Flightsim drout

[jetstreamsky]

Flightsim drout

I'm finally out of patience, I've beem struggling for more than two months on a new build PC that simply won't run FSX, I'm at a point where if I can't get it working I'll will just hang up my flightsimmimg spurs and be done.

I've worked with a few vendor site forums on specific components, but it has never been clear what the underlying causes are, so it's hard to make real progress. Originally absolutely everything was new, including the RC OS, so it's been very hard to know what is good and what isn't.

What I have is:

Intel i7 920 processor
Asus P6T Deluxe V2 motherboard
Asus Xonar D2X soundcard (added later)
12 GB OCZ Ram
Ultra X3 850W Power Supply
Ultra m998 Case
Thermaltake SpinQ Cooling Fan
EVGA GTX 275 Video Card (now 2 of them)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
Disk 1- WD 1TB Caviar Black Hard Drive
Disk 2 - Legacy drive from old PC (added later)
Disk 3 - WD 660GB Caviar Black Hard Drive (added even later)
LiteOn Blu-Ray Player DVD Writer

I'm also equipped with TripleHead2Go with three 19" screens working with TrackIR 4 , Saitek X52 and CH Rudder Pedals.

When I first put all this together, I was running the W7 64-Bit RC and I had to use a lot of Vista drivers as W7 versions didn't exist. I found that whenever I ran in 3D (i.e ran FSX, I even tried Rise of Flight) I would get after a couple of minutes either a BSOD or a hard and instant black screen with complete power shutdown which would either stay shutdown or reboot by itself after a moment or two. Occasionally I would see a brief dialogue concerning 'failed to read a file' (more on that later).

Over time I've updated drivers, BIOS and any other support code as it becomes available and recently went to full W7, none of which helped. I worked with OCZ on the memory settings, which helped a little, but didn't fix the big problems. I tested all the memory in several ways all with good results, I watched temperatures of CPU and GPU, all seem OK, the CPU in particular stays low, whereas I've ramped up the GPU fan to keep that down, just in case. I've used Speedfan and watched all the temps, no big issues there, I've used the ASUS application to watch & control the GPU, so I believe that's all under control. I tried the Asus forums, without any real clues there.

The system is rock steady in everything else, surfing, word processing, photo editing, listening to music, etc

Given the 3d failure nature of the problem, I've tried multiple driver versions including betas, I've dumbed down settings, etc. I read somewhere that the onboard sound could cause some of the issues, I decided to get the Asus sound card and shut down the onboard sound in the BIOS, that didn't help at all.

Finally last week, I decided to get another copy of the video card, if it worked I would then know the first card was bad, if not at least I would be set for a Sli set up later. Well at first the new card did seem to make a difference, gone the BSOD or power shutdown, instead I kept getting the message about failing to read a file. looking through the event viewer I found a new message about not finding a hard drive (my 3rd drive where FSX was now installed, I had it on my primary drive with the W7 RC). I ripped my case apart and reset all my cables, not finding any loose ones, but on reboot all was well, well until I ran FSX where again it said no drive and sure enough, it didn't appear in the explorer, not until I rebooted that is and there it was again.

I ran chkdisk against that drive, it came up all roses, no problem with it.

nonetheless I decided to unistall FSX from that drive and I placed it back on my primary drive with Windows on it, at least then it couldn't say it can't find the drive, not and keep windows running too. Well that worked tonight, I ran for about half an hour on a basic FSX install. Feeling good about it, I installed the patches and acceleration and fired it up again. All seemed goods still. I can't tell you how good that felt, but wait a minute, what the hell ........ Sudden power shutdown, three of them now.... argghhhhhhhh!

HELP ME PLEASE !!!!!!

Allan

[BladeLWS]

Have you checked to make sure your power supply is operating correctly. Sudden shutdowns and such during 3d programs (everythings running harder) could be that.

[Cerberus]

I was thinking the same thing. 3 HD's and 2 Graphics cards is a lot more than I have plugged into my 1000watt power supply.

I've got 1gig 3870x2 graphics Card, and 2 harddrives, and an external drive with its own power. I'm using the motherboard sound output.

The 1000W Powersupply I got is a Xion 1000w ATX that sales for $100 on ebay, probably not the best out there but it is working for me.

You might want to try unplugging some of the unneeded stuff that is draining your power supply and see if it helps any. If it does then you might want to upgrade your powersupply.

Also are your jumpers set up properly on each of your slave hard drives?

[Wombat_VC]

I concur with the rest. Best bet is power supply. 850W may sound a lot but most likely not enough for your setup, especially if you take separate voltage rail capacity into account. Easiest to check is to remove 1 of your 275's and observe.

By the way, my experience told me SLI is useless for FSX.

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Allan -
re:BSOD
Rock steady with minimal load
is no validation against FSX running at 100% CPU utilisation.

Inadequate power supply is probable,
but not the total wattage,
possibly the 12v rail demand.
EDIT -
I'd hope a 64A 12v rail would suffice (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6314/psu-322/Ultra_X3_850W_Modular_Power_Supply_ULT40312.html).

General info - Antec PSU calculator (http://www.antec.outervision.com/PSUEngine)



Otherwise,
What are your temperatures when running FSX ?
Also those for no apps/desktop only ?



re: Missing disk
Are all disks listed and identified correctly in -
a) Your BIOS ?
b) Management Console ?
What interface type(s) are each of the disks - IDE/SCSI/SATA ?
Are any jumpers appropriately set ?
Which OS was the old disk's PC running ?
Is ACPMI enabled to sleep your disks ?
If old disk is SATA, is it fully Link Power Management (LPM) compliant ?



HTH
ATB
Paul

[txnetcop]

Tiger Direct's Ultra X3 850 is a lousy power supply-not enough constant amperage at high load. You need to get a good single rail power supply with a high +12V rating for gaming.

This would be your minimum acceptable (a very good minimum):
Corsair 950 TX Series, 78Amp 80% plus Bronze efficiency rating $159.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139013
Ted


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[harleyman]

YUP..

Dump the PSU......It bites....Then dies...LOL sorry

What speed ram are you running?? And is that i7 Overclocked?

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Allan -
Forgot to say
BSOD or total crash aren't nescessarily caused by anything complex.

It can be as simple as a knackered mouse button.

Repeatable proven - :icon_lol:
Had this happen now with 4 laptop mini-mice.



Please note the BSOD message title,
e.g. Page fault in unpaged area



HTH
ATB
Paul

[txnetcop]

Hi Folks

Allan -
Forgot to say
BSOD or total crash aren't nescessarily caused by anything complex.

It can be as simple as a knackered mouse button.

Repeatable proven - :icon_lol:
Had this happen now with 4 laptop mini-mice.



Please note the BSOD message title,
e.g. Page fault in unpaged area



HTH
ATB
Paul

This is also true! Mine BSODs were by a bad download update.
Ted

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[jetstreamsky]

Hmm, Thanks for all the replies.

I'll start by saying that I haven't used two video cards together yet, just swapped one for the other.

Also, originally I only had one hard drive and no sound card, so I don't think I've necessarily overloaded my PSU, certainly I have no successful 3D gaming in this minimal equipment setup.

Now however with the growth to three drives and potentially two cards, that is something I need to resolve.

The Ultra X3 850W doesn't have separate power rails, they go to great lengths in their blurb saying why that's so, but I have tried alternate power outputs from it without any luck.

All three drives are SATA, the older one has no apparent issues so far and I've done a lot of photographic processing work on it, no problem.

Disks are not normally missing and are all present in the bios, this seems to be a new syndrome since getting the 2nd video card and only occurs after a few minutes simming and goes away one rebooted.

No clocking of GPU and minimal adjustments to the RAM under OCZ guidance which slightly improved reliability (as far as I can tell anyway) I'm not looking for speed as yet, just a successful session without crashing.

I don't know any way to check a power supply, but given the overall response here I'm willing to replace it and I'd rather get the right one than a cheap one.

Ted you identified a minimum one, what would you pick as the best modular one?

Thanks for all your help

It is most appreciated

Allan

[txnetcop]

Some terms to undertand:

The Power Efficiency of a power supply? But what does that mean?


First and foremost; the higher the better, efficiency is good.
When power is drawn from your wall socket and travels into your power supply, not all of it is transformed into electricity that your computer consumes. A rather large part of that current will get lost as there is heat that is dissipating in the capacitors or leakage in circuits and other insufficiencies. So it boils down to this: If your computer requires 500 watts of power, a power supply will draw more than that from your electric company. Here's an example:


If you have a generic power supply with an average 70% efficiency a 350 power draw (350/70x100) watt load would mean it is drawing 500 watts of current from your wall socket while your PC only uses 350 watts, interesting eh?
Let's do that math again , yet this time with a 80% power efficiency in mind: 350/80x100= 437 Watt. So that's saving 63 Watts over a 70% efficient product. If you have your PC powered on a lot , think about this theory and what it can save you in the long term.
Another example of a PSU that has 85% efficiency 350/85x100=412 Watt. We could save 88 Watts by just choosing a better power supply. The higher the efficiency the less power loss, the less money you have to pay. And hey ... it's good for mother nature as well. I find energy efficiency one of the most important developments in a PSU this and coming year, we'll monitor this closely.


Active PFC
To put it in simple terms, Active PFC PSUs are more expensive and, from a power consumption point of view, more efficient. Power Factor Correction (PFC) allows power distribution to operate at its highest efficiency. There are two types of PFC, Active PFC and Passive PFC. This PSU has Active PFC. Active PFC uses a circuit to correct power factor, Active PFC is able to generate a theoretical power factor of over 95%. Active Power Factor Correction also markedly diminishes total harmonics, automatically corrects for AC input voltage, and is capable of a full range of input voltage. Since Active PFC is the more complex method of Power Factor Correction, it is definitely more expensive to produce an Active PFC power supply.

The minimum one I recommended is fine or this one. These both tested under extreme conditions very well:

ABS is a solid PSU maker
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814010
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[mjrhealth]

The problem we have here is work. A lot of people sy, but my pc plays all these other games fine, then FSX crashes it. Well have you ever looked at your CPUactivity when you are flying, FSX streeses everyhthing, i am suprised that overclockers dont use it as a stress test for if anything s out of spec it will crash. But as most these guys are pointing out it does seem that you PSU cant hack it. Hope you solve the problem for fsx when it works is the best.

[crashaz]

Welcome jetstreamsky! You came to the right place to get your hardware problems fixed... lots of knowledge shared here and I knew they would answer to help you out.

Hope you get the fix.. we can't afford to lose any flight simmers.... we need everyone to keep the community strong! :wavey:

[CrisGer]

go back to XP :)

[txnetcop]

As someone suggested, go back and check for malware, a bad file, etc first, but I would still upgrade your power supply down the road.
Ted
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[jetstreamsky]

You guys have been really great helping me out here :ernae:

Well after reading the X3 specs with a little more knowledge, I can see why it won't do the job, compared to the other suggestions.

I like the look of the Corsair 950TX, the only thing holding me back is its non modular format as my case is designed around a modular PSU as it has a built in distribution bar.

I see Corsair make a modular PSU the HX1000W which according to their selector application will do the job, but this is something of a hybrid design with two independant rails each with its own transformer. It's also hybrid when it comes to modularity too.

On the other hand with so many devices to power now, I'm not sure if the modularity concept is still valid, yet placing all those long cables some where will rather cramp the case with its large side window showing it all.

My shopping choices are more constrained, being way up here in the soon to be frozen north too.

For sure. I'm changing the PSU, any thoughts about the Corsair HX1000W?

Cheers

Allan

[jetstreamsky]

Well I plumbed for the HX1000W from Corsair and apart from not supplying one type of power feed (Fortunately I had it from the X3 unit), it went together easily and the hybrid cabling works well, having fixed cables for the minimum equipment and modular cables for everything else you want to connect; and best of all

FSX WORKS!

Cheers guys, this has been a real head ache, I should asked for help earlier

:ernae:

Allan

[peter12213]

well this is my new one, tomorrow hopefully (hopefully being the word)! I will get it though not tomorrow thinking about it lol!
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0499377184.125877206 4@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccgadeilkieedicflgceggdhhmdfhj.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=604242&category_oid=-28485

Mines a new one tho lol just that was the only pic I could find lol!

[crashaz]

Nice to hear!!:applause:

[peter12213]

Yeah hopefully, if those guys take my card otherwise its not coming home with me, gotta go up tomorrow, I'm not hopefull though pretty sure the girlfriend will say no too lol! Anyway heres to hoping!

[CBris]

A good 850W PSU shouldn't be crippled by that, surely? I run an 850 watt PSU from Chieftec.

2 DVD drives
3 Hard drives
6 cooler fans
nVidia 8800 GTS 512
separate temperature monitor
added network card
added USB card
Soundblaster card
Graphics tablet
Webcam....

...and it doesn't even sweat. There's a second power output on the PSU for both first and second graphics cards (according to the blurb it'll run an SLI system). I don't have dual graphics cards or Matrox triple head yet, simply because two large monitors do the trick (one 24" HD 1900 x 1080 and one 19" 1280 x 1080)

A sales techy guy once told me it isn't always the watts that count, it's the amps. Some PSUs actually don't have enough amps spare. And TXnetcop's explanation makes sense somehow

Don't ask me - I am not into black magic. I am a mechanic :D All I know is that I can fly, skype, teamspeak and paint models at the same time and the temparatures are all in limits.

[jetstreamsky]

Hi Chris,

That's exactly what I was expecting, but it turns out my Ultra X3 850W isn't a 'good power supply', not for my set up anyway.

As you say, it's the available amps that made the difference and I think the nVidia GTX-275 is probably the most power hungry component that simply pushed my system over the edge

Their blurb also claims it's good for gaming in SLi and seemed to be fit for purpose, but in fact it only puts out 55A-60A on the 12v rail and this combination just doesn't work. Interestingly I checked out the user reviews for it when researching for my replacement power supply and there was a poster with almost identical set up to me stating he had the exact same problems

Anyway, my first build has been a learning experience and I'm a lot more knowledgeable about my PC now, so upgrading and building another should be a breeze.

Allan