentialy this first line drawed with g2k, with it you have the coastlines and also "saved as" in other subproject with it you get the land and the water mask bgls ...a good starting point... after it's like Mamie and its pullover it's question of time ,if the background image is accurate normally don't need to redo except for some corrections....
Today with autocoast I think it would be interesting to test it with the DEM Tiff 5*x5* sized I think you could quickly get some coastlines land and water masks .
For the road I 've choice to use the old US army's 1942 maps ,layered with the srtm or tiff in psp they give some modulable and accurate background bmps
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/
,the best historical source I think for our game but it's surely not the best to automatize the process ....
anyway that I prefer to work with g2k and fssc are the small area projects like islands ports or airfields mixing the g2k ezLC and Mr's process ,to feel ,like in the Sergio Leone 's movies ,the mood of the wind and the dust .....


JP

[UncleTgt]

This what I find works for me so far...

River deltas
Using 012b2wa1 (deep water) works OK, it's floatable & bullet strikes give sprays instead of dust. There's almost never any deep water close to land in the default watermask, so it blends just fine with the default.:jump:

Just for info - Renaming & calling up as 002 doesn't get recognised, even if I copy the same file into /TEXTURE & SECENDB/ WORLD/ TEXTURE folders.:blind:

Blending in with the default watermask.

I DON'T put a complete set of 001/ 007/008/009/010/011/012 water bmps. The only blending issue with the default watermask is when the incomplete watermask ends next to a tile that calls up the same number as used.

For example, I'm using 007/ 008 & 009 to depict the fringing reefs of the Andamans, but I don't need them everywhere. I've made a scenery set & texture folder with these bmps in it. (I also now have 012 used up for river delta water). This still leaves 001/ 010 & 011 tiles unallocated.

The only failures to blend are if a custom set 007/008/009 tile is next to an empty tile (in my waterclass file), that the deafult set also has as the same - the game doesn't recognise the need to blend, because both tiles are the same designation.:blind:

This is OK, because I can use 010/ 011 to frame my waterclass , & force the blending. The game just uses the default 010/ 011 to blend with, there doesn't need to be a copy in the custom texture folder.:kilroy:

BUT - I still think this means we are more limited than we think - in order to force the blended edges, there always has to be one of the water bmp set that remains the same as the default set.:isadizzy:

I've not tried custom vtp1 polys yet because I've read you can't blend the edges. If these vtp1 polys use the same format bmps, perhaps the transparency layer can be worked to help blend edges & make them less distinct?

Does anyone have any tips on how to get the best out of using vtp1 polys for smaller detail areas of terain?

[SdC Redux]

I've not tried custom vtp1 polys yet because I've read you can't blend the edges. If these vtp1 polys use the same format bmps, perhaps the transparency layer can be worked to help blend edges & make them less distinct?

Does anyone have any tips on how to get the best out of using vtp1 polys for smaller detail areas of terain?

Sure you can. The bitmap format is a bit peculiar (8bit with alpha) that can only be made with Imagetool.
I've used it to make some photoreal scenery in the past. It's very time consuming.

[Jean Bomber]

HI all

The vtp1 are good on small areas: (air)fields,lakes ,some cement, town parts ,usable for some
junctions ,etc....that stay flexible take care if you cross several polys to use the imbrication champ
( AA_10,AA_20 etc...)in the D box,if not you got a message ....
The vtp linked poly function allow also to use custom textures ,8bit with alpha channel (or not) sized
64 to 1024(256 is enough for cfs2) and you can place and adjust them exactly at the place you want ,by
this way it's possible to make a blended airfield without the use of a flatten area and that keep the
mesh in state with the imperfections of the ground,a nice effect for the summary airfields like
Lindsay is doing on the bush.
"We can make our own waterclass files
They are usually made from 257x257 pixel 8-bit RAW data files, and cover one complete LOD5-sized area.
In PaintShopPro, I can make a palette for the needed waterclasses, valued 1-12, and value 254 for
transparent, and paint a waterclass... then export it as 8-bit .raw for use in an INF file for
resample.
......Additionally, you should be able to use all 12 numbers locally.. This gives you the default
global waterclass 7 values, plus 12 local textures, for a total of 19 colors. Just remember that any
value of 1, whether global or local, is shallow. I don't know if the blendmasks may be used with
waterclass textures ( the "m" textures )."

12 local textures ,valued 1-12 ? that's very interesting...

here a Afnor WIP ,Pantelleria,a very small island where ,yesterday, I've mixed three water class from three scenery texture folders: Truk,Afnor_scen and Stream_Lake.
Immediatly around the coast I've used the truk texture 8,9,10 and 7 for the shallowed lake (I've copied and past and do the "a" set)
After around I have closed with the 7 from Egypt's med set to make the junction with the cfs2 default
,not very visible... but in a scenery less you see the joints better it's
And for the port I've make only two fs areas with a more dark "9" texture ,that from far away is visible

As backgound bmp in g2k I 've used a GGH screenshot taken from the luis Sa's site
http://www.ptsim.com/sbuilder/gmaps.htm
Using firefox with the fire shot tool you can get 3200 x 2400 bmp for specific places with very accurate coords.

JP

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi UncleTgt.

Your view of the waterclass in CFS2 is right... I was still stuck thinking about FS2004... :(

I did some testing yesterday...


001b = OK
002b = Becomes 011b
003b = Becomes 007b
004b = Becomes 012b
005b = Becomes 001b
006b = Becomes 007b
007b = OK
008b = OK
009b = OK
010b = OK
011b = OK
012b = OK

001h = OK
002h = Becomes 011h
003h = Becomes 007h
004h = Becomes 012h
005h = Becomes 001h
006h = Becomes 007h
007h = OK
008h = OK
009h = OK
010h = OK
011h = OK
012h = OK

I use the fs2004 resample to make the waterclass and landclass.

There is a header bug in the earlier resample versions that will cause display problems for western longitudes. I just Make sure I declare my destination bounds exactly to the LOD5 bounds.

Texture edges won't blend to an underlying texture of the same number, as you found.

012b won't edge-blend to 012b... also 004b also won't edge-blend to 012b.

I usually surround my area by a larger transparent ( value 254 ) area.


