Sid and Star charts

[limjack]

A couple questions.

Where do you guys get your charts from (free ones if possible)? I did find the Airnav.com but does not look like all the sid and star charts are there. It is enough to get me going though.

ATC, do I shut this down? I tried flying a rout using the sid and star chart . All was ok on departure but when I was approching my destination ATC was trying to vector me in on a differnt rout to the same runway.

I am currently involved with the PMDG 747 and now learning how to input my flight plan into the FMC.

Thanks for any help as always

Jim

[IanP]

Sources for up-to-date charts vary, unfortunately, as some countries require payment for them, while others allow access to them for free. The US and UK, I believe you can download them for free.

I use the free version of vroute.info to look up flightplans quite often and usually, when you go to a plan using that, you will find a link to charts, but not always. Another option is FSCommander, which allows you to view SIDs and STARs as part of the flight planning procedure in that. I have the demo of FSC and would really like to get the full version, but it's not cheap and funds don't stretch to it right now. It's right at the top of the list, though. An advantage of FSC is that it can be updated using Navigraph data (the same source as the PMDG B744 uses) so if you get updates from Navigraph, FSC, vroute.info and your jet's databases will all match.

[limjack]

Thanks IanP, will check them out.

Jim

[Dain Arns]

Don't know if this will help. I use a plug-in for Google Earth, has lower 48 and Alaska:

http://www.gelib.com/tag/aeronautical-chart

EDIT: Looks like probably won't help. Sorry.


I run FS Earth which connects Google Earth to FSX, and have my laptop work as the moving map display, so I can use the charts plug-in or switch to satellite view. :kilroy:

[TeaSea]

Regarding the ATC....I too have tried to shut this down, to no avail.

Obviously you are aware that when making an approach or using a SID or STAR you can accept vectors or fly "as published". In the real world ATC will assume that you are going to want vectors. If you don't want that you normally request the "full approach" or departure, and then you go off on your way, advising ATC only when required (Procedure turns, etc...).

It seems to me that ATC in the sim defaults to reality in that it wants to vector you.....with no option to turn it off.

The only thing I've done is request termination of services...which is pain when you you're trying to depart under IMC. The Sim won't let you -- well, officially anyway.

If anyone has found a way around this I'm like limjack in that I'd sure like to know.

[ryanbatc]

Sky Vector for IFR/VFR sectional charts

http://beta.skyvector.com/

NACO for US charts, and VATSIM chartfinder for the rest

http://naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp

http://usa-w.vatsim.net/charts/

[limjack]

The mother load!

Thanks Ryanbatc, that is exactly what I need. :icon29::icon29::icon29:

I am really enjoying learning this part of the sim, using these charts and so forth so these sites will help out a lot. Funny how this sim just keeps sucking me in futher and further. I used to just enjoy getting up in the air and looking at the scenery below with no clearance, just hit the runway and away I go. Who would of thunk I would be programing a FMC, cold starting a 747 and using sid and star charts to plan my flights...I'm going to need to retire early just to get full enjoyment out of this hobby!:icon_lol: Hmmmm, what will be next?

Thanks again

Jim

[Lionheart]

You can buy them at the airports too. Its kind of neat to have it beside you like the real thing, and be able to look at them and study them in the physical rather then a computer screen.


Bill

[Kiwikat]

You can buy them at the airports too. Its kind of neat to have it beside you like the real thing, and be able to look at them and study them in the physical rather then a computer screen.


Bill

+200

I love my low altitude airways book for the whole USA, even if it is a couple years old now. I also have a few airport directories and sectional charts for my part of the country. Paper charts are definitely the cool way to do it and really add to the experience.

That being said, I still use skyvector.com and myairplane.com quite often.


EDIT: LOL why am I up at 220 AM posting on SOH. :isadizzy: :icon_lol: :pop4:

[moore1018]

One more to add to the list is myairplane.com. Here's a link to their approach plates database:
http://dtpp.myairplane.com/index.php?mode=d

[CaptainCernick]

A couple questions.
ATC, do I shut this down? I tried flying a rout using the sid and star chart . All was ok on departure but when I was approching my destination ATC was trying to vector me in on a differnt rout to the same runway.
Jim

Contrary to popular belief, FS does allow you to fly SIDS an STARS. It just takes a bit of extra effort (especially SIDS) and it will not always exactly be as it happens "IRL"

STARS and APPROACHES:

FS ATC allows you to request a published approach for most 'big' airports.
To do so, wait until ATC contacts you with your aproach clearance
Something like this: "N700MS expect vectors ILS runway 07R"

Instead of acknowledging, select:
"Stand by" [Request different approach from controller]
If you don't get this option in the ATC pop-up, it means that your virtual destination does not have STARS built in. In that case, I usually just cancel IFR and follow the published procedure until I arrive to the point where ATC would usually hand me over to the tower.

You then get a list of possible transitions (not exactly STARS, but good enough). Sometimes they don't exactly match the approach plate/STAR you want to follow, but that doesn't matter, because at this point, ATC will not bother you with vectors (not even for traffic) until you contact the tower of your destination airport.

ATC will then comply to your request, saying something along the lines of:
"0MS, cleared direct to TMA, contact tower when established on the approach."

By the way, did you know that the default GPS units also allow you to program these approaches?

SIDS / DEPARTURE PROCEDURES
Now, FS ATC does not allow you to select a DP like it allows you to choose a transition for an approach. If you want to fly a complicated SID, you'll have to put the different points in your flightlan. Do this by clicking "Edit" when in the Flightplan tool. This brings you to a map with a route drawn on it in red. You can draw this line to the required intersections/ navstations/... to recreate your SID.

You'll find that sometimes, not all the required intersections are available on the FS map tool, in that case, you'll have to find a point near enough. Or you could invest in a tool like FSBuild, which allows you to choose a SID and then recreates it accurately in your FS flightplan.

Unfortunately, there's one thing you cannot alter in your flightplan, and those are the altitude restrictions. I try to follow them as closely as possible anyway, and when ATC starts nagging to "please expedite your climb/descent to..." , I consider it as a clearance from ATC to override the published procedure and maintain a new altitude. It just tends to suck when that altitude forces you to fly into the side of a mountain.

Hope to have been of help,

Jef

[Bjoern]

EDIT: LOL why am I up at 220 AM posting on SOH. :isadizzy: :icon_lol: :pop4:

Why am I awake for over 30 hours now?

Life's big mysteries...



Anyways, if one wants to really SID and STAR his way around (I don't, because hacking that extra stuff into the FMS is too much work. :d), I strongly suggest Radar Contact 4. It makes ATC so much more realistic and adds better support for approaches and departures. It lacks in the callsign department though, so you will hear a lot of NATO over your headphones.

P.S: I'm modern. I'm using my laptop for displaying charts and checklists as well as in-flight entertainment. :d

[limjack]

I will try those tips jef. I know I used to follow atc instruction to a "T" and usally they brought me in with no issues (on there terms) . Other times they had me flying away from my destination airport for who knows how long and I felt like I was forgoten and said screw this, I am heading back.....lol. The sid and stars charts just really add to the flavor of flight sim and know I will be bumping heads with atc now. Hope they don't take my wings away and stick me in a sim jail house:icon_lol:.

Jim

[azflyboy]

One thing that's worth mentioning about approach charts is that FSX uses an extremely old database of approaches, navaids and airport configurations.

FSX uses a database from 2005, which means that it doesn't have any LPV approaches listed (which now outnumber ILS procedures and continue to grow), and there are also a bunch of LNAV GPS approaches that were created since 2005 that FSX doesn't know about.

SID's/STAR's normally don't change that much, but instrument approaches into smaller airports can be fairly interesting if you plan to fly an approach FSX can't support.

Also, that database leads to ATC assigning approaches to runways that were renumbered years ago, and it's also got a few approaches and naviads in service in-sim that have been gone for some time now in the real world.

[Bjoern]

SID's/STAR's normally don't change that much, but instrument approaches into smaller airports can be fairly interesting if you plan to fly an approach FSX can't support.

Especially in mountaneous areas like Innsbruck or Aspen. http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o183/t3h_3vil/Smileys/uff.gif

You'll need a custom AFX file with fixed approaches then, but they only exist for the more commonly used airports.


But as I said, Radar Contact really helps, since - as far as I know - it doesn't depend on SID/Star cycles and works with customized approaches. So you can fly after your charts while retaining full ATC coverage.

[TeaSea]

I had not considered a third party add on for the ATC....

Besides Radar Contact, what else is out there?

[Bjoern]

Besides Radar Contact, what else is out there?

VoxATC.