Johnson the Greatest? Johnson Compared to Martin

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I'll do a Panther here. Just post links. Any opinions?

-Ed-

Johnson the greatest?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=nascar_com-inside.line.dcaraviello.jjohnson-20091118&prov=nascar_com&type=lgns&start_row=1#comments

Johnson and Martin

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylt=AkVh7B7ihqMA_Fuuyuf3hErV9rgF?slug=nascar _com-inside.line.dcaraviello.mmartin.jjohnson-20091119&prov=nascar_com&type=lgns

[eddie]

You will never get a straight answer to question if JJ is the greatest, its all subjective.

[Panther_99FS]

You will never get a straight answer to question if JJ is the greatest, its all subjective.

Agreed.

That being said, it's still my personal belief that Gordon would have at least one more championship if Evernham had stayed...

And the reciprocal question what if Chad left Jimmie?

As far as Martin is concerned,
He'll probably get his place in history as the greatest driver to not win a cup....

[eddie]

You know what's kind of ironic about Jeff? When he first came on the scene, and started winning his championships, people felt the same as they do about JJ right now. Jeff was beating the "Old Guard", and fans didn't like it. It wasn't that they felt he was cheating, it came right down to being jealous of the way he was winning.

Same goes for JJ. One thing that everyone leaves out of the equation concerning Chad is, burnout. It hits every crewchief, whether they expect it or not. He might think he will be around for a long time, but so did a lot of other CC's, but it didn't work out that way. The grind will take its toll eventually. No one is immune from it.

As for Jeff and another championship, he's still got it in himself to do it, he just needs a better supporting cast.

I always liked Mark, sure wish he could have gotten at least one under his belt.

Trying to decide who is the greatest driver is like asking who is the greatest running back in football. I think it was Jimmy Brown, but the Walter Payton fans wouldn't agree with that,lol

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I agree much of it is subjective however you do have some guidance in performance and facts. However then you get to interpret those!

For example I think the greatest stock car driver ever was the Silver Fox - David Pearson. Three facts jump out - 1) He only tried to win the NASCAR championship 4 times and won it three of those times for a career Championship percentage of 75%. No other driver comes close to winning the championship 75% of the times he tried. Jimmy Johnson is the closest as if he wins the cup sunday his percentage will be 50% in 8 years. 2) In 1973 Pearson only entered 18 races and won 11 - 61.1% - record which still stands today - winning 61% of the races you enter in a single year. 3) Overall Pearson won 105 races in 574 tries - 18.1% win percentage. Don't know if it's the highest but in todays world that would mean winning 6.5 races every year for almost 16 years - who else can claim this kind of performance. Nobody will ever know how much Pearson could have won if he had chosen to run full time more than just the 4 years that he decided to try for the championship in a total of about 25 years of racing.

The second article simply shows the similarities between Martin and Johnson

Rick Hendricks take...



...Rick Hendrick might have thought as much, too, until the Hendrick Motorsports founder hired Martin to drive his No. 5 car prior to this season. Then, in a one-on-one meeting with his newest employee, he saw something in Martin's eyes that looked familiar. And it struck him—strip away the physical differences and the gap in championships, boil it down to the fundamental essence of work ethic and intensity, and Martin and Johnson could be mirror images of one another.

"I'd say that the thing that is almost identical with these two is the devotion to excellence, not only in what they need to do in the car with the race team, but the way they take care of themselves outside of the car as far as the way they train, the way they eat, and the way they think," Hendrick said Thursday. "They're as close to being identical as any two I've ever been around. They are both students of what it takes in the car and outside of the car. And their dedication to excellence, it's remarkable. Their talent speaks for itself. I think that's the reason that they're sitting where they are today. They just are never satisfied without everything around them being as perfect as it can be. They put all of the load on their shoulders."Martin's take...


...Those similarities are not always easy to see, given the clear and obvious differences between the two drivers, but look hard enough and they become evident. Johnson was his usual talkative and accommodating self on Thursday, when NASCAR held its opening event of championship weekend at a Coral Gables hotel. Put him in a firesuit and a pair of sunglasses, though, and he becomes the very picture of focus. Martin's eyes burn with intensity, inside the car or out. Both seem to carry the slightest of chips, Johnson a desire to prove to all doubters that he is in every way deserving of the titles he's won, Martin a belief that he must simply outwork peers he views as more talented.
But in his teammate, Martin may have met his match. "I think Jimmie may have one-upped me just a tad, and I haven't seen much of that in my time," Martin said. "He may have even more of that. A lot of the success I've had in my career came because I think I worked harder, and wasn't because I was better. I believe Jimmie works harder at it than I do, and I'm working about as hard as I can."-Ed-

[Cazzie]

And the Silver Fox is still the only driver in NASCAR to have a cigarette lighter installed on his car. :icon_lol: During cautions it was not uncommon to see him light up a smoke.

Caz

[Terry]

And the Silver Fox is still the only driver in NASCAR to have a cigarette lighter installed on his car. :icon_lol: During cautions it was not uncommon to see him light up a smoke.

Caz

Dick Trickle also had a smoke going most of the time. Never heard about the installed lighter until now, good for the Fox!

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I'll follow-up a little.

What makes a great driver?

In my opinion it is a driver who maximizes the combination of:

1) Intelligence
2) Desire to Win (Intensity)
3) Work Ethic
4) Talent

Of course you need a good car and you need a CC that also maximizes all 4.

From a driver perspective no one or two of these 4 alone will ever "git er done".

Too many people equate "greatness" with sheer talent. If sheer talent alone were the measure then drivers like Tim Richmond, Davey Allison, Robby Gordon (yes Robby Gordon), Kyle Busch and maybe even Denny Hamlin would be considered for the greatest. Kyle and Denny still have a shot Tim and Davey don't. My own opinion is Davey Allison was probably the greatest driver we never got to see fully develop.

So you can see I've seen several truly talented drivers that never became great drivers because they lacked too much in one or more of these 4 categories.

All of you can look around NASCAR today and evaluate individual drivers as to what they are lacking. In my opinion most of them have in varying degrees Intensity and Talent but many lack Intelligence and a Work Ethic.

The flip side is what driver maximizes all 4? In my opinion right now it is unquestionably Jimmie Johnson. He outworks Mark Martin and Martin says so. What other driver in NASCAR today works as hard as Mark Martin?

David Pearson was famous for his intelligent driving and he was talented and had a will to win. If he fell down at all it was on work ethic - he didn't want to work that hard and said so and still he in my opinion was the greatest. In my opinion Jimmie Johnson is today's David Pearson only he works his butoff and will until he decides to walk away and the first article clearly indicates this. In my opinion Johnson is well on his way to becoming the "best ever". Will he? Who knows?

-Ed-