[Source]
Type = MultiSource
NumberOfSources = 2

[Source1]
Type = WaterClassU8
SourceDir = "."
SourceFile = "CFS2Waterclass.raw"
Lat = 11.25
Lon = 138.75
NumOfCellsPerLine = 257
NumOfLines = 257
CellXdimensionDeg = 0.0146484375
CellYdimensionDeg = 0.010986328125

[Source2]
Type = WaterClassU8
SourceDir = "."
SourceFile = "WorldTransparent.raw"
Lat = 90
Lon = -180
NumOfCellsPerLine = 360
NumOfLines = 190
CellXdimensionDeg = 1.0
CellYdimensionDeg = 1.0

[Destination]
DestDir = "."
DestBaseFileName = "CFS2Waterclass_5_85_28"
NorthLat = 14.0625
SouthLat = 5.625
EastLong = 146.25
WestLong = 135
UseSourceDimensions = 0
This ensures the edges will blend..if they can.

Otherwise, just use a 257x257 bitmap, and make sure the edge tiles match or are surrounded by the 254 value... or blending gets skewed.

You can use the alpha channel with VTP1 textures, but that gives us on/off transparency, as the textures need 8-bit plus alpha.

Here's my testing so far:

http://webpages.charter.net/ludowr/CFS2%20WaterClass.zip

Dick

[Jean Bomber]

Hi Dick
Happy to see you again :ernae:
Thanks for the palettes and the inf ,that needs some thought before how to cook them .

JP

[UncleTgt]

haven't given up yet ...


new landmask & coastlines, new landclass & new waterclass is done for:

outlying islands, including Preparis Island group
North Andaman Island & associated coastal islands
Middle Andaman island & associated coastal islands

land & watermask done for remaining South Andaman Islands & Little Andaman Island

just starting the coastlines, then onto completing the landclass & waterclass ...:isadizzy:

[Jean Bomber]

haven't given up yet ...


new landmask & coastlines, new landclass & new waterclass is done for:

outlying islands, including Preparis Island group
North Andaman Island & associated coastal islands
Middle Andaman island & associated coastal islands

land & watermask done for remaining South Andaman Islands & Little Andaman Island

just starting the coastlines, then onto completing the landclass & waterclass ...:isadizzy:

Hi Uncle
These islands are not the easiest to realize but these projects give to encounter all the kind of issues that the ground modelling from srtm data can offer it's a good practice stage to get some experience on the subject http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon23.gif http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon14.gif

"...
land & watermask done for remaining South Andaman Islands & Little Andaman Island

just starting the coastlines ..."
If you already have the Landmask for an island you can get the coastlines from its line and its points ,refer you to my first post of the thread...but
If you are drawing coastlines to make them various on a previous already drawed forget that I've said just before

JP

[UncleTgt]

Yes Jean, I find that method can work for small simple shapes, but the larger more complicated islands seem to give errors when I try to compile - anyway, most of these have a mixture of seashore & river coasts, so I need to draw them by hand:icon_lol:.

My workaround has been to draw in sections as coastlines that don't have closed ends (you can see) - that almost always works.

The thing I struggle with is using G2K in 256 colour mode. The bitmap jumps around a lot when you're trying to place landmasks/ coastlines, depending on the zoom you use, & it doesn't always match well with the mesh. This is especially noticeable when I try to add streams/ rivers, as the freely available maps for the Andamans aren't that detailed. Because I'm working in 256 colours, I can't use the geotiff as a background to show me exactly where the bottoms of the valleys are - so many colours just show as grey. So I'm placing/ flying/ making adjustments/ rinse & repeat ...:isadizzy:

Any ideas how I can get a clear contour map from the geotiff that will show in 256 colour?

Couple more screenies to be going on with ...

[Jean Bomber]

Hi Uncle

"more complicated islands seem to give errors when I try to compile "
It's why on these kind of places I begin always to draw the first line with the coastlines vtp1 even if starting with 64m of width I will finish the line at 12 or 8m in the most difficult cases ,it's not important to have more if it's planned to redraw various coast in this guideline.
From this first vtp1 line,save as /renaiming the project"LM"or"WM"
/ changing the attribut in the dialog box: lines to poly without shore,land or water
/ changing the bgl name xxxLM or xxxWM
,even if the angles are the most acute,the land and watermask will be compiled without problem
About the visual comfort of the bmp ,the geo tiff size 6001x7091 give that distance betwen 2 px is around 76 to 90m ,but for these steps of the scenery no need to draw too much in details the goal is just to keep a marge (1 or 2 px) to make that the shore stay at 0 m near of how they are in the reality by their forms.The interesting places could be made later at fs lod6 sized upper detailled .
To draw a river in a deep and curved valley and keep it's way at the right place is not easy....
,you seem also use the black and white pic that you can get directly from the Tiff with xnview for example,with microdem you can get a colored bmp (and more) from this tiff Dem but even if the reliefs will be more visible that stay not so easy to draw this same river .
A solution could be to draw this river with the fsuipc option (new line/show location in the g2k project) and with a slow mode flight in cfs2 that will depend now of your talent of pilot ......http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif

JP

[SdC Redux]

The buggy line compilation of ground2k has been one of my biggest frustrations OF MY LIFE....(yes, sad)
I just hope my algorithms will be more robust. If I get it working, you should be able to run your ground2k LWM files through cfs2autocoast to to generate the BGL as well.

[Jean Bomber]

I hope that you concretise your projects ,the most interesting to do with g2k are the small sized project (around a lod6) for cities port airfield etc...
In larger scale the tool ....and our nerves .... show their limits .....:a1451:

JP

[UncleTgt]

Hi Uncle

[QUOTE]
"more complicated islands seem to give errors when I try to compile "
It's why on these kind of places I begin always to draw the first line with the coastlines vtp1 even if starting with 64m of width I will finish the line at 12 or 8m in the most difficult cases ,it's not important to have more if it's planned to redraw various coast in this guideline.
From this first vtp1 line,save as /renaiming the project"LM"or"WM"
/ changing the attribut in the dialog box: lines to poly without shore,land or water
/ changing the bgl name xxxLM or xxxWM"


I see, I've been working watermask/ landmask/ vtp1 - a better way (to check the vtp1 will compile) is vtp1/ landmask/ watermask, saving to different LWM filenames each time ... brilliantly simple!! Why didn't I think of that :isadizzy:



"To draw a river in a deep and curved valley and keep it's way at the right place is not easy....
,you seem also use the black and white pic that you can get directly from the Tiff with xnview for example,with microdem you can get a colored bmp (and more) from this tiff Dem but even if the reliefs will be more visible that stay not so easy to draw this same river ."


But even if I try to save the coloured bmp as 8 bit, much of it still shows in G2K as grey, because I'm having to run G2K in 256 colour mode (otherwise it crashes when I try to move around the large 6000 x 6000 bmp) ... I was just hoping someonw knew of a foolproof way of saving the geotiff colour into 256 colours so it will show up the contour differences when viewed in G2K:mixedsmi:


"A solution could be to draw this river with the fsuipc option (new line/show location in the g2k project) and with a slow mode flight in cfs2 that will depend now of your talent of pilot ......http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif "

LOL I'll stay with the slow & steady method - I'm nowhere near that good (or patient!!).:icon_lol:

[rhumbaflappy]

Should Sander get his project to accept SBuilder files, and create VTP1 lines from them, we can say goodbye to G2K. He's working on it again, and hopefully we'll see something soon.

SBuilder can import BLN files, and these can be made/exported from SBuilderX ( a much more powerful and memory-friendly program ). SBuilderX allows you to import multiple background images, or use tiles from Google, Bing! or Yahoo. ( Sometimes Googlw will block the tiles, but the other sources work well). SBuilderX also allows the import of ESRI SHP files, which can then be saved as BLN. The BLN files are polygons and lines.

This path ( SBuilderX, SBuilder, cfs2AutoCoast ) will provide a 'state of the art' method for CFS2 terrain design.

Dick

[Jean Bomber]

Richard had made a program that prevent the "auto redraw" I don't know if that will resolve your issue,but take a look to the link in this post and it works there is also the vtp1 fix and LEC an useful tool to take the coords of the diverse LODs of the Fs series
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?712-Ground2k-starting-for-CFS2&daysprune=-1

:ernae:
JP

[SdC Redux]

Should Sander get his project to accept SBuilder files, and create VTP1 lines from them, we can say goodbye to G2K. He's working on it again, and hopefully we'll see something soon.

SBuilder can import BLN files, and these can be made/exported from SBuilderX ( a much more powerful and memory-friendly program ). SBuilderX allows you to import multiple background images, or use tiles from Google, Bing! or Yahoo. ( Sometimes Googlw will block the tiles, but the other sources work well). SBuilderX also allows the import of ESRI SHP files, which can then be saved as BLN. The BLN files are polygons and lines.

This path ( SBuilderX, SBuilder, cfs2AutoCoast ) will provide a 'state of the art' method for CFS2 terrain design.

Dick
I haven't looked at the SBuilderX native file format yet, but already BLN can be imported into cfs2autocoast. so the Sbuilder step probably won't be necessary in most cases. But BLN files don't contain much metadata (like line type/texture) so I would prefer a more elaborate intermediate format. I have talked to Luis Sa in the past about hooking up my code directly to his to create a complete dedicated cfs2 Sbuilder version. Luis was not adverse to the idea (once I convinced him it would require little to no effort from himself, lol); once I get my code in order I'll drop him another mail.

[SdC Redux]

....using G2K in 256 colour mode...
Why on earth would you want to do that?????

[UncleTgt]

Don't want to, but it crashes if I scroll across a large bmp unless I reduce to 256 colour (WIN XP operating system, fairly old PC - G2K shortcut/properties/run in 256 colour...)

I'll try Rhumbas autoload prog (thanks for the link Jean) & see if that allows me to run with a higher colour setting ...

[Jean Bomber]

I remember to already have some "auro redraw" message working with a bmp largest than 6000x6000 pix with my previous laptop even if it had a more powerful graphic card ,with the new laptop I'm now able to work with largest pics like the geotiff 6000x 7090 saved as a 24bit bmp even it have a poor intel family chipset as graphic module ,surely something about the new generation of processor and components ,I could not tell more about these technical subject .

JP

[UncleTgt]

Tried Richard's auto redraw prog - it works the same way as switching to 256 colours to run G2K. So, I guess the river's will take a lot longer to get perfectly in position ...

[Jean Bomber]

Tried Richard's auto redraw prog - it works the same way as switching to 256 colours to run G2K. So, I guess the river's will take a lot longer to get perfectly in position ...

Hi Uncle
I advice you to give a try with the fsuipc ,fs connect, record line method that give some good result for some difficult and mis identified places ,even if in slow speed that could give some acrobatic flights ,need also to find the flying machine to do that ... a Baldy copter could be a good vehicle.
For your future projects try to use an another bitmap under 5000x5000 ,to work from mesh datas the classical strm3 v2.1 hgts are better in size if you want work in smaller areas they cover 1*x1* each ,around 6 cell (lod8), and the bitmap is 1200x1200.
with the Martin wright's log fs terrain 2002 or Microdem you can get a nice bmp.
http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/
there are also the corresponding swdb shape files
http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SWBD/
need to have Tatuk viewer to get the png bmp or jpg.the size is under to 4200x4200,not always square that depend of the water.
I saw that slartibartfast have a "rivers" function ,working with mesh datas, but the lines are drawed as vtp2 line ,I think this method will need later a try when Sander could convert the vtp2 to vtp1.
Slarti have also an interesting landclass function that work with the level of altitude ,very good for the hight montains chains where the band of vegetations ,forest and snow are very marqued ,I need before to try it to completly understand how slarti works, the manuel is not very clear for me today.....:mixedsmi:

JP

[SdC Redux]

...,even if in slow speed that could give some acrobatic flights ,need also to find the flying machine to do that ... a Baldy copter could be a good vehicle....
JP
That's what Slew mode is for....

[UncleTgt]

Jean, I'll give it a try, but as the desktop is in 256 colour whilst G2K is running, that means running CFS2 in 256 colour also.
I tried it when I first started flying coastlines, looking for errors, & the loss of definition was so awful it was really hard to get anything useful.:isadizzy:

In the end I took screenshots with Martins multigrab, then fired up G2K & attempted to correct, rinse & repeat etc. I guess I need to do the same for (all the) rivers.

... there are a lot of small rivers (& not very good {free} maps)!

I was hoping I could get the mesh displayed in 256 colours so I could use it as a background & guide any alterations to the river courses I have already drawn.

Don't get me wrong, the majority are pretty much in the right place, but every now & then you come across one that just moves up & over a ridgeline:angryfir::banghead:

Status is:-

All LWM polys & coastlines are done, including road & small rivers. For now, I stuck with the stock sandy beach coastlines, as this is very much a first try, but I can see possibilities for no beach areas of coastline. I think everywhere needs some sort of breaking wave showing though, no coastline at all just doesn't look right, as you lose the whitecaps.
Landclass & waterclass are both done, including the shallow offshore banks/ reefs.
Haven't yet done any offshore breaker lines for reefs, or inland reservoirs or pools, or wider expanses of sand shore.
I'm still debating whether I should, as the photos show them there in a few places, but on the whole much less pronounced than the Pacific lagoons.
No details for towns & villages & no attempts at gsl work. Small village areas are represented by small clearings. No gsl work in these areas or Port Blair.
One thing I have noticed is Port Blair airfield (Xavier EAWII 2006 pack) will need some work now. The flatten is too large, & the background bmp doesn't match the rest of the landclass. A fully blended Port Blair would be nice.

[Jean Bomber]

The rivers are also an issue for me there are many oueds in Afnor and they are often in very closed valley or canyons I think I will use these fsuipc way that's could be a funny challenge,that will need also a special texture ,a new vtp1 lines for the dry parts of these rivers ,you could , about your beachs ,create two differents lines or a new one keeping the default and your new with wave adding that in the g2k ownlines.txt ant put this bmp texture in ....Yourscenery\texture and in your ...world\scenedb\texture to make it appear in g2k dialog box, anyway the stocks default cfs2 lines are too few we need to add some if we want get some variations in the shores and ways lines .
I think about the Xavier's airfield the corrections could be done with bgl analyse (bgl-->Scasm txt altitude corrections, etc... --> bgl ),and adapting the backgd landclass or perhaps also in altering the alpha channel ...

JP

[UncleTgt]

Trying to fly CFS2 in 256 colour mode so I can use G2K is a hoot! :icon_lol:The pixellation is so bad you can hardly tell where the terrain lies ....:pop4:

I found a partial workaround. Not perfect, but pretty close.

I used Microdem to open the SRTM geotiff.

Amongst the amend/ edit options you can choose "elevations"

One of the colour options is 25 or 45 colours. Choose either of these (depends on the hillyness of the terrain) & then save the amended as a bmp.

The bmp will now show in G2K. Colour banding helps in reading the terrain. Still have detail placement issues, but that's because the background bmp moves around as you force redraw because you've scrolled onto a new screen area.

What I do is to draw the rivers using a map background, then reload G2K using a this terrain bmp as background, & adjust the position/ placement of the rivers accordingly.

Not perfect result, but most of what I've seen so far is as much to do with the line width & line bmp "wiggle" as anything.

:mixedsmi:

[UncleTgt]

I think it's pretty much complete.

I tried drawing some offshore whitecaps & decided it would require too much reworking to match & blend with the waterclass work so I removed them again.

Some screenies follow

[UncleTgt]

I decided to do the Nicobars in the same style, to complete the island group.

For info., this will complete all the island groups in SRTM55_10 & SRTM55_11.

I'll then upload as a single pack, as they share texture sets.

Possible follow ons:

Airstrips
Would be nice to have an airstrip on Car Nicobar - does anyone know if one has been done before?

I have Xavier's strip at Port Blair, but if I need to learn how to do modify his entry so it blends with the texture set better. The infrastructure needs to be repositioned to match the new coastlines also.

GSL work
At some stage this whole island chain needs some gsl work - lighthouses, piers etc.

[SdC Redux]

...
. The infrastructure needs to be repositioned to match the new coastlines also.
....
May I suggest you adjust the coastline to match Xaviers field; moving the GSL is going to be really difficult and annoying for the end users; just see how complicated it was when the stock airfields didn't match with Rhumba's new water. Also if missions were developed for those fields, you will break those if you move the actual airstrip; just changing the airbases.dat is not enough, the coordinates are in the mission file as well.

[UncleTgt]

I don't mean the airfield coordinates, it sits just fine (flatten excepted), but there's a bgl for Port Blair that has a couple of pillboxes out in the bay.

Seems a shame to lose all Rhumbas fine work with the world mesh by adjusting the coastlines to suit the old (inaccurate) scenery though ...
:crybaby:

how many missions could it affect - it's not like it's Henderson Field?

[SdC Redux]

....
Seems a shame to lose all Rhumbas fine work with the world mesh by adjusting the coastlines to suit the old (inaccurate) scenery though ...
:crybaby:...
Ummm Rhumba's new water is not to accurate either.... (the mesh is ok, but the LWM is too wet)
Anyway, "accurate" is extremely subjective for a historic sim such as this. The SRTM we now use is from the last decade. A lot of the world has changed considerably since the 40's, through global warming, erosion, reclaiming/building (I'm from Holland; a whole province where 1 million people now live was still water in 1945!)

[rhumbaflappy]

Sander's right.

The water files I made are too wet in many areas. I used Jim Keir's Slartibartfast ( and raster images of the SRTM water body data ) to make the LWMs, and the control of the water is too "loose" when making huge areas. The closer we look, the more apparent it becomes we have no accurate source for LWM.

I don't think sea level and erosion has changed too much of the planet, but man-made coast alterations have occured and volcanoes have changed some coastline areas. I think Rabaul, New Britain was destroyed by a volcano, and a mountain now sits on the old runway, and the coast was also changed in that area.

The mesh I made is OK for most of the planet. We need to hand-draw new water, if we want accuracy. We need to draw our own from either LandSat7 images, or newer images available from Google or Bing! or Yahoo. And this hand-drawing will take a lot of time for rather small areas. Just an LOD5-sized area could take several days.

I think my mass-produced water is better than the default, but it is still not as good as we can get it.

I looked at some commercial samples of waterbody data, and they are just the same old saw-toothed SWBD files cleaned up a bit. There are some commercial data that was used for the FS9 and FSX Ultimate Terrain that's very nice, but it is also very costly.

Dick

[UncleTgt]

OK, I understand, but what's the point of all this work if we need to create fresh polys (which I did do for the Andaman chain), only to then have to fudge the coastlines to make use of the "old" gsl work.

It sounds like we're advocating that it's better just to adding coastlines & a bit of landclass/ waterclass (maybe) over the existing cfs2 scenery?

I'm not sure that is what any of us mean ...

[UncleTgt]

Sander's right.

The water files I made are too wet in many areas. I used Jim Keir's Slartibartfast ( and raster images of the SRTM water body data ) to make the LWMs, and the control of the water is too "loose" when making huge areas. The closer we look, the more apparent it becomes we have no accurate source for LWM. Dick

For what it's worth, I found whilst working that the black "0" elevation in the geotiff did more closely match the mesh than the SRTM waterbody images, which seemed too "aggressive". So, if we're looking to use Rhumbas mesh, a raster image of the black selected from each SRTM geotiff might do the job quite well...

[Jean Bomber]

I don't mean the airfield coordinates, it sits just fine (flatten excepted), but there's a bgl for Port Blair that has a couple of pillboxes out in the bay.
.......


Hi uncle
You can change the altitude of the flatten,by disassembling the airfield a16n bgl ,
you need BglAnalyze
http://www.scenery.org/design_utilities_a.htm
and SCASM exe that you have in your g2k folder
disassemble the a16n bgl or the airfield bgl if you have only one for it,you will get a text .sca , in you will find a paragraph about the a16nflatten ,it's possible to change also the location and some other things....
look in red the altitude


; ----------------------------------------
; Lartigue40 NS.BGL disassembled by BGLAnalyze (c) on Tue Mar 09 17:27:00 2010
; ----------------------------------------
Header( 1 N35:35:02.67 N35:29:38.69 W000:28:28.69 W000:35:06.83 )
LatRange( N35:29:38.69 N35:35:02.67 )
; since SCASM does not support multiple latitude ranges
; the range has been set to the minimum/maximum latitude.
; LatRange information in the BGL file is given as comment.
; If you want to use band separation, you must edit
; the source file manually.
; Insert the "Set( FSVers 0x800 )" instruction at the beginning
; of the file, if you want to use the FS2002 instructions
; for the facilities section
mif( [$Version < 285] )
Error( You need at least SCASM version 2.85 to compile this code )
mifend
; ----------------------------------------
; Procedural scenery
; ----------------------------------------

; LatRange( N35:29:37.75 N35:34:52.89 )
; ----------------------------------------
; ----------------------------------------
; Object # 1, offset: 0x000A size: 152 bytes (0x0098)
;; Lat: 0003C446Eh Lon: 0FF9F2103h
; ----------------------------------------
Area( B N35:32:27.18 W000:31:55.66 40 )
RefPoint( rel : 1.00 N35:32:27.18 W000:31:55.66
V1= -25936 V2= 3960 )
LoadBitmap( 0 5 F0 0 0 0
lartigue_wa.bmp )
Smoothing( 1 )
Points( 0
-1400 0 -1400 ; 0
1400 0 -1400 ; 1
1400 0 1400 ; 2
-1400 0 1400 ; 3
)
TexPoly( m 0 32767 0 0
0 0 0 ; 0
3 0 255 ; 1
2 254 255 ; 2
1 254 0 ; 3
)
ZBias( 0 )
Smoothing( 0 )
EndA
; ----------------------------------------
; Object # 2, offset: 0x00A2 size: 360 bytes (0x0168)
;; Lat: 0003C42E0h Lon: 0FF9F924Dh
; ----------------------------------------
Area( 5 N35:32:14.28 W000:31:46.91 20 )
IfVarRange( :L0000C8 037E -20 20 )
IfVarRange( :L0000C8 0386 -20 20 )
SetVar( 0288 1 )
:L0000C8
PerspectiveCall( :L0000D4 )
ShadowCall( :L0000D6 )
Jump( : )
:L0000D4
Perspective
:L0000D6
RefPoint( rel :L000208 0.06 N35:32:14.29 W000:31:46.91
V1= 2000 V2= 40 )
RotatedCall( :L000102 0 0 0 )
Return
:L000102
TransformCall( :L00011A -312 0 0
0 0000 0 0000 0 0000 )
Return
:L00011A
Points( 0
-8 0 -8 ; 0
-8 0 8 ; 1
8 0 8 ; 2
8 0 -8 ; 3
-8 32 -8 ; 4
-8 32 8 ; 5
8 32 8 ; 6
8 32 -8 ; 7
)
SurfaceColor( 05 F0 )
Poly( m 0 0 -32767 8
0 4 7 3
)
Poly( m 0 0 32767 8
2 6 5 1
)
Poly( m -32767 0 0 8
1 5 4 0
)
Poly( m 0 32767 0 32
4 5 6 7
)
Bitmap( gaspump1.r8 0 64 0 107 )
POverride
TexPoly( m 32767 0 0 8
3 0 0 ; 0
7 0 74 ; 1
6 62 74 ; 2
2 62 0 ; 3
)
MonitorTr( :L000208
-20 0 0
2 2 2
0 0 0 )
SetVar( 0284 14 )
:L000208
Return
EndA
; sorted list of objects
; N35:32:14.28 W000:31:46.91 Object # 2
; N35:32:27.18 W000:31:55.66 Object # 1
; ----------------------------------------
; ADF section; ----------------------------------------

; LatRange( N35:29:37.75 N35:34:52.89 )
; ----------------------------------------
NDB( 390.00 90 DAOL NDB_1 N35:32:30.80 W000:31:49.72 0 )
; ----------------------------------------
; Miscellaneous section
; ----------------------------------------

; LatRange( N35:29:37.75 N35:34:52.89 )
; ----------------------------------------
Area16N
Flatten( 112.000 <<<<<<<<<<<change the value in meter <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
N35:31:50.69 W000:32:18.46 ; vertex 1
N35:31:46.02 W000:32:16.39 ; vertex 2
N35:31:45.06 W000:32:13.69 ; vertex 3
N35:31:44.41 W000:32:07.79 ; vertex 4
N35:31:45.06 W000:31:44.86 ; vertex 5
N35:31:46.36 W000:31:41.84 ; vertex 6
N35:31:49.08 W000:31:37.85 ; vertex 7
N35:31:51.67 W000:31:32.92 ; vertex 8
N35:31:56.60 W000:31:29.57 ; vertex 9
N35:32:22.13 W000:31:19.62 ; vertex 10
N35:32:23.58 W000:31:19.22 ; vertex 11
N35:32:25.27 W000:31:19.06 ; vertex 12
N35:32:36.09 W000:31:19.06 ; vertex 13
N35:32:38.81 W000:31:19.22 ; vertex 14
N35:32:47.30 W000:31:20.33 ; vertex 15
N35:32:58.12 W000:31:22.25 ; vertex 16
N35:32:59.29 W000:31:22.88 ; vertex 17
N35:33:00.00 W000:31:23.84 ; vertex 18
N35:33:04.00 W000:31:45.34 ; vertex 19
N35:33:04.50 W000:31:49.80 ; vertex 20
N35:33:03.08 W000:31:54.89 ; vertex 21
N35:32:50.51 W000:32:22.45 ; vertex 22
N35:32:41.69 W000:32:42.67 ; vertex 23
N35:32:39.88 W000:32:44.11 ; vertex 24
N35:32:36.83 W000:32:44.42 ; vertex 25
N35:32:32.95 W000:32:43.79 ; vertex 26
N35:32:29.32 W000:32:42.03 ; vertex 27
N35:32:23.62 W000:32:39.17 ; vertex 28
N35:32:15.06 W000:32:33.91 ; vertex 29
N35:32:02.88 W000:32:25.95 ; vertex 30
)
End16

; ----------------------------------------
; AFD Section
; ----------------------------------------
; ----------------------------------------
; Object # 1, offset: 000437, size: 412 bytes
; ----------------------------------------
Container( APT 1 )
APLocation( N35:32:20.70 W000:31:47.70 0 )
ICAO_ID( DAOL )
RwyLoc( N35:32:30.19 W000:31:50.28 0
0 3.50 ; true heading, mag.var.
5904 180 ; length, width
N 36 100 ) ; rwy type, number and surface
RwyLoc( N35:32:29.02 W000:31:56.89 0
75 3.50 ; true heading, mag.var.
5904 197 ; length, width
N 36 2 ) ; rwy type, number and surface
SetupLoc( N35:32:01.68 W000:31:50.28 0
0 1 ; heading, type
N 36 ) ; runway type, number
SetupLoc( N35:32:58.70 W000:31:50.28 0
180 1 ; heading, type
N 18 ) ; runway type, number
SetupLoc( N35:32:21.65 W000:32:30.73 0
75 1 ; heading, type
N 36 ) ; runway type, number
SetupLoc( N35:32:36.40 W000:31:23.05 0
255 1 ; heading, type
N 18 ) ; runway type, number
EndC
; ----------------------------------------
; Object # 2, offset: 0005D3, size: 88 bytes
; ----------------------------------------
Container( NDB 2 )
Navaid( N35:32:30.84 W000:31:49.64 0
0 0.3900 ; heading, frequency
3 3 0; navaid type, class and flags
"DAOL" )
EndC
; Namelists
Namelist( 0409 ) ; language
NameEntry( REGION 0 "Africa" )
NameEntry( COUNTRY 0 "Algeria" )
NameEntry( STATE 0 "France" )
NameEntry( NDB 2 "NDB 1" )
NameEntry( CITY 0 "Tafaraoui" )
NameEntry( AIRPORT 1 "LartigueBAN40" )
EndNL
; ----------------------------------------
; end of SCASM source


put the airfield.sca in the folder where is the SCASM.exe ,drop the airfield.sca file on it ,then you will get a new airfield.bgl http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon23.gif
here there is some advices about the fssc airfield bgl
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?20369-Afd

About the gsl Gavinc has did a rework of some cfs2 stock airfields gsl to fit whit the new masks,I don't know how he did it but I suppose that he had used The Martin Whright gsl tool to make the changes.

:wavey:

JP

[rhumbaflappy]

For what it's worth, I found whilst working that the black "0" elevation in the geotiff did more closely match the mesh than the SRTM waterbody images, which seemed too "aggressive". So, if we're looking to use Rhumbas mesh, a raster image of the black selected from each SRTM geotiff might do the job quite well...

This is a good method for coastlines... using the images of actual 0 elevation. Good idea. The only problem is when some coasts extend outward at 0 elevation. SBuilderX lets polys be transparent, so they show over background imagees, so a coast could be quickly checked in that program. I think Sander's Coastline project will allow SBuilderX exports to be used.

I also agree that if GSL was made using faulty placement data, and it's way out of place, then the GSL should be replaced. I also think GSL should be kept fairly sparse... let the missions control the explodable objects and landmarks. :)

Dick

[Jean Bomber]

Hi all


The only problem is when some coasts extend outward at 0 elevation
and

Anyway, "accurate" is extremely subjective for a historic sim such as this. The SRTM we now use is from the last decade. A lot of the world has changed considerably since the 40's, through global warming, erosion, reclaiming/building (I'm from Holland; a whole province where 1 million people now live was still water in 1945!)
Today the ports are became terminal for passengers contener or oil ,there is some nuclear centrals,many marinas etc...that was built since,the srtm pics integre all these modern extension of the coasts .
It's the reason why I make layer in psp with the Terry Castaneda (for ex) maps and srtm_v2 or gtiff,or any "paper map" I find about the places, to get the final backg. bmp,even if the projection is lightly different ,that give infos about how was the coast in the 40's ,keeping the srtm in priority as guide line for what is common(+90%).
That is good for the hand method ....


JP

[UncleTgt]

Jean,

Thanks for the airfield info. I'm ready to dip a toe in, but it's another learning curve ...

Dick,

Getting a little off topic, but I'm wondering how hand-drawing using old maps fits in with Sdc's autocoast tool?

It seems we're after accuracy, but accept that coastlines have changed, but then worry about using the "zero" elevation to automatically map our coastlines?

There's so much to do, we need Sander's automated process to get anywhere...

If we're automating the process, wouldn't zero elevation be acceptable, so long as we can go in afterwards & adjust/ modify for those (smaller) areas that have significant amounts of land <= 0 elevation? (the obvious candidates being areas of holland, for example):kilroy:

Thanks for everyone's help & understanding. I'm sorry if people feel like we're going over old ground, but I'm new to all of this, & I need to understand how we are where we are (now I'm confusing myself :icon_lol:)

[SdC Redux]

....
Getting a little off topic, but I'm wondering how hand-drawing using old maps fits in with Sdc's autocoast tool?
.....
There's so much to do, we need Sander's automated process to get anywhere...


when using SBuilder, you can create a new blank project, import the Line/poly info (either SHP, FS9-type BGL, BLN or whatever) for a large area.
You can then either EDIT THIS PROJECT IN SBUILDER to enhance small area's (SBuilder allows you to import multiple background images into a single project), or you can DELETE the lines/poly's if you want to fit it around existing ground2k scenery, then save the project, export as SBX file, run it through cfs2autocoast to generate the cfs2 bgl's.

[UncleTgt]

Sander,

Thanks for the clarification - I had the sequence wrong in my head:redface:

No experience of Sbuilder, but it sounds sooooo much more flexible than G2K - can't wait!

[SdC Redux]

Sander,

Thanks for the clarification - I had the sequence wrong in my head:redface:

No experience of Sbuilder, but it sounds sooooo much more flexible than G2K - can't wait!

The core of the cfs2autocoast application is that you can feed any type of coordinate line (vector) into it, and it will spit out vtp1/a16n/lwm BGL's. It doesn't matter how big or small the area or how many lines.
When this core is working, basically I can program any interface into it to read various file formats. Right now, I've focussed on SBX files since these are easiest to process and SBuilder can handle so many source file types, and it fits MY personal vision of a conversion method. But if you guys need other data sources converted, or process them differently, or apply data converions along the way, I can easily program interfaces for that. My code is pretty clean and object-oriented so we can be extremely flexible.

[Jean Bomber]

Salut tous!
[QUOTE], mais c'est une autre courbe d'apprentissage ...
[/ QUOTE]
Si c'est un changement que l'altitude de l'aérodrome, vous verrez, c'est très facile ;)


[QUOTE] C'est une bonne méthode pour les côtes ... en utilisant les images des réels 0 élévation. Excellente idée. Le seul problème, c'est quand certaines côtes s'étendent vers l'extérieur à 0 élévation [/ QUOTE]
C'est juste une idée ...... Je me souviens quand j'ai fait mon mailles première fois il ya cinq ans avec la strm_v1 n'est pas corrigé, dans Blackard pour effacer les nombreux bruits de la mer qui ont ces hauteurs à la première version, elle était nécessaire pour définir le niveau de la mer à-3m, qui donnent à calmer les océans et les supprimer également toutes les zones de l'intérieur qui a été à 0m reconnue comme eau et donnez-leur que la terre ....
pourrait-il possible, en utilisant geotiff avec slarti ou autocoast, pour faire des masques de «truquées» prise avec une niveau de la mer défini à-3m puis utilisez-les avec maille normale avec la mer défini à 0M?
Je sais qu'il ne pouvait pas être aussi claire, mais vous pouvez lire sur l'outil Blackart le tuto article complet sur la façon de réparer DEM SRTM peut-être que pourrait donner quelques idées pour résoudre ces zone immergée dans un processus automatisé ....
http://www.terrainmap.com/ lire le "Supprimer les mouchetures SRTM Water Areas " Partie dans le SRTM DEM réparation à l'aide Blackart (http://www.terrainmap.com/rm38.html) chapitre de la gauche de l'écran
la langue anglaise est également mieux ......



[QUOTE ].... Je suis désolé si les gens se sentent comme si nous étions déjà-vu, mais je suis nouveau à tout cela, et j'ai besoin de comprendre comment nous en sommes là (maintenant je suis confuse moi-même :icon_lol:) ....[/ QUOTE]

Peu importe! Il existe peu d'expériences sur le sujet sur lesquels nous travaillons, presque tout ce que nous essayons de faire est nouvelle et donne de nombreuses questions sur la façon de progrès à faire cette tâche sur les façons diverses

JP

[MaskRider]

Hi guys,

Which version of SBuilder do we need to get up and running?

[SdC Redux]

http://www.ptsim.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=40&Itemid=18
SBuilder for FS2004 to start with.
SBulderX for FSX will possibly be necessery for SHP file conversion, but not right now.

Using SBuilder instead of our old ground2k has the added bonus that your projects can be compiled for fs9 as well, and I'm sure there are a lot of civvie pilots that have retro-fitted their fs9 install to 30's-40's style (Golden Wings) that would appriciate hand-made enhancements.

[MaskRider]

During the initial start up SBuilderFS9 keeps giving me a message that FS2004 does not exist on my computer. Then the start up stops.

FS2004 is installed. However, I only have FS2004 basic- not the deluxe version. Would that make a difference?

[SdC Redux]

If you installed FSX after installing FS9 on your PC, the FS9 registry entries will have disappeared, and SBuilder cannot find FS9 any more. Either reinstall FS9 (aaaarrhggg) or fix the registry; check the following link:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19613&postcount=10

[SdC Redux]

After I installed sbuilder, I just copied the "C:\program files\sbuilder" folder to my FS tools folder, and have been moving that from computer to computer without re-installing; works just fine, even if fs9 is not installed on that machine!

[MaskRider]

Thanks Sander. That did it.

[Jean Bomber]

AAArrggggh

I think I've made a mistake with the translator tool editing the post ,it's in french........
do you want i redo it ?

JP

[SdC Redux]

AAArrggggh

I think I've made a mistake with the translator tool editing the post ,it's in french........
do you want i redo it ?

JP
Pour moi, ce n'est pas necessaire; peut etre pour les autres....

[Jean Bomber]

Salut Sander !:salute:
Have you untersdood the message ?
It's just an idea because comparing the Dick's masks with those I did in common places ,they are more inland and lightly drop on some reliefs,hand drawing we compense that in keeping 1,2 or 3 pixels forward in the sea part ,perhaps faking the sea level to -3 m that could reproduce in automated way the corrections we do handly ,expanding the land part with these some pixels allow also to not use flattens .

JP

[Jean Bomber]

Baaahh......
I redo it .....not exactly equal .....damned google toolbar !.......


I'm ready to dip a toe in, but it's another learning curve ...
If it’s only to change the altitude ,you will see it’s very easy ;)



The only problem is when some coasts extend outward at 0 elevation
It’s just an idea an hypothèse of work ……I remember when I did my first meshes ,five years ago, with the srtm_v1 “not corrected” ,with Blackard to erase the specking noise of the sea ,that was many in these first heights pics, It was needed to set the sea level at -3m.,that calmed the water ,flatten the sea and fix all the land 0m areas, that was showed as water previously and recognize now as land.
Could it be possible ,using Geotiff with slarti or autocoast,to do somes watermasks from "faked" mesh ,with the sea to -3m, and place them on normal ,0m sea level, meshes.
I know that could seem not clear but you can read the full rewiew/tuto:
http://www.terrainmap.com/
"SRTM DEM repair Using BLACKART" on the list band on the left
The english language is also better......
from the “Despeckling SRTM Water Areas” chapter :


......
Despeckling SRTM Water Areas
One common type of problem that occurs with SRTM radar imagery over water is speckling or noise. Water surfaces generally produce radar backscatter that often results in noisy images. The surface of the DEM may thus be "speckled" with positive and negative deviations from the actual zero sea-level elevation values. (In addition, coastlines may not be well defined.) An example of this problem is shown in the first image to the right. It is a tile taken from the Eurasia data set, file number N00E073, which is somewhere in the Pacific Ocean south of Sri Lanka. There are actually two problems. The first one is that sea level is a little off, averaging about 3m. The second is the noise. Both these problems are relatively easy to fix.
The oceans can be calmed by shifting the entire data set a couple of meters closer to the center of the earth (actually, the reference geoid.) To do this, select Image|Array Operations| Offset Arrays. Enter -3m into the text field in the dialog box and hit 'Submit'. All the elevations will be decremented by this amount.
.......



Thanks for everyone's help & understanding. I'm sorry if people feel like we're going over old ground, but I'm new to all of this, & I need to understand how we are where we are (now I'm confusing myself :icon_lol:)

No matter ! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon23.gif
there are few experiences about the subject we working on ,almost what we do is new and there are many questions for the diverse way to use and the method .

JP

[SdC Redux]

Salut Sander !:salute:
Have you untersdood the message ?
It's just an idea because comparing the Dick's masks with those I did in common places ,they are more inland and lightly drop on some reliefs,hand drawing we compense that in keeping 1,2 or 3 pixels forward in the sea part ,perhaps faking the sea level to -3 m that could reproduce in automated way the corrections we do handly ,expanding the land part with these some pixels allow also to not use flattens .

JP
Hmmm.... that would all be very complicated. I first want to see how LWM/shorelines created from SRTM SHP's compare with the mesh. If that is better than Rhmba's water, then it will not be necessery.
A bientot,
-Sander

[UncleTgt]

OK, think it's just about done.

Nicobars completed

Port Blair airfield tweaked to match background better

Haven't touched the gsl - it's xavier's burma gsl that puts a couple of bukers into the bay NW of Port Blair.

Thinking about making Car Nicobar airstrip in FSSC, but it's another learning curve for me, & perhaps it's better to release everything as it is now ...

[Jean Bomber]

Hi all
I've writed:

"....expanding the land part with these some pixels allow also to not use flattens"


I should add :….in the mostly cases except for some particular places like cliffs falling directly at 180* into the sea like the Lampedusa island west coast …in this cases a flatten with fssc or builderX is needed to give the nearest aspect possible in FS of the island .



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2422




I will joint in the next AfnorII scenery Pantelleria , Lampedusa and Linola Three little “Pelagie” islands, confetis lands between Sicylia and Tunisia some dozen of miles of Malta ,Lampedusa and Pantelleria will have airfields ports and seabases to make some fighter sweeps :jump: ,and Linola only a port/seaplane base for the sailors http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon22.gif



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2415




These Islands are some of kind of “mini worlds” where it’s possible to try diverse set of textures to try to find the "color" of the north africa theatre scenery(Morocco,Algéria,Tunisia) that I distinct of the desert theatre (Lybia,Egypt)That need an other set of textures,the AfnorII ,"Afnor_scen", will have a specific land and water texture folder ,the "Afnor_base" texture folder will also have ,as water textures,the Otiz “green” "delta river set" that will make the rivers lakes and dirty ports, WC working with a separate WCbgl in "Afnor_base"/scenery , for these particulary places .
The coral waters , WCbgl, of the pegalie islands works today with my Truk scenery texture folder where I use the Uncle Tg's “b”version,but that could be in an other folder called "Coral_water "…..


http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2416




The "drawing coastlines and masks" is not the part where I spare the most of my time ,the way is clearly balised starting from a good Bkgd bmp …,the other parts of the “global” afnor scenery are also consuming time ,airfields masks and datas, land and waterclass ,lay/gsl objects "selection" step to find the most suitables in the scenery to “feel the mood” and for the fps ….

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1634


Searching for some “indigènes” objects and don’t been finding entire satisfaction in the choice of the already existing I’ve ask to Wolfi his help if it could be possible to include African buildings in his future or current projects…He had friendly reply and have already made some new objects like casbah wall gate tower,houses and one mosquee that give the nice exotical touch and now it’s an other theatre .
"here..., It’s Africa,Man !" http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon22.gif_http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon14.gif

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2419

sorry for the size of the pics .....:icon_lol:

JP

[UncleTgt]

:applause::ernae::jump:

encore, encore!

[Jean Bomber]

:applause::ernae::jump:

encore, encore!

You can watch some more here :

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/album.php?albumid=252

it's a WIP and I will add some news during the finalize of the AF PartII http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon26.gif

JP

[UncleTgt]

Been building an airstrip on Car Nicobar ...

& getting to grips with FSSC & GSL editing ...

[Jean Bomber]

....,Been building airstrips

& getting to grips with FSSC & GSL editing ....

same stituation for me I'm around Tunis to continue the Afnor scenery using the cfs2 time machine http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif

JP

[Rami]

Jean bomber,

Well worth the wait...wow! :salute:

[Jean Bomber]

Hi Rami http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon23.gif

there many things to do but the main lines are drawed the rest are only the finitions,the thinned step,there are also the mask ,gsl and data parts...and don't to forget the land water class values to alter...:mixedsmi: ...but the result is flyable.
What is your advice about the choice for a B17 cfs2 version to use to reproduce the life42 over Tunis pic ,making mission and screenies :kilroy:

JP

[Rami]

Well,

The FDG2 B-17E would certainly fit the bill, the trouble is...I don't know of any Med skins for the B-17E. The B-17F wouldn't have been avail en masse until 1943.

[UncleTgt]

I've uploaded a beta version of Andaman & Nicobar Islands.

Fresh LWM polys, coastlines rivers & roads.
Dedicated texture sets
2 new airfields, Car Nicobar & Port Blair Seaplane
Reworked Xavier's Port Blair airbase to blend in
"neutral" gsl work to give simple renderings of settlements - no AA, vehicles or shipping
Found I was spending too much time trying out version after version of gsl layouts, & decided it was better to release as a beta & let the gsl experts improve on things - I think I'm better suited to drawing & painting ...:sleep